I WANT MY VIDEO GAME BACK...

sounds mental

you've at no point ever played WoW, have you?

They're not losing shit as long as overwatch exist. The only people subbed to wow now are those farming gold by selling runs so they can buy tokens and use those to for blizzard space bucks to buy shit in overwatch.

I am not sure if to envy you for having low standards.

you're wrong.

In what ways has modern WoW degraded from old-WoW? I played casually back when Burning Crusade was new, and the only major difference I see gameplay wise today is the babbification of talent points.

>tfw never got back to 2015 Nostalrius level

mass-casualization

I haven't touched the game since 2008 or so but I remember seeing a video of a guy soloing a dungeon at level with no special buffs or gear or anything. It seems like they reduced health totals on everything by over half.

It's dead. It's best to move on to something that isn't cancer.

i reluctantly played with my normalfag friends.
I've done heroic raiding etc. Boring and ez af. I usually play for a month when a new xpac comes out, finish all content then go back to whatever my MMO of choice at the time is. Classically this has been either… UO, RO or L2. Better games that came before WoW.

WoW was always casual from the get go. WoW babies have never played an MMO before WoW so they think it's good. Just like all the Blizzcucks that have Overwatch as their first FPS and think its the best ever.

Became less social, easier to play, ganking became less fun since people could just fly around. The grind became less rewarding and got boring late game as the expansions went on.

WoW was also kinda like a chatting program like skype or steam before they were actually a thing. You would meet and make actual friends which now in this day and age has become harder due to the lacking amount of social activity in videogames. With its Esports, party finding, team set up garbage and match making. While this is not exactly related to the gameplay itself, its an important experience people should go through as they grow up.

Which is one of the reason people have fond memories of the older games.

Also the lore got shittier with each expansion which botherd me as a warcraft fan.

>mfw finally a game for grrl gamers and it's a roaring success mostly

well there's your problem

Completely agree, Overwatch is todays version of WoW. Shiny turd on a silver platter that only casuals like.

I've noticed this. Most groups me and my friends end up with to run a dungeon are completely silent. There was one time in particular where my friend tanked, and didn't know where the fuck to lead the group, so we sort of joked around in chat about being retarded while wandering around. We eventually cleared it, and one of the guys who wasn't in our group chirped in, said he was an old WoW vet and thanked us for reminding him of old days where people actually talked and enjoyed the game instead of robotically marathoning every dungeon as quickly as possible.

does OW have a Naxx40 equivalent though?

No one would deny that WoW is casual.
when it came to older MMORPGs they were harder to understand, the UI and navigation of it could be overwhelming and not to mention WoW was made by blizzard, which was popluar as fuck with their released games like starcraft, warcraft, diablo and others.

WoW was incredibly cheap for its time compared to other MMORPGS when it came to paying monthly which is one of the biggest reasons for people to switch onto that.

Despite how it was easier it still played like a MMORPG and still offered a lot of content for what it was at its base game. If you were to playing diablo 2 and see a game like WoW exist for the first time your mind would have been blown away from how many players you could see around you working and talking with everyone.

theres also a good chance that WoW is mostly Babbys first MMORPG.

aw man..

If the original devs had stuck around and kept updating, and we had gotten Utopia, I bet you that GW would really have eventually surpassed WoW in numbers. Especially with how low said numbers are now.

Yeh being social in games was fun.
I cant think of many games that are nice to be social with folks, theres too many foreign people talking shit and yelling at you for not being pixel perfect in some videogames.

Playing with Holla Forums on nostalrius as a rogue and just pick pocketing everything and out jewing the other rogues was fun which was something I havent experienced in years.

even if it did potentially cause a wipe and made a lot of holocaust jokes.

On the social note:

I've never seen an online community that seemed to have as much fun during in-game festivals and the like as the GW did. Lions Arch, Kamadan, Shing Jea - those places really were hotspots for activity on the days of festivals. I remember the excitement involved in trying to jump between districts to try to grab both masks at each festival, and the almost unspoken organization involved in trying to game the systems to make sure the Dwaynas and Grenths stuck to evens and odds or whatever. People running around with speed boosts, setting off fireworks and crap.

Every MMO should be structured in that format - party up, take NPCs if you can't find anyone. Imagine putting NPCs using the same AI as DD Pawns in place of Henchmen for a hitbox-type MMO. Give the game the huge tactical melees of Guild Wars instead of the "lel lets beat up this 1 guy" bullshit of other MMOs.

If only…

What happens when the group/world/server chat becomes reddit tier? It's a double edged sword, either you take the silence or you subject yourself to normalfags in the hope that you find a sane person in a sea of cancer that is the modern MMO community.

it had Junkenstein and Uprising mode as temporary events, just like Naxx was :^)

MMO makers have all decided that they did not have to make a good game. They had to make an addicting game. So they no longer tried to make a game for MMO players. Instead, they had to control every single thing that happened to you in game as much as possible. Sure, its an open world and you can go anywhere, but the average player should start his day by logging in, do stuff that gives him some loot or level or whatever reward they chose so that they have that nice accomplishment feeling. And they should do that day in, day out.
Somewhere along that line, MMO devs took out as much as possible from the one thing they did not control. Other players. Of course you have an MMO so you need a bit of it, but as little as possible.

Some of this came from game devs looking at the game and optimizing the non fun stuff, but at some point, some non game developer said that they should log and analyze everything that happened and pick those things people enjoyed the most (accomplishing something) and make sure every single player out there gets a reasonable dose of it. Other players were too random so they tried to phase that out. One person or group accomplishing something huge was not as good as a hundred people accomplishing something small. Redistribute it. Lore be damned.

This is why you have multiple tiers of the same dungeon nowadays. Everybody has to be able to do all content. This is why rewards barely depend on other players anymore at the bottom tier of things.

Only indie MMOs or MMOs with a very specific audience (and not one where the devs say you are their audience but so is everybody else) stray away from this path of boring blandness nowadays.

make the game difficult and filled with lolis and this will never happen.

GW is a lot of fun. Sadly its still pretty expensive for such an old game, otherwise I would buy copies to play with my brothers or friends.

it randomly goes on sale on steam for close to nothing.

Where the hell are you L2 Classic anons in game? I had no idea we had an Lineage community here on Holla Forums.

Speaking of reeeeeeeeeeeing for the days of old, anybody got the most up to date version of pic related? The most recent version I can find is 2015 and it's been jay-pegged to hell and back.

Blizzard your marketing is only getting more sad and transparent. Its over. This is the sunset time for you.

You can sink the vessel named Blizzard but the rats will only scurry away. They're in bed with Hollywood and it's going to take more than the free market to get rid of them.

wow thats crazy!

Sometimes I miss the comfy questing, so I tried one of those private servers, but they're all pvp and filled with the typical pvp shitheads (actually worse than back in the days), so it's only comfy till a certain level. It'll never be the same I guess.

...

Akmost like fucking clockwork.

simply epip

I want my video game back

;_;

kill yourself

Fuuka's hair is green.

Dungeons were dumbed-down to the point where a group of retards could complete them with relative ease. Combine that with heirlooms, which make characters jacked for their level, and old dungeons become pretty easy solos.

LFD, aside from the obvious fucking it did with server communities, basically made piss-easy dungeons inevitable.

As an aside, part of the reason the game because so much less social is because game mechanics were altered to reduce overall downtime. In most cases, a player can basically chain-pull mobs and stay alive without having to pause to eat or drink. Thus, giving less time to socialize without fucking up optimal progression rates.

I DIDN"T NEED TO CRY TODAY.

i know everyone says wow was always a shit mmo but i can't think of a better 3D mmo (talking about vanilla/TBC, other versions are irrelevant). everything with potential gets cucked by p2w on release and the old games are just outdated and feel even worse.

i dont know where else to ask this:
i want to do a little RMT in an MMO, specifically, to sell my shit in game to get a couple extra bucks because im a useless piece of shit, is paypal safe for this or should i stick to selling for bitcoins?

i have zero trust in the paypal jew, but bitcoins have gone far too high this year, making it hard to sell smaller amounts of in game currency for fractions of BTC.

MMO thread? Does this sound like a fun game idea guys?

You can play with a friend (or a few friends) and you go into a tavern at night for gossip of the town. You have some ale and get some NPC's to chat with you at the table. One suggests a rumor of monsters populating a nearby abandoned resource gathering area (say mines/forestwhatever). Another says he could use a hand tilling his farm, or harvesting. One would like to show you around town. All of this would be voiced ofcourse.

Why are there no games like this? Every mmo is some dumb text, to a static npc who stands all day. Why can't I play a game like Gothic (regarding npc's, quests) with another friend? This in my mind is the pinnacle.

This is the most updated I have. Don't know if anyone made one with 2016 and 2017.

thanks

Those fucking hands

mirin dem arms

This woman appears to be made of ham.

sitting at around 2 million subs according to most estimations.

It lost most of its fairweather fans and people who played it when WoW was "it" basically whats left is the core userbase.

The weird thing is, how many people say if WoW died, they'd get all their friends to play * MMO or **** MMO with them. Funny thing is, it always seem to be a different game.

If WoW was was turned off, some would switch to different gamed, and their populations would rise slightly, but I think about half would just not play MMO's anymore.

WoW was a casual shitfest since inception.
You don't get to 5 million players without dumbing the game down for retards.

the patch was released 2 days ago.

The sole reason for this is shitty carebear/SJW moderation. Chats become normalfag/reddit tier because anyone who doesn't police themselves gets banned for "muh feels".

Log into any major MMO right now and call someone a retarded nigger, and you'll quickly find out how right I am. The kind of trash that pollutes these games aren't able to handle banter and would fuck right off if it wasn't for said shitty moderation.

EverQuest had 500,000 subs at its peak. By MMO standards, it was the casual.

They were already fucking up by the end though. The faggots couldn't understand the concept of PvE/PvP splits EVEN THOUGH THE GAME ALREADY HAD SEPARATED PVP AND PVE VERSIONS OF SKILLS. They ruined Rangers and Elementalists to the point that they were functionally worthless in PvE because

And Nightfall's Heroes ruined the community. It used to be that you were either REALLY GOOD and could manage to get through the game with the default henchmen, or you partied up with real humans and got shit done with them. Every single mission had people in it asking for help or looking for groups. Then Heroes came out and made all human players obsolete in the face of cold efficient unbeatable terminator machines that could do everything a human could do but better. Nobody did jack SHIT with other players after Heroes because they could just sit back and let their party of CPUs faceroll the entire game.

Has any MMO apart from WoW during the glory days done things consistently "right"?

They all seem to shoot themselves in the foot and then impale themselves after falling.

...

You can never go back. You can recreate the software but not the people and the culture.

Is that why you posted a pic of a game that pretty much single handedly brought an entire genre to a halt?

UO sucked ass

runescape is where it was at, and they've fallen ill to tumblritis.

It depends on how long of a timeframe you're talking about. WoW really only made consistently correct decisions through Vanilla. The casualization and dumbing-down already reached enormous levels at TBC launch.

I would say during their eras, SWG, Lineage 2, Age of Conan (for a limited time), and Guild Wars all had good streaks of good content releases and design.

How can a person be so, so very wrong in so few words.

Kill yourself. Runescape was the casual MMO for babby that everyone used to make fun of.

Is that really so bad compared to the paradigm that preceded WOW? Waiting hours to join a party only to then go camp in one spot killing the same mobs over and over while waiting a lengthy timer before the mob repoped.

WoW was anything but consistently good in vanilla. The servers barely worked, Molten Bore was nerfed weekly, tier 2 loot was removed and re-used in their new raid rather than make new loot, they kept screwing with player raids on capitals until they eventually killed that whole dynamic, class balance was beyond awful - warlocks were free kills, raiding rogues could one-shot from stealth, raiding tanks could tank an army of other players, dishonorable kills and the night-sweat terror people had of getting them, banning entire guilds for minor LoS exploits while ignoring the growing problem of Chinese botters, etc..

L2 got "oldschool" servers too?

Anchor arms

Does she eat her spinach or what?

I'm surprised it isn't f2p yet. Is it even still the MMO with the most subscriptions?

Where's the fun in an online game if you can't even talk shit? That right there is why I stick to single player these days.

Sure, it had issues and growing pains (like every other great MMO during the golden age), but a lot of those qualms you listed were difficulties of their time. Shitty servers having to deal with massive player-load, DKs really only affected mass PvP in city hubs, and class balance was only a real issue in 1v1s, when PvP in WoW was primarily group-based (and better) at that time.
All the content got progressively better as it was released through Vanilla, imo.

Yeah, there's an EU server with a sizeable NA playerbase. It has a monthly fee, but it's like 2 dollars for the first month, so you could try it and see if you're still/were ever fond of a gookshit grindfest. It has a lot of positive QoL changes that make it less of a full-time job, as well, which is nice. I'll stop shilling it now, but if you want to try it out just Jewgle "Lineage 2 Classic Europe". You'll need a browser VPN like Hola to set your location to an EU country to login, but after the client launched you can just close it.

It was just too good for this world, anons.

Just fucking play on Elysium. It's a shit game anyways, and you only want to play it so you have something to sink massive amounts of time into.

Tarren Mill vs Southshore turned into a nightmare as the mushroom vendor getting lured into a group could wipe out weeks of progress for hundreds of players. The honor system was a disaster and severely crippled world PvP before it was killed forever by battlegrounds.
How I know you didn't play at release.

The TM point is fair enough, I guess.
I did, but that's sort of irrelevant to user's original point of an upward trajectory of good design execution and decisions. Class balance was improved pretty consistently from launch all the way to 1.12.1, which fits what he was saying. It was never perfect, or even great, but every class was valuable by the time T1 was out.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

And here I am wishing your cancer game never existed and ruined MMORPGs.

I'm here for you bruv

thanks but i'll pass, i get really bad ping on european servers because im a huehue

too bad…i dont play local L2 servers because i can't stand the latino playerbase myself.

Ah, yeah, I could see that ping being a bitch. Funnily enough, the leveling clan I'm in (I just started about 2 weeks ago) has an active clan war with a Brazilian clan, which is pretty rare for exp clans to conduct at like level 40. I'm contributing to the huelocaust for you, Fernandinho.

kill them all

PRIVATE SERVERS WHEN

I wasn't part of the UO Crowd, but I was on an MMO called Helbreath back in my early days. I couldn't join WoW because I couldn't make money to make an account, and now that I look back, it was probably for the best.

If I had to pick between UO or DAoC as the best MMO, I wouldn't be able to choose. It's a shame both died with shit expansions.
DAoC though… fuck man, I miss those days. I was the number two hunter on Merlin for a while. The class was gimped so badly, but it just meant I had to play harder and better to beat other players. It took quite some time to save up gold for 100qual SC'd armor and weapons, but it was well worth it.

I played that too, it was Aresden vs something else right?
Game was kinda suspicious, it had stars of David and golems.

So you joined after it went to shit.

What about dishonored kills? Along with Battlegrounds, they killed world pvp.

If you're so bad that you can only compete in pvp if the other guy literally can't hit you, you should not be doing pvp.

It's obvious you never played, as that Dishonorable Kills had nothing to do with killing lowbies. Dishonorable kills penalized you if someone in your raid killed an NPC. Meaning that if you're gonna raid a Capital city, all it takes is one retard to fuck it up for everyone.

Go be a retard somewhere else.

No. It was also lowbies. You know that gravitational aversion you get every time you see an enemy player whose level is grey? Dishonorable kills did that to you.

It was a korean MMO I think made sometime around after UO? It was Aresden vs. Elvine. Also, the seal of solomon might be mistaken as star or david.

No, you're just fucking retarded. Only NPCs gave DKs. I got up to Knight-Captain and would have been higher but I'd take one for the team and kill the mushroom vendor.

before activision attacked the game had a not balanced but fun combat/pvp

There was grinds but it was skill to a extent as well and there was guilds socializing love and hate.

I do not understand with the amount of shekles blizzard raked in why the company decided just to sell out for More shekels.

did they need a rape basement to be 120000 square feet instead of 80000 feet?

I'll think about buying blizzard products again when the team in charge of writing and lore issue an official apology for the entire storyline post-TFT and a formal press statement that daelin did not, in fact, do anything wrong. Or when they stop being so goddamn jewish.

Anyway, vanilla WoW is good but limited, and you can see that it was probably doomed to become the monstrosity it is now from the get-go. Too much focus on instanced raid tier progression over leveling and the world "adventuring economy" as I call it, and no way to fix it after launch without wiping characters, so of course every expansion went full steam ahead in that direction.

did you play other MMOs?
City of Heroes and GWs shat all over WoW back in those days.

That is some strong delusion right here, both of these games were nothing but sideshow freaks at that time. Odd anomalies that did have one or two interesting concepts, but were uninteresting to the MMORPG community, because outside those concepts they were grindy and shallow.
Also while WoW was the one game that ruined MMORPGs, Guild War actually managed to have a more cancerous community thanks to all the normalfags flooding the game.

Read up on the massive changes they made starting in Cataclysm. Massive pruning of "boring" skills and abilities and the loss of the talent trees as you knew them.

City of Heroes didn't shit on anything back in the day. It did corner the market on superhero MMOs for a while until DCUO came out and the Paragon split from Cryptic happened.

Not my OC, but I had it saved and thought you'd enjoy it.

aaagukgukgukgukguk

For the most part, most people never got to the point at 60 where they realized barely anything was finished. Blizz didn't expect people to be at 60 and forming raid groups so quickly I think.

Hell, I remember walking into Southshore and there were almost no quests, then I was 1 shot by someones spawned quest mob. Scared the shit outta me.

so how would you fix vanilla WoW so theres more stuff to do other than PvP and raiding and making alts and grinding rep and getting gold for consumables and an epic mount and maxing your professions after you hit lvl 60?

...

That's how Blizzard conducts business. They time their major patches and releases to hinder their competitor's major patches and releases. For example, they'll probably time their D3 Necromancer release to coincide with the Path of Exile open beta. They did an Overwatch open beta to screw over the release of some other game recently (Battleborn?).

They've been following this business model for a decade. Get on with the times.

So you started playing post Ulduar. Which means you never had the chance of enjoying the good WoW raids. That pretty much invalidates your opinion.

Yes, it is. WoW during vanilla and TBC had a model where not everything was created to cater to casuals. Which is what made those times fun and which is what allowed WoW to become so popular. If today's version of WoW had been released on November 24 2007, the game would've been the biggest flop in video game history.

Anyone going to respond? Are we past grinding yet in mmo's? Can we just have a game based on minimal stat progression, and focus on the things that matter like how to immerse yourself in a geographic location and build gameplay bottom-up from a narrative, rumors from npc's or DM's that invisibly guide the world along? Or even resource gathering for the sake of the collective, not yourself (which is what every game already is about, greed progression - stats & armor), like commanding npc's or players to make a farm, or begin gathering logs, etc? I can't be the only one who wants this. Someone make it already.

We aren't going to ever have another real MMORPG because people today are too fucking retarded and want instant gratification instead of working for it.
They also lack the creativity to properly RP anymore to immerse themselves in the game. All people want is to be statqueens with giant glowing swords and hats. Long gone are the days of UO style RP of the thief, the adventurer, or the blacksmith. Now it's a bunch of faggots yelling about how you don't have enough points to roll on some pants that glow at night.

Just google something like "Lineage 2 servers" and try finding servers that are in brazil. These private servers might not be true to original but they are fun enough to play in,

There were MMO's that had that, like The Matrix Online, or SWG, or to a lesser extent, the secret world.

THey either died trying to adapt to make themselves more like WoW/EQ2, or they died

i'd rather not.

It's a double edged sword though. Do you cater to people like us that want that experience to immerse ourselves in the world and become part of it, or do you make your game so casual WoWfags with raid points, arena based pvp, etc.?

If you cater to the RP people it's a minority and your game will fail.
If you cater to the WoWfags they'll bitch it's a WoW copy and leave and the RP people will leave because the WoWfags made the community shitty.

As someone who's been there for all of it, the current generation actually likes grinding and has little imagination or creativity. They would be completely lost without the RPG removed from MMORPG.

allright heres some ideas that I've got to improve WoW from its vanilla state:

and the important parts:

>the Eastern and Western Plaguelands are by default not contested territories, but Scourge territories; expect to see the Scourge fighting the Horde at the Bulwark in Tirisfal Gladesalso note that Moria Bronzebeard is pregnant with Emperor Dagran Thaurissan's child, and that Onyxia secretly resides in Stormwind City, but only sometimes
(cont.)

>there are quests that can only be done if your faction has control of a territory that they didn't start out with when the server was brand new; some of these quests may have very enticing rewards, but most of them won't

anyone got the "hello, neighbor!" screencap? it's a classic.

however I'm not so sure what to do in the event that the Alliance somehow takes control of all of the Horde territory or vice versa
any ideas?

You're an idiot, never try to design games. Please.

motherfucker, DCUO never had shit on CoH. CoH did things that regularly show up in other mmos to date and are trumpeted as brand new features. its holy trinity had exactly one build out of all the 'healers' that was focused on healing. you could choose what difficulty you wanted to run missions at, and rewards were scaled to it. You could make missions for other people and they could run them for XP. etc, etc, etc.

FF11 kinda did the last part you described there but it was delegated to mostly pointless bonuses and dumb little 12-man skirmishes. That game had a lot of neat ideas that were mostly butchered in execution.

i miss Comfinity.

Mithrabutts is a faggot.

Pfft, why would you want some scruffy old used up pics when you could have fresh?

eh, we're getting there. Some good RP-lite MMOs are coming around, even with whatever grind elements they have, mostly because game world progression basically forces you to converse and deal with other people to get anything done. Mind you, there's only very few of those coming out and they might not even be good, so there's the downside.

such as?

well then tell me this:
how did city of heroes and city of villans keep the players entertained at max level?
how did ultima online keep the players entertained at max level?
how did everquest keep the players entertained at max level?
how did FFXI and FFXIV keep the players entertained at max level?
do all of those games even have max levels?
I speak as someone who doesn't recall playing an MMO other than WoW before

True, Face of Mankind was like that. And it was extremely niche and most people couldn't handle it.

I'm literally shocked that there is no high end MMO that combines Procedural created dungeons, ala roguelikes with a persistent world lobby thats a city. Except, y'know AAA quality.

The closest things that have come to it so far have been The Division DLC that did it in a very very bare and weak way. Plus it was the Division. But you could see the potential there.

Galad, imanewbie, WTFman, and b0n3d00d & platedewd are better.

The community that would be paired with such a game is gone. Today you'd need to make a streamerbait game with voice chat and aim for cheap ex dees as that's as much attention span as people have.

Clearly you just forgot the best, yes?

tried both, couldn't get into either and none of the games felt any better/deeper than wow. i mean, they didn't have any really fun mechanics that would completely differentiate them from wow. in fact, they had even less. gw1 had arenas before wow did (wasn't interested in those myself since i loathed arenas since the beginning) but if i remember correctly (do correct me if i'm wrong here) they didn't even have proper world pvp, just some pvp zones or something like that. also, why were you unable to jump in gw1? i distinctly remember that bugging me to no end. like i said, i merely tried it so i'm not sure how accurate my memories are but i know it felt like a lesser game compared to wow. tried city of heroes as well but for an even shorter time so i can't recall much about it all i know is it didn't impress.

Peria Chronicles, Albion Online (the shitty in-dev MMO that's being pulled out of people's asses as it goes along yet somehow manages to function well), The Repopulation if it ever comes out of development hell and becomes good magically, and then finally Crowfall being pulled at some point in the future, with the possibility of it not being shit.

If the community for that is gone, then there wouldn't be any demand for the game like this. And considering I'm still here, waiting for that fucking game, I'm sure there are others.

peria is anime garbage published by nexon, have you learned nothing of nexon in these last 15 years?

and albion looks like a weird warcraft 3 + eve online combination, particularly, i don't fancy it, but i can see that being a lot of people's thing.

I just can't imagine getting 200k people together that could at least lightly roleplay to some degree. Even the XxSLiMsHAdYxX guys in UO could squeeze out a little in-character thought and that's what we're missing today. It doesn't even occur to most people anymore. What you'd end up with is a very small community that are all very hard RP types, and that's actually what happened to ARC (the Atlantic Roleplay Community) - they're still on NWN to this day. It's not the same dynamic. I could never stand hard RP.

Stopping people from playing with their friends is the best method to kill a MMO.

Instead of fixing the problems associated with guards, you just let them ignore game mechanics. AKA it's a band-aid solution.

Those are not improvements, they're flavour. Poorly thought out without adding much to the game, AKA waste of development time.

Another band-aid fix that doesn't even try to fix the underlying issues with the vanilla BGs.

The whole point of World of Warcraft is that the world is getting fucked over by bad guys because the Alliance and the Horde keep fighting each other when it's blatantly stupid to keep doing so. Changing this would mean changing the core philosophy of the game and you'd need to change the name of the game to World of Cooperationcraft.

The core game design doesn't allow that. Taking over zones would be incredibly disruptive to new players and players trying to level up. Not only that, combat is not designed to facilitate large scale PvP; simply looking at the clusterfuck that SSvsTM was confirms this.

Disincentivizes world PvP.

That kind of shit either turns into a chore for players or isn't important enough to warrant bothering with. AKA it's never fun and players will get bored of that shit super quick.

Due to the game's systems, the time investment spent into taking over territories and "gaining very enticing rewards but not always" won't be worth it while leveling. It'll basically turn into Silithus sand carrying: something nobody gives a shit about because it's not worth it.

Encourages collusion. Awful idea.

Your ideas make you look like an aspiring mod maker who just throws whatever ideas he has out without thinking about how these ideas will change the game, how players will approach the changes or if the changes will even be fun or worth the time/effort spent implementing them.

there'd have to be a sort of objective to it first, I guess, for it to come back. Or maybe it'd come back by itself if people made the effort to bring it back, I'm not sure. Everyone associates RP with those fucking rulecuck autists, and that's why it gets a bad name even here on Holla Forums.

You guys want your game back?
You people don't know the meaning of pain.
You don't know how much I WANTED this game to be a thing!
SANDBOX MMORPG WITH GLOBAL PVP AKIN TO ULTIMA ONLINE WITH EVEN MORE SHIT TO DO

But user,
it won't be a thing
our dreams are lies

Fun beta
Grind totally killed it once there weren't character wipes all the time
Similar to Mortal
Honestly Rust/PUB/DayZ have more promise for this type of thing. They'll make "8000 player Rust 3 on a massive persistent map" and we'll have it again.

Some of those fixes would be fine if you chose to drastically change the game. Remove leveling, make gear VERY easy to get (but perhaps have it break permanently or drop on death so you need to replenish the gear somewhat often), and so on. Basically make WoW into a sandbox MMO rather than a themepark MMO.
But then you removed everything that serves to make people addicted and waste time in ways that don't require many developer resources.
And maybe most importantly, you have to retrain the people to not need a list of what to do but instead just have fun with the tools they have.

I do know the meaning of pain my friend.
Hell, I know what it feels like to see your awesome friend die, get resurrected, die again, then resurrected one more time but now altered so heavily that it ruins most of the good memories you had.

You have no idea how much this game was my thing. Twice. And then they fucked over so horribly.

im not even a mod-maker
i just threw the ideas out there without really thinking that much about their consequences
i had a hard time of thinking something original, but i will say you have good points and I see why my ideas are bad

First fuckup original revamp, second fuckup administering away all fun by banning the rebel government leadership?

That still hurts

Those were the minor fuckups, the major one was making Fall of the Dominion.

The original revamp was kind of fine to me. Made the game look somewhat more modern, which probably helped it draw at least somewhat of an audience.
The way they GMed and whatever were pretty big fuckups.

Sadly, all of it is quite easy to explain. This game likely never made enough money to even cover its costs. So they couldn't hire actual GMs that don't also play the game and thus will fuck up. Same for why they made Fall of the Dominion really, an attempt to introduce some mechanics they could get money from.

Yep, I am certainly not the only one that still wants this game to be made. I wish the old FoM Emu code was available, or the packet captures of that version. or whatever else.

I'm still mad about this one. I know it's a meme to say, but it really did have potential. EA murdered Westwood causing it to pop out of development prematurely but even though the latter third of the game was completely missing (there was literally no content for the last 50 levels or end-game, it was tricky just figuring out a way to reach max level), people still fell in love with what was there. There aren't many games that grab people so hard that the community builds a server emulator for them and this was one of them.

WOW
ALWAYS
SUCKED
You know it to be true

I thought from the thumbnail that someone had photoshopped raw chicken drumsticks where her hands were supposed to be…

Trips confirm. Couldn't stand it Vanilla, couldn't stand it TBC, couldn't stand it WotLK. FFXI was my jam though.

the FAT community
is just her. she is the fat community.

I'm pretty sure she killed a man, took his forearms, then implanted them under her skin.

...

...

WoW was never good.

Why don't people talk about everquest or everquest 2?

Fags already get lost if a game doesn't have a quest compass and clear indicators what to do.
UO without generic MMO quests would be a mystery to them.

oh shit i remember that game.
i played it only for some time and my memories are blurry about it.
though i remember doing something in the game and was forced to go to the in-game jail.
Then -kek, all the prisoners tried to break out of the jail. gonna check out what happend to the game now.

Its dead, jim.
Not just, nobody plays it dead, actual dead.
And unlikely to have another resurrection anytime soon. With the exception of some community project that is trying, but its slow going and I am not yet convinced they can make the quality needed.

at that point the losing faction would be dissolved, and there would be methods and ways for rebellions; liberation of a capital, players can customize the new nation in their image as a reward. both factions have different methods of achieving this, and depending on how it is done you could have dynamic races where the racial faction could change; nagas could help the alliance for some reason and become playable, etc. this could be a result of players forming dynamic alliances with other factions hostile to the horde.
if said factions are conquered already, then those factions will have rebellions anyway, whos to say the losing faction's rebelling won't be affected and won't effect the other rebellions too? whos to say they won't congregate?

i wonder how many times you can reset your IP and samefag

WoW was never good.

the only real option is to have enough content (preferably raids with quest chain attunements) that is so much work that nobody will be able to finish it all by the time the next expansion hits

I wonder how fast you can run back to cuckchan with that dated "samefag" damage control.

Why do people play mmorpgs? I don't get it.

It was revolutionary for the year it was released.

bait harder

nigger you never played WoW and judging from your ID hoping its you who is from cuckchan

Social thing.

There are much better social games though. If it's about the roleplaying just play a tabletop rpg or something.

There are much better social games though. If it's about the roleplaying just play a tabletop rpg or something.

I like to play in massive, breathing worlds the likes of which haven't existed for about a decade since I like watching people.

l m a o

You monster, you even included the music.

bait harder

Making a revolution on how shitty games can be isn't a good thing.

Good luck enforcing this. There is no magical tool that can detect VPNs or proxies.

Everquest 2 was kinda costly for monthly subscriptions

Sorry I said you were from cuckchan, you're clearly some gaiafaggot or worse.

Bro I'm clearly you, but IP hopping. Let's go to our IP hopping subreddit r/wowsucks and re-converge on whatever voip program those faggots use these days.

says the nigger who spams "WOW WAS NEVER GOOD"

I'm playing a 15 iksar shadowknight and having a blast so far. I never played EQ, so this is a fresh experience for me.

The combat, while simple, functions as part of a more complex whole. You have to rest after almost every kill and watch for wandering hostiles, because running away is impossible unless you can survive a run to the zone line, teleport to your bind spot, or can feign death as a shadowknight or monk. There is a huge risk of dying to monsters even 1 level higher than you, and God forbid one aggros on you while you're fighting another monster. The penalty for death is high: you lose a percentage of your experience (which can be restored by a cleric rez, but expect to pay out the nose for one to come to your exact corpse location) and all your items stay on your corpse, which disappears after seven IRL days. You have to run back naked with no food, water, equipment, or money, which makes it suck if you die far away and/or in a dangerous spot. Despite the simplicity of meleeing and casting, every class feels extremely distinct in what it can provide versus other classes. Though the graphics are very simple, I feel that the zones are more atmospheric and less "contrived" than in modern MMOs. Outdoor spaces feel like outdoor spaces, where you worry about dying to a lion that's behind a hill or encountering a bandit who will assmurder you. Indoor dungeons (not instanced!) make you fear what's around the corner, and when I was in Befallen (an undead fortress) I was afraid of dying behind a locked door, since nobody would have a key if my group wiped. In short, you fear death because of its penalties and can reasonably die almost anywhere. This creates a level of tension unmatched by modern games that baby you when you die, and tension is fun.

Even though the game throws problems at you, they can all be solved through social interaction, which is the point of an MMO. There is a general culture of helping low-level players by giving them a few plat, gear, and teleports/rezes, although it does not spoil the playing experience (outside of a few twink items worth a fortune, no gear will let a lowbie take on mobs of a significantly higher level). I even had the same Wizard port me for free twice when I died in North Karana and was bound in East Commonlands. The economy is entirely player driven: people basically sell everything at the East Commonlands tunnel, and lowbies can make their starting plat by actually farming the drops of local mobs (willowisps, orcs, bears, spiders, and skeletons). There is a guild called Dial a Port that functions as a teleporting service that will come to you if you are willing to pay. In the groups that I have been in, people do actually talk, about the game itself and other matters.

In short, at least give it a try. Don't fall for the themepark=bad meme or that "EQ raiding is bad" image (I heard it really is bad, but there is a lot of other fun stuff in the game, and I don't think that it should prevent you from trying it).

I'd like to talk about how vanilla had the seed of a cool levelling experience, since the fights rewarded fighting better. You had to be careful about pulling more than one target, but it was possible to recover from disaster. Autoattacking definitely didn't cut it.

Balls.

Warmane is better. 1x WoTLK is comfy.

...

Loving every single laugh. PvE is for retards in every single game.

I play on the 1x server, Lordaeron. You can't buy any armor or weapons in the donation shop, just bags and pets. I've had almost no problems with bugs. You can only buy aesthetic changes. No gear, no levels.

Thanks for the response. I agree, the times (Modernity) we live in do not incentivize developer creativity, ambition, risk taking to make a game that can last throughout time. I fill this void in me by playing my old greed games like OSRS.

Yea, I've been through the ages, certain instances too. My childhood was shaped by an mmoRPG that was similar to UO, made by a guy who was close with Lord British - who helped him make Ultima 5/6. The mmorpg was Dransik (Dransik Classic / Ashen Empires) (which had graphics of Ultima 5) Back in 2002-2005 the game's playerbase was very heavily RP-like. There were Holy guilds, and evil guilds. I still have a memory of a holy guildie typing to our guild member (we were holy-aligned allianced with that guild) and they were using old english "hath" etc. Anyway the developer Lothgar would hop on sometimes and everyone would gather around. He'd have some cool things to say and ofcourse he had a narrative going on in this game like Ultima's games. He would have everyone meet at Lothgar's Castle (a town, he would reside as King, no developers intertwine themselves to create this kind of D&D DM'ing). The game's story would point that Talazar is some ancient evil living guy (used to be a Holy warrior, corrupted by Rune armor over time) who had Rune armor and a mythical sword. So to story craft obviously, Lothgar (or someone else) would log in as Talazar very very rarely, and go on a crazy killing spree killing the most popular town's guards and PK'ing everyone in sight. If you killed Talazar he'd drop the Sword of Talazar which was a unique drop which could 2 hit any player. These pics were from 2 or so years ago but that's what it looked like back then.

wow skill

I tried that for a little bit after UO destroyed itself, probably around 2001 or so. Was a strange beast and the client was all cobbled together like Toady had built it. Here's what it looked like if you intentionally tripped his anti-debugging stuff.

This here post shows if a game's direction is bad. You don't know what you really want from games until you have tasted it yourself. Greed-based games are bad design implicitly. Its just another capitalist deathgrip world like life. A game should not be focused on a player's greed, this is a terrible virtue. It is a circle, the company has greed making the themepark WoW 2.0 killer game, and you have greed of progressing your character. What is the true point of playing a game with other people? What were its true intentions from the beginning? Is it a linear quest spam text themepark linear map progression/armor set progression/dungeon drop progression? Why do these things satisfy players? Have they thought why their instinct is satiated by these repetitive tasks - and repetitive game updates (new tier max armor, new tier max level, new dungeon)? Does the immensely weak social aspect from these games help make the game fun?

I want to be immersed in a game akin to what it felt like in D&D real life sessions. I value that experience more than these short highs from fps games / frivilous themepark mmo games. I cherish that more, because it was so vivid. Its like I am reliving something that is lost today, a tribalistic surrealism. You experience the story (and hopefuly with other players) and you etch out your own story. There are fewer themepark rails in this journey, the story is happening before you, and through you, unlike "kill X mob" quests or Repeat dungeon for .02% droprate.

Back to point, mmo's in the old days kept people around in other ways than today's greed mixed with forced social organization to achieve that primal lust. Some games kept people playing because of politic aspects: you were allowed (in a korean grind mmo) to rule over your Realm for a week if the populace voted for you to lead. There would be battles over claim of resource areas (realm vs realm vs realm) which would boost a realm's economy (yes, they had currency) and thus your Credit would be worth more (more buying power per item).

The Role playing aspect would keep people playing. Who would be able to keep these few guilds together in an alliance against these other 4 evil guilds? How could we back each other up when killing monsters away from town in non safe zones, avoiding KOS kill on sight guilds from spotting you - which would make a miserable blood bath which could go either way for loot gain/loss.

You would be pushed into joining a cause greater than your base desires if you play these old kinds of games. Today for my experience in 'popular' mmo's today -OSRS, vanilla wow, etc there is only one main driving force that we as a collective play: individual greed. It goes back to tapping into the wrong base desires, the pachinko machine high. Rare drops, grinding to feel unique, guilds to equip you, and waiting for the next update to repeat. There is no surreal primal memories here. I'm talking about what the majority of our ancestors enjoyed, having a tribe and experiencing narrative, story crafting, telling a rumor you've heard or an event you've experienced to others.

Haha, when the client thought you were speed hacking, a message would pop up and say something like "Holy batman balls!"

>>>Holla Forums

No. Most people are pleasure lemmings seeking their next dopamine hit.

Then go on MeetUp.com and meet people in meatspace.

Reading the rest of your post it sounds like your longing for impactful life experiences which you should be getting from real life user. Gimme my glittery armor drops and rain gear as a reward from hard work (which is what MMO's are really rewarding, not greed).

No. You are missing the point. If you want to play a game, which is a hobby, ideally it would be an intriguing game that feeds that intuitive side of man. I don't understand how you think I am bringing world politic into a post about vidya, I detest commies. Communism is another way of saying international capitalism, which is a driving point my post was about - going against our greedy desires because there are better virtues we can wholesomely indulge in (in a philosophical standpoint). If you think me punching capitalism was a virtue signal towards the "diametrically" polar opposite, communism, you assumed wrongly. I am neither for modernity's international capitalism, or international communism (which is the same thing in the end.)

And no, I don't want to interact with people, roleplaying in real life? This hobby has interesting potential for creativity and a uniqueness that is an extension of our selves, which could not be done in the world with other pozzed people.

Also I can assume you are some libertarian cuck, seeing that you scoffed reading the word "collective" and some other words like "tribe". Look at yourself and thank the line of hundreds that came before you to put you where you are. And I still see your glittery armor as greed, while you do not. It might be hard work, but the enveloping reason you were motivated was by greed, which has little to do with what mmorpg's were designed for. profit

were originally designed for*.

I hope you try to sit on a chair and accidentally scrape your balls off.

My favorite thing about the original EQ that I don't see in nearly any game anymore is that there are actually multiple types of skeletons rather than just one generic model. Really irked me in WoW that every skeleton had massive claws and was actually 6 inches or so taller than a human.

God damn, that shit was a slap in the face. Fuck "cockjumper" and fuck the kikes running EQ2. I still laugh when I hear news of them floundering on their Everquest minecraft clone. Firiona was good good for them.

The theory that EQ and EQ2 were sabotaged by Blizzard insiders really sounds more and more plausible by the day.

You mean Tingole? Fuck that faggot.
Bonus points, the guy who made FFXI saw the remains of EQ and tried to base a MMO on that framework. That's why you see retarded bosses like Absolute Virtue in FFXI where mouth breathers forget that it's a puzzle boss and try to tank and spank it for 16 hours before giving up. I hate what the average MMO community has become.

his guild leader also just so happened to be the lead designer for Warcraft 3. what a coincidence.

Compare the Olympics now now a days with vid related. Fucking kikes.

You forgot that they fake their population numbers.

I wonder if anyone called him out on that shit? I remember when this story started circulating around my server post plane of time. There are plenty of people who want to beat the shit out of him. It's a shame though since I'm sure most of those people that bitched about it either gave up on video games all together or are dead from old age.

The kikes have ruined a lot of shit for a lot of people in various nations. Truly they are everything wrong with humanity. Spics and niggers are one thing but kikes are the antithesis to humanity.

Funny that leftists who are now completely controlled by the Jews shill Marx despite that being his understanding of the Jews.

I played Star Wars Galaxies and DaoC before WoW.

WoW was great because Blizzard 1998-2004 was a company you could trust.