The most important effort in Marxist thought should be removing any trace of the counter-revolutionary saboteur Leon...

The most important effort in Marxist thought should be removing any trace of the counter-revolutionary saboteur Leon Trotsky.

Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/history/etol/document/vietnam/pirani/hochiminh.htm
spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-40693632.html
mlwerke.de/th/1931/th311121.htm
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Trotsky has never yet held a firm opinion on any important question of Marxism. He always contrives to worm his way into the cracks of any given difference of opinion, and desert one side for the other. At the present moment he is in the company of the Bundists and the liquidators. And these gentlemen do not stand on ceremony where the Party is concerned.

(Lenin, Collected Works, Vol. 20 p. 448, 1914).

Letter from Ho Chi Minh to the Indochinese Communist Party

Kwelin, May 10, 1939

Dear comrades: In the past, in my opinion and that of a good number of comrades, Trotskyism has seemed a matter of struggle between the trends within the Chinese Communist Party. So they almost were not paying attention. But shortly before the outbreak of the war, more precisely since the end of 1936, and especially during the war, the criminal Trotskyist propaganda has opened our eyes. Then we started to study the problem. And our study has led us to the following conclusions:

1 – The problem of Trotskyism is not a struggle between the trends within the Chinese Communist Party. Because between Communists and Trotskyists there is no tie, absolutely no tie. It is a matter that concerns the whole people: the fight against the country.

2 – The fascist Japanese and foreign fascists know. So, looking to try to create disagreements, to mislead public opinion and undermine the popularity of the Communists, making people believe they are communists and Trotskyists in the same field.

3 – The Chinese Trotskyists (like the Trotskyists in other countries) do not represent a group, much less a political party. They are nothing more then a criminal gang, the hounds of Japanese fascism (and of international fascism).

4 – In all countries, the Trotskyists gave good nicknames to mask their dirty work of bandits. For example, in Spain, their names are Workers’ Party of Marxist Unification (POUM). Did you know that it is they who are the nests of spies in Madrid, Barcelona and elsewhere in the service of Franco? It is they who organized the famous “fifth column,” agency of the army intelligence of the fascist Italians and Germans. In Japan, they are called Marx-Engels-Lenin League (MEL). The Japanese Trotskyists attract young people to their league, then reported them to the police. They seek to penetrate the Japanese Communist Party in order to destroy it from within. In my opinion, the French Trotskyists, now organized around the Proletarian Revolution Group (1) set a goal to sabotage the Popular Front. On this subject, I think you are better informed than I am. In our country of China [referring to Indochina, N. E.], Trotskyists are grouped into formations like La Lutte, War against the Japanese, Culture and Red Flag.

5 – The Trotskyists are not only enemies of communism, but also enemies of democracy and progress. They are the most infamous traitors and spies. Maybe you have read the indictments of the processes in the Soviet Union against the Trotskyists. If you have not read them, I advise you to do so and to read them to your friends. It is a very useful reading. It will help them see the true disgusting face of Trotskyism and Trotskyists. Here, allow me to extract some passages relating directly to China. The true repugnant face of Trotskyism.

Before the court, the Trotskyist Rakovsky (2) confessed that in 1934 when he was in Tokyo (as representative of the Soviet Red Cross) a high character of the Japanese government had told him: “We have the right to expect from the Trotskyists a change in strategy. I will not go into details. I only wanted to say that we expect from the Trotskyists, actions that favor our intervention in the affairs of China.” Responding to the Japanese, Rakovsky said: “I will write to Trotsky about this.” In December 1935, Trotsky sent to his supporters in China, instructions that repeatedly emphasized that phrase: “Do not create obstacles to the Japanese invasion of China.” And how have Trotskyists in China acted? They are in a hurry to know, is it not true? But, beloved comrades, I can not respond more in my next letter. Do not you recommend me to write short letters? Hope to see you soon.

Stop bullying him

Of course. Better pretend the following 10 years never happened.

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”Our clandestine radio transmitter from eastern Prussia to Russia is creating an enormous sensation. It operates in Trotsky’s name, and is causing Stalin plenty of trouble”

”Now we work with three clandestine radio stations in Russia: first Trotskyist, the second separatist, third Russian-nationalists, all criticise Stalinism. They are an example of cunning and subtlety.”

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If he was so loved why did everyone just roll over and let Stalin get rid of him?

The obliging Trotsky is more dangerous than an enemy! Trotsky could produce no proof except ‘private conversations’ (i.e., simply gossip, on which Trotsky always subsists), classifying the ‘Polish Marxists’ in general as supporters of every article by Rosa Luxemburg…

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Trotsky has never yet held a firm opinion on any important question of Marxism. He always contrives to worm his way into the cracks of any given difference of opinion, and desert one side for the other. At the present moment he is in the company of the Bundists and the liquidators. And thee gentlemen do not stand on ceremony where the Party is concerned.

(The Right of Nations to Self-Determination, Collected Works, Vol. 20 p. 447-8).

He was a terrible leader, he had a lot of merits as a man but an arrogant prick like him can never last in a position of leadership. Which is why he had nowhere near as much party support as joe

It is an adventure in the ideological sense. Trotsky groups all the enemies of Marxism, he unites Potresov and Maximov, who detest the ‘Lenin-Plekhanov’ bloc, as they like to call it. TROTSKY UNITES ALL THOSE TO WHOM IDEOLOGICAL DECAY IS DEAR; ALL WHO ARE NOT CONCERNED WITH THE DEFENCE OF MARXISM, all philistines who do not understand the reasons for the struggle and who do not wish to learn, think and discover the ideological roots of the divergence of views. At this time of confusion, disintegration, and wavering it is easy for Trotsky to become the ‘hero of the hour’ and gather all the shabby elements around himself. The more openly this attempt is made, the more spectacular will be the defeat.

(Letter to the Russian Collegium of the Central Committee of the RSDLP, Collected Works, Vol. 17, pp. 17-22 – December 1910)

It is impossible to argue with Trotsky on the merits of the issue, because Trotsky holds no views whatever. We can and should argue with confirmed liquidators and otzovists, but it is no use arguing with a man whose game is to hide the errors of both these trends; in his case the thing to do is to expose him as a diplomat of the smallest calibre.

(Trotsky’s Diplomacy and a Certain Party Platform, Collected Works, Vol. 17 pp. 360362).

“I believe we should do things honestly, for without an honest attitude it is absolutely impossible to accomplish anything in this world. Which are the honest people? Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin are honest, men of science are honest. Which are the dishonest people? Trotsky, Bukharin, Chen Tu-hsiu and Chang Kuo-tao are extremely dishonest…”

“My duty as a Marxist-Leninist Communist is to expose the hidden reaction that lies hidden behind revisionism, opportunism and Trotskyism.

We consider that the Trotskyist party acts against the Revolution.

I believe that the key issues on which it was based, Trotsky made mistakes, and I think that his behavior was wrong and rear, in recent times, even obscure.

I believe that the Trotskyists have not contributed anything to the revolutionary movement, in any country, and where they did more have failed because the methods were wrong. ”

Ernesto Che Guevara. Speech at the Ministry of Industry, November 5, 1964.

Trots btfo

But then we would have to get rid of all of Ernest Mandel's great work, and in that case you can fuck right off.

delet this

wow just look at the fucking dates I'm completely astonished.
Trotsky really was a piece of shit.
Is it true that Lenin wanted to leave the free territory of Ukraine Alone?

They will never recover from this.

why do they even show up in here?

it's like they are actually Holla Forums infiltrators like no kidding.

Found another

Last letter is too long, so here's a link to all three that have been posted: marxists.org/history/etol/document/vietnam/pirani/hochiminh.htm

Literally everywhere where Trotsky and Stalin disagreed, history vindicated Trotsky. Now I mean the whole edifice for both of them is built on Leninism so both useless but Trotsky is somewhat less useless than Stalin.

Proofs? Stalin and Trotsky were more or less in agreement on the bigger issues. Most trots just claim that their guy wouldn't have been quite as bad as Stalin allegedly was.

Thereafter, Trotskyists began the industrial sabotage of the USSR. Also,


In short, go fuck yourself

Just to clarify on the industrial sabotage:

Starting to see why the ice pick was necessary.

He also used a creepy/weird all leather uniform.

The most important effort in Marxist though should be to stop being Marxists :^)

Oh I didn't mean that they didn't mostly agree. And yeah he probably would have been basically as bad as stalin (though he wouldn't have had any need to purge the military because it was already his base of support.) But on the few places where they DID disagree we haven't seen what would've happened under trotsky but stalin's ideas were all failures. ESPECIALLY socialism in one country.

I see…I see…thank you Stalin you have truly enlightened us all.

My god it looks like he's wearing a gimp suit

Don't worry, comrade Ramon Mercader dealt with the completely unprincipled wrecker saboteur personally.

But was the ice pick really appropriate? I mean why not just use a gun?

Why is it that so many "mainstream" socialist groups have heavy proportions of Trots in their ranks?

What's the appeal? Is it some sort of mainstream appeal because Trotsky was anti-Stalin?

Stealth, obviously

This thread singlehandedly killed the trot presence on Holla Forums

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Each day we are drawn closer to the light

Why are Trots so retarded?

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orwell shaking his head.jpeg

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Foreign-policy I think Trotsky always had the right answers, from China to Fascism. But this one is a bit unfair.

How is that unfair? It's literally what happened.

Nigger are you fucking blind?

Read the Ho chi min thread again!
They collaborated with fascist pretty much around the world.

Right, all those cartoonish accusations of Trots being crypto-fascists for some unspecified reason.

I screen capped most of this thread.

I really dont know why images aren't saved, when you do this, but I added them, this was really illustrative.

is this bait?

Wew

Icepick.jpeg

Collaboration with fascists isn't bad if you are using them to take down fake socialism. Thanks to the USSR now the only thing anyone thinks about when they hear the term "socialism" or "communism" is famines and political fucking repression. If more leftists had helped them destroy the USSR things might have ended up much differently.

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triggered

So you agree with me that collaborating with the Trumpists to take down fake leftism is not a priori a bad idea?

The problem with Trumpism is that it is anti-internationalism, which is bad. So if Trump wasn't so anti-Russia and anti-EU I would probably have supported him.

Neoliberal internationalism is poison to socialist internationalism and has basically nothing in common. Are trots mad their long con slick entryist 80 year transitional program has been decimated?

Shit. I meant pro-Russia. Also how exactly does neoliberalism harm socialist internationalism? By bring all economies together and it brings us closer to global communism. Once America is the unchallenged hegemonic power the contradictions of capitalism will allow us to seize it and thus achieve a global revolution in a single generation.

If we go back to a multi polar world everything goes back to step one.

It won't.

Marxist theory says that it will.

Your interpretation of it. Which happens to be vastly anachronistic and wooden, despite some predictive success in the 20th. Wake up, multipolarity is a fact already.

Bump

Even Trots aren't this dumb

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History lesson for anarkiddy dumbfucks:

"We did not resist, we did not throw hurdles into the way of the victorious political opponent", wrote the author. "The old ones (in the SPD leadership) are concerned about their fame. Like old, ridiculous actors or singers, they never notice when the curtain has fallen." "We were, and stayed the genuine parliamentarians, that is, we talked about things, but they did, they mastered them. While concentration camps were already being built and many of our followers were shot dead we had a fierce struggle for seats."
[…]
When the Not Socialists in 1932 entered on a ford with the Zentrum and thus won a majority in the Reichstag, Hoegner and his comrades considered it merely an "enjoyable game". It is true that the Social Democrats sensed that "a black and brown government was in the air," but they had no other idea than to "annoy our Zentrum colleagues with the song of the black-brown girl."
[…]
On March 23, 1933, the SPD alone voted against the Enforcement Act, which gave the Hitler government an almost unlimited power of authority. And when the SPD chairman, Otto Wels, had explained the reasons why his party had to refuse to approve this law, Hitler once again hurried to the podium, kicked off the SPD, and concluded, "You, gentlemen, are no longer needed I do not want you to vote for the Enabling Act, but Germany should be free, but not through you." Hoegner: "That clapped and clicked like whips on our heads, it fell like a fierce fire."

Nevertheless, at the Reichstag meeting of May 17, 1933, the SPD, together with the Not Socialists, voted in favor of the program proclaimed by Hitler to remove the restrictions imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles ("equality of Germany"), which caused astonishment.
[…]
The last Reichstag meeting, to which Social Democrats were admitted, was "even more agonizing for many of us than our presence at the meeting of 23 March 1933. At that time we had expected to lose our lives in the worst case, but this time Some of us felt that we were losing our honor. "
But when Hitler began his speech, the comrades experienced a surprise. The new chancellor avoided any attack on the SPD, even for the Nazi opponent Hoegner sounded the speech "extremely moderately": "A more gentle peace speech could not be held by Stresemann." When Göring called for the vote, the members of the SPD parliamentary group rose and voted in favor of the Reichstag declaration.
Hoegner described this as follows: "Thereupon an agitator of the other deputies broke loose, and even our most implacable adversary, Adolf Hitler, seemed to be moved for a moment, and he rose and clapped us applause, but the President of the Reichstag, Goering, stood up and spoke magnificently: "The German people are always united when their destiny is. Then the German national deputies began to sing the German song. Most of our ranks were singing. Some ran tears down their cheeks. It was as if Social Democrats, who were always cursed as the lost sons of the fatherland, had for a moment immortalized the common mother of Germany. "
spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-40693632.html

This is the true face of social democrats.

The KPD did all the work of organizing the workers against fascism because the SPD had proven again and again that it was not interested in any actions with the communists against the reactionaries, in contrary they used the reactionaries to murder communist leaders and workers protesting on the streets.

While preparing Hindenburg and later on Hitler and even going as far as to vote in favor of Hitlers "Equality for Germany" proposals that broke with the treaty of Versailles - enabling him to reup the military and getting applauded for it by Hitler.

Forge the Red Unity Front
by Thälmann
mlwerke.de/th/1931/th311121.htm

Being competent and not being an incredibly abrasive arrogant cunt are two separate things.

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If he was such a mastermind, how comes that his proposals didn't resonate in the SU?
How comes he wasn't prepared against Stalin and got BTFO like a little bitch?
How comes they didn't organize around the social democrats they love to suck the dick off so much that they could create a front against fascism either?

Why is it that these utterly insignificant losers are so deluded to believe they're in the position to advice or correct those that were actually successful and the only ones to achieve socialism, defeat fascism, spread the revolution over the globe whereever the situation was favorable…?

because nothing in spain portraying you as a fucking idiot with what you just said had ever happened

Also forgot to mention it was the SPD outlawing the Roter Frontkämpferbund while never even attempting so with the SA.

which explains why he's still popular amongst the most useless faggots around here

/thread

The one statement that is iffy is the one by Bukharin (torture confession). The others are pretty damning. I already knew about Guevara's position regarding Trotsky and Stalin (he brought flowers to Stalin's grave against everybody's advice). This one by Ho Chi Minh was new to me.

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Fuck off

Its so tiny and fringe its ridiculous, just get a bunce of nationalists to follow up and pretend its relevant.

I agree with this. Why do you we still have personality cults around Marxist from the 30's? Isn't what Trotskyist may have done in the name of Trotsky irrelevant to salvageable aspects of Trotsky's theory? Why should we disregard the excellent analysis of say, a Mandel because he was a Trotskyist? Often people take a "genetic X" approach to leftist politics. This is where with Holla Forums, your ethnicity colors every aspect of your theory, unrelated political inclinations (usually admiration, or condemnation of some historical character) color every aspect of your theory. It's a waste of time. The Marx/Proudhon debate is a useless waste of time (even more useless than the Bakunin/Marx one because Proudhon and Marx both lifted the basics of their theory from the Ricardian socialist), as is all the other contentious, Cold War relics of leftism.

I agree with your sentiment wholly, but Trotsky specifically was a shitposter his whole life. It seems possible judging by the trail of diarrhea he left behind that he may have been a bad actor and not incompetent.

bump for the socdem softies