So how did Id Tech fade into obscurity when it was the most popular engine next to Unreal by the most popular PC...

So how did Id Tech fade into obscurity when it was the most popular engine next to Unreal by the most popular PC company of its time? Why doesn't Bethesda license Id Tech 5 and 6 like Epic?

bethesda wants to keep it in house, and keep in mind idtech was only popular for one generation and unreal was popular at the same time along with renderware.

The engines have terrible tools. The fault largely rests with Carmack. He only realised things like OOP were useful very late in the game. Even during the development of Rage he was coming out with ridiculous "revelations" about programming that even literal teenage boys figure out within the first few years of learning to code. Id engines were only originally used by other developers because there wasn't anything else and because Romeo went out and did an incredible job of selling licenses. Back in those days Carmack seemed to care about mods but it didn't take long for him to fall into complete programmer autism, eventually ending up with id tech 5, a stunningly awful and impractical engine. What I mean by programmer autism is the idea of a project being a one-man endeavour with no real concern for the real world, deadlines, gameplay, system requirements, etc. That just isn't possible with more complex games.

Carmack had an extremely positive influence over the gameplay of Doom and without him it would have been another shitty story focused ideas guy borefest (like Daikatana was later). The change between Carmack of that era and Rage is incredible. I doubt he even played Rage, a "game" where you can't even pick up weapons that enemies drop.

It's funny because the Unreal engine started off as a complete joke but it a classic tortoise and hare situation ended up wiping the floor with id Tech in terms of practical use. No one had the power to make Carmack look again at the basic facts and figures of his disastrous megatexture project. The only reason why nudoom looks decent is because someone else was finally able to take charge of it. It's a similar situation to how no one could prevent Carmack from blowing all his money on building shitty rockets.

I would recommend reading Masters of Doom because that tells a lot of the story in terms of the personalities of everyone involved. You will see how close Quake 1 was to being absolute garbage (they wanted to make it a melee game) and the absolute bullshit that followed (no single player for Quake 3 for example).

XD

careful with that irony, user

I would even argue that the id tech engines are complete trash to the serious engine only because it can actually render multiple enemies on screen

id tech is a little overated, I mean doom and quake are fucking awesome. But no one ever mentions Looking Glass Studio. I think the problem with Carmack is fame got to him a little, it bloated his ego up and eventually just got bored/cocky and started not caring. He has A LOT of other things he is interested in besides programming. Also, he sold him self to the big noses. So RIP.

But user, nuDoom uses megatextures too. You would know this if you looked at any videos or presentations the devs made about id Tech 6.

From what I've heard, the iD engines were terrible to work with for anyone that wasn't Carmack. Sort of sounds like Wozniak when he did the Breakout prototype for Atari, they were paying designers to do less than 75 chips, and each chip dropped was 50 bucks for them, something like that. Woz dropped it to something like 25 chips, but because no one else knew how it worked, they couldn't use it.

The rendering part of the Doom and Quake engines were not overrated for the time when they were developed and released. However almost everything else in the engines was terrible. The code is awful from a design and architecture point of view. While QuakeC was a good idea the actual implementation was garbage. Again, teenage boys were and are making better interpreted languages. However I am grateful he did it because it's what got me into programming (making Quake 1 mods).

Non-programmers don't understand just how bad Carmack is at software engineering. That basically means constructing programs in such a way that other programmers can change and extend it, which is basically the root cause of this

Did he have time for any of that in the early days? Probably not, and clearly both Doom and Quake turned out to be excellent games. But I argue that his failure to directly compete with Unreal and others on that level was basically the biggest mistake of his life.

I think it turned them all into egotistical monsters. Again, Masters of Doom really shows that.


I never said any different.

idTech engines 1, 2, and 3 were commonly used in the industry for games. A handful used itTech 4 but it had some noticeable issues and devs either moved on to others like Unreal, made their own from scratch, or kept altering idTech 3 until it was no longer recognizable as such (Call of Duty franchise is a good example of this).

How do you get the autism necessary to not become insanely bored from coding within 2 minutes, and is it possible to make decent moolah coding without a degree?

Programmers make good money, and if you have an awesome portfolio you could get a job without a degree yeah.

que

...

It means if you made a bunch of programs exceeding a bar of quality usually depending on what field of technology you want to go into you fucking dunderhead.

wha

Maybe programming isn't for you, maybe you must do some soulsearching.

fucking Cancer

Carmack is a weirdo through and through, I mean shit if it wqasn't for my knowledge of Doom trivia then I would have never known the Baron was drawn by Carmack.

Bethesda are stupid.
They don't know how to make ladders, their team is mentally retarded.

Carmack was a great programmer for his time.
If you look at anything he's done recently, the dude is clearly past his prime.

>you will never feel a Barron's muscular, powerful thighs slamming against your rear

gaylord

Exactly. at the time, a difficult to use engine that could render at high FPS on a P90 or something was a big deal. Later on, it was far more important to be able to figure out how to use and extend an engine even if it wasn't quite as efficient.

if you find coding boring you will never be good enough to make a living at it unless you have sufficient willpower that you'd already be an investment banker or a doctor something, so don't bother.

You are correct.
I 100% own up to it.

The engine was never designed to run anything other than an FPS, so there's a reason it didn't work well for anything else.

It's a smart move by Carmack, because it means he will be continued to be employed each and everytime they want to do a game with that engine.

Or people will just say "Fuck this" and go for an engine that requires less autism.

Wasn't the baron sketched by Adrian Carmack, not John?

It's interesting reading about programmer autism because from a lot of perspectives making something in an individualized way which resists easy duplication makes you an artist, not an autist… I think they might be the same thing seen from different perspectives

Megatexture would be a success had it been tuned for PC instead of console.
The main reason it sucks so bad is because it was rebuilt late in development to accommodate low memory consoles.
Not to mention the pitiful amount of system memory.

Anything designed around consoles is shit.
Even old games.

...

Spoken like a true non-programmer, faggot, developer. Fuck your lame template driven "my beautiful mind-code". You're worse than a brogrammer.

The only reason consumer-grade GPUs exist is because some Finish programmers wrote highly specialized assembler for early family computers like the C64, Amiga, and PC (286, 386, and 486 mostly). Quite a few of the late 1980s through mid 1990s demoscene programmers went on to design GPUs and 3D APIs professionally.

Any of the actually genius code is never meant to be maintainable. It's written either for a specific system or a specific set of hardware constraints.

*Finnish

It sucks because it's too much work to make use of it

Isn't CoD still running on a (very) heavily modified version of Id Tech?

Almost all FPS today are run on a modified version of Quake, in one way or another.

The engine that runs Quake is called Id Tech, technically it's Id Tech 1.5 since 2 is Quake 2 but if you really wanna go there then the entire industry is running off of Commander Keen 1.

But does anyone give a shit about Id Tech after 3, CoD and Valve using a heavily modified engine doesn't mean it's the Id Tech family anymore and means that the engines have become completely new things minus some old lines of code from the foundation, if I have to really spell this out for you.

But Source has nothing to do with GoldSrc.

Making an engine from scratch is more time consuming then taking an existing engine and heavily modifying it. Id Tech 4 was too early, it's a good engine but few devs choose to use it.

It depends entirely on what is modified and what exactly "heavily modified means", I can tell you right now that all the core stuff that causes bunnyhopping was still there until CoD 4 and I suspect this was when it truly stopped being Id Tech, and those elements are in Source as the rule with attempts to remove it being a hotfix because you'd need to overhaul everything from the 3D renderer to the physics of the engine to truly get rid of it.

I'm pretty sure source was heavily based on goldsrc

huh

If it wasn't for your mental retardation you know that Adrian Carmack isn't John Carmack.

Yes. Adrian is the artist. John is the programmer.

John is autism.

not sure either but id Tech 6 is pretty good,
its main dev is former CryEngine lead R&D guy

That fox won't look so smug when she has 10 gallons of cum shoved in her.

Nigger, you don't know shit about Doom trivia if you think John and Adrian are one and the same and can't even credit the proper artist

That's not a fox, that's Ran/fox or, as I've recently taken to calling it, Ran + fox.