So, I have this game laying in my collection unopened...

So, I have this game laying in my collection unopened. I bought it because it seemed like a good game that was getting unfairly panned by critics. What are your opinions on it?

Take some time to get used to the dual screen screen play (similar to how you had the play the world ends with you) and it's good. Not as good as 64, but good.

What's neat is that there are hidden little things similar to the first game, like the first boss can be entered for a secret boss fight, or can just be killed like normal.

It's a fun game. It'd be better if you weren't forced to use the gimmicky control scheme though.

Zoness, which can only be avoided in one path, is absolutely terrible. Any time i try to play SFZ I quit after zoness because the level causes me to lose interest.

Gyrowing sections in general are all pretty boring and kill the pacing of the game.

The walker's controls are strange and I could never get used to it, tilting the movement(?) stick too far to the left or right would cause you to barrel roll. The arwing sections are fine though.

The controls were the worst; Even when I got good, I still needed to keep looking at both screens and it's goofy as shit. I wish Miyamoto would have allowed you to pick your own personalized control scheme instead of forcing you into a single one.
The game itself though, is good, if a little empty at times.

Play the game yourself and form your own opinion.

hello rato

hello rato

hello rato

MISSHAWN. COMPREE.

It's just a disappointing game. It really could have been so much more, but a lot of it feels like Star Fox 64 HD.


Hello Rato,

It's okay. Doesn't hold a candle to 64 or the SNES games.

It IS a Star Fox 64 HD because Miyamoto is a talentless hack who can't make his own games so he has to ruin everyone else's when they outshine him. He killed Paper Mario and he put the final nail in the Star Fox coffin. He added the walker and gyrowing because they were going to be a thing in StarFox 2 which thankfully didn't carry over to 64 because they made no sense and everyone else called it. All the devs of the original 64 are gone except Miyamoto so now no one is keeping his ideaguyisms in check so the walkers came back and make even less sense.

Don't bother with it user.
Its just a rehashed Star Fox 64.

It's alright.
Worth a playthrough or two but yet another game ruined by Nintendo's hard on for gimmicks.

I like this epic new meme, but 何で doesn't mean "why"

It's supposed to say "PC", as in the best system on which to play the video games.

As much as I like the game, I can't argue with this.

Great game once you get used to the controls. Also spamming barrel rolls helps you not get shot. I'd give it a try. This is coming from someone who got it for free though.

hello rato

hello rato

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Gonna try it out soon

It's probably the best Starfox game to date in terms of gameplay, mechanics, AI, level design, gimmicks, etc. That's the problem though: Starfox as a game doesn't really work well anymore compared to other 3D scrolling shooters or even 3D arcade dogfighting sims. A Starfox 64-like game worked well for the N64 and in 1996 because at the time there were so few games like it. Same with earlier with the SNES game in 1993. However in 2016 and after a near full year of delays it kinda just fell flat, mostly because while it was a good Starfox game it was mediocre compared to other games that had come between its release and the last full Starfox game (Command in 2006).

The controls were fine, only idiots who have no idea how to tilt aim or use the reticle on the TV screen to aim while only looking down when you need to do off bore shots had problems with it and anybody saying they "got gud" while crying about them (like ) are bullshitting. My biggest problem with the game is that it felt so unfinished, or rather not unfinished but like they wanted to do so much more with it but just couldn't think anything. As a concept Starfox Zero had been in development since the Wii days, even briefly moving to the 3DS as the initial internal demo for what became Kid Icarus Uprising (which I also assume is where the idea to separate aiming and movement came from as well). It took them until the Wii U to figure out their control scheme and then they kinda blanked out on everything else besides a basic plot outline of "Andross invades the Lylat System and you have to fight through enemies to stop him". Sure, sometimes less is more, but some people were expecting more of a story or at least some after-campaign missions or something to account for the portal plot devices.

You have no idea what you're talking about, especially considering Miyamoto wasn't even the lead developer or producer for Zero.

Except it isn't, which was a complaint people had: it was too different.

Neither was he the lead developer or producer for Star Fox Adventures, which wasn't even going to BE a Starfox game until he pretty much forced Rare to make it one, thus causing them to scrap a bunch of stuff they had planned.

Neither was he the lead developer or producer for Paper Mario but he stuck his nose in and you should know what happened.

Stop being a shitty nintendrone whose defending the actions of someone who'd ruin other people's visions. He's ruined potentially good business relationships with how he acted in meetings by glaring at people. I'm not going to spoon feed you shit.

Oh shit, thats right, Miyamoto also stole code from Argonaut. You know, the guys who originally made Mode 7 for the SNES?

Short but still good. Set cockpit view on tv screen you will mostly play on that, the third-person is only useful for avoiding obstables and shots.

My only complaint is the unorthodox fixed control scheme, which idiot in platinum games thought it would be a good idea to map boost/brake + barrelroll on the right stick. I have to smack two times the right stick just to barrelroll.

Holy shit. Kill yourself. Just because you get a good at controls doesn't make the controls fun. Do you know what fun and preferences are?

I know him.
No, he does not enjoy fun.

False again. This has never been specifically confirmed in any sort of way that Miyamoto personally forced Rare to turn Dinosaur Planet (which was already years behind schedule) into a Starfox game.
Where did I do such things? Tell me, user.


As expected from a pozfag

Theres no point in refuting you with logic since you clearly ignore it. Go back to Tumblr where you belong, dork.

Gyro copter should never have been a part of the game, the second screen should have never been a part of the game. I wish I could direct a new Starfox.

...

Firstly Nintendo published Starfox 2, they owned the source code to the game and could do with it what they wanted, and secondly the guy who wrote the camera for Starfox 2 also wrote the camera code for Super Mario 64 and greatly improved it.\, and they were a Nintendo employee not one of the Argonaut employee's Nintendo pilfered..

You cunts are fucking retarded.

Firstly, you're wrong. Argonaut was working on Starfox 2 while Miyamoto was doing 64

Secondly, you're wrong because Nintendo employees were working on 64 and not Starfox 2.

Thirdly, Miyamoto did steal it because Starfox 2 was outshining 64 in every way imaginable. Miyamoto shut them down because he is, in fact, a tactlessness hack and didn't want to be upstaged. So he bitched to Nintendo constantly so they could put more and more limits on Argonaut and removing features on a pretty much completed game, then suddenly having it canceled because Miyamyballs'o wanted a "Clean break from 2D to 3D" which doesn't make sense at all.

Just because you steal something and "improve" on it doesn't mean it wasn't stollen. He got the game canceled then picked it apart for what he could take.

But no, as for Mario 64, he just stole the idea from them and said "Oh don't worry! You'll make more than enough on the royalties" after they rejected their 3D platform game

...

You don;t know what you are talking about at all.

Nintendo, can't steal the source code to a game they already own, and Starfox 2 employees did work on Super Mario 64 including the 2 that Nintendo pilfered from Argonaut, they would have gotten Cuthbert as well if Jez San didn't force him into a new contract which made this impossible.

Takumi Kawagoe is Super Mario 64's camera programmer and he was the camera programmer for Star Fox 2, consider killing yourself for not knowing this yet trying to push this bullshit


And I suppose you can prove he did this

Do you even know why Starfox 2 wasn't released, because Nintendo wanted to drop Argonaut, Nintendo didn't need Argonaut anymore, they had already pilfered 2/3 of it's talent and Argonaut's relationship with Nintendo was primarily built around the Super FX chip something that was no longer needed with Nintendo's deal with Silicon Graphics which even predates the original Starfox's release date , hell most of the development team on Starfox 2 were Nintendo employees

No he didn't, Shiggy came up with the idea for Super Mario 64 during the development of Starfox for Snes, and the Yoshi prototype wasn't shown to Nintendo until after Super Mario 64 had started development, by Jez San's own words near the end of Nintendo's and Argonauts relationship. late 1994-early 1995, Super Mario 64 had technically started development in 1993 as a prototype built on the Silicon Graphics workstations and Super Mario 64's core development is supposed to have began in mid 1994, so how the fuck did Nintendo steal the idea of a 3d platformer, an Idea that Shiggy already had from a prototype that didn't yet exist, and then do a significantly better job than that prototype using stolen code from a game with a camera system that wasn't in any way like the one Mario 64 had and didn't feature the dynamisn or level of control the Mario 64 camera had that was the most important aspect of the camera and then somehow in spite of stealing all of this code, the company that apparently developed it didn't even fucking use it in a game that released a year and a half after it

Do you enjoy being a retard who can't do any fucking research and uncritically believes everything he sees in a video on the internet?

Thank you, user. I would have done the same thing had I remembered Jez San's stuff.

...

...

Yeah, the Starfox IP can't really work well unless if it goes to handheld like FE or if it turns AAA like Warhawk or Ace Combat. Ideally, I think it would be good for them to head back into handheld as they could experiment with newer mechanics with the benefit of it having a low-budget.

I wouldn't mind if they did an edgier AAA reboot like they did with Metroid Prime.

I honestly thought that's what they were going for with 64 3D, but I guess that didn't pan out.

Would be the best Starfox game if it just had more control options, and maybe a bit more content. As is, it's good. The controls are usable with a bit of practice, but they're not ideal.

I don't understand this mentality. Why are on rails shooters an obsolete genre? I still find them fun. This just seems like the same logic that told us for years we couldn't have first person shooters without health regen or weapon limitations because of some vague bullshit like "it's not the 90's anymore". Why can't we have a really good on rails shooter like Sin and Punishment 2?

okay, now go into the quake thread and say that about bunny hopping and rocket jumping


nothing is obsolete, not even rts.
in fact, rail shooters should be thriving in this day of motion controls. should feel just like were at the arcade playing virtua cop

It's a waste of time. Just play a good rail shooter instead like panzer dragoon orta.

...

for what purpose

That aside, I find >>12700697's point interesting, and another example of how Miyamoto is pretty out of touch with what people want. Vid related covers the controls in detail, and although Mark Brown is hardly perfect, this is one of his better videos. What you may want to see is the direct quote from Miyamoto who said he wanted the controls to "make the gamepad essential." When asked if he was concerned about players not being able to focus on two screens at once, or if the game's version of all-range mode would be a problem given it restricted the player to the gamepad screen only, he said that it was fine because if you had to focus on the gamepad screen, then people who were watching you play could watch the TV screen and see some "cool gameplay maneuvers."

Things on Holla Forums tend to be hyperbolic by nature, and the influx of 4cucks hasn't helped things, but that man really needs to go if Nintendo wants to start making good games again.

Don't bother with it user it's just SF64 remake with SF2 elements in it you just might as well sell it and buy a better game.

Content-wise it's pretty much Star Fox 64 with more linearity, a few more all-range fights, and some elements aped from of the cancelled SF2. They don't really go too out there with levels and enemy design, which is a shame because if there was one thing this game should have lifted from SF2 its level design.

The controls are the biggest problem with the game, but not for the meme complaint of them being so bad (even if they are unreliable as it's based on motion control gimmicks and would have fared better if it just used the second analog stick). The problem is that they're too good for the game. It operates like a twin-stick shooter, but this clashes with the level and enemy design which is very much in-line with other Star Fox games. Being 3D SHMUPs, the games tied your aiming to your movement and required you to move in and out of danger to make shots. However, in SFZ your aim is free and independent from your movement. In all-range fights, this isn't so bad as the levels are wider and have free movement, meaning your aiming and movement will still be working together, and they do take some advantage of this with some boss and enemy designs. In the normal, linear stages though, the free aiming horribly breaks the game. Since you're movement is much more restricted and forced along a linear path, the placement and design of enemies will reflect this fact, always appearing in front of you and having front-facing weakpoints. Because of this, the free aiming makes these stages a joke - aiming is much easier given how everything is front-facing and your movement only needs to be concerned with dodging things and little need to place yourself to aim. You no longer need to weave in and out of more dangerous spots to pop a few shots or lock on to a target, you can just aim wherever you want.

This is one of those really odd few games where it has a (relatively) high skill floor and a low skill ceiling. The effort required to pick up and play it is greater than every other SF game (barring 2 and possibly Command as it lifts some elements from it as well), but once you get past the gimmicky controls it takes very little skill to play this game well (thanks to the easily exploitable controls and lack of any design to compensate for them). Really the only niche that this game would appeal to is the few tryhard faggots that simultaneously complain about casuals ruining games but are bad at deeper, more skilled games. The people that just want games that have tedious or artificial barriers to entry for the sake of being exclusionary while also putting in the least amount of effort possible, just to feel superior about their ability to put up with flawed/bad game design. So it's no wonder why faggots here evangelize it.

you spent a lot of time writing all this, but i don't think this game is worth it. play the panzer dragoon quadrilogy instead

I agree with this. It took a while for me to get the controls, but once I learned them, I figured out you can avoid a lot of dangerous stuff while still being able to attack.

The earlier Star Fox games made you choose between attacking and risking taking damage, or avoiding damage and not hitting enemies. The fixed crosshairs meant you had to point your ship and place it where you wanted to shoot.

With the two being decoupled, you can shoot things from a safe position. It takes a lot of the risk and reward out of the basic gameplay.

And the worst part is, the controls take time to learn, but once you learn them, you realize you can just hide in corners most of the time and then aim where you want to and kill a ton of stuff.


This is the perfect way to sum up SFZ. They tried to raise the skill ceiling by making you chase high scores, but the game just isn't fun enough to chase high scores when they took a lot of the risk and reward away by decoupling movement and aiming.

I probably have that mentality because linear on-rail shooters have been superseded by linear cinematic shooters like CoD and Uncharted. Don't get me wrong, I like old on rail shooters myself, but I can't imagine paying $10-60 for them.

With the Gyrowing, it was added to have a vehicle to move in 3D space (unfortunately slow) and feels like something that should have been in a Pilotwings game. And yet a better choice instead of the GW would have been to have the Blue Marine sub playable. It's slowness make sense because it underwater and can move in 3D.

The only thing that make's me happy about SFZ is that fact that Nintendo has fully dried up the "well" that is SF64, remade with 64 3D, (just water) while re-imagined with SFZ (water, dirt and stones). Now they have to either make an original SF or remake/re-imagine the SNES games.


Is it a first print copy with Star Fox Guard? That game turned out to be pretty fun.


Development can be on/off, they aren't constantly working on a game. They probably came up with a Wii prototype, didn't like it and moved on (or staff resources shift to better, funner prototypes that can turned into actual released games).

Bullshit.
Sakarai (not EAD) came up with a 3rd person shooter prototype (a genre unpopular in Japan), then was suggested by Iwata to use a Nintendo franchise in it, considered SF because of flying and shooting but was limited to being an aircraft flying around while shooting in front, while playing as Pit allowed shooting and moving in different directions, hovering, and on foot shooting (while KI was also used because of demand for a new game and Pit popularity from Brawl)
I will admit there is an interesting irony that SFZ now has moving and shooting independently (and on foot segments with the Walker) like KIU.


It's been revealed that Q-Games actually pitched a remake of the SNES SF after 64 3D was completed but were turned down. NOOOOOOOOOOOO

SFZ is a fun game, it's just disappointingly lacking in content and variety. It's another game you can finish in less than an hour like SF64, but with somehow even less level selection and variety in missions. It allows you to replay certain missions with different vehicles but the variety they add to the game is negligible.

This game is so lacking in content that I almost wondered why they even bothered. It needs so much more.

I don't really feel the motion controls added much of value to the game, it was already fine with traditional controls. I wish they had focused on something else, like expanding on the story and lore, fleshing out each of the unique planets, maybe making a mercenary career mode where you fly through the lylat system doing missions to get money.

If they ever do another Star Fox game (which is doubtful since they'll blame the customers for not liking this lackluster effort) I hope they hand it off to someone more ambitious.

The game requires some commitment. Which is what I like about it, but it's also why I haven't played it nearly as much as I want to.
It's not very addictive to keep me going, and the gamepad controls demand more focus than splatoon so it's not something to relax too, but in the end the experience really stuck with me. It feels a little more comparable to punch out than starfox in that regard.

Pikmin 3's probably still my favorite of this gen, though.