750,000 WOMEN showed up in LA

Try reading the authors you preach before you embarras yourselves any firther, dumb fucking proles

...

Gotta speak their language if you want them to be receptive to your message.

An incredible showing that will soon be forgotten. 15 million people protested Iraq, nothing changed. What you personally can do is what you should be doing anyways already: Educate, agitate, organize.

...

Why are you always so cynical about shit. Nobody likes it

You have to force them to act. One man punched Richard Spencer and now everyone is openly laughing at him. Imagine if 750,000 people did something similar to a more substantial symbol of oppression. Shit would change overnight.

Tar and feathers

I completely understand the sentiment here, but this ain't 2005 anymore.

The internets way higher adoption rate will make sure these protests aren't ignored this time.

I am actually old enough to remember the Iraq protests and I can tell you there weren't covered nearly as much as the women's march is

I'd be pro-feminist if they supported shit that actually helped poor women (and poor people in general), not annoying fascist shit like forcing people to use gender neutral pronouns.

How are feminists not helping poor women exactly?

something revolutionary and productive?
You don't.
America is far from ready to have a revolution.
Nor would one be successful given the sheer size of both the land area and national guard forces of the United States even if it was.

Your best bet would be to attempt to funnel this anger into a movement for an independent Pacific States of America (and balkanization of the US in general).
Smaller statelets have smaller land areas to cover and defense forces capable of suppressing a revolution.

The simple fact of the matter is that the US will never fall while it is still in one piece.

This. So much this.

...

No America would be pretty easy to take over. You just have to start at the state level. America is more or less a federation of states with a large government over the top of them. States have a huge amount of say over what goes on within their borders and are much easier for a small group of dedicated activists to infiltrate.

The patriarchy is as real as capitalism you moron.

I will be happy if I am proven wrong. In 2005 I didn't even use the Internet regularly and only heard of the protests through the news, so you may very well be right. I'm from Germany and even here we had marches. I just hope some kind of socialist fruit can be planted there, because right now it looks to me like theres lots of liberal agenda being pushed.

It's been a long time since the last socialist movement. It's just hard to believe THIS will be the moment if you've been involved with leftist organisation (like I was/am) for any significant time, especially when we're talking about the US. I'm hopeful, but I don't expect anything of substance.

You know that you can use this argument to completly undermine all leftists rethroic right?

Besides, i am a nihilist, what makes you belive I will fall for your slave morality?

I just said Lenin was hard about women's rights…what…

hey Holla Forums whatchya doin?

There are other Holla Forums posters but the suspicion is justified…but only posting it towards that is skepticism inducing, as even you could have made that post

Are you seriously doing this?

Lets get real even if I know this discussion will go nowhere
There is a difference beatween civil rights and pretending that men have a secret society to opress women.

The burden of proof lies with you to explain to me how modern feminism is helping the poor and anything to do with leftism.

nobody ever said that in this thread…least of all me.

Patriarchy is not idpol in anyway

Its like saying racism is idpol, and that nazisis are do not actually hate blacks and jews

There are men, specially closeted homos that hate women, this hate is as irrational as racism

The patriarchy is a cultural artifact. It's like racism but much more widespread and systemic. Read fucking Engels. Jesus.

Nice

Most women I'm friends with overlap in both feminism and communism..but more radical kinds of it, related to Angela Davis and the like.

There's not a way to capture this demographic without reading some work and knowing some names, and least of all are they any less radical than any of you. We are at an impasse.

...

Somebody said patriarhy and my bullshit detector went fucking crazy

Here it comes, the nature versus nurture argument

Are you seriously implying that the patriarchy (the nuclear family, gender roles as they exist today, etc) is natural?

I'm honestly alright with people bringing idpol to Holla Forums as long as they are 1) not undercover trolls and happy to engage in sincere discussion/learning and 2) it does not take too much priority on this board. When I got confronted with socialist thought I was a liberal myself, only an educated socialist explaining to me how Marxist thought tackles oppression made me realize there are more nuanced and more complete ways to look at sexism, racism and so on.

family and gender roles are a different subject
My issue is how feminists think of men as a big other

Well. If it was part of us for so long, obviously a lot of women are going to also be ready to embrace the left than men in America.

So when you cringe it creates sectarianism, but they and you both shouldn't be so sectarian or identity based. I don't know how leftypol can ever take women in without regarding something of a compromise, but I doubt that at this point.

It would be a good idea however, to be more open, then suggesting we be more open to all women's rights issues and feminism in a general way, than suggest we convince all midwesterns with a stance on men.

Because when it comes to communists, the answer where more lie is simple.

Working class women.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You faggots need women to do you work for you? You really are losers.
Get fucked.

No one said such thing you mouth breathing retard
Imsaidm"patriarchy" here

Lol pleb

It's better than being a single cuckold who lies 24/7 Holla Forums

Holla Forums today you lied about a dead man

I ain't reading that crap and since "is not your job to educate me" I will never care

lol

the pdf has nothing to do with feminism, it's Proudhon's "What is Property." Calm your autism dude.

He's being a douche.

Start with Angela Davis and black civil rights movements, that's where most radical women through the last 40 years have been coming from in figures we look up to. She is more or less an inspiring black communist figure who established that the prison system would overflow and should be abolished or reformed

decades later…she's right and we have more than China because of nonviolent drug offenses

So, really, we ought to look also towards the civil rights era than the last time we had a legitimate revolution, because in America, the closest we've had has been since blacks came out almost universally for the rights of their work, labor, and freedom

Were the original international brigades this dumb? No wonder catalunya failed

stop

B-but he started it!

You started by posting about imaginary stuff

isn't it past your bedtime?

Everyboidy has bad blood over feminism right now, and as leftists we can't seperate ourselves from it

So we become sectarian in such a way we alienate potential women from the board

Women can be some of our greatest friends here, or a liability. But as a general rule for our attitudes here?

I'm saying we shouldn't be so accepting of hostility, but neither towards hostilities.

We need to remain neutral to work out bad blood.

Yes, while spooks are imaginary, thenactions taken by the people based on it are not

Thats the whole point of spooks

Oh so according to you there is a secret protocol of the ancient patriatchs to opress women
Or according to you men are born evil and bullshit like that and so we must fight against it

Either way its all bullshit

Men don't understand what a lot of us talk about without hatred. I don't hate men. I know it is lame to say, but most of my friends are men, and i like masculinity.

There's a growing hate of liberal feminism, and you should take advantage of it

that is nice but we don't need feminism, we need egalitarianism beatween genders and we need to recognize that the problems each gender faces is not because a big other

Because of the long term historic association women have with communism it would be incredibly stupid to hold this opinion when its just a word that means women's rights, and that's how women treat it

With more people hating liberal feminism in turn for communism

You need these women

No you retard, woman hating men with latent impotence understand that by creating the notion of patriarchy as a cultural entity, they can exploit women, an example of this is how women must do the housework for no remuneration, or voluntarily remuneration

By creating the notion of patriarchy, the bourgeoisie can economically exploit even its own family

why does everyone hate this poster so much?

I don't even think of myself as a feminist but what the fuck is egalitarianism supposed to mean in this context
when have egalitarians marched, agitated or done anything. Do they even have theory or literature.
I'm convinced egalitarians don't exist outside of the internet.

Maybe you shouldn't give into idpol and focus more on the class struggle sweetie

See here's the problem, I don't give a fuck about working with women, I give a fuck about working with feminists who bitch about an abstract known as the patriarchy which doesn't exist

She hurts feelings

Wut?

Since women are in the workplace and are likely to be fuck that with their labor when it comes to your opinions, and more become radicalized/communist, you need to stop, take a risk, and jump

YOU EVEN HAVE ACCEPTED TRIP FAGS HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HOLY SHIT THIS BOARD IS A JOKE

Feminism is womens rights but where are men's rights, queer rights, black rights or latino rights? they are not in feminism and femnists need to understand that their struggle is not uniersal, the universal struggle is class struggle and feminis is just a small drop in the ocean

yeah, its made

Either way I'm off to bed
good night and good rape

We have ecelebs too not nearly as cancerous as Milo and Spencer, don't have anaphylactic shock

She was better under user and the anfem flag tbh

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Women are half the human race cross race and demographic, so if you think ignoring that demographic growing in radical left energy is a good idea

You're basically an idiot I'm sorry

This is why so many communist leaders throughout our existence from Lenin to Sankara have been feminists and won massive support and appeal

It takes two to tango

Low energy. Sad!

Hi newfag

something revolutionary and productive?

We don't, the Iraq War protests were several times larger and were literally forgotten about within the week.

Liberal protesting is literally just virtue signaling. It even took place on a fucking weekend, no general strike or anything. They will be back to work monday serving Porkie and nothing changing.

I think Lenin and Sankara would've reconsidered if they saw what happened to liberated Western women

So is this proof accelerationism works? Do any of our resident liberals and soc dems honestly believe a rally this size would've happened if Hillary had won? I'm asking seriously.

Accelerationism only works if the commies are ready to seize power when shit really hits the fan. America has no major left wing political parties. Odds are we will just become full fascist when the next crisis hits.

congratufuckinglations, you retard

drop that flag and actually read Nietzsche or Stirner

The reason a lot of libs claim to be in the street is we're already in fascism or slippery sloping down to it.

Since Trump is being sold as the furthest right president in living memory, I think if the economy goes bust under him it could discredit the American right for sometime. Much like with the disastrous presidencies of Hoover and Bush W.

You know, I don't agree with third worldists on much, but holy fuck the first world left is so fucking pathetic.

ugh.

Go read the /r/politics thread.

"I can't want to tell the people at work about the good feelings I had today"

"You know what guys, after today, I think things are going to be alllllrriight"

"I've never seen the power of people in action but I did today and it was fantastic!"

Yeah man, a fucking GOVERNMENT PRE APPROVED MARCH on a fucking weekend for an hour. The response to fucking Fascists in the white house.

We're fucked I swear to god.

Fascist is an antiquated term that certainly doesn't describe Trump.

When Zizek uses big other, does he mean the symbolic order or a literal big other.

gender roles are in part inherent to humans

the international brigades fought on the Madrid front you nitwit

We are going to have this argument over and over.

Trump matches almost every single one of Eco's observations of a Fascist movement. Trump literally has white nationalists in his cabinet, his inauguration speech was written by an actual neo-nazi.

They are Fascists.

Fascist = / = Nazi Germany.

Hmm, wouldn't it be a shame if someone… divided this movement

I know what a fascist is. I've just a bit of fascist literature, the open reproach of democracy is completely absent from Trumps tenor. But, I am open to being convinced Trump is a "fascist" and not a run of the mill right wing populist ala Berlusconni.

They're not wrong

less then 50% of the population voted, so how many white women actually voted for him?

So, when's Hillary going to jail? Can we get an ETA?

They're using the old liberal cliche "everyone that disagrees with me carries a harmful social label". COINTELPRO.
Not that they're employed by the FBI, but I think there is some serious trickle down ideology from their tactics.

Wew.

I'm not sure who I hate more– this lady or the idiot fucking douchenozzles who actually give her money to tell them that they're white and evil. What the fuck is this world?

Enough to fully reinstate the Patriarchy and set women's rights back a hundred years. We must never forget not forgive the treacherous snake that is the white woman.

you guys are nuts, Holla Forums hates the yids far more than you do

They voted for Trump none the less. You guys really need to get over your race spook. You'll all rightfully glorious uprising on SJWs but on white women you hesitate

I will be using this in the future, just so you know.

the phrase, that is

I think the potential is there but everyone needs to be reading off the same page.
Too bad nowadays it's 'choice feminism' so you don't actually have to change anything because everything is potentially, for them, empowering.

Of course they do. White women are desirable. Disagreeing with them makes you their enemy. We wouldn't want that.

Race is a spook

You can't. Any rally is hijacked by liberals and socdems

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walking topless pretty much covers it

Economic rights. But radfem are not paid to talk about those.

That's wrong. They demand equal wageslaving muh privileges.

What is wrong? I made two statements.

marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1906/mass-strike/ch02.htm

"For the anarchist there exist only two things as material suppositions of his “revolutionary” speculations – first, imagination, and second goodwill and courage to rescue humanity from the existing capitalist vale of tears. This fanciful mode of reasoning sixty years ago gave the result that the mass strike was the shortest, surest and easiest means of springing into the better social future. The same mode of reasoning recently gave the result that the trade-union struggle was the only real “direct action of the masses” and also the only real revolutionary struggle – which, as is well known, is the latest notion of the French and Italian “syndicalists.” The fatal thing for anarchism has always been that the methods of struggle improvised in the air were not only a reckoning without their host, that is, they were purely utopian, but that they, while not reckoning in the least with the despised evil reality, unexpectedly became in this evil reality, practical helps to the reaction, where previously they had only been, for the most part, revolutionary speculations."

marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1906/mass-strike/ch07.htm

"The mass strike is the first natural, impulsive form of every great revolutionary struggle of the proletariat and the more highly developed the antagonism is between capital and labour, the more effective and decisive must mass strikes become. The chief form of previous bourgeois revolutions, the fight at the barricades, the open conflict with the armed power of the state, is in the revolution today only the culminating point, only a moment on the process of the proletarian mass struggle. And therewith in the new form of the revolution there is reached that civilising and mitigating of the class struggle which was prophesied by the opportunists of German social democracy – the Bernsteins, Davids, etc. It is true that these men saw the desired civilising and mitigating of the class struggle in the light of petty bourgeois democratic illusions – they believed that the class struggle would shrink to an exclusively parliamentary contest and that street fighting would simply be done away with. History has found the solution in a deeper and finer fashion: in the advent of revolutionary mass strikes, which, of course, in no way replaces brutal street fights or renders them unnecessary, but which reduces them to a moment in the long period of political struggle, and which at the same time unites with the revolutionary period and enormous cultural work in the most exact sense of the words: the material and intellectual elevation of the whole working class through the “civilising” of the barbaric forms of capitalist exploitation.

The mass strike is thus shown to be not a specifically Russian product, springing from absolutism, but a universal form of the proletarian class struggle resulting from the present stage of capitalist development and class relations. From this standpoint the three bourgeois revolutions – the Great French Revolution, the German Revolution of March, and the present Russian Revolution – form a continuous chain of development in which the fortunes and the end of the capitalist century are to be seen. In the Great French Revolution the still wholly underdeveloped internal contradictions of bourgeois society gave scope for a long period of violent struggles, in which all the antagonisms which first germinated and ripened in the heat of the revolution raged unhindered and unrestrained in a spirit of reckless radicalism. A century later the revolution of the German bourgeoisie, which broke out midway in the development of capitalism, was already hampered on both sides by the antagonism of interests and the equilibrium of strength between capital and labour, and was smothered in a bourgeois-feudal compromise, and shortened to a miserable episode ending in words."

"The first threatening political danger with which the German proletariat have concerned themselves for a number of years is a coup d’état of the reaction which will wrest from the wide masses of the people of the most important political right – universal suffrage. In spite of the immense importance of this possible event, it is, as we have already said, impossible to assert with certainty that an open popular movement would immediately break out after the coup d’état, because today innumerable circumstances and factors have to be taken into account. But when we consider the present extreme acuteness of conditions in Germany, and on the other hand, the manifold international reactions of the Russian Revolution and of the future rejuvenated Russia, it is clear that the collapse of German politics which would ensue from the repeal of universal suffrage could not alone call a halt to the struggle for this right. This coup d’état would rather draw after it, in a longer or shorter period and with elementary power, a great general political reckoning of the insurgent and awakened mass of the people – a reckoning with bread usury, with artificially caused dearness of meat, with expenditure on a boundless militarism and “navalism,” with the corruption of colonial policy, with the national disgrace of the Konigsberg trial, with the cessation of social reform, with the discharging of railway workers, the postal officials and the land workers, with the tricking and mocking of the miners, with the judgement of Lobtau and the whole system of class justice, with the brutal lockout system – in short, with the whole thirty-year-old oppression of the combined dominion of Junkerdom and large trustified capital.

(…)

Those who speculate thus forget that in Germany when it once comes to the outbreak of open political struggles, even the historically determined goal will be quite different from that in Russia today. Precisely because the bourgeois legal order in Germany has existed for a long time, because therefore it has had time to completely exhaust itself and to draw to an end, because bourgeois democracy and liberalism have had time to die out – because of this there can no longer be any talk of a bourgeois revolution in Germany. And therefore in a period of open political popular struggles in Germany, the last historically necessary goal can only be the dictatorship of the proletariat. The distance, however, of this task from the present conditions of Germany is still greater than that of the bourgeois legal order from Oriental despotism, and therefore, the task cannot be completed at one stroke, but must similarly be accomplished during a long period of gigantic social struggles.

But is there not a gross contradiction in the picture we have drawn? On the one hand it means that in an eventual future period of political mass action the most backward layers of the German proletariat – the land workers, the railwaymen, and the postal slaves – will first of all win the right of combination, and that the worst excrescences of exploitation must first be removed and on the other hand, the political task of this period is said to be the conquest of power by the proletariat! On the one hand, economic, trade-union struggles for the most immediate interests, for the material elevation of the working class; on the other hand the ultimate goal of social democracy! Certainly these are great contradictions, but they are not contradictions due to our reasoning, but contradictions due to capitalist development. It does not proceed in a beautiful straight line but in a lightning-like zig-zag. Just as the various capitalist countries represent the most varied stages of development, so within each country the different layers of the same working class are represented. But history does not wait patiently till the backward countries, and the most advanced layers have joined together so that the whole mass can move symmetrically forward like a compact column. It brings the best prepared parts to explosion as soon as conditions there are ripe for it, and then in the storm of the revolutionary period, lost ground is recovered, unequal things are equalised, and the whole pace of social progress changed at one stroke to the double-quick."

This depends on your area. I know in most parts of my country this is custom/social more and not actually legislated and this is more common than you might imagine.

I only know this because I got into a stupid argument on this topic and this was the only thing the other person could come up with. And, as it turned out, they were wrong about that too as far as this area goes.

Liberals let alone liberal women hardly ever do anything voilent at best they become a road block.

Daily reminder that COINTELPRO not only pushes for extreme idpol, but also for antifeminism.

The beauty of allowing things aside from class struggle play a supporting role to class struggle is you get those people's support.

You're thinking of bourgeois liberal feminism. Marxist Feminism is a thing too.

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By showing them the light of the workers and not of the identitarian.

They have no revolutionary potential. Trying to win them over to egalitarian leftism is about as productive as trying to win over the people protesting in favor of Trump. In fact, I think we might have more luck with the pro-Trump idiots because at least they are largely motivated by working class economic concerns rather than the mythical patriarchy.

Fuck off Nick.

Is that anything like anarcho-feminism which is explicitly pro-authority (as long as women are in charge) and opposed to people freely organizing among themselves?

Being against idpol means being against sexism fam.

Post commie ladies.

Which is why anti-idpol means anti-feminism. You'd have to make one hell of a No True Scotsman argument to claim that feminism is devoid of sexism.

Sad!

Wanting to be treated based on your merit as an individual rather than judged based on your sex =/= sexism
Liberal idpol has made a mockery of minority struggles, reducing it to petty language policing, token quotas and issues like bathrooms and college safe spaces.

Hard to say really, feminism is one of those movements that has branched off in all kinds of crazy directions like a bunch of Trots. Originally of course it wasn't sexist, but certainly some elements have become misandrist.

But if you consider the original meaning of feminism (ie gender equality) then any socialist ought to be a feminist.

Sure, and fascism is all about protecting your homeland and making humanity the best it can be…

But why would you define it to be that way? Why not pick a better name for the meaning you want to convey? Would you approve of redefining "pro-white" to mean "equality for all", just so you can call your movement "pro-white socialism". Both labels have connotations of bigotry even if you've redefined them in such a way that they don't actually mean that. It's pointless and counterproductive.

Honestly I wish the left as a whole would drop all of the terminology which has negative connotations. Using USSR-era symbolism and labels doesn't do us any favors when we try to argue that the USSR wasn't real socialism.

This image loses its edge when you realize all of the equations and figures are nothing more than basic geometry and calculus. If the intention is to show the intense internal thinking of the pictured woman, it actually says more about the limited math education of the creator.

t. mathemagician

am I the only one here from /math/

I agree the name feminism is shitty one, especially with the state of women's rights being what it is. I think that women have made enough progress for us to start talking about male gendered issues like suicide, workplace deaths, etc. I was just pointing out that technically, feminism is gender equality, even if that's a bad label for it.

There's an opportunity for a very cheap joke there.

The term "the left" has negative connotations, as does nearly every specific leftist ideology term.

Agreed. In fact I'd rather start over from scratch with all terminology. Occupy actually had a good thing going on with their 99% and 1% phrasing. Of course then feminism got involved and implemented the "progressive stack"…

Waste millions paying them to protest for you.

Even if you disagree with liberal conceptions, it's helpful to use language that they understand.

Say what you will about motivations, but this kind of mass action is unprecedented in America

If you let them choose your words for you, they've already won. That's why the copyright cartels strongly encouraged the use of their own terminology like "intellectual property" - to create a false equivalence in the public consciousness between copying monopolies and personal property.

Deport the patriarchs, gender war now!

Seriously though, I'm surprised this is where political energy is actually at. Should find a way to bend it in a more class-war-oriented way.

Well women are understandably angry that Americans just elected a boorish sexual predator to the White house.

Maybe they shouldn't have voted for him then.

that's not what the big Other is you fucking idiot

One wonders why this wasn't a problem when the sexual predator had a D next to his name.

Enough of Bill-bashing though. What is your program to deal with boorish sexual predators?

It's funny they weren't so angry when Obama was dropping bombs on women and children in foreign countries. I guess "grabbing pussy" is worse than blowing women's limbs off.

Nearly every cookie cutter mainstream political label has negative connotations.
"Liberal", "Conservative", "Fascist", "Populist", "Leftist", "Rightists".
The cesspit of false dichotomies and buzzwords stagnates political discussion and analysis, and primarily serves to keep a class of parasitic elites in power.

I don't understand how Holla Forums can painstakingly type out "hahahahahahaha", go through the tedium of putting the text in red, attach an image from a japanese comic book, and still honestly take themselves seriously. This guy probably spent a solid 5 minutes making a post that is literally devoid of actual content, and he still considers himself and his dipshit friends "superior" in some way.

...

Where were the protest for Bill Clinton and FDR?

Maybe realize that Id-pol isn't only tumblr garbage but that it's actually compatible with class consciousness.

You know, maybe work towards a proper analysis.

...

By finding them husbands so they might know some measure of happyness in taking care of children amd the house.