We have to address the problem of the quality of western games if we ever want them to improve...

we have to address the problem of the quality of western games if we ever want them to improve. Throwing a tantrum like a child whenever legitimate criticism is raised by bringing up decade old games as if they are relevant in any sense does no service for the western industry and serves only to prevent growth.

There's a reason why there are no noteworthy directors from the West in video games, and the attitude that "there are some good western games! just look at doom, deus ex, stalker!!" is suffocating legitimate discussion. These people must be discarded in order for real criticisms and comparisons to be raised and ultimately drive a positive direction for the western industry to grow into.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry
vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Call of Duty&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_role-playing_game
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

The western gaming industry has gone the way of the western movie, music, television, etc. industries. Plain and simple, profit, at any cost, has become the MO of publishers cracking the whip on inexperienced and understaffed dev teams. The people making these games have very little idea of what made the games they liked good in the first place, and even if they did, they'll cram in any feature that their publisher tells them to. Because like I said, the gaming industry isn't run by legitimate creative effort anymore, it's run by profit, and whatever the publishers see as popular and therefore profitable is what they will base their developments on. Thats why when a game gets popular, you see no less than 3 half-hearted efforts to copy it by other publishers, in the hopes that they can leach off the success of the game they're intentionally mimicking.

That's not to say that eastern games aren't mostly shit too user, don't know what you're trying to imply with this thread, but I hope that's not it, the east has gone the way of the anime industry, same shit, different way of fucking the customer over

The big guys became too focused on profit. Marketing overtook the budgets. Even the poles got corrupted, witcher 3 had at least 50% of it's budget spend on marketing.
To the point where games from less profitable genres are not made anymore by big studios.
And then you have a ton of small guys struggling to make anything worth a shit, many of which just follow trends.
But you shouldn't really give japan as an option. Japan only does specific genres right. Japan hasn't ever released a decent FPS or RTS.

Bad developers, bad consumers.

There are no hopes for the western scene.

Bullshit, you nigger haven't played Breakdown and Kessen.

This.
However, unlike with movies, you can't even find talented people outside the system anymore because even the indie scene got commercialized to hell and back. That's why nothing good ever comes from kickstarted games.

Could've just shortened it to bad consumers to be honest. If the majority of people would stop graciously devouring garbage, people would stop making garbage.

Older games are quite relevant. Video games are not an industry, they are an art. We are not consumers, we are connoisseurs.

You are proving my point.

We've reached a point where the majority of creators can only create garbage.

How am I proving your point faggot?

Or are you implying because they are on consoles, they ain't good?

Stop with the pretentiousness.

Video games are glorified time wasters.

This is why you think the Nips make good games because you fuckimg weeaboos will eat any shit they put out and praise it, not for good gameplay or good desigm but merely for being from that country.

Absolutely disguting, theres good games from both regions but you faggos are too busy fellating Japan or looking at the AAA console industry to even give a fuck.

Fags like this have completely ruined th board.

Yes, he is. Console shooters are not real shooters and in fact helped further the decline of PC shooters.

There is nothing to gain here goyim!

Then you faggot don't have any point.

You refuse to play good games while complaining about the industry.

Pure nonsense. You sound like a casual.

I remember vidya being art was a fucking mockery on Holla Forums before the split.

But now people start taking that shit seriously.

And you sound like a hardcore time waster.

obvious as fuck bait

How are video games not art? You don't get any sort of emotional stimulation from the games you play?

The problem is the oversaturated market. Every day tons of shit games are released, if you don't shill your game it will be DOA because everyone will just ignore it like background noise.
Also this normalfags have outnumbered the hobbyists and raised the standards of profit too much. A generic action/adventure game will make a ton more of money than a niche one, so publishers don't bother.
We have to recover the bad image of videogames so only people interested in them make and play them.

Video games aren't art because they ain't drawing.

I'll be disappointed if I don't see a new (200) from this thread

The point is…
PC shooters =/= Console shooters
Apples =/= Pears
Trips = Wasted

Console shooters can never achieve the same speed, accuracy, level size or really anything that a PC shooter can. They are stunted in every regard and mixing the two only lessens the better one.

So your point is because a console shooter can never be as great as PC shooter, it's impossible to have a good console shooter.

Shut your face up and play more games.

Vidya gaem is an art as in expressing through a medium. Further polished by techniques, subtlety, various interpretations, and done with style.

Nowaday it is a badly sculpted dick with nutsack as a pre-order bonus, circumcision as deluxe edition exclusion, and pubes as DLC.

Suck it up, western art scene is doomed the day you guys start to swallow those rubbish from hollyshit, shit pop songs, shit nuvo art, and then pay for seconds with your shit eating smile. Fuck every single one of whoever support those wastes.

Jesus, this kind of thought would be laughed out of old Holla Forums.

Drop the pretentiousness, vidya ain't art, they are time wasters, made so you fags can do something in your free time.

Define art.

Exactly. The same goes for strategy games and many other genres.

That's how I we know you're trolling. Put some more effort in next time.

Except that's wrong, faggot.

The first shooter is made on console/arcade, fucking Space Invader.

Drawing.

I'm the troll when someone is spouting vidya = art in this thread?

Drawing is a waste of time. Are you a preschooler?

Drawing is art though.

Who's the one who plays vidya game here?

All of which had their last great game released over a decade ago. There were some good Western developers at one point, mainly on the PC, but those times passed a long time ago.

The first "proper" FPS was Wolfenstein 3D, which was released first on MS DOS.

The first "proper" FPS was Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3®, which was released first on the XBox 360™.

That's exactly what killed them. People forcing this shit meme.

And doesn't stop Space Invader from being the first shooter.

I would kill to see a proper PC based Japanese take on both those genres. Vanquish proved they can do fantastic things with genres that are more popular in the west.

Keep moving that goalpost.

Does arts imitates life, or life imitates arts. Either way, the you guys are royally fucked.

But not japanese?

*the fact is you guys

And that is?

You have no point in the first place, you ignore good games because they are on consoles, what a faggot.

...

No, they're games. Video games have more in common with football and chess than they do movies or novels. Because they're games. I understand how one could confuse games for belonging in the latter category given their unique composition and the way most modern video games are designed, but video games do not equal art. It's simple when you break it down really; You can have beautiful graphics, touching music, and an engaging story with an intricate message, but without fun gameplay what do you have? A fucking walking simulator. Meanwhile, you take a game with piss-ugly graphics, a screeching cacophony of an OST and a storyline consisting of one long series of fart jokes but with really fun gameplay, and what do you have? A rough-around-the-edges but still excellent video game. Sure, it would be great if we could have the best of both worlds, but that costs resources and ultimately the things that add artistic merit are mere fluff.

You could try to insert a deep message into a video game just like you could try to form a narrative about a game of chess, but really at the end of the day no one gives a shit because they're there to play a game. Sure you can take the cop-out and say "hurr durr everything is art look at my period blood smeared on this canvas" but you might as well kill yourself right now if that's your argument. The point is that games can theoretically have artistic merit due to their unique nature, but they are not inherently art, and more importantly, the harder games try to be art, the shittier they end up being in all regards. Any dev who begins his project by saying "I'm going to make beautiful art" instead of saying "I'm going to make a fun game" is going to make a steaming pile of trash 99.99% of the time, and will only be remembered by Holla Forums making threads about him saying that they may be fat autistic manchildren, but they're glad that at least they're not him.

If art is something preschoolers do then sure. Why calling something "art" is considered a compliment now?
Artists have done nothing for the progress of the human race, unlike mathematics or doctors.

Hey, faggot, Space Invader is first person too.

This is true. I was shocked when playing the Turok 2 PC version and Perfect Dark M+KB hack at just how much better it made the games. Even if a console FPS manages to be good, it would be far far greater on PC.

It's not a compliment, that's the fucking point.

I don't want vidya to be art, I want vidya to be fucking games.

Doesn't stop the game from being good.

The problem with framing the question this way is that it implies the "East vs. West" thing, which absolutely kills discussion. All I will say on the issue is that I think the Nip and Western industries have roughly the same proportion of crap, and the same proportion of occasional good games.
The fact is that you aren't looking for suggestions or ideas on how to "fix" Western games (even though it's games in general that suck, not just Western ones)–you simply want to have another East vs. West thread, as evidenced by retarded shit like this:
Even if that were true, "auteur" directors are rarely important to anything in game development other than broad, high-concept elements that are secondary at best to gameplay, level design, animation, etc.
Take your shit thread and fuck off.

The east is one fucking country.

The west is what? More than ten countries?

Aesthetics? Entertainment? Design? They are far more useful than you faggot. You are pretty much part of a problem because you do not know that 'arts' is not just about banging clay or scribble until something takes shape. Years of learning, techniques, skills, design, etc.

It is as much science as it is art you fucking dipshit.

Why would you want to play a gimped and inferior game? Why would you be okay with a game having its potential limited, its kneecaps broken by being trapped on an inferior machine?

Because it's the only version available, faggot?

What's your point?

The East is one fucking country.

Proportional-wise, it's not even fair for Japan.

where's that meteor

This is modern Holla Forums, where casuals hide behind all that red text.

"Western" vidya development (USA, Canada, UK, Poland, Ukraine, a few others) is much larger in terms of games released, development studios, and customer base. Most of it's shit, but some of it's good. Just like Japan. Again, what's your point? If two buckets are full of 90% shit and 10% gold, but one bucket is twice the size of the other, that doesn't mean the proportions are different.

Well if your taste is that bad, it's no wonder you think the western industry is or was ever salvageable.

When was the last time you actually enjoyed a Western release of anything? I can't recall the last book/comic/cartoon/movie/game/etc. made in the West (Eastern Europe doesn't count) that wasn't a smoldering pile of shit.

You're right when you say that Japan does shit out a high percentage of turds, but at least they're still capable of making something enjoyable once in a while. The West has become a Marxist cultural dark hole.

Why can't I hold this subjectivity.
More recently than any jap one.
I can't recall any eastern thing that wasn't.
So just like the west.

Modern Game Design and bullshit leftist academics

I don't read comics or watch cartoons. I only occasionally watch movies. But English is my first language, so nearly all the books I read are by Western authors; in fact, I don't think I've ever read a book that was translated from Japanese, aside from Hagakure. And I do enjoy non-shit games, Western or otherwise, when they come out. I think Doom was the last Western game that I unabashedly enjoyed. This being Holla Forums, I look forward to the barrage of "shit taste tbh" >(1) replies.

I do too. What I'm saying is art is a buzzword for something manmade pretty to look at. And nowadays not even that.

You want people to suck your dick because you made something pretty? Or because you though so hard about how to make it pretty?
I can entertain myself fucking a whore, so I guess whores are artists.
That something takes effort doesn't make it useful nor valuable. I could break my asshole shitting the biggest turd the world has ever seen, but that doesn't make it worth crap. People only care about art when they have nothing else to care about. There is a reason why artist faggots can't get a job 90% of the time.

Are you talking about nuDoom?

The real reason vidya development has gone to shit.

Yes.
Also, to follow up, the last Nip game I played and enjoyed was Nier: Automata. Ultimately I was a little disappointed with it–I think it would have worked better without the RPG trappings and "open world" structure–but it was still pretty good overall.

I reported you, just so you know.

I play western games for the gameplay and nipgames for the story.

It isn't the only reason.

Nobody cares.

You're right. Leftists are the reason everyone is ugly and looks inbred and the narratives are shit and the fuckwit normalfags are the reason the gameplay is made with kindergarteners in mind.

I think you should consider suicide, for many, many reasons.

You are the problem op is talking about, are a cancer to discussion, and are likely paid to prevent the discussion from happening in the first place.

Does reddit exist solely to make non-retarded people furious?

>>>/reddit/

This discussion doesn't make any sense in the first place. You're delusional if you think anything said here is going to affect gaming

Yes.

D&C shilling 101
Back you go

Do you think most games are good? Do you think most "Western" games are good? Do you think most Nip games are good?
If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

Pure coincidence.

The proportions are different because the west has way more input than Japan.

Thus, the west has way more fucking shit than Japan, proportion-wise.

What did he mean by this?

Simply put the western vidya industry needs AA devs. As in developers of decent to high talent, with a medium amount of funding and a decent amount of freedom. The problem with AAA is that they're so overfunded they have to be tailored to sell to as many people as possible. Some AA devs exist in the western industry but they're either underfunded or not that talented(So far what comes to mind is Cyanide Studios).
A problem exists that there's a kind of gap between indie and AAA. Whatever cool concept you can find in indie games will probably be lacking in quality that you used to see in AAA games. And there are some genres where that shit cannot fly, for example look at the Third Person Shooter genre as well as 3D Stealth Games(Styx is an exception, not the rule and even then it only managed to not suck as hard what's around it).

I can't really confirm this but I also think a lot of current devs just lack passion. Whenever I see a new indie game that says that it's inspired by X or Y it just completely kills my interest because all it does is say that the developer just wanted to make a quick buck off brand recognition. It's why in spite of hearing that Axiom Verge is so good and is totally one of the best 2016 metroidvanias I still haven't played it because I know I won't get past the 30 minute mark. It's why I've completely dropped the overhyped, overmarketed and overbudgeted XCOM2 for the simpler, cheaper and less polished 2D Steamworld Heist, because instead of wasting my fucking time playing a buggy and botched reskin of a game I barely liked, made by world class bullshit salesmen a much more fun alternative was found in what's probably an idea that seemed cool to the developer at the time(Let's make space pirates but they're robots and there are aliens and you can richochet bullets because richochets are cool).

Quality is a symptom, not the cause.

You have to remove the Jewish interests in studios, developers, and publishers, because we basicallly Hollywood now. Theres no accountability, bad games sell well, theyre basically invincible cash cows even if they fail (lol it was just $60, im sure the NEXT game will be even better!)

The problems with western design are pretty easy to identify. A lot of major games suffer from them so its a good idea to focus on a development tier, find working examples, and contrast with the broken one.

A good example is the witcher 3 which is a growth of the witcher 2's combat and shares many of the same flaws. In an attempt to add variety, the dev team created numerous animations for the same kind of attack, the issue is both in real time and game time the animations are of varying lengths. This creates an inconsistent behavior pattern and harms the players control of a situation, instead of giving a direct input and knowing the results you will receive, the game approximates them to deliver the output.

The dev team behind the witcher 2 claimed the combat was inspired by demons souls, and there are clear similarities but drastically different implementation. The animation lengths are identical and the hit detection while imperfect is tracked far more reliably in DeS vs the witcher games. Thia has to do with the foundations of the designs. Cdpr did not understand how to correctly implement these systems despite being inspired by a game with a very easily read combat system. There were few discussions and literally 0 reviews that addressed the inconsistency so the message could be considered totally lost and a lesson never learned.

Filtered, leave the thread if you dont want to discuss the issues. 20 other people do and you are failing to prevent it.

the only ways to "address the problem" are to
-make video games
-buy things you like
-dont buy things you dont like
the last one, we simply dont have the numbers to affect. however buying games from smaller studios is significant.
basically, its the exact same thing as the realization you may have had 7 years ago when you started noticing more and more merchantry starting to affect video games, that is that bigshot AAA games dont hold your answer.

And then you have Holla Forumsirgins buying fallout 4.

I truly wonder how CDPR had tested Witcher 2's combat and said it was fine. I haven't played W3's but W2's was so broken and devoid of fun it boggled my mind how anyone could have designed this and then was okay with it.
The most outstanding issue I had with that game is the corkscrew spin attack that was one of the light attacks. Basically it hit 3 times in what seemed to be less than 0.5 seconds, each hit dealing the same amount of damage as any other singular light attack animation, while also doing a hitstun. What stinks more is that there could have been a very easy fix to this and that's let garrett have combos. I'm not sure why there's this idea that combos==DMC levels of crazy when you can very easily just make a few button combinations for more powerful special attacks or even directional attacks.


I think a problem is that what's to be liked is usually out of sight until brought to light rhyme intended mainly because what's good isn't always what's being put in the spotlight.
I'd argue that Holla Forums should be a place where such games should be discussed but then you have the whole shills fiasco. I don't deny shills exist in Holla Forums, because they do, but there seems to be someone or some people who do nothing but go into threads where somewhat new/obscure games are talked about and start shitposting about how it's a shill thread.

Japan isn't making good games either, you realize.
I mean, they are if you like games so easy a three year old could beat them.
Even games renowned for their difficulty, such as Shin Megami Tensei, Wizardry and Etrian Odyssey have all been casualized and my 16 year old brother who's never played a turn-based game in his life could beat all of them in a week if he tried.
That's what you call superior to Western games?
Games in general are shit.

Play indie. I'm playing Battle for Wesnoth right now, it's better than any licensed shit that's come out in the past ten years.
Also try Infra Arcana. Both of them are freeware. Both of them require a brain to be successful in, unlike your precious Japanese games.

New games are obvious, indie shit marketing is obvious. Shills will play both sides as a tactic if they see an advantage in that as well.

I noticed that issue in tw2 as well. Another thing would be enemies having stagger animations, but shortly after their attack is interrupted, it connects anyway, making it a game about hittin and rolling away regardless of whats going on.

I really think they just don't understand the absolute basics of game design.

I think all they wanted to do was make purty animations because it worked for Arkham. It also worked for The Witcher so I don't think they'll change jack shit. I'm still not sure what anyone here sees in CP2077.


I guess but sometimes it's just pure shitposting to stop any and all vidya discussion.

Give me an example of a thread or two.

I don't know, which way more people working on games?

Hey call that kid and show him Nier Automata, now make him beat the tutorial on Hard.

See how he fares.

Recently(about five days ago I think?) there was a Furi thread, I'm 100% sure the OP had magnets up as well as saying how the game is flawed but is still worth a shot, and then 10 or so posts in the thread got shat up with "wow you're a marketer cuck cuck etc".

I think a lot of people are desperate for a ghost in the shell/blade runner/open world action rpg that they'll hype anything. We're probably gonna get another trailer or something soon since the game went into full production after tw3 came out, and especially once the dlc was done.

Expect an e3 appearance. My expectations are low, cdpr is very amateurish.

To be fair, it's not like you play cRPGs for the combat. Most games in the genre have dogshit combat.

CDPR is probably the best dev for western action RPG.

It's that difficult, huh? I was going to buy it till I saw Square Enix on the cover and scoffed and threw it back on the shelf in disgust. But now I see on the wiki page that they merely published it and didn't develop it, so I will buy it next time I see it.

Yes, and that's on Hard.

Very hard is going to require perfection due to one hit kill.

Though the rest of the game isn't as hard because you can save and have way more options.

This desperation is what leads to disappointment in the first place. "It's the only one of it's kind, even though it's trash I'll give it a pass!"


It's not like that gives CDPR a free pass.


I remember the prologue of MGRR being one of the hardest parts of the game on the higher difficulties because of the higher tier enemies being present while you don't even have dodging, combos or zandatsu.

People on Holla Forums trashed Furi for being trashy artsy indie shit that lasted for a few hours. Shillposting from both sides is always possible, but I'm personally burnt out on artsy garbage, a lot of indie games haven't gone beyond just looking different, they're like 'progressive' indie bands.

For one thing, we don't know anything about the game since they've basically scraped all they did and started from scratch. Considering that CDPR has been getting a lot of new blood in the past few years they might actually shit out combat gameplay that isn't trash, especially since 2077 is a radical departure from Witcher's combat.

I'm not saying the game will be good, I'm just saying that we don't even have enough information to make an educated guess.

It doesn't, and neither does it give a free pass to the likes of Fallout, Arcanum, Bloodlines, etc., it's just something you learn to live with if you enjoy the genre.

congratulations, your attention span is 16 words


that shit is out of control and i wonder if it discourages developers from trying to make games that appeal to the Holla Forums crowd.

On the subject of Furi it's the type of game that I wish to see handled by someone else. There is some talent behind it, like the character designer, the music artists and some of the bosses are really well done, but fundamentally it needs more and it's really buggy and broken at times. And I don't think anyone disagrees that the walking simulation parts were the absolute lowpoint of the game that dragged it down. Which brings me back to the whole AA deal, I personally think if a different, more talented development team took the idea of a pure boss rush game and pushed it to it's limits it would be an unbelievably good game. But as it is Furi is just a fun game that's worth playing for a few hours before forgetting about it or coming back to it every now and then for a better score. I don't think it's worth $30 at all.


But we still have to deter actual shills, I just hope at some point whenever it's obvious shitposting it's ignored instead of replied to but that's a pipedream.


I just don't get that someone is hyped for it while no gameplay or anything relating to how it plays has been shown or mentioned. Same deal with Death Stranding.

the shitposting is usually ignored i find, but its also not deleted. its in larger volume than actual posts and the threads get locked or something silly.

Mods are becoming lazy niggers/and or possibly depressed.

What about painting?

capitalism

You really need to work on your English, because I don't understand what you're asking.

video games are failing commercially, gamestop is going out of business, sony has been bankrupt for years, microsoft is pulling out of the console market and nintendo will be bankrupt too two generations now, assuming they don't move to mobile exclusively before then.

sooo… alright.

It's because AAA is so overbudgeted now. Tell me why a game like Uncharted or Last of Us or The Order or the next CoD/Destiny/Battlefield needs a bajillion dollars for its budget.

Marketing
Its certainly not for the games, thats for sure.

It really makes me wonder how bad the games would sell if they didn't spend that much money on it. It also kind of makes me wonder if people buy these games because they're buying into the marketing and the hype and not the actual game.

Marketing isn't even a real job tbh

Are you implying weeb shit is better?

Lmao, fucking hipsters

they would generally sell worse than the games that do spend a lot on marketing. its a viscous cycle.

Blame your retarded audience for that
Literally everything needs to be marketed heavily to turn any profit.


Breakdown is not a good FPS and Kessen isn't even a good game

vis·cous
ˈviskəs/
adjective
having a thick, sticky consistency between solid and liquid; having a high viscosity.

Retardation is strong in this one.

Wrong.

While I see why more sales is an attractive thing wouldn't it be preferable to spend less and turn a nice profit instead of spending so much just to break even?

Don't play coy.

You know there are more people working on western games due to the sheer amount of population + countries.

Of course. As I said before, that's not relevant to my point though–both "the West" and Japan turn out mostly shit games, with occasional gems.

It's very relevant to your point, the West simply makes more shit games due to the sheer input, thus it's proportionally not comparable to the East, which is one single country.

It's staggering in how many categories you are absolutely wrong.

i would think so, might have something to do with investors demands, you know, higher ups usually dont pay attention to how things get done and often demand impractical ways of getting things done. but its probably less innocent than that too. there are certainly deals going on under the table, bribes and blackmailing all around. when it gets that corporate, people start getting involved in all sorts of things.
weve already seen it happen with games designed so that only certain graphics cards can handle it.

in my defense, its also very slimy business.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that the West and Japan turn out similar numbers of games. I'm saying that whatever percentage of Western games are shit, compared to all Western games, is close to the percentage of Japanese games that are shit, compared to all Japanese games. So if 80% of Western games are shit, 80% of Japanese games are probably also shit.


I was just being cheeky. For what it's worth, I think you're right.

What the fuck am I reading?

Why do libtards act like everyone not near an ocean is a retard, and consider an overwhelming majority of America as 'flyover states?' And they wonder why they're destined to be losers.
You have to be a real piece of shit to lose out to Trump, on top of the DNC constantly reminding everyone that they can't be trusted.
They can fuck off back to their ADT-secured homes with a "no human is illegal" lawn sign.

Isn't this just sheer incompetence? Or is there a proven example for this?

Wizardry hasn't been Western since Wizardry 1, at least not exclusively. Now, the franchise is dead in the west. The games are still being pumped out yearly in Japan and none of them get localized. All for the best, since as I said, they're casualized and basically Pokemon but without the multiplayer.

i recall a game with a second map rendered far below that served no purpose other than to increase the minimum specs.
its possible that im spreading bad information though, so i would appreciate anyone setting the record straight.

It's odd that OP posts a japanese flag when Japan has never made a good video game. I like Japan and there's some great stuff they do make like anime, cars, and porn, but they somehow can't into vidya. There has never been a good Japanese video game, and in fact even Japanese published games made by western devs seem to turn to shit via Japanese influence, eg DXHR.

Again, what the fuck? It's a dead franchise made by burgers and leafs, last I checked. Had SirTech anything common with Nipland besides the unprecedented popularity of the series there?

Wizardry had 8 main games, all developed in the West. Spinoffs and new games continue to be developed in Japan.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry

What the fuck are you even talking about?

That's not Wizardry, just its copycats and games inspired by it. As genuine as a Chinese knockoff.

ok

Did you see what Ubisoft turned Might and Magic into? Do you want me to come over and slap you in the face?

And this is where we need proofing?

Can you back this up?

The problems with vidya began with the original Xbox
More specifically with the inclucion of internet conection in consoles
That is what opened the flood gates for all of the worst trends in vidya
>DLC Disc Locked Content
>DLC content deliveratly cut from the final porduct to sell for separate later
then cellphones and the Wii came an introduced the casual audience and gimmicky shovel ware making things even worse
The MMOFPS genere also shares the blame, every single fucking chad showering shekkels on Activicion Blizzard just to click away their lives in WoW and CoD either grinding into oblivion or following a handheld/spoonfeed linear corridor of a shooting galery and sudenly the nippon kikes came in and said they wanted a slice of that shekkel cake to, Westernizing their own Vidia to appeal to casuals and craping it up for everyone else who actually liked it
Not to mention, M$ entering the industry gave the West a much firmer stronghold on said industry and the press quickly took sides with M$ likelly thanks to marketing brives and began to grow, shtting on the superior nippon vidya awhile shilling for M$ who kept them all on life support, and it was thanks to that life support that the SJW cancer within the press grew to the level it is now
luckily the cancer seems to be collapcing on itself now
>Nipponese devs have learned the hard way that westernizing dumbing down into generic skinner boxes their IPs is a stupid idea that does not sell
at this point the only demon left to slay in current day vidya is the "le visual novel disguised as game" meme Telltales, David Cage and the "muh relatable characters", "muh thought provoking story", "muh engaging narrative" 10/10 meme the press keeps trying to push on games with barelly any gameplay and what little mechanics they have were dumbed down husk scraped form other games by a focus test group who frankeinsteined a stiff putrid turd of a game and then aplied it make up to appeal to casuals who just want a shinny band waggon to ride in any hype train that's currently hip The Last of Us being the poster boy for these tipes

Aside from these 2 memes plaguing current vidya, almost everything else is currently dying, It's a shame we had to loose the entire 7th generation of consoles to the non gamer/SJW/filthy casual crowd

Just try it. The rights to Wizardry trademark weren't transferred to any Japanese company, were they?

Vanquish is a console shooter and it trumps every PC single FPS ever made in the west
As for RTS you are right Nips never made one good enough to show up in my radar

Videogames can be art, but before being art they are a consumer poduct
Art is something that people create because they want to show the beauty of their work or the mastery of their craft at least real art, not that postmodernist shit kikes always try to push
Vidya on the other hand is made to put food on the table
It may be artsy, but it's a consummer product first and foremost

This may come as a surprise to a retard like yourself, but there are different types of shooters. Arena shooters like Quake, tactical shooters like Rainbow Six 3, casual run-and-gun shit like Call of Duty, and that's all just within FPS, not even looking at TPS games.
I do like Vanquish a lot, though.

try romance of the three kingdoms
also i completely agree with you. the games i consider art can be counted on one hand

...

Games are rule sets that define the player's interaction with systems. The art is important, but secondary. It's not essential to the game in the same way that the mechanics are.

well crafted game mechanics can also be considered art

As can code.

I disagree. Not everything that can be appreciated for its craftsmanship is art. I guess I'm not firmly against the idea of mechanics as art, it's just not something I'd considered before.

Can you blame him?
>West finally gains traction woth the 360 wich honestly speaking as a consle did absolutelly nothing wrong eccept for the RRD and begins taking over the industry
and why did Eastern Vidia become shit?
Because they Westernized themselves for shekkels
I get that there is a lot of jewery on both sides of the world fuckin it all up
but the overall decline and western dominacne of the industry began just at the same time
That can't be mere coincidence

What is and isn't art is wholly subjective, or at the very least depends on the majority deeming it as artistic. Why can't a well crafted game with polished gameplay not be considered art?

If a car can be appreciated for its aesthetics and engineering why can't a program be appreciated for the coding and functionality of it?

And where does the PC fit into that history? Because it has historically been mostly a Western thing, and was unaffected by the North American console market crash. It was also the platform where Western development was advancing and breaking new ground, until the mid-2000s or so. Nips had the MSX and such, but they never took off there like consoles did.

Yes, but a car isn't art. It serves a function, which is getting people from one place to another. Now, vidya doesn't really serve as a problem-solving tool in the way that a car does. But in general, I think of art as something that is crafted in order to be observed by others. And mechanics aren't observed–you engage with them, interact with them. In other words, art isn't just anything that's beautiful.
Keep in mind, I'm spitballing here. I'm open to your idea, I'm just not convinced yet.

Vanquish is great but it doesn't have shit on Starsiege Tribes

Why the fuck can't art be functional? Do you think all the famous churches and cathedrals, or palaces and bridges that we consider art today weren't functional in nature?

Yet many painters did not make art for others to observe, but purely as an expression of their inner "soul".

So dancing, playing an instrument or acting aren't art? Someone is actively enacting them. Not that something being art is determined by whether it is interactive or not.

PC were expensive as fuck back then
it was a niche market of games for tech nerds there was queality there but only because the market was niche and exclussive that there was no room for casuals shitting it all up with their large numbers and shit taste
As a gaming plataform PC did not become all that relevant to the industry until emulators started to show up and a lot more gamers began buying them as an investment
most of the industry's history was defined by consoles and games done for consoles and the eras in wich the nips dominated consoles were the most prolific in the industry
The west has always dominated PC but OC development was never that relevant to overall vidya, at least not until the PC market grew enough to acomodate casuals who we all know, ruin everything

fuck me i'm tiping like shit

The West has indie games while the east just has rip offs, console games and shovelware RPGs. You decide which one is better.

I think art can be attached to things that are functional, but I don't think that's the same. You could get the same function without any of the "art." If I carve a cool design on my hammer, it doesn't turn the hammer into art, does it?
Maybe it does, I'm getting less sure now.
Fine, but I could express my "inner soul" by flinging my shit around or saying nonsense words or doing any number of things that don't result in a beautiful piece of sensory information.
Not sure about the other two, but I'm a musician, and no, playing an instrument isn't art. It's a skill. The end result, the music, is the art.

At the end of the day, here are the two things I'm sure of:
1. Vidya doesn't have to be art in order to be good and valuable as a medium.
2. If the definition of art is purely personal and subjective, then I can just say it's not art if that's how I'm feeling that day, and it's just as valid as your view. That's why I don't like the subjective approach in general. It feels more like giving up on the debate than anything else.

I couldn't disagree more. Vidya started out on mainframes, and later on PCs. Consoles were a comparatively later development, and by their nature were building on what had come before.
Not to say I have a problem with consoles or anything like that, but the console industry was also kind of niche back then, too. Console vidya just went mainstream a few years before PC vidya did.

you might be right. if i think about one way, art usually involves whimsy and something like that. things that arent really necessary and your own unique take on things. but it can be hard to distinguish between beauty and art sometimes.

on the other hand, finding ways for different mechanics and such to work together may very well require a degree of creativity.

Oh, it definitely does.

yep, i kinda regreted that statement after posting it
I was a NES kid, only learned about previous consoles later in life
and back then i remeber PC gaming being that niche thing for older folk with money to buy it and brains to understand it, console games were a simpler market for the masses…
.
.
.
I just realised that NES kids like me who just wanted to stomp gombas used to be the casuals back then

Kids don't know anything, they get a pass for being casuals. Even adult casuals are fine. The problem is that there are too many of them, and that a lot of them, especially the ledditors, present themselves as being "teh hardcorez."

An exercise in ability to manipulate human emotions.

even if this is so, the ones responsible for this mess wont go anywhere. they will just be humbled a little bit until this kind of mess builds up momentum again, like the tide.

Where did these art cucks vome from?


Great job retard. Everything you listed is art, by which i mean it's art completely divorced from gameplay, the thing that defines games from other media. And gameplay isn't art.

aka not at remotely related to raw game mechanics. aka gameplay isn't art.

Ergo a game can contain art in the form of its assets, but it's not art itself if it specifically doesn't aim to be.

Are you retarded? Rpgs, rts, strategies, shooters, whole fucking genres were made on and for PC first.

RTS, FPS and P&C are the only generes i can think of that spawned first on PC
i hope your not talking about those Diablo like isometric hack'n slash with level grinding and item farming cus those are as much RPG as the Elder Scrolls and Fallout

Might & Magic
Wizardry
Ultima
Fallout 1 & 2

Guy, what do you think Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy ripped off to start off jrpgs?
Ultima and Wizardry.

Six million, you stupid faggot who will die with no impact on the human race whatsoever

The kind of incompetence you would expect from an artist alright.

oy

...

...

Still rather play nip shit then what we've been getting.

I just want another game like Viva Pinata, shit was maximum comfy.

This list's complete and utter lack of self-awareness coupled with its absolute self-absorption never fails to make me laugh.

I've always wondered about this myself. How come it's always weapons, is it because it would require for a lot of sprites for each individual armor/armor set?

As if MGS weren't the most cutscene ridden series, for example.

I would sum my objections to JRPGs in three words: less railroading, pls.

Well to use Dawn of Sorrow as an example, you can share the same character attack animation between weapons of the same class so it's not a lot of effort to make the weapon itself a unique graphic. However each unique costume would need to cover Soma's entire animation set, a lot more work. It's generally only something you want to do if the amount of costumes is low, or if you're doing indieshit graphics with fuck-all animation like Terraria.

With 3D, well, if Senran games can have the dress-up room and other random animation details then anything can.

Get fucked mate.

These replies are deflection posted by shills meant to stifle the western industry from overcoming its slump.

Who would pay for that what you are implying?

Modern anime is nothin but a meme. Nobody watches it, nobody knows anything about it, everything about it is made up.


This is an amazing claim even by the standards of today's hyperbolic hatred of nearly everything.

It's a ludicrous claim to be sure, but since any shills coming here would likely be shilling western games and thus shitting on whatever they aren't selling I could see them shitting on Japanese games in general too

I've been thinking about the "art argument" thing.
You can call games rule sets, and that's true, but only in the abstract. In reality, those abstract systems are conveyed through concrete visual and aural elements, which are undeniably art.
So I think the most accurate statement would be to say that video games require art, or contain art as an essential component.

The fans suck (yes, you reading this), the companies suck (yes, I liked the MGS3 pachslot), everything great has already been made (so much so that I find myself going back to 20-30 year old games and having more fun), and anything else that comes out it just trying to live up to granddad (albiet stupider, easier and geared to an equally simple minded audience) or trying to be Hollyjew; the only way to change shit is to either get into making games and make something, boycott AAA companies and/or support companies that you like; not bitching about how the West sucks and Japan is better on some fucking forum for fat anime nerds that smell like cheese.

Aren't real FPSs or RTSs basically dead at this point anyway.

Yeah, ok OP.

A skill/craft taken to high enough levels to be aesthetically pleasing.

kys

I will never get this fucking mentality. If your customers aren't buying your game, can it be any more clear that you aren't doing something right? The amount of people who defended Tameem at the time is still incredible to me. I wonder how many thousands of dollars were spent on Tameem damage control.

Some of my favourite games of all time are western, but I'd be crazy to deny that Japanese games aren't just better in general. I'd have to say at least 80% of all time classic video games are Japanese.

That has to be satire. Especially when it says "this local genre catering to local people and a non-niche market is selling well, so JRPGs are shit."

It's either satire or written by someone who has only played one JRPG in their lifetime.

Western games are basically stifled by corporate mindset of "profit above all else" where they only put the minimum amount of time possible to make a game and market it like mad so people buy the damn thing.

The decline of video game quality is, sadly, because of normalfags with low to zero standards. If the market wasn't filled with such casual faggots who take no shit from publishers or big corps, who don't buy games with buggy launches and have good consumer etiquette, Video Games or specifically, Triple-A game development, wouldn't be such a shitshow where they churn out fifty mediocre games and manage to make one really good one.

Any studio that have corporate interests gripping them by the ballsacks are a lost cause. I would say the indie or double-A scene will save video games but that's probably not the case because the Independent gaming scene are filled with cuckolds who lynch anyone who commits wrongthink.

Japan has their own corporate interests but gaming in Japan is still a bit niche so the people buying games have pretty high standards or at least decent consumer etiquette. I'm pretty sure they have their own slew of shit games as well but we probably don't see it cause we're westerners. Finding independently made games from Japan is pretty rare.

My point is…
The consumerbase has widened to the point that the people with bad consumer habits outnumber those who have high standards for their video games. People by Cawadooty by the droves so we get more shitty Call of Duty games. People excuse Bethesda for their shitty releases so they never bother to actually bugfix their games before launch.

If a consumerbase is cancer, the quality of the video games targeting that consumerbase will be equivalent to how cancerous the consumerbase is.

Reminder that CoD sells just as well in Japan as it does in the states.

Point taken.

Just came in to call OP a fag

Absolutely.
Like criticizing anime, you can't criticize nip games.
Especially Persona.

inb4 goon

Stop playing shooters, console games and action rpgs, and you will see that western developers are not really that bad.

Are you implying the same old copy paste J"RPG"s that Japan pumps out are actually good?

Is this satire?

It's not a shit meme. It's the truth. The problem is western society (kikes) have removed all standards for art.

Based on what metric? Near A Tomato has outsold every CoD game since BO2 in Japan.

I think you mean AAA games user, there are plenty of great western games.

What is pleasing about The Scream painted by Edvard Munch?

"we" have to address, as if Holla Forums was anything more than a couple thousands of middle-class media-consuming faggots. what are you gonna address exactly? you have no money, you own no videogame companies or media monopolies, all you can do is vote with your wallet, and that certainly is irrelevant when there is millions of retarded conformist consumers buying mass effect autismeda and Transdogs.

this thread seems pretty pointless, as in, "iterative" pointless, not offtopic.

Its all an thinly veiled weeabo thread.

Factually, objectively, blatantly false.

No its not you retarded weeb CoD has peaked top seller in Japan several times.
Also many nip devs view Skryim as one of their favorite games.

But please go one sage some more, maybe report me for not having shit taste, but Nips are no different then fat Americans.

CoD does not sell as many copies in Japan as it does in the US. I'm sure you're going to try to say that you meant something else now.
Also, if you had actually read the thread, you'd see that all my posts were saged.

But as many copies PER CAPITA as in the US.

Where are the proofs?

Except people do that all the time, and it's the people who defend anime and Japanese games who regularly get shit on. Even anime communities in the West are fundamentally anti-anime.

There's no such thing as a decent FPS, and the only good RTS I've ever seen was The Legendary Ogre Battle.

Fight me.

Timesplitters is terribly overrated.

Weebs in a nutshell.

Don't you lump me in with that faggot.

Too late.

First Pooper FPS maybe…

vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Call of Duty&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

If you can find what North America means in that list, then be my guest.

That's .0105 copies per capita.
That's .0029 copies per capita.
Which means that, per capita, Call of Duty sold over three times as well in North America as it did in Japan.
Also,
Now fuck off.

fucking hentai anime shit
i've tried fapping to it, but my eyes always end up staring at the knife-sharp chin
i could likely quite literally cut skin with how retardadly pointed their chins are
how do you guys do it? do you just not look at the face? are you just not bother by it? i just don't get it. please tell me how you people manage to fap to those flat mutated-looking faces. i can fap to planes, i can fap to fallout ghouls, but i just can't fap to hentai

pretty much. the sameface draws attention away so you can fully appreciate the female form. At least for me

Anyone bumping this garbage needs to have a look at his life.

Try Black Ops II first.

14,090,000 copies in North America, for a per capita sales volume of .0248.
720,000 copies in Japan, for a per capita sales volume of .0057.
So it sold over four times as well in North America as it did in Japan. Admit that you're wrong.

Really?

Really.
4.99 million on PS3.
8.25 million on Xbox 360
650,000 on PC.
200,000 on Wii U.

i don't see the appeal of AA japanese games the same way i don't see the appeal of AAA western games. i really do only play older games so yeah i don't give a fuck if games "grow". really when is the last time japan has even shit out a good game? umihara kawase shun? sayonara umihara kawase has stiff controls, bad graphics, casualized (lives system tossed). the only positive aspect of it is a removal of spawning enemies which weren't even that big a deal but i consider an improvement. it is a downgrade from shun in every other way. maybe best party title can go to 100 percent orange juice? i don't really consider that a game. every single japanese series has this extreme downfall in quality even something as simple as fucking mario, and most series get buried under the rug specifically to make more money milking the game's established name with a fuckload of spinoffs, how is your castlevania pachinko machine? i somehow end up playing more western games, probably because most games are western games and it is retarded to compare japan to the entire "western" industry

Not really, that only happens if you count kusoge like Call of Guitar Theft Madden of Warcraft. Pretty much everything worth playing from the past 15 years from Super Robot Wars to Sekaiju no MeiQ to Monster Hunter to Gundam Breaker is Japanese.

Is that why you faggots scream for moderation anytime someone tell's you you're moe blob shit of the month is garbage?

I detest Twilight for being tween sclick bait, I detest weebs for the same reason with their shit animes.

Like tits and ass is great, we can all enjoy watching some 2d tits and ass together, but I want story, plot, character development, not just cute grills doing cute grill things, or titty dragons.

Shit games are still games. The West releases far more games than Japan. Which makes sense, given that "the West" encompasses many countries and hundreds of millions of people.

Monster Hunter has become shit you moron. Its suffering from the same problems that western games suffer from.
Same with SMT games.
Same with nintendo games, same with Sony.

There is not some magical quality of nips that prevent them from being dumb piss poor consumers like Americans.
CoD sells very well in Japan every year.
Nips pay somewhere to 10-20 dollars for a jelly burger set which gets you a tiny fucking candy burger that you can make, all for the low price of the equivalent of $12 american dollars!

I reject that.

If you're talking about Cross and Double Cross, that's a side team project with none of the same staff working on it. It's highly unlikely 5 will incorporate shit like Styles or Hunting Skills. Now, whether 5 itself will be any good or not remains to be seen obviously, but I doubt you'll see a lot of the shit that plagued the Cross games in it.


The MegaTen franchise has been pretty spotty lately yeah.


Oh absolutely not, there's plenty of idiots here who buy into garbage like Kingdom Hearts and Metal Gear, and on the anime side of things Code Geass is getting a third season while Shin Mazinger has been left off on a cliffhanger for almost a decade. That said, when it comes to video games at least, I'd say at least 90% of games worth playing in the 21st century have been of Japanese origin.

Not really a well-thought-out position.

It's not exactly meaningful to include garbage like Madden or CoD in a discussion about video games is my point. They might as well not even exist for how little importance they have to a discussion of fun and enjoyable video games.

im not a fan of any of those games

These are all just different ways of saying, "I don't like them, so they're not games."

Then where do you draw the line? Visual novels? Cell phone programs? Interactive DVD menus? Choose Your Own Adventure books?

Monster hunter has been slowly declining since Tri, most people here though are under 20, so their first experience with the series was Tri.

Just a few off the top of my head.

They're both videogames regardless at how casaulized they are.
The hatred of CoD wasn't the game itself but how other games would mimic CoD ruining what made them unique.

Also idk if Madden still has it but there used to be a carreer mode where it became like a sports RPG.
Same with UFC 2010 or 2011, it was like Monster Rancher except with some nigger, twink or burger.

A video game:
1. Is conveyed visually.
2. Involves interaction with the player.
3. Has a fail state.

Started with 2nd G, and while in some ways I agree that 4 was a step down from 3, in other ways it improved, and I like that they're still trying to experiment with things. I'm very curious to see what 5 will yield.

Also, while I can respect some of the titles listed there, you're really stretching if you're including shit like GTA, Skating games, and Far Cry.

Again though, they're hardly meaningful. They exist, but so what? There's no reason to play them.


I'm aware, hence why CoD is a useful shorthand for the entire modern Doomclone genre.

This is another good reason to not include CoD type games, since you can't actually lose due to them respawning you a few steps back anytime you run out of your infinite health.

And your pretty new if you think San Andreas isn't deservedly lauded here.
Same with Tony Hawk and Far Cry.

Nigga what?
I bet you think Reccetear is the pinnacle of weeb anime game design, but if you fail to pay back your loan you just start the month over with all your money and items.

In CoD they use checkpoints, which many games throughout history have used.
I swear we are being swarmed with reddit faggots from some reddit /a/ equivalent.

That is a fail state, since you have to start from the last checkpoint.

The only people who would defend this garbage are children who haven't played video games before.


Usually with some form of limitation though, be it limited lives, or continues.


The irony here is staggering.

Standards sure have fallen, I remember when if you failed, you had to start from the beginning of the fucking game.

So you? You're the one here exposing just how new and young you are.
Oh wow when was this a standard practice of games? You sure you're not desperately trying to act older then you actually are?

Check points go all the way back to arcade games, most simulation games from the 90s had you save whenever you want.
Lurk moar, stop doubling down, its obvious you're not from here.

Arcade games also wanted you to keep chucking coins in.


Not really, the original Fire Emblems and SRWs only let you save after clearing a map, midpoint saves became a thing later on.


All this projection is fucking hilarious.

You expect me to read all that nonsense? Videogames are art and there's nothing that you can do about that

All those games you named are older than Vanquish.

How is that relevant?

And then when the home version came to console, they kept the checkpoint system.
Like with Rampage and gauntlet.
You think those are simulation games?
Wew lad. You don't even have your genres correct.

Yeah your behavior is what outs you.

Admittedly never played the home versions of Rampage or Gauntlet, but I remember most games just giving you a handful of continues and once those ran out, it was game over and you were back to square 1.


The fuck are you on about? That genre has been "Simulation RPG" forever, even in the commercial for the original Fire Emblem they call it "a quite difficult simulation."


I'm plenty knowledgeable about the board, regardless of what kusoge you kids try to spam us with.

You're a fucking moron.


At what point did I say that?

Most games used a checkpoint system for many reasons, one of which was you had to have memory seperate or lacked saves, so a checkpoint allowed you to lose and not need to go to the last save as long as you left the game playing.

Its so alien to me anyone who is trying to pass off themselves as someone born in the 90's is denying the frequency of games that used a checkpoint system.

Then you along with whoever calls fire emblem a "simulation" is a fucking retard.
Its a tactical turn based game with RPG elements.
None of it simulates anything, are you fucking dumb.

Simulations are open ended games with sandbox elements that try to SIMULATE something in its entirety.

Again stop posting, you don't have to leave but you're going to have a difficult time here if you just double down when you are openly retarded.

Are you implying that Japan is somehow better off? The only genre they excel at are VNs and heavily story driven games. Everything else is mediocre at best. Combat is usually either JRPG turn based shit (the worst combat system known to mankind) or aRPG button masher like in Nier. Gameplay almost always revolves around fucking grinding. The only advantage Japan has over western games is that instead of SJWs, they make waifus, but the games are still garbage.

I get that you don't like the fighting game genre, but that's something the Japanese excel at.

All of Japan considers them "simulation RPGs", that's what SRPG means: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_role-playing_game
Though the guy you're talking to should have known that's not what you meant when you said "simulation games".

Maybe you're right and I'm just not into the genres they're good at. I'm just tired of seeing everyone praise Japan as the savior of gaming, then looking up their games, and finding little or no GSGs, cRPGs or even simulators

And as long as you didn't run out of lives/continues, in which case you would start from the beginning again.


When did I ever claim to be underage? You're the one projecting that image onto me for whatever reason.


So, the industry? Because I'm looking at the back of the box for Super Robot Wars BX right now and in the genre box it pretty clearly says シミュレーションRPG. As for Fire Emblem, well, you can hear it for yourself in vid related. The genre is called "Simulation RPG," and has been for decades.


Not sure what that genre is called, never bothered with sandbox shit.


And again, you need to stop projecting so hard.

A lot of those don't get translated. The Nobunaga's Ambition strategy series went on for a long time and barely ever got translated. The Falcom thread always bitches about how a ton of that company's stuff never came over here. King's Field only became known around here because people found about From Software made it. A lot of stuff just never reaches Western eyes (the same is probably true the other way around).

Couldn't think of anything else that's ever been described as simulation, but again, I don't play sandbox crap.

In some games, in many others they make the challenges for the checkpoints long so being set back was normal.
And other games had saves so running out of lives reverted you to the chapter beginning not all the way at the start of the game.

You're knowledge of the 90s and early 00s is what makes me believe you're underage.

Sandbox shit? Nigger sandbox is one of the best game forms.

No one is projecting nigger, this is how it works here. You learn how to not out yourself as a newfaggot and you don't have to deal with people claiming your new (as often).

At this point I HOPE you're 16-20 because if your 28+ you're a fucking retard.

The Sims counts, I think. So does Sim Ant and Sim Tower. Sim City. Pretty much any game with "Sim" or "Simulator" in the name. It's not all sandbox crap, but most of it is. Some of it is quite good. A lot of them, like Forklift Simulator and some flight sims, are used as a first step in job training.

...

I never thought of Dwarf Fortress as a sim game, but I suppose it fits into that category that much of anything else. It's probably more a life and management sim than anything else now that I think about it. I never really thought about it in terms of any kind of genre.

Toady refers to it as a simulation game.

I've demonstrated more knowledge of it than you have though.


Are you insane? Sandboxes are empty wastelands made by developers who are too lazy or untalented to make interesting and challenging games. It's on the same level as multiplayer-centric garbage.


You really ought to be taking your own advice here.


Only one of those I'm familiar with is SimCity, which I think was referred to as an SLG.

Again, you need to take your own advice about not outing yourself.

How making the claim that 90% of all worthy games came from the East during the 00s?

Confusing sandbox/with openworld

Wew lad and you claim your more knowledgeable?

Not knowing the person who created Dwarf Fort is named Toady

Yeah again case and point.
THIS FAGGOT THINK TOADY IS A TRIPFAG!

You must be fucking joking.

You're the one who claimed that simulation games always used midpoint saves back in the '90s, and didn't even know what genre that was.


I'm not though. There is admittedly a lot of overlap between the two, but it is a valid criticism of both concepts.


While I've heard of the game in question, I have never cared enough about it to bother learning minor details about it.


There was a namefag (don't recall if he used a tripcode or not, but doesn't make a difference really) who went by that name for a while. Annoying fucker, like all of his kind.

...

Who decides that? You or an entire council of weebs?
Literally who

I'd take a council of weebs over you tbh famalam

CD Projeckt red makes the best WESTERN action RPG FOR NOW.

Keyword: WESTERN and right now.

Shut your whore mouth.

No WESTERN RPG ever had satisfying combat like jap RPG.

I went there just to try and find the most angering thing I could, and I found it

...

Yes, kick everything the game.

you might have a point with Severance: Blade of Darkness.

Are you implying that's not satisfying?

It's not satisfying to kick everything to obvious trap placement everywhere, no.

...

No, just no, that game plays like fucking offline MMO.

...

Then you have no idea what you're talking about.

Excuse me?

Also, the only Japanese RPGs with good combat are the Soulsborne games.

And SMT, Persona, Shadow Hearts, FFIV, Legend of Dragoon, various Tales of, Wild Arms….

Even fucking Earthbounds has satisfying combat.

Yeah, no.

Okay?

...

Oh, you're a Nip?

We're going through an age of shit right now and we have to just deal with it. If you think you have what it takes to make a good game then go and take a shot at it.

I am, though as much as that I meant those who are foreigners to Holla Forums, like Goons/Redditors.

No we scream for moderation when you shitpost and hijack threads and have meltdowns because someone mentioned something related to Japan.

This doesn't exist.

These don't exist.

This doesn't exist.

Kill yourself you fucking dumbshit.

I am so fucking sick of every fucking thread I now go to devolving into some normalfag spouting inane fucking drivel. Fucking every thread is like this now. Fucking fuck christ shit fuck.

lmao, typical weeb who doesn't know shit

There's no implication, they aren't and if you think they are you're wrong.

Hey, OP! Here's an idea: don't play shite (mostly mainstream, AAA titles, games and go for the few, but great games, you cumgurgling weeb.

Everyone knows that even jap AAA titles are much more sophisticated and simply better than their western counterparts, just look at finalestest fantasie

i dont know it looks like shit but it doesnt have any meaning either

ugh…


Just because you can't grasp the meaning behind something doesn't mean it isn't there.