Why is MGS more popular when the Splinter Cell trilogy has always been superior?

A big reason is that Metal Gear Solid had much deeper roots in gaming at the time. Even setting aside the earlier 2D games, MGS had two highly influential, unique, and well received games out before Splinter Cell was even known about. And don't forget, Splinter Cell was originally Xbox exclusive, which meant that far fewer people could play it at the time.

Also the MGS games had that bizarro Hollywood style that never made it into gaming before, which generated a huge amount of conversation. Splinter Cell has some pretty bland storytelling, setpieces, and environmental design compared to MGS, and that goes a long way in terms of how much people care about the respective series. I think that a fair amount of the reason that they went down the more action-heavy setipece-driven route in Conviction and Blacklist was due to MGS trouncing SC in an important area that SC didn't really try to compete in before.

Why?

That's what I meant.

SC and MGS aren't the same types of games.
SC are stealth games, while MGS is one of the founding games in the "Interactive movie genre", with a few easy stealth segments to break it up while you can easily go action-hero mode anyways.

MGS is easier to the point where it's barely a stealth game and did enough weird shit, good or bad, that it was able to stand out in a year overflowing with good games. Splinter Cell does it's job very well, but you have to git gud to enjoy stealth games and realistic military games are really common. Combining that genre with batshit insane anime really helped MGS.

It's the defining proof that gaming isn't just an pure interactive medium.

Story and presentation matter.

Half-Life showed us that you don't need cutscenes to tell an engaging story.

Being able to move around during the cutscene doesn't make it any better.

It's a normal thing for shit products to be more popular.

it didn't date well and also it is missing a lot of stealth features pandora and chaos built ahead with. double agent was stupid right up until I got to tell lambert the mission was over.

I do like the self aware joke about 3 alarms on the cargo boat.

I shoudl clarify. double agent gameplay was ok, a little tweaked but ok, the story was crap…..maybe I need to replay it.

I think Pandora's Tomorrow is worse than Splinter Cell. Splinter Cell and Pandora Tomorrow are on the same engine so I don't get how you can say one didn't age well and the other did. I could understand if you were arguing for people to only try Chaos Theory but pushing for Pandora Tomorrow is a weird choice given it was always the black sheep.

Pandora Tommorrow had some really good levels. Remember the train?

I sure hope I remember it, I just played through the whole series on Xbox from Splinter Cell to Double Agent. Splinter Cell had some really good levels too. Pandora Tomorrow was Ubisoft Shanghi, they really don't understand what a stealth game is. I think you should replay Splinter Cell again, it's better than you're giving it credit and the only feature Pandora Tomorrow has over it is whistling.

but it had more involved with stealth. like the voice on the mic thing. Not useful but it was a step up. obviously chaos is top level that doesn't even need debating. Pandora just had more than the first.

SC aged really well actually, you're full of shit.
I find it more enjoyable than Chaos Theory.

The only problem is some forced scripted action sequences, but the Kalinatek, CIA headquarters and Chinese embassy missions are amazing.

It had literally one thing, the ability to whistle/talk loudly in a mic. That's it. Other than that it was built wholly on Splinter Cell's engine. Again: I know exactly the difference between the two, I just played them last week.

I'm not that user, I'm just saying Pandora had its moments

Ironically MGS ended up being influenced by Splinter Cell with MGSV being a poor immitation

literally how?

Sure, I'm not saying PT is a bad game, still one of the Splinter Cells worth playing, but again I see it as the black sheep of the first four (of which it was the only one made by Ubisoft Shanghi who later went on to make the Next Gen version of Double Agent).

Sam doesn't like a malnourished ghost.

And knocking people out > knife

maybe on a single player only basis PT was considered bad but I never heard that. Local co-op with my bros or friends was great. yelling nigger at the guards was fun too. slamming doors on each other.. good shit.

what? you always got more points for non lethal.

You can argue the game play is better in some splinter cell games, but the story telling, cinematography of the cut scenes, and character development of the MGS series is in a league of its own.

Can we take a moment and talk about how they ruined the series by making it focus on Sam's personal drama with the death of Sarah? They could have just kept the formula from the first 3 games going strong, maybe retire Fisher and have one of the co-op guys take over (but have Fisher take over for Lambert to keep Ironside's voice). Fuck they could have even had Sarah be the next Splinter Cell and tried to pull in the SJW crowd. Instead they focused on Sam when Sam was just meant to be some vet guy and purely background to the interesting political events in which he was entangled.

MGS should have been movies.

Because Splinter Cell shat the bed multiple times trying to become a discount action game to ape MGS instead of doing its own thing.

There was no Local co-op in PT.

only there was…

system link nigguh.

Nope. There was versus, but Local Co-op didn't become a thing in the series until Chaos Theory

You have no idea what you were talking about, unless you're talking about versus. There was absolutely no co-op campaign in PT.

As opposed to Metal Gear's 0 games worth playing?

Mgs had better girls, and better overall story, mainly in the beginning, hell my first time fapping was to Naomi Campbell's voice…

oh yeah, that's exactly why it sucks.

Basically, that and the plot wasn't great, and the game was buggy in spots. Some good levels but something about it just wasn't as compelling. And then Chaos Theory came out and everyone instantly forgot about everything except the train level (and maybe the television station level). I will say that Pandora Tomorrow is where the series started to do multiple paths to the objective, but the concept wasn't perfected until Chaos Theory.

Do you want to tell us something, user?

Weebs

Because casual games are always more famous. Splinter Cell also got it's ground on PC and Xbox, very powerful platforms that allowed for more complicated games.
I do wonder how MGS 6 will end up, though. Konami has to not fuck it up.

I can see it now:

Might be less bad than 5, since someone competent who understands the boundaries he can and cannot cross when it comes the budget and time will lead the team.
I never liked Kojima, he mixed serious and silly pretty poorly. From what I know most of the old talent from the MGS team is still at Konami.

Half-Life is full of unskippable cutscenes.

It did?

Is this supposed to be bait?

literally memes

Half-Life has you mosing around a room while people talk to you about some bullshit except the only notable time this happens is the first 30 minutes but the rest of game barely has any and they're short, in Half-Life 2 it's worse because it's spread out through the game and episodes.

Are you one of those retards who think sections where you can do literally nothing but follow NPCs are not glorified cutscenes for an arbitrary reason?

That shit was fun, I played Curtains Down a shitload of times.

No, now answer the question.

metal gear solid is a good game with very interesting story moments that still stand out as unique. splinter cell is a stealth game.

Naw.

yeah, go to bed now PC boy

Dang, he got me, if only mgs were playable on PC.

it is a console game in spirit, through and through, splinter cell also has no personality

It shows, believe me.

right? it's much better too. A game that polished just could never exist on the PC at the time, really broke boundaries.

Splinter Cell has more features, but the quality at which each feature is implemented is much higher in the MGS series.

MGS has more memes and lol so random

Also it was made by Japan

Because the only great game in the series is Chaos Theory and that's the truth.

In SC1 the game was trying to find its groove. The concept was interesting but it was linearity hell, and once the game was turning out good (CIA mission) you get greeted with "lol forced action" missions.

Pandora tomorrow I stopped playing after Jerusalem. The game seemed uninspired (partly because it was made by Chinese) and all the stealth was based on "lol shoot lights" which was lame

Chaos Theory is the only masterpiece in the series. And then Ubi proceed to shit the bed.

MGS is an easy to play action game and one of the predecessors to the movie-like genre. It was also available for sonyniggers who were too poor to afford an xbox or a PC. Many people play it simply because of memes too.

Reminder that the OG Xbox version of Double Agent is the best one and the PC/360 version is a much shittier version. Same for the XB/PC version of Chaos Theory.

Weeaboo, sony fanboys, people who want movies instead of games, etc. Also I doubt splinter cell is superior to MGS. They're both pretty garbage when compared to something like Thief.

Simple. Nips will drain an IP slowly. The west drains their IP fast due to jewish tendencies. Therefore it would make sense that a nip IP would die slower than a western IP.

Tom Clancey is boring drab shit that doesn't even have robots.

Borderlands 2 has robots, what are you trying to say? :^)

this user knows what's up

This is probably the biggest one by far. The only thing that is more overhyped than MGS is shit like Skyrim.

The same reason that Thief is more popular when Styx is the superior series: Memes.

Borderlands honestly has a more interesting set up than anything Tom Clancey was ever attached to. Shame about that execution.

XBOX didn't exist back when MGS came out and MGS had a (shitty) PC port and the PC remained a niche platform until The Sims came out. MGS2 also had both XBOX and PC ports.

God-tier bait user.

Now you are just being contrarian for the sake of it. No sane person on Holla Forums would defend memelands unless they have an alternative motive as to why they are defending a cuck's game.

It's a thread bashing MGS. You know it's gunna be full of fags from /a/ that don't even play games baiting.

What does an anime board has to do with this?

I would say it's just a bunch of antisony anons shitting on msg because it's tied to sony despite the fact it began before the fucking nes. Either way, bias is rampant here and good luck getting anyone to admit that.

Nothing wrong with a future wild west setting and a distinctive artstyle. It grabs me a lot more than drab military guys doing drab military things does.

splinter cell is/was too linear to be fun. i wish it was more like rainbow six where it let me choose how i invade the building instead the entire thing felt scripted.

Explains all the people who hate on bloodborne.

Technically no, the MSX2 game came out in 1987 iirc.

because splinter cell wasn't made by a bunch of nippon ichi people

because MGS never had an entry that ruined the entire series.

how in hell is the PC version of Chaos Theory "much shittier" than Xbox? it's the same game with HD graphics

You lack reading comprehension.

Oh fuck, you are right. The only big thing I remember is that the msx version was ported to the nes later on. I was a poorfag and had a used atari at the time.

The MSX version never got a port to the NES, the NES game is completely different and dumbed down and it doesn't even lets you fight Metal Gear. Kojima and his team didn't have any involvement and it shows, just like Snake's Revenge.

NANOMACHINES

Neat. All I knew was that it made it to the NES.
I'm more of a VR missions kind of guy but I remember fucking enjoying Splinter Cell when my friend introduced it to me back in high school. It's a shame what both IPs have turned into if you think about it.

I think extending it beyond the 2v2 fucked it.
I understand all the reasons for them to go away from it's style for so long, only to bring it back as a shell of itself.
could be said about most games, that's why there are rating systems
I would argue that it could be balanced slightly with great level/objective design.
but if the objectives the mercs have to defend make them spread too thin, you could in theory have 4 spies vs 1-2 mercs in an area of the levels.

I miss the 2v2 spies mercs so bad, but it seems like there are so few others interested in such a small online interactions.
Everything has seems to have gone 'bigger is better, more is fun-er, we want the e-sport audience'
I suppose to only exception these days are those 1 vs X 'horror' games.
Those seem to completely lack engaging gameplay to me though.

Splinter Cell wasn't good until the sequel, when they gave you a knife.

...

Bastards eliminated the claptraps.

I loved those little guys.

It had the legacy of MG1 & 2 behind it (which were credited for "creating" the stealth genre), had a creator that was launched into stardom (how many people have you met know who Florent Emilio Siri is?), and was a flagship PlayStation series when the brand was at its highest (despite MGS1 & 2 being multiplatform). It's rather simple.

Why cant splinter cell autists exist without attacking more influential and more recognized games? Especially the one it ripped off?

I enjoyed it as well, especially the splitscreen coop and certain missions. But I have to say, they really fucked up when they tried make it a mainstream game by introducing a gears of war mechanic, unlockable content and kill streaks. They story isn't worth mentioning. The series became trash with conviction.

Splinter Cell doesn't have highschool-level philosophy for smart gamers to feel smart.

Now THAT would have been a shitshow.

Cancerous weebs and the fact that Metal Gear got better with Phatom Pain while Splinter Cell turned to garbage after Double Agent

...

If this game had one more act you retards would wank over it everyday

Am I the only one that thinks MGS has a total trash story that is written like anime. The story is full of plot holes, the characters except a few don't really go in deepness, stupid names seem to be the norm, the individual parts of the story are scattered around and long cutscenes don't help either. What started as an infiltration mission in a nuclear waste disposal facility or HQ of some rogue mercenaries if you take the MGS on MSX into account, turned soon out to be ninjas, clones, cyborgs, mutants, robots, cripples, foreigners, dinosaurs, patriotsnanomachines and stupid lovestories. I think MGS4 was story wise the best, because the game draw a final conclusion, it was about an old man, that knew that he was going to die and tried to make his peace with the world by taking on a final mission. The stories of SC were always the simple american hero tries to stop some russian/middle eastern terror cell etc. But atleast they made sense and were not cluttered all over the place, but you don't feel very attached to the characters like I did with Big Boss/Punished Snake or Old Snake. Also SC are less autistic.

Wut ?

The engine and gameplay was amazing. It was everything else that came with it that turned it into shit.

MGS1 & 2 both didn't come out for other platforms until at least a year or two after their initial release (and then in the case of MGS1 it only got a PC port). You can call it multi-plat, but that's a bit disingenuous as when it was first released it was exclusive.

I liked it a lot, but only in right way (hardest difficulty, non lethal)

mediocre gameplay
horrible gameplay and retarded animu 007 story
literally a movie
decent gameplay but rushed story ending

Only some braindead weebtard wouldnt agree that PP is the best Metal Gear game

Metal Gear Solid is better because In Metal Gear Solid 1 you play as Solid Snake, a genetically cloned super-soilder as he infiltrates Shadow Moses a remote military compound now under the control of terrorist super-cell unit called Foxhound. The terrorists all have super-powers because they were genetically enhanced with top secret nanomachines, Snake uses his own nanomachines to rescue Darpa chief but then master chiefs nanomachines make him have a heart attack. Then Ninja Gayden kills everyone and snake has to shoot at him so that he will reveal his true self.

It turns out octogon was the ninja all the time, he reveals that he is a gay anime guy and he only built metal gear as part of his show-stopping cosplay. *theyre gona put a dismantled nuclear missile into metal gears missile module ? - wrong they're using metal gear as peace-walker to nuclear strike its own self in order to reverse reality. By doing this they can create an infinite amount of metal gears and sell them all for one million dollars.

Then Solid Snake gets captured by Liquid Snake. He reveals that they are twin snakes created from the same nanomachines as Mega Snake. Snake kicks Liquids head off and parachutes into the secret room where he confronts the legendary super-soilder Revolver Ocelot. Known for his legendary skill with the desert eagle gun. They both shoot each other 100 times until ocelots arm gets shot off and he backflips into the pacific ocean and swims back to australia with one arm.

Turns out everything i said was fake and staged.Liquid Snake who is actually dead, is actually a spy for the pentagon. Snake was double-crossed by his own country into being a triple agent for the Patroits.

Even though nobody is who they are anymore you have to have a fight to death with Liquid, luickly since his body is made out of water he slips off of metal gear and dies into hell.

In splinter cell you play as some faggot with NVGs.

No thanks.

Someone hasn't played MG or MG2. MGS isn't really much more spectacular than MG2 (especially since it rehashes a lot of its story).
You definitely haven't played it.
In what fucking world do people think MGS is somehow more scattered and all over the place than MGS4? And somehow long cutscenes are a problem for MGS but not for MGS4? Have you played any fucking Metal Gear game?

Sam Fisher is a better character than Snake, if you arent too slow to keep up with the story

Now im 100% sure you fags played that game using the slow-mo, qtes and that stealht suit that removes all the stealth from the game. like the goddamn casuals you are.
If you dont use that shit, the game is FAR more hardcore that any other Metal Gear.

If you need to abstain from using mechanics to make the game properly challenging, it's not designed well.

Here, this is for (You) son. Me and your mother are proud of you but it would be nice if you maybe could get a job, just saying haha don't yell at your mother again, they didn't have more hotpockets at Walmart.

every fucking game nowadays has this shit, you are either retarded or just a casual weeb in denial

this kind of projection out of nowhere speaks loudly about you

MGS 1, 2, & 3 (the only MGS games that matter) have good boss fights. That's the thing that really makes them worth playing.

Stop hitting your mother son

And it's shit in every game that has it. I already don't trust devs enough to design and balance their games with just one difficulty setting, why should I trust them to balance them for a whole slew of modes with "optional" challenge settings?

so you just use the crutches the devs make for casuals, and blame them for that

Lmao

I've played MGS1, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain. Unfortunately I didn't play Peace Walker and the MSX versions. And I didn't say that the games on their own are scattered, the whole time line is in total disorder.

The resukt is that you got an order like this
3-5-4-6-1-2 and every game is basically a prequel.
You didn't really read my comment.

Pretty sure that 4 goes after 2

Download PPSSPP and play Monster Gear Hunter Solid.
It's an OK game.

Well I enjoyed MGS3 the most, but TPP and Ground Zeroes weren't bad either. But I think anyway that Splinter Cell is better.

user, that's not how it worked. The order is S3-PW-S5-MG-2-MGS-S2-S4

That wasn't my point. I know that, but I tried to show how the game story is in total disorder by release.

pls watch

That's cool and all user, and you're not wrong that the release order is a mess, but there was no reason to put 4 in the wrong place. I put everything in the right place and it actually looks like MORE of a mess than what you posted. Stick to the facts, man.

People here would usually call you autistic for caring about the position of two digits in something that is anyway not meant to be factual.
1-2-4-3-5-6 pls tell me again how I'm wrong :-^)

Nice backtracking. And of course the series should be played in release order, that wasn't the point you were trying to make.

Well I didn't play them in that order. I played them by order they were released, which makes sense.

I was never trying to say that was the order they should be played in. Did you get confused?

Please be bait.

And if we we're talking about movies that might count for something. But being that video GAMES are driven by GAME PLAY, Splinter Cell is objectively better.

Guess those millions of copies of Doom sold never happened.

user, I've realized that people don't really like stealth games. That's why they cherish boss fights and cinematics, and think of the normal "gameplay" as a series of boring segments to be trudged until the next cinematic. That's why MGS is the only insanely popular series of its genre

Doom came out on everything back then.

Yeah, I'm sure the Jaguar and 32x versions of the game are what sold so well.

There was also a SNES port but the success of one or two games doesn-'t change the fact that it was a niche platform (especially in America)

MGS isn't a stealth game and never claimed to be. If we're comparing things that don't warrant comparison, Hitman is better than Splinter Cell, since it has at least two good games compared to SC's one.

The SNES port didn't come out until late 1995. To give you an idea how late that is in the system's life: the Playstation version came out a few months later.

Oh, and to clarify, Doom came out in 1993.

Splinter Cell has four good games. Splinter Cell, Pandora Tomorrow, Chaos Theory, and I pity anyone who hasn't played Double Agent Version 2.

Any game with optional casualizations is shit. Just like Mass Effect, just like MGS5, just like Hitman Absolution. Most of these games are built around casualization and when turning them off all they reveal is how broken the games are. Kill yourself.

And by 1994 it was a certified hit. Stop revising history and running your mouth.

I think I actually hate HL2's pseudo-cutscenes more than normal cutscenes because you can't skip the former (as far as I remember, anyway).

MGS had philosophical and sociopolitical concepts explored through stupid anime bullshit(that appeals to dickloads of autists) with a thin veneer of the tacticool military stuff(that appeals to dickloads of other people), and brought with it enough memes to make a juggernaut franchise
Splinter Cell was a Tom Clancy property and the only good thing it ever had to it's name was good stealth gameplay
It's easy to see which one would attract the bigger audience, beyond just the super niche stealth market

Oy vey, this is a very serious matter!

I think you have me confused with the other fag, I was correcting him and pointing out that Doom sold so well and was a hit on PC.

You're not revising history, but you are massively ignorant about it. Thankfully ignorance can't revise something a simple google search can clarify.

Except it does.

Tom Clancy's stories are always realistic and based on worldly events that could legit happen.

MGS is pure casual escapism.

Yeah, totally.

Heck, Ghost Recon (2001) predicted the Georgian-Russian crisis.

Just like all those shows predicted 9/11?

Yes.

It's called predictive programming.

Or the biggest coincidence in history.

You couldn't skip them. Valve tried to impress you by letting players throw physics shit everywhere while the game jerks itself off to tell a story.

When will people understand that all this shit is not real? Seems pretty obvious.

Jesuit/Mason detected.

Sorry, I am not retarded enough to believe in imaginary friends from the sky and any kind of 'spiritualism' until I get concrete proof.

Yeah, you're retarded.

He is behind the nukkake threats I bet

Because MGS has an autistic story that allows people to interpret in way too much than there actually is, and that's always a system seller.

Imo both games stand on their own equally. They both have good story and gameplay, it's just your personally taste in stealth mechanics/theming

Retard league maybe.

Very superficial and mainstream concepts tbh. The philosophical aspect of MGS is really cheap. You probably also enjoy Stephen Kang's books.

I thought you tried to be ironic.

Pic related.

/thread

O_o

that's the joke

It looked at issues that games wouldn't normally tackle
Doesn't matter how casual the exploration is, sometimes that's all it takes

So?
"Original" != good.

Where do you retards crawl from?

Sure, if you say so
Just tell that to the gorillions of MGS fans, I'm sure your superior taste will make them realize how wrong they all were and turn splinter cell into a massive system selling franchise

I assume that doesn't include RPG games.

...

Normalfags don't have the patience for RPGs unless it's casual garbage like Skyrim
Even the more weeb-inclined among them will only go so far as to play shit like final fantasy and pokemon

I love how you're making the case that a game about feminist theory would be good because it'd be "original".
I don't give a fuck about shit eating flies, same way I leave bethesdafags alone until they decide to open their mouth.

No I'm not
I'm saying if it was something the general public would be interested in it would be more popular
Stop being a retarded illiterate nigger, MGS sold more than SC, get the fuck over it

Pokémon, Digimon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Medabots, Beyblade, Naruto and Dragon Ball are not really weeb shit.

Moe girly shit is weeb shit.

Good cartoons/animations are good, regardless whether they are western or jap.

People like Pokemon because of the collectibles and battles, not because it's anime.

or DaS

If we're talking about traditional RPGs and not including hybrid shit like borderlands under the umbrella then souls games are primarily action-based

Just tell that to the gorillions of TES fans, I'm sure your superior taste will make them realize how wrong they all were.

Wow, look at that.

What the fuck am I reading?

And Skyrim isn't?

...

Yes, Skyrim was super popular, just like MGS
You totally blew me the fuck out bro, I guess that'll have to make up for Splinter Cell being dead

I guess you're right, though Skyrim's a poor excuse for an action game too, I have a hard time seeing it as anything other than a shit RPG

And both are shit, what are the chances!

Yeah
And?

Of you being a faggot? Very high

And that's it. I couldn't give less of a shit which sold more because I'm not monetarily invested in either franchise.

Then why are you in this thread about why MGS is more popular than Splinter Cell

...

What's the point in the knife anyway? It would have made sense in the original when you had to repeatedly hit alerted guards, but in CT Sam can just knee-kick any mofo.

Yes, they are.

Because it's got a more convoluted story.

I'm clearly taking bait here but just because it's entry level doesn't mean it isn't weebshit, also reddit spacing etc etc.

Yeah
And you're the only one who thinks I disagree with that, because you're a fucking idiot

Lethal kills that save ammo.

What's the point in that though? There are very few times you actually need to assasinate someone and they usually involve guns. Plus, you could just dump the body in water or off a building.

Original SC > Pandora Tomorrow.

I wasn't aware that the PS2, the Gamecube and PC were Xbox user. Granted it did come out on the Xbox a month or two before any other platform but that's hardly exclusive in the conventional sense. MGS1 actually took a year to show up on PC, somewhat significantly longer than it took SC1 to go multi-platform.

As great as the Splinter Cell trilogy was, it never had as interesting of a story as MGS. Even if MGS story isn't necessarily "good" since it is so convoluted, it is at least very exciting for a lot of fans. MGS also does have more interesting gameplay mechanics. Not saying more "fun" gameplay here. For some it may be more fun while for others it won't be.

Splinter Cell is more a product of its time if you know what I mean. For most it isn't going to be as easy to go back to because as I said earlier, it doesn't have the same kind of interesting exciting story or gameplay. Splinter Cell as a stealth game though? Absolutely I'd say it is better than MGS. It is too hardcore for modern day casuals though.

With that said this video is pretty damn accurate you got to admit.

The PS2 and Gamecube versions of Splinter Cell are different games made by a different studio and they're considerably shittier, and the PC version is a botched port with terrible AI missing much of the difficulty of the Xbox version.

You're arguing with an OG Xbox autist he won't let go and will blatantly if the need arises.
Like the King Kong game

Will blatantly what?

...

I'm surprised to see a lack of Sam Fisher on Solid Snake porn, I thought Holla Forums was the cathedral of degenerates.

Original SC has aged like milk.

Snake only loves Otacon

still better than pandora tomorrow

It was, the later ports actually took 5 months to come out, not 2.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy's_Splinter_Cell_(video_game)

It really isn't, sorry.

You sound like a newfag. >>>/cuckchan/

And Pandora Tomorrow hasn't? They're on the same engine user. The only difference is in PT you can whistle.

Checked.

You can also shift your weight in PT which I don't think you could do in the original. But even then both games pale in comparison to CT and OG Xbox Double Agent.

I agree with that, but I don't get why you're pushing PT as somehow not aged like milk or that it's aged less than the original. Honestly I think it's aged worse simply because the level design is a little weird in some spots and there are actually lots of bugs (there are these guards in the Television Station level that as far as I can tell glitch their shit no matter which version you play). If you're gonna argue SC has aged like milk then you really should include PT in there, because I can understand telling people to just skip to Chaos Theory (that's what I told my friend I'm trying to get in to the series for co-op to do). I personally like the original four games (excluding Version 1 of Double Agent for Version 2), but I can see how it might be hard for new people to get in to SC/PT.

Are you kidding? The original is fucking great. Pandora Tomorrow has aged far worse.

MGS games have good music.

Have you not listened to the Chaos Theory OST?

Terrible, Xbox wins again. I wonder if the same is true of Chaos Theory?

I've never seen anyone claim that about the PC version, have you got a source? The PS2 and GC claims are more reasonable but I'd have to go look them up.
Either way it's still blatantly incorrect to call SC1 an Xbox exclusive even if the versions on other platforms were of a lower quality (by that logic damn near every multiplat with a PC version is an exclusive).

Reading comprehension user, I said a month or two before any other platform not all other platforms. It was actually three months, give or take, until it arrived on PC but that still qualifies as any other platform.

Same engine as Pandora Tomorrow with, I'd argue, a stronger story and less restrictive levels. Even the train level that everyone goes on about (and I'll grant is quite memorable) is pretty much a linear setpiece. If SC has 'aged like milk' so has PT. Nobody is going to deny CT is the best game I don't think.

CT is, gameplay-wise, identical on Xbox and PC to the best of my knowledge. It's only DA that has a difference because Ubisoft Shanghai same fuckers who did PT by the way… made the PC/360 version while Ubisoft Montreal made the PS2/Xbox version same lads who did SC1 and CT.

sc and mgs are just very different games. sc to me felt like it was all about the stealth but just going through the oil rig in mgs2 for example and getting to the end was just a lot more fun. i felt like even though for the most part all of mgs2 is just one level, it ended up being like a fun journy. chaos theory has far better stealth mechanics but it didnt end up being as fun. both mgs1,2, and 3 just sucks me in the game

The PS2 GC claims are more than claims, they were made by a different studio and are different games in many massive ways. Feel free to look it up. As for the PC differences in AI that's something I've personally experienced as I've played it on both Xbox and PC, however you could probably find that yourself by looking up videos of the two. Basically: guards will notice you in a lot of instances on Xbox that they won't on PC, and not glitches, for example you can't get as close to NPCs. Either way it was hardly a multiplat because the only version that wasn't dumbed was on Xbox, nothing incorrect about it. You can argue it came out on PC, but again that's a botched port so does it really count?

So you don't know? I mean for example you don't even seem to realize that the Xbox version is different from the PS2/Gamecube version as well, which is funny because the differences are shown in the very video I was replying to. In fact the Xbox version of Double Agent being one of a kind really sort of shows how Splinter Cell had a long tradition of being core xbox. Were there ports for PC? Sure. But they were ports which can be hit or miss.

Not what I was asking. I was asking of the PS2/Gamecube versions of Chaos Theory also feature dumbed down levels and missing effects like they do on Double Agent from the Xbox version.

So I decided to look in to it myself, and so far it is looking like PS2/GC Chaos Theory is indeed a different game. Similar, but with different levels. I'm playing the Gamecube version now and after having played the Xbox version last week it's disorienting. This is such a weird thing that Ubisoft did making literally different levels and basically games for different consoles. I'll report back more as I get deeper.

Okay, last time I'll bump the thread about this. Just wanted to say Pandora Tomorrow is the only game that seems the same across all three consoles and PC (aside from a few removed effects and textures, levels are the same). So to clarify the absurd shit we have going from Ubisoft, 8 games with 4 titles to spread among them:

XB/PC Splinter Cell (Version 1) (Montreal)
GC/PS2 Splinter Cell (Version 1.5) (Shanghi)

XB/PC/GC/PS2 Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow (Shanghi)

XB/PC Splinter Cell Chaos Theory (Version 1) (Montreal)
GC/PS2 Splinter Cell Chaos Theory (Version 1.5) (???)

360/PS3/PC Splinter Cell Double Agent (Version 1) (Shanghi)
XB Splinter Cell Double Agent (Version 2) (Montreal)
GC/PS2 Splinter Cell Double Agent (Version 2.5) (???)

Snake isn't a Jew trying to kill bad goys. That's why you could resonate with him. Snake was fundamentally good, with a fully functional conscience, which made his heroism matter to people.

Nigger you're so in fucking denial.

If it was FaggotFist, he would be wanking off Thief for the wrong reasons too.

Because muh Kojima

I'm willing to believe that, if only because of hardware issues, but I'll verify it for myself in a bit. Take it as granted for now anyway.
I've played it on both repeatedly and never noticed a difference. Video comparisons of gameplay are subject to many variables being changed at once and frankly outright bias (even unintentionally): if you go in to prove a difference you'll normally find one, particularly if you do multiple takes and pick the two which best support your case. Next time I'm replaying the series I'll have a shot at it though: maybe I'm wrong and have simply never noticed because I wasn't looking for it (it'd have to be a subtle difference mind).
You need more than anecdotal claims about AI differences to call PC a 'botched port' user.
The 'to the best of my knowledge' claim is related to Chaos Theory, hence 'CT'. I started talking about Double Agent where the post says 'DA'. We call this the English language user. I'm well aware that DA differs between the Xbox and GC/PS2 though I'll admit I thought it was more of a simple graphical downgrade and not actually chopping the levels up into smaller chunks. Frankly I've never bothered playing a SC game on something that wasn't the original Xbox or PC because why the fuck would anyone want to?
I'm not sure you've got enough evidence for the claim of a 'long tradition of being core xbox'. Perhaps if you want to talk strictly consoles and leave the PC aside then that claim is accurate but until Double Agent the PC and XB versions of SC games are essentially identical (better graphics on PC not withstanding) and even with DA the original Xbox got what was clearly considered by the publisher to be the inferior product compared to the 360/PC version (i.e. the version they intended to be the main one was multiplat). The original Xbox got a unique, superior version of DA not out of anyone choosing it as a core platform but out of Ubisoft fucking up both other versions.
Even if I accept your claims about the PC port of SC1 being botched (for which I have yet to see real evidence) that still means that two of the three pre-DA games were identical (gameplay-wise) on PC and Xbox as per your own list here I like to pretend that Conviction and Blacklist don't exist for obvious reasons but they're also multiplat.
Why the wish to paint SC as an Xbox 'core' title or whatever anyway? Neither the series nor the platform benefit in any way from it.
Fair enough, I'm sure a few seconds of looking it up will tell you. I do believe there are subtle differences in available maps that were released as DLC.

I see I was correct with that. As for why they varied it so heavily I do not know, perhaps part of a marketing deal to give every console their 'exclusive'? It again might be hardware limitations more than anything: the GC in particular is going to have that issue.

Welcome to Ubisoft, they lucked out with SC in every way down to Ironside pushing for the Sam Fisher we got and frankly I don't think they had any idea what to do with it.

Or to expand on the point about SC always being a 'core' Xbox title to the exclusion of anything else: of the three games before Double Agent two (Pandora Tomorrow and Chaos Theory) are gameplay-identical on PC and Xbox and maybe based on your claims SC1 has inferior AI on PC but is otherwise identical (assuming this is even the case I doubt it would have been intentional).
Double Agent's next-gen version was also identical on PC and 360 and was intended to be the main version: regardless of how things turned out the last-gen version was meant to be a bit of a throwaway game. I really don't see how you jump from this to it being 'core Xbox' and I don't understand why you care anyway given that this was too fucking generations ago. If it really bothers you I personally think the Xbox was the best of its generation overall when you balance up both hardware and libraries but it doesn't matter shit all at this point since they're all cheap as chips nowadays. We at least seem to be in agreement about PT being the worst of the original 'trilogy'.

Nothing is bothering me, I'm stating facts. Splinter Cell was core xbox. I'm not a fanboy, in fact my favorite console that gen was PS2. The fact is Splinter Cell was an Xbox game first and foremost regardless of how much disbelief you seem to have for whatever weird reason. I mean do you think botched PC ports never happen? Do you really think Ubisoft is the sort of company to focus on PC? Do you think they focus on PC with how horrible the Ass Creed ports have been going lately (and a lot of those games were made by Montreal). Again: you can debate it all you want and try to deny it, I lived during the era, I know the facts, add to it that I have played all the versions recently and I'm extremely confident in what I'm saying where as all you seem to have is "I don't think so".

The next gen version of Double Agent was rushed at the last minute. All the info I can find points to Version 2 (specifically the Xbox version) being the main version until they decided to go with Shanghi's prettier rush job because they knew it would make them more money.

There's nothing fantasy about MGS2.

State it as often as you like, without evidence it means shit all.
I never said that, I said you need to prove that this specific port was botched. Nice strawman though.
Making a game multiplat is not focussing on one platform. Additionally Ubisoft, for all of their flaws, did shit out some pretty good PC games/series back in the day (pre-Seventh gen). If you're talking about the original Xbox keep to that timeframe.
How is that relevant to discussion of a games from two generations ago? The claim is that SC had a 'long history' of being core xbox, not what modern Ubisoft are doing. And if you want to go that way Conviction and Blacklist are also identical across PC and 360…
What makes you think I did not?
You've not provided a single source for your claims of 'botched pc port' beyond anecdotes. The burden of proof lies on the one making the extraordinary claim and I've never seen anyone else claim what you have ITT.

Ubisoft are incompetent, what's new? Also you're ignoring the fact that the release date for DA was delayed by ~6 months to add more development time (I remember getting annoyed at the announcement)
Please post the source of this info.

You can even dig up interviews from 2005 talking about multiple studios/versions being planned at that point (uk.please use archive.ism/articles/2005/12/14/splinter-cell-double-agent-interview?page=2). I think your narrative of a next-gen version being a last minute thing added to an existing current-gen version is pretty weak without any actual evidence to back it up. It's much more likely that both versions were planned from early on and that using an inferior studio (Shanghai) and asking them to use an entirely new engine is responsible for the shitshow that was DA version 1.

Funny, there was someone else in this thread who said the exact same thing I'm saying. Feel free to scroll up. I mean the fact that you think a 4 month delay for the PC port of the first Splinter Cell isn't a sign it was Xbox focused just tells me that you're in denial and I really don't understand why. If you don't believe what I'm saying, then fine, don't, I don't give a fuck. I've shared the facts as I've gathered them, take them or don't. Honestly at this point this is just getting retarded. I keep telling you things and you keep saying "show me proof or sources please", it's fucking absurd, sorry there is no source for my own experience.

Splinter cell was xbox focused, are you this underage or just really this butthurt about being wrong about something?

Burden of proof is still on you, post some evidence.
3 months, not four, and that was pretty common back when pushing release dates back for polish was a thing. You've also once again ignored the fact that PT, CT and the next-gen versions of DA were multiplat. You are using one game out of four for your argument, hardly conclusive.
So you have no actual evidence? We've been at this for 20ish hours, plenty of time to go dig up at least one source.
Anecdotes =/= evidence, this is a fucking universal concept. Are you really telling me that in the 15 years since release no evidence for your claim has surfaced? Nobody else has noticed or cared to look into it for a such a massive series? That's pretty fucking unlikely.

I've not seen a single piece of actual evidence nor an actual reply to any arguments beyond 'I saw a thing in a game and it seemed different once'. Back up what you claim or don't claim it.

I'm guessing it's a mix of both.

Sorry everything I say isn't backed up by a full research paper and several case studies.

Or even a single fucking source, apparently.

How do you source shit you've experienced yourself? Should I wade through youtube for hours on end to find video someone MAY have recorded of the PC and Xbox versions showing the exact AI behaviors I'm talking about? Again: you can either take what I'm saying: or apparently you can get all autistic about it.

Do you know why anecdotal evidence is not allowed in any serious study? There are so many potential things that could cause false positives (confirmation bias, for example) that self-reporting is just not reliable.
If you want to make a claim then yes, you have to dig up evidence to support it. There's been a decade and a half for someone else in the world to notice this so I seriously doubt evidence does not exist: if it really does not why not record it yourself?
We don't live in a world of opinions and anecdotes user, this is Holla Forums and not tumblr. You don't get to write off requests for hard evidence as autism.

Also, since I did not directly answer you:
For hundreds of years masses of human effort have been devoted to turning observations into repeatable evidence. Pick a method and use it.

I get that Chaos Theory was anti-nationalist, but so was MGS.

Yeah, I'll just bust out my $500 capture card and my component to HDMI converter and record that right away for you. One last time: You can either take what I'm saying at face value or you can get autistic about it. I get you've already made your choice, but those are your only options. I have no evidence to present you aside from anecdotal and given we're not writing a fucking research paper here I'm afraid that's all I owe you.

Get on it faggot.
You know I found that when playing the Xbox version of PT the AI would occasionally talk about how cuckoldry was the thinking man's fetish, this was of course not in the PC version. I'm not going to bother backing my claim up so feel free to accept it or not: shit's up to you. If you ask me to provide evidence then you're an autist.
And again you can't write off asking for evidence as 'autism', that shit doesn't fly. If you don't have any evidence then fucking man up and admit it instead of trying to paint requests for it as somehow unreasonable.
So no evidence.
It is not unreasonable to ask for evidence in any argument user, this is not a safe space.

Was CT explicitly anti-nationalist? I mean I know it didn't support the actions of Otomo but the series as a whole has Fisher doing anything necessary to further the interests/protect the safety of the USA. I think it was more against unnecessary aggression/militarism than nationalism. Third Echelon pretty explicitly puts more value on innocent American lives than it does on innocent lives elsewhere too so it's not just acting as world police.

Ebin strawman. Your autism is beyond compare. I'm done here, I've been called a liar long enough, and this whole conversation has been a bad joke.

Reductio ad absurdum =/= strawman.
Being asked for evidence is not being called a liar. If you're really that easily triggered fuck off somewhere else.

Nigger, you've been being a little cunt for 20 some hours. I don't see how ANYONE wouldn't be sick of your shit.

Why do you get so upset at being asked to defend your claims? Do you expect people to just go around accepting them at face value?
If you'd either posted some evidence or admitted way back that you didn't have any none of this would have been necessary. Most anons are also not thin-skinned enough as to take 'please prove what you are saying is true' to mean 'you are a dirty lying cunt'.

On an image board? Yeah. This isn't a fucking classroom or hall of science and, I shouldn't have to keep from talking about my personal experiences just because I don't have the overpriced tools to display the information in a concrete form for you or a source. But you're autistic and apparently can't understand that. EVERYTHING must be sourced or you better not post it user.

What sort of fucking imageboards do you go on?
These are not the only places in life where you have to back up claims you make and given the state of modern universities you don't really need evidence there anyway.
If you'd simply said 'it's only anecdotal, I've got no evidence', that would be fine. You did not do this.
You repeatedly used this anecdote to support your claim the pc port of SC1 was 'botched': once you start using it as part of an argument it's no longer just a fucking observation.
If you want to use it to make claims about the quality of a port then yes, it must be sourced. If you just want to post it as an anecdote then whatever but clearly explain it as such when asked.

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That and he kills Shetland, who was a person who wanted to disempower the deep state/elites because he felt that they held too much power.

It still holds up in this time, it's pretty cool.

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I'd never thought of Shetland like that but it's actually a pretty fair point. If you examine it without taking the side of the protagonist the only real difference between the shady shit Shetland gets up to and the shady shit you get up to is that his was for the benefit of his PMC and yours for the benefit of the deep state (pretty much just a PMC writ large anyway) and only incidentally the public.
Yup, particularly when you consider that the plot is partly about East Asian tension and Japan's response to that.

I hope Mark makes this thread a sticky so everyone can laugh at you.

You people make me sad.

Are you asking for evidence user? We just learned only autists would do that.

They should change this board to Holla Forums:Autists waging slapfights over their gay opinions.

I don't want evidence, I just want people to admit when they are being objective and when they are talking shit just to gain easy replies.

Good job misreading my whole argument. I said expecting evidence from personal experience is autistic. I mean that's not why we're here on the board, to hear from other people what they experienced first hand or anything, nope, we need evidence. The only good games are ones rated well by metacritic, don't you know?

let's be real, you forced it on yourself when you implied that asking for evidence is autistic.

Still no argument.

It was a joke about the sperg posting above you user.

You also said you expect people to take things you say at face value on Holla Forums. Are you new?

and before you open your dumb mouth to say anything, you would be the equivalent to "that guy" from school who said daddy worked for [big name game company] or who knew how to get big ultra secret in video games but never gave ANY PROOF

Are you samefagging now? Are you samefagging to keep your postcount from bloating? If not you post exactly like the other fag.

What's left in the bag of insults?

It's just funny because you two post awful similar. The bold, the double replies, the cadence. It's all there.

ONLY ONE PERSON COULD EVER DISAGREE WITH ME, MORE THAN TWO MEANS SAMEFAGGING

Amazing strawman my man, 10/10, took you a while to switch over tho, need to work on that.

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I mean you can have this but I could quite easily have edited it in any number of ways (even paint, if I wished).

listen bud, admit it. You've painted yourself as a moron and now you're backed into a corner. be thankful this is an anonymous mongolian basket weaving forum, the humiliation hurts less.

Uhh, dude, I was the one saying it was an xbox focused game…

You know what, I'll take what you're saying at face value. :^)

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I didnt mean to quote you actually

Ah, fair enough.

this was about if SC1 was xbox focused or not, then you sperged out because someone was asking to prove your claim of the PC port being a botch job.
funny enough i had SC1 on PS2i later played the PC version and beat it multiple timesthe PC port was WAY better than the ps2 version and i had zero AI issues unlike you claimdo you need proof of my claim? cause you can just take me at face value and have your entire argument come crumbling down because you have a bumbling retard

Of course the PC version had better AI than the PS2, the PS2 was a different far worse game than the original made by a totally different studio. I wouldn't argue that at all, I said it had weaker AI than specifically the Xbox version which was made by the Montreal studio. Glad to see you admit you were just jumping in to post "NO ARGUMENT" memes though.

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Wasn't the Windows version also made by the leafs?

Yes.

The proof is my personal experience. I've played both back to back and even done the same things in them with different results. Would you like to hop in a time machine, drive down here, and then watch with me as I learned it? Or maybe I should go buy a $500 dollar capture card and an HDMI to Component converter just so I can show a few autistic anons something? Are you seeing why this is ridiculous?

Source please?

By the way, here is a contrasting source: The Credits which say "Port Team" right at the start. Are those people Ubisoft Montreal.

Also now that we've seen the text "Port Team" can you faggots finally accept that Xbox was the main development system?

forgot link

did you also unlock the super secret ending where Sam Fisher grabs a submarine and flys to pluto to kill robot zombie Stalin? Now i dont have any proof of this but i unlocked it 5 times in a row because my dad works for ubisoft montreal :^)

Would you go apeshit at someone saying they played a shitty pc port today?

Depends, did they post proof that the PC port was shitty? :^)

You're a fag, this is getting autistic, I'm done. You don't want to believe me? Be my guest. Know less about Splinter Cell, I don't give a fuck.

Are you asking if all of those French names are from Ubisoft Montreal?
This is a different claim from your original one of the entire series having a 'long history' of being an xbox core title.

Reductio ad absurdum is a thing user, unless you wish to go and bitch about Socrates being an autist too.

do you have a single fact to back that up?
post timestamped video of you turning PC off and walking out the door or else i dont believe you.
my dad works for third echelon faggot
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehoods, only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
:^)

Funny how none of those names show up later in the credits in the original team…

Where is your proof that later games weren't developed mainly on xbox?

Autism is a horrible thing.

I said I was done with you faggot, I and meant it, this is your last (you).

abloo bloo bloo. the bumbling moron is ignoring me because he got absolutely BTFO by anonymous strangers on the internet with his non-arguments.

That isn't the argument. Your argument is that any claim on Holla Forums should be taken at face value and that to ask for any further evidence is autistic. Taking that to an absurd extent is a textbook example of reductio. I mean you are literally arguing against one of the foundations of western philosophy right now.
Literally the first fucking name on both lists is identical (see picrelated). Did you even watch your own source?
By your logic any game that has ever been ported, even if it has identical release dates, is a 'core' game of another system.
Identical release date for CT, identical gameplay for PT, CT and SC1 unless we accept your anecdote. More than you've got certainly.

NOPE. No where did I say anything close to this. I am saying reasonable statements made from personal experiences should be considered, and either taken at face value or ignored not fucking sperged out about. You must be autistic because you seem to have a legitimately hard time understanding people. Nowhere did I say anything even close to "everything everyone says on Holla Forums should be taken at face value".

I was talking about the programmers, no shit the original head developer was a co-producer, they always do that shit, doesn't mean anything.
It does mean the game was developed on the system first, so yes, the game was intended for the system and was built with it as a core.

Do you have a video for that? Sounds anecdotal and I know how you hate that.

Nope.

Correction: one of the programmers did cross over. One. And he wasn't listed very high. Still, could point to it be a branch of the Montreal team, though I don't know if I'd call a port team the same team.

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Oh sorry, your claim was that we should take statements at face value or ignore them completely and that asking for evidence is 'autistic', much more reasonable.
So why did you say 'none of the names'? And I've already noted in a quick skim that the art director was involved. I also note that your posts were delayed just long enough for you to watch the video again and actually check which means you posted it without watching first: strong evidence that you came to your conclusion first (it wasn't ported by Montreal) then went to go hunt evidence for it.
Having it built with a core does not mean it is a core game of that system and was clearly not what you meant by saying it: we can add playing semantics onto the list of fallacies. And it does not mean intended (only) for that system or superior on it.
Burden of proof lies with you if you want to make the extraordinary claim they are not identical. I'm sure you'll take issue with the burden of proof as well since you seem not to understand how arguing works.
You yourself have also agreed with part of this statement further up the thread (PT was identical across all four platforms)
A release date is more than no evidence at all.

So you're also willingly ignoring the same art director being involved etc? A game is more than simple programming.
I hate to bang on about the burden of proof but an abundance of french names and the involvement of identical producers, art directors etc supports them being part of Montreal in the abscene of opposing evidence.
We can split hairs about that but if they were in the same building and had a lot of oversight it's a different situation to farming it out to a third party to do.

Lead level designer too.

I like how you have to cut out the reasonable from my comment. Can you not understand that word? Is a "reasonable statement" something beyond your grasp? Is me saying the PC version of Splinter Cell has a weaker AI the same thing as me saying aliens are colluding with the Illuminati to you?
I guess it really is.

Only now you're claiming they're identical, but you're excused from having proof because…?

Okay. I'm done with you. You're showing absolutely no respect for what I'm saying and just dismissing it. This has gotten way too autistic.

Like I told the other faggot: you want to know less about Splinter Cell and it's different versions as well as the history of the series: I don't give a fuck. God forbid anyone tell you anything.

Lets be fair, the GBA and N-Gage ports had 10x better AI, that makes them better than the rest. Splinter Cell is a core handheld/mobile game. But hey it's just my opinion so you don't need evidence.

Do you fail to understand that reductio ad absurdum is supposed to involve taking something to absurd levels to prove that the underlying logic is flawed? It's in the fucking name for god's sake.
Extraordinary - beyond what is usual, ordinary, regular, or established
It's pretty well established that the gameplay is identical (certainly for CT and PT). You are making the claim outside of the ordinary: you must back it up. If you dislike this please direct all complaints to scientific and philosophical orthodoxy and the enlightenment in general.
Because that's the established view user. Do we have to down go to babby-tier chocolate teapots so you'll understand burden of proof?
Please note I said in this post identical release date for CT. I did not say so for DA or SC1.

I note you've also ignored half the points in that post because they're inconvenient for you to answer (the spoilered part in particular).

I'm going to take this at face value.

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Okay, last time I'll bump the thread about this.

One last time

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Is autistic the only insult you've got?

Personally I'm rather confused as to what else this might mean.