Hello. I am an idiot libtard dummy who hasn't even read the complete works of Marx in the original Klingon. I will GTFO your board, but first I have a question:
How do you guys plan to win without getting the liberals on your side? Do you intend to reach past them and entice "NOBAMA" Republicans into embracing full communism? If so, how?
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Let them starve and maybe they'll stop worrying about urinary segregation
Notice how the Prez who portrayed himself, or was portrayed as, the more radical choice won the last three elections?
Imagine if an actual radical made it all the way to the final election.
They were talking about Hillar'16 since '08 and she still almost lost the primary to a man so old a lot of people probably thought he couldn't finish his term.
Like, in some meta-ironic metaphorical sense? Because I don't see how you can control food production unless you've already won.
We can control food production, we just need ecological catastrophe to help u
How do you intend to get that far?
The future most likely doesn't include liberals, and it especially doesn't include conservatives. They're both capitalists, even Bernies foreign policy was still pretty imperialist, he supported using drones, just thought Obama used them too much.
If we can communicate Marx criticism of capitalism effectively the proles will come for the most part. You're just like reactionary Trump voters that talked the Dems into believing they couldn't win elections without appealing to latently racist moderate republicans.
Run a radical reform/change/I'm actually going to do the shit I'm talking about candidate, who actually has a plan for victory.
Sanders almost got it, but I don't think even he believed he had a shot at winning til half way through his campaign.
All wealth comes from labor. Visit any US farm during a harvest if you don't believed me. You're not important to the revolution, only a critical mass of proles are needed
Most people aren't nearly as insufferably stupid as Americans.
You gotta be a white suburbanite to believe all real change takes is getting people elected.
Open up a history book, I recommend Civics for Democracy, it takes citizen lead movements to effect change, electoral wins usually follow after ward not before
Less than 2% of the US population is employed in agriculture, down from 50% in 1870. There no longer exists a large body of farmers in the US. Currently existing lip service paid to farmers is an artifact of our strange electoral system which prioritizes low-population states.
Industrial employment, likewise, has been on a downward trend for decades, resulting in the current service industry.
Are you talking about election strategies, or violent revolution? In the latter case, you'd want to focus on control of the police and national guard (who are not limited by posse comitatus)
Liberals are in a transitory state.
For example, if you scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds. Conversely, if a liberal becomes class conscious, a communist is born.
We do "plan to win without getting the liberals on our side", because who is on our side can no longer be an obedient capitalist apologist, with the exception of traitors.
That's just one example numb nuts. Your home, all your electronics, clothes household goods are all made by what's nearly slave labor.
There were also 75000 black votes in Detroit not counted and countless other voter suppression tactics employed.
No ones fooled you Dems don't give a fuck about Democracy being subverted until it bites you in the ass. Fight, die and bleed to restore even a modicum do democracy to poor proles and then maybe someone outside your echo chamber you take your sanctimonious ass seriously
Today's liberal is tomorrow's communist. Your confusing trashcan of an ideology simply won't stand up to fascism.
Lacking immediate access to this book, could you give me the short version of what sort of plan you would actually aim to pursue?
Are we still talking about labor in the US? Most clothes and electronics are produced in other countries.
(Home construction is obviously local but is hardly slave labor. People can make decent money in construction)
What gives you the idea that Democrats are disinterested in their own votes being suppressed? They obviously want to win.
Because they remained unconcerned about the electoral college, gerrymandering and the gutting of the voting rights act, they cucked Bernie and all his supporters
Indeed. I remember one of the arguments against Bernie is that he wouldn't be able to get any of his platform accomplished because of Congress.
So what's this magical progressive platform that Hillary would've been able to get done? The news media has been advertising her campaign for 8 years straight all the while losing more and more seats in congress.
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I disagree with both these statements. Obama and Hillary spoke out against things like voter suppression and changes to the VRA, but ultimately that power rests with the Supreme Court.
The DNC's crime with Sanders was exchanging private emails about why he lost when the race was still technically going but he had no chance of victory.
The only legit dirt was that one staffer who snuck hillary a debate question, but the question was about water in Flint in a debate taking place in Flint so it was kind of a no-shit moment.
Cultivating a stabbed-in-the-back myth seems unhelpful to your cause, frankly.
Killing them.
>>>/ctr/
Having citizen lead movements effect real change under Trump. Dems throughout history have acted as controlled opposition to any real radical change.
Cooping every movement and placating with half measures and then slowly taking those consessions away
By subverting their voter base by offering them a campaign platform not based exclusively on melanin and vaginas?
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I want this meme to die.
For what it's worth: I don't like Clinton and I don't like defending Clinton even incidentally.
But if you ignore the way the media had its hands around her throat, you'll find yourself sunk by those same forces in the future.
Do you mean at an election? Because we don't
Or do you mean in general? Because we don't care what a minority of middle class dipshits think. Its about targeting people who are actually oppressed, not victims of a perceived victimhood.
Sure.
majority of leftists in america nowadays are either rich/petit-bourgoisie corporatists or social democrats
nobody will ever convince the bourgies of anything and social democrats are already socialist
It's simple, we must educate and recruit liberals.
It's not a meme, I was alive and watched CNN occasionaly in the last 8 years.
Also if you notice your chart: (7/17/16-9/18/16) Is a small window of time very far along in that aforementioned 8 year time range.
How many speeches did she even do in those 2 months? She sure as hell didn't do press conferences.
It's true. I'm mentally retarded and live in a hermetically sealed plastic bubble affixed to a starbucks. All my income derives from the Clinton campaign, which has been tough since it shut down months ago. Also I smell bad.
Now that we've got that out of the way, I'd appreciate your input regarding my prompt, if it's not too much trouble.
Your prompting liberal mouth deserves the input it received, namely, shit.
Fine I'll try, but first let me ask: Why do you strongly identify with 'liberalism' and what would it take to get you on our side?
You fucking lost to Trump
Have a pity party for yourself all you want. Plug your ears at all the critics. The Dem party is through, even your donors are jumping ship. Seriously if you can't win against Trump what can you fuck ups do right
Actually, Clinton gave press conferences in that window, while Trump did not.
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But what does this have to do with anything, though?
How is a movement that puts the working class first appealing? Are you fucking retarded? If anything, it's you liberals that alienating them from leftism and Marxism the most to begin with.
This. Fuckers should be groveling, begging us for answers, not going, "how do you plan to win us over? :^)"
You deserve Trump you useless sacks of shit.
So late in the game……. 270 days with no press conferences….. wahhhh???
And you wonder why the media stopped liking her?
I believe in a well-regulated free market economy (and that our current economy is poorly regulated), and a government that protects individual social freedoms. I think a strong economy can be used to fund welfare (possibly in the form of basic income or negative income tax if the math checks out) but that full communism is unfeasible because it cuts out the beneficial self-organizing functions of a healthy economy.
I'm not actually 100% clear on what your side is. When I ask for a rundown, I am usually told to read Marx, which doesn't seem a good use of my time because he's describing a world which no longer exists. (And is dry as fuck, tbh)
You're not going to be able to spin your way out of this. You guys dug your own grave when you started imbracing neoliberalism going back to Carter.
Clinton both Bill and Hill have screwed over blacks, working people and the poor at every opportunity.
Obama folded like a cheap suit to every Repub tantrum, fucking Obama care is the brain child of the fucking heritage foundation.
You guys have been fucking over your poor and working base to appease your donors and now you can't even beat Trump a bigger fucked up canidate then fucking Goldwater.
You should be on your knees begging us for advice instead you dismiss every criticism out of hand
liberals will be leftists if they have economic/standard of living problems. right wingers will just blame it on liberals and the secret marxists controlling everything because they are brainwashed
They didn't just lose to Trump, they GAVE us Trump.
Watch Kapitalism 101. It's tough to explain Marxism to a liberal because there's no shared theroy to build from to help you understand
Eh, I just think it's important to separate the true criticisms (like her phony personality and incredible lack of charisma) from the memes, in order to have a better shot at winning in the future. If we focus on solving illusory problems, it's wasted effort.
Explain please.
No one gives a fuck about her personality. Both Trump and Hillary are neoliberals, Hilary promised to move away from white supremacy while trump promised to preserve it.
That's why he won, she offered nothing, not even the illusion of white supremacy like Trump did
illusory problems like her reactionary, right wing stance on LGBT issues?
or her previous collaboration with trump?
or the motherfucking haitian shit?
or actual illusory issues, like fucking emails
Wow you're just going to ignore all the material ways she and Dems have fucked people's lives up and pretend image and PR can solve your problems.
I'm going to laugh when Trump ships your dumbass to the gulag
At least I'm coming here and asking you stuff. It'll be ten times as hard to sell it to some overworked service employee, raised all their life to associate socialism with failure, who just wants to go home and sleep.
I was mostly thinking emails. Y'know, the one issue we ever heard about with her campaign.
I'd debate other stuff, but at this point I don't think it would be conducive to useful discussion.
I'd say you're LARPing as a dumbass liberal, I mean Trump won, no liberal is this clueless still right?…..right?…..right?
You obviously have never talked to an overworked person about politics.
It's a lot easy to explain Marxism to them than a liberal since I don't have to explain how capitalism is exploitive and contradicts itself, they already have a frame of reference, their life
if i can win over people who literally (and continue to) believe in alex jones style lizardmen and NWO shit i can win over the exploited worker fam
Well you have to remember she and The DNC had multiple email scandals/situations. We're still talking about emails for fucksake.
Is this what you're looking for?
You ask for an explanation like were fucking obligated to give you one that meets your standards.
We have no problem spoon feeding anyone that wants to learn in good faith.
That smug assumption that Dems have to be convinced first before revolution can happen like some kind of gatekeeper is what pisses me off.
Like I said you lost to Trump, you can't even succeed by your own definition of success and you have the audacity to come here and look down at us
I did not mean to imply you're obligated to do anything.
Dude just stop, you've been given a bunch of suggestions on where to find more info.
There's no appetite to teach a liberal anything right now, you've implicitly or explicitly derailed every and all grassroots citizen movements going back to the civil rights era.
Now after faithfully nuturalizing all real opposition for your paymasters you see your own political end coming and now want answers that somehow don't touch the hurbris that got you in this spot in the first place
Just please fuck off
Make liberals face the facts. Just look what Hillary Clinton's leaked speech to Wall Street behind closed doors. Liberals are even worse for the working class than the republicans are.
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I'm expecting shit to hit the fan. If and when it does, I'm expecting most liberals to realize that their position is untenable.
Honestly, I hope I'm wrong. I don't think I'd make a good revolutionary.
Given your references to the US election, I'll assume you are also an American, so I'll speak in terms of American politics.
In the realm of American politics, what has become abundantly clear is the fact that the current liberal party (the democrats) are rapidly losing most of their support base: they lack any sort of identifiable/marketable plan for how they intend to improve the country for anyone whose not upper middle class urbanites/suburbanites, and is not making much attempts to reach out to anyone who isn't that base, Wall Street special interests, and a bit of minority pandering on the side.
Liberalism (neoliberalism especially) is killing itself through its own inability to address the problems affecting most of the people claims to represent the interests of (often going out of its way to sabotage those very people). It's a slow and difficult process, but we're seeing people become conscious of these problems and how both ruling parties represent largely the same interests; Clinton failed because she represented the continuation of a stagnant and inadequate neoliberal status quo while Trump continues to show just how much of a farce the concept of the "political outsider" was as an alternative within the current framework. Its not so much a matter of desperately trying to win over liberals today: many of them have not fully come to terms with how bad their prospects are as a force of relevance. It's more so a matter of standing by a set of principals specifically designed to directly address the contradictions of the current system, being able to articulate those points, and generally being visible; the move is simply common sense for those who hold the values that liberalism largely claims to desire out of a given society.
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ancaps are monarchists