Daily reminder Notch is a shit programmer that couldn't make his game in C++

Daily reminder Notch is a shit programmer that couldn't make his game in C++

Other urls found in this thread:

filthypants.blogspot.com/2014/12/n64-3-point-texture-filtering-in.html?m=1
minetest.net
forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=15350
files.minecraftforge.net/
forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11882
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

WHO FUCKING CARES STOP MAKING SHITTY THREADS YOU FUCKING CUCKCHAN REDDIT FUCKING FAGGOTS HOLY SHIT MARK DO SOMETHING

Mipmapping is what the N64 did to smooth textures out. it only looks blurry if the texture is low-res.

PS1 didn't use mipmapping so it's teaxtures looked blocky.

Are you fucking retarded?
THIS IS A VIDEO GAME THREAD.
ON A VIDEO GAME BOARD.
THE CONTENT MAY NOT BE GOOD BUT IT'S STILL A FINE THREAD

Fucking christ what is happening to this board.

Well to be fair
If you asked me to code in anything but Lisp, I probably couldn't do it without like a month to study.

functional programming is a meme, had to take Racket in college but it was a waste of time.

meme class.

And he got rich as fuck regardless.

...

No, the term you are looking for is texture filtering. Specifically, three-point texture filtering because it was a bit faster to compute than full bilinear texture filtering.

Mipmapping is the process of using lower res versions of a texture the further away an object is from the camera.

filthypants.blogspot.com/2014/12/n64-3-point-texture-filtering-in.html?m=1

Who cares? He hates SJWs, so he's good in my book.

Lisp is multi-paradigm, not just functional.

Also, Common Lisp > Racket.

so user what did you make in c++ if that language is some how the only thing you're allowed to program in.

Don't need a daily to know that.

Still this got me thinking. The new mincecraft ip owners at microsoft are sitting on a goldmine. They could make a minecraft sequel with a better engine and make fucking billions.

They're already making billions by porting it to literally every device, user. A Switch port is inevitable.

It's already on the swotch

it was a ripoff of infiniminer, and modders finished it. all he did was the middle.

Reminder that Notch made what became the most popular computer videogame of all time that was so prestigious that one of the largest tech companies on the planet bought it from him for a 2.5 billion dollars, and you haven't even made a pixel platformer yet.

OP is a faggot. The type of faggot who has no idea what the fuck he's talking about but pretends to based off memes.

Minecraft was originally in the browser, which C++ couldn't run in until recently when they started making shit like webassembly. The reason is Java is in bytecode which your computer compiles on the fly, where as C++ is compiled for specific type of cpu, OS, drivers, etc. Also when he made the standalone game he just had to reuse the app he already made for the browser rather than writing from scratch.

Also Java isn't that much harder than C++. The difference is in C++ you have access to low level shit like pointers. Java is just object spamming. The reason Java gets so much shit is because there are people who only know how to spam objects

Infiniminer and dwarf fortress.

...

Nothing I said had anything to do with performance. Surprisingly enough, rewriting your game from scratch doesn't always work out to well.

That's all I ever wanted out of that fat swedistani shit. I'll just keep using stonesense and these duplo loving autists can keep fagging off in their own corner.

You're a fucking idiot, and your examples make no sense.

this

also
"arguing that Java is
better than C++ is like arguing that grasshoppers taste better than
tree bark."
- Thant Tessman > in comp.lang.scheme

Wrong. Java is notoriously shit. The JavaVM is so fucking bad that even the most basic primitive operations take orders of magnitudes more cycles to accomplish than even poorly written C or C++ code.

Gee, thanks for stating the obvious, Mr. Wikipedia.

Game was almost done but the CEO saw a presentation for a new game engine that blew his mind, so the team to rewrite the whole game from scratch

The team has been trying to make a standalone game for years now. Buggy as fuck and all around garbage.

You must be new if you don't know about these.


Idk why people think turning minecraft into dwarf fortress would have made it better. The only thing that makes sense invasions but even then it's so easy to build shit in minecraft on the fly that you can just wall them out.

I dunno mate don't you rate threads based on their content? Sounds like a retarded saying to me


Which is what Notch is, considering the state of his game. Can't even program lights to follow the player character

Damn bro you blew my mind.

If you wanted real portability, you would do virtualization with something like kvm, like Docker does.

Even the Plan9's Dis virtual machine ran with only a few percent overhead. Java code runs at somewhere like 40% as quickly. Not sure why you defend it.

I'm just saying why it was basically perfect for notch's situation. Even if java was an awful browser language:

Then you got people here who see god nows how many games fail because of retarded decisions, only to turn around and make the same retarded decision.

Docker doesn't use KVM, or any kind of hardware virtualization for that matter. It mostly relies on cgroups and Linux namespaces. Its portability is very different from Java's. Java is portable across processor architectures and operating systems, but Docker containers are neither. Docker doesn't do anything to abstract the instruction set and it heavily depends on Linux-specific features. It also requires root privileges. It's just not for the same thing as the JVM at all, comparing them is pointless.

Dis is much more relevant, and takes inspiration from the JVM. More of an Inferno thing than a Plan 9 thing, though.

And Java's VM is slow garbage compared to other languages' VMs.

Even modern C++ runs in a sandboxed VM for portability

Italian nerd makes better Minecraft single handedly. Nintendo BTFO.

Pretty sure that's what they're planning on doing.

Grasshopper master race, tree bark fags should hang.

No?

This is the second time I see this statement on Holla Forums, so I have to ask: where the fuck did you hear this? Are you confused about LLVM IR (which can be interpreted by lli, but it's not portable)? Are you talking about how you can mix managed and native code in .NET applications (which is really just a native call, nothing fancy or ground-breaking)? Is this what Microsofts new executable format is? Where the fuck is this coming from?

This has probably been said before already, but you can make a game that performs well and is well optimized in Java (it'll probably just take longer than a C++ game to load initially because it'll have to bring in more libraries and the JVM), it's just that Minecraft in particular is a really badly coded piece of shit

Uh, Java's much easier than C++

brainfart typo shit. E

ven then it's debatable. If you're just writing shit code the C++ is slightly harder because it doesn't suck your dick and java forces OOP on you. If you're trying to be super optimal then it's much harder to optimize in java than it is in c++.

I disagree. OOP isn't hard at all and I don't consider it an extra challenge.

However, I'll agree that it's probably more difficult to optimize in Java for a videogame than it is in C++.

I recall that the developers of We Shall Wake THE HIGHLY ACCLAIMED VIDEOGAME FOR Holla Forums FOR VIDEOGAMES BOARD created their own game in java.

The most significant optimizations are avoiding constant allocations in the render thread and figuring out the magic code to make shaders compile into something more efficient.

Why are you posting this instead of Minetest?

minetest.net

I didn't say OOP was harder. I said

...

Oh ok

After that, the worst issue is cache misses. Most modern code is notoriously bad with this. OOP is partially to blame, but it is also developers. Memory that is operated on in blocks is not allocated in blocks. It is fragmented. This causes data to constantly be flushed from the processor's cache and read from RAM, which is much slower.

Because minetest is a crashy lua shitfest, this still has potential to be… well… not shit.

OOP is the meme, user.

The only time minetest ever crashed on me was when I tried modding it, so the crash was a direct result of my own mistakes.


I don't know if OOP is to blame for the fucking mess that is minecraft's code, or just notch, but I spent weeks trying to figure out how the fuck a tile entity works and it's a nightmare because no classes are clear in what they do or how they're supposed to be used.
You would think that with every little thing being a specific class that can be called at any time, that it shouldn't be hard to trace back how something is set up, but for the hell that is trying to trace the root of anything in-game I can see why nothing substantial was ever added to the game, the people notch hired must have been trying to decipher the fucking spaghetti for years, and probably still are.

OOP and functional programming are both memes

minecraft doesn't strike me as something that should, with professional coders be something that would be hard to recreate code wise. it's really weird that there is not infinite varieties of this game already.

But here's the question we all have on our minds: Guns?

But will it be well designed? Minecraft had more problems than just optimization issues.

They're all on the xbox and steam.

in fact just look up "sandbox crafting voxel" in the steam store and see all the shit that crops up
there was another straight minecraft clone ALSO made in java, but with fancy shaders built in, and at least one or two clones on xbox, one of which I know was actually worse because it had no survival and building was the only thing to it but you had to collect the materials from the world to build, without flight

Isn't Voxelands just Minetest but with more content?

That game has nothing to with minecraft or all the others on that list. It's an action game with RPG elements, no construction to it, just blocky visuals (probably the best blocky art style out of the list).

Minecraft Pocket Edition is written in C++ though. They were originally going to merge the Pocket Edition engine onto PC but they realized it would break a lot of mods

decent spess memecraft when

yeah but, Minetest…
more minecraft modders need to move over to minetest.

wew

The way blocks work in minecraft(As in currently) wasn't notch. I remember a blogpost written by one of the guys that notch hired who described the system. Back then the changes he made were sensible and had significant performance increases but after notch left development to his lackeys it escalated into a mess that both reversed any performance benefit and made the system overly complex.

Stop talking about subjects you know nothing about.

The real problem of Minecraft is not poor programming, but chronic mismanagement. The game hasn't changed since a long time, even though a lot of empty content (biomes and building blocks) have been added. You still punch a tree, get wood, make a w.pickaxe, mine some stone, make a s.pickaxe, mine some coal and some iron, make an oven, smelt the iron and then gear up on iron stuff and build a house. There's just not enough functional stuff in the game, there's 0 reason to build a big base (Terraria does this right), there's no reason to seek out randomly generated structures such as dungeons or jungle temples since everything you get there you can get from mining and killing mobs and now there's no reason to seek out a village because you literally have to breed your villagers like cattle by trading with them so they reproduce.
Notch at least had a vision, jeb and Dinnerbone ruined it.
It's sad, because Minecraft could have been great. Imagine if it had the item variety of Terraria, imagine if you had to build an elaborate base to fit all the crafting furniture you need and to allow some not useless NPC's to settle your world.
And that's what those Swedish cucks did.
God, the horrors of Minecon. If only we could go back and change things. Fire Jeb and Dinnerbone, and get some competent people to make it an actual game worth playing instead of an "educational more than a game which can illustrate to niggers how their mudhut village would look with a sacrificial altar".

Not to mention how eventually you drain all the resources around your house. At least in minetest you can go as low as you want to so you don't run into the point where you have to do increasingly long and boring travels because the earth is hollow under your home.

Oi Boi Oi coin't woit toi ploi MOINECRAFT oin the SWOITCH

is that screenshot minetest? last time I saw it looked like absolute shit, what happened?

Terraria isn't even a game about building like Minecraft is, but it still has a ton more furniture and decoration variety. Never understood why they didn't just add some chairs and stuff into Minecraft.

and yet he made a game.
i dont care what you make something in, just bring your ideas to life however you can. dont wait for someone else to save video games.

If Notch ever had a vision of a quality game he abandoned it immediately, at least Jeb! and Dinnerboner implemented content no matter how worthless during the long stretch Notch was running the show but doing fucking nothing because he knew he didn't have to in order to achieve the full scope of his actual vision: milking the wallets of autistic children without any effort past a point.

voxeland looks like what minetest is missing. is it fun?


shit, i would. but then I'd use the money on personal projects and tools, instead of filling a void life with bullshit like N.

It doesn't make you or him less of a kike if you would, he could have made the game less shit and still gotten rich. He had the means, he had a gigantic community that was fighting to give his fat Swedish ass ideas if he didn't have any on his own. He pretty much got success and just quit trying instead of trying harder because he was being rewarded like crazy for his successes up to that point, it's a shit thing to do.

Minetest is not like minecraft, it has a barebones download and there are a ton of mods you add on to it to make it run and look however you want. if you know lua code you can easily mod the game and add whatever you want.


Minetest mods is in lua code.

not enough money in the world to deal with that screeching autism cyclone

It's a screencap of blockscape, it's in C#.

looks like shit

And that's worse in the opposite direction.

There's no way a Java coder will want to touch lua, not when it has not even 1/10th of the libraries and language features, and makes it impossible to do OOP unless you want to spend 98% of your time troubleshooting nonsensical lua errors.

And that is why minetest will always have shit mods, and will never ever see a port of any of the forge mods.
At least not one that isn't a shitty clone that crashes your game half the time (eg. Technic).

Which proves knowing how to program well has absolutely nothing to do with making good games.
Programmers couldn't make an interesting game for their life.

Kek, are you the same idiot who made the thread on Holla Forums whining about how FP is useless because you didn't understand it? Figures you would be one of these fags that glorify a clunky language because it makes you feel all 1337 and shit.

Oh come on, Minetest is literally a Minecraft clone. The only divergence is Minecraft has a complete base game while Minetest has modding by design, and isn't run by Notch or Microsoft.


Yet people with good game designs should leverage the people who know how to code. Then you get masterpieces like Doom and Quake.

And he got rich as fuck regardless.

Luckily engines cut out the middleman, allowing good designers to make games despite not being that proficient.

Oh look, it's the retard that can't install a Lua linter or figure out how to use class libraries.

Minetest is fundamentally broken.
Chunk loading doesn't consistently work.
Everything stutters.
There's no moving node support, making the frame mod useless because your machine can just vanish for a split second from under your feet when relocating.
Lua is fucking slow.

...

Good joke user, good joke.
Because sales = quality, right?

Minecraft was a good game before the shit updates.
I mean, you'll never admit it because you're a fag, I know that. But it's true.

Not always. But Minecraft was genuinely fun for a while, being able to build block houses and rail systems, and all those wacky redstone things.

how dare you criticize the flawless perfection that is not-minecraft that is better than minecraft in every single way possible

Oh look it's the child who has never used lua. Come back once you've grown up and have actually attempted a larger project in lua, not just printing hello worlds to console.

Must be painful to be too stupid to use a scripting language designed so that even morons could grasp it.

Post some games you've made.

Lol ok.

...

The most significant java optimization is not programming in java but coding in java bytecode. The compiler is a retarded piece of shit. That said, these days Java is owned by Oracle and not Sun Microsystems so why the fuck would you want to subject people to installing their runtime shit just to run your software.

There are open implementations of Java like OpenJDK, doubt Minecraft still works in it though, it was ages ago when I played it with that.

OpenJDK is the reference implementation. Minecraft runs just fine on it.

The only thing you have to worry about from oracle is patent/copyright trolling, not that you can't run the jvm on your platform.

but grasshoppers would taste a lot better than tree bark, they're meat
what a dumb comparison

at *best* this makes him an "enemy of my enemy" ally of circumstance. Its like 8/pol/ and the_donald.

Not the best comparison, 8/pol/ is full of the_donald redditards now.

I figured it was worth mentioning since the developer fucked off and never making the game.


Pocket edition is the win10 edition as well. They probably wouldn't care about it breaking mods if not for the fact that they probably couldn't re-add modded content to the base game.


It wouldn't surprise me if notch actually was the better programmer compared to his crew. I used to be able to run a minecraft server on a pentium 4 for fucks sake, WITH BUKKIT PLUGINS. Just having forge installed now pushes the limits of what my phenom II x4 is capable of.


Some of your points are valid, but I still can't figure out why others are having performance issues in minetest. Still, the quantity of mods + consistency of style is laughable, and the modding API lacks calls that would really help in being able to mod without reinventing the wheel or directly modifying the engine.

8/pol/ and the_donald are pretty much the same thing nowadays, do you know howany unironic "kek" worship threads i've seen?

Space engineers is shit. They need to make survival less grindy and stop making their choice way of having enemies in the world be spawning them and making them home into the player every second, or meteor showers every 3 minutes.

This thread sucks. There's already a c++ version of Minecraft…the version of Minecraft for the Xbox 360.

Also, you java programmers are right, "use the right tool for the right job". But what you are forgetting is that java is categorically the wrong tool for accessing system drivers, such as the ones operating your GPU. So please fuck off with this, "It's just as good for videogames!" nonsense.

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is it just me or does minetest have better world generation?

Troll or just retarded?

it does

java is the wrong tool for basically everything, and so is c++

Why don't you share your wisdom on what IS the right tool then?

C

I came to this thread to say just one thing

stop

To be honest there is no right answer to the question "what is the right tool for everything?" but the best answer is C. And I don't mean the retarded new C standards.

He's not wrong. If you're going to performance fag you do it in straight C or you code in C++ like you're coding for C.

double stop


That might be true, but you really have to fuck up your optimisation if you want it to run well on a modern machine. Things are so powerful these days that most indie games aren't going to scratch the surface of what a modern machine can do.

They miss you and your bullshit over on Holla Forums

This chart is exponential. CPU speed has grown over 1000x faster than memory access (RAM) speed. If you're making some crappy corridor indie horror game then it wont matter but if you're trying to make something grand scale like one of the dayz ripoffs (just an example of large scale indie games) then this matters.

3dxpoint is going to solve this

How long before it becomes common place and isn't just used for mainframes?

forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=15350
You mean this?

AMDs unified architecture used in Ryzen tried to bridge the gap By slowing their shit down and tying it to memory speeds

This is a solution but supposedly the recently proposed DDR5 will be closer to CPU Cache speeds but that wont be delivered until well into the 2020s

I thought that version was written in C#.

Was referring to this
files.minecraftforge.net/

Is mipmapping the equivalent and looking at your finger real close to your face then changing the focus to what's further away?

I spent hours, up until 5am trying to figure out how to change the scale of the player model in minecraft.
At least 2 mods have already done this, and I cannot for the life of me figure out how. I looked through a number of classes to pinpoint how setSize(float,float) works, and I've found the fucking function but cannot call the function nor recreate it. I found the code for upscaling baby animals, but could not utilize it at all. I've looked on forums, and most results recommend making a call to GL that wouldn't change the bounding box of the entity.
This is fucking gobbledegook nonsense.

Stop using glBegin()

well how do you expect something from another game to work on a different game?

if you know how to code in lua or c than you can easily change minetest to whatever you like. or try and convince forge devs to work on a minetest version.

Mnecraft is fun and is a game, if i could make a handsome piece of drawn artwork like the mona lisa by rubbing 2 bread loafs togeather would it be any different than using paint brushes?

I think the nature of the art would be different.

Not really.

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forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11882

Are you the same guy that posted in every minecraft thread from years back?

Point being that no mod written in forge will ever be rewritten for minetest because lua is shit compared to even Java.
Even if you tried you'd never be succeed because lua lacks the necessary language features, all you'd succeed in doing is create a poor copy that looks like a chinese ripoff in comparison, point in case the Technic mod for minetest vs the original Industrialcraft for minecraft.

1.8 was the last great update.

top pep

Is there anything more painful than reading the opinions of uninformed Holla Forumsirgins on programming?

reading Holla Forums's opinions on politics

Yes, also the guy that occasionally says "I'm the backpack cuck" to get (you)s isn't just pretending.

2.5 BILLION

Yeah, reading your self-righteous, condescending drivel.

Aw did I hurt your feelings?

Depends, did this thread trigger your autism?

No need to respond(even though your autism won't let you do that), we all know the answer.

Shit, I guess you're right

Look up chown, youngling.

Yes, the main drawback is how little the modding API actually offers beyond making static blocks/importing models and adding items. The advantage of the API is that nobody needs to manually install a mod just to join a server, since it's all scripted your client only needs to download media like textures/custom models/custom sounds.
This is not to say, however, that you cannot just modify the engine yourself to tack things onto a base game, but then you run into the issue of people needing to download your fork of the game, and that defeats the purpose of having an API.
Minetest needs to improve on a number of things, but the lua API really saves a lot of hassle for people who just want to join a server without having to dick around with 3 different third party launchers that download modpacks from forge/technic/whatever other shitshow there is.