Freedom & Democracy - Live Stream w/ Wolff, Snowden, Jeremy Scahill, and others

You just have to remember that freedom aint free the tree of liberty and freedom got to be litter'd with the blood of patriots. Barack HUSEIN obama is not my president he is an islamic gommunist and proballly kenyan as well :—DD Adam and EVE not Adam and STEVE ok? Praise jesus.

the croat dude said some good things about refugees

Yeah I'm enjoying listening to his opinions on it

Did I miss Scahill?

Nah. Only Horvat has spoken so far.

No it's only been Horvat.

this just got extremely awkward…

Lol how has he never heard of 789 joke

Did he say Paul Jay isn't gonna be able to make it?

Never mind. He's coming

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Schillinger really turned his life around.

So we have embraced the LARPing and are dressing up as pirates now?

I'm from Munich and didn't hear about this.

Could someone kindly kill me?

Dont trust anything that Todenhöfer says, hes a clueless liar.

Sure

Why am I not surprised that the fucking tankie is a Bavarian from Munich

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I CAN HEAR THE HOST BREATHING THROUGH HIS NOSTRILS AND I HATE IT

there's nothing wrong with a little dress up

LOL thought it was me breathing too loud. Knew I wasn't crazy

oh God

What a mess. This is why we can't have socialism.

I'm not born Bavarian. and Munich became an absolute shithole due to gentrification but at least we got this grassroot activism channel apparently

RDW starts in about 25 mins for the ones wondering

did they really just use some shitty wifi for their connection? aren't there better ways to do that?

At least he has the balls to actually go somewhere where none of these fair weather "journalists" would ever dare to go.

I'm not sure if you can call somebody clueless who actually went into the heart of the IS to interview them. He probably has more authentic information about some stuff compared to what you get anywhere else.

Germany and Munich in particular is known for having Somali tier Internet.

Why?

Paul Jay did a really good documentary about wrestling call Wrestling with Shadows which is mostly about Bret Hart. 10/10 would recommend.

On the topic of bad reporting around the Iraq War: twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/820678036236410880

Scum should get a day in prison for every civillian that died in the conflict

he's still fucking doing it

creating an alternative media to combat misinformation is really important
here in greece the mainstream media have gone beyond covering up news and propaganda and now they are at the phase of completely making stuff up

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Nice spook.

LEFTIST GATEKEEPERS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

When was the last time CNN covered climate change?

we need more of this

Well, it's true.

PAPA WOLFF IS COMING ON BOIS

HE'S COMIN BUCKOS

PAPA WOLFF

Can I pay my landlord with ecoplasm?

CO-OPS IN T MINUS 5…4…3…2…

THA WOLFF

Wolff-senpai!

wolff has a nice house

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Actually glad I didn't go there, really awkward how they failed to properly set up the Internet.

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He's so adorable

ALLAH mentioned

Holy shit he just compared Karl Marx to Jesus.

"Are you under the influence of Marx?"

Seems accurate.

Wolff going in hard af.

Dude how many Marx's did you take??!!??

FUKUYAMA ON SUICIDE WATCH

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fukuyama is a joke now

Fuck it's on right now.

fuck I can't believe I missed Fukuyama getting btfo will this recorded?

He didn't really specifically fuck up Fukuyama, he just said people who believe capitalism is the optimal society which could ever exist are retarded.

wut did he say?

He did say "some people even title their books that" in reference to the end of history meme.

i like his house

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HERE COMES CO-OPS

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everything that comes out of this mans mouth makes so much fucking sense

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I wish that a famous Marxist in the media would for once actually defend the USSR instead of engaging into this "not real gommunism" defeatism.

But I understand it would take up too much time and lead away from the topic.

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It's so fucking sensible and appealing to the natural human mind.

They're definitely gonna assassinate this guy.

yeah it's boring and academic as fuck

It might be the end if they crash this planet with no survivors.

Yeah, tankies definitely need to be executed

Although I have a lot of problems with the USSR, I feel compelled to defend it whenever it's brought up because its successes are so little discussed. The whole discussion surrounding the USSR is so dishonest. I think that's why most people avoid the discussion, even if they're well aware of its successes.

Fucking smug cunt was probably right then fml

Exactly. You don't have to be a tankie to intellectually honest discuss the USSR to counter all this stupid shit that's flying arround.

Why not just have elected directors who answer to and can be deposed by the other workers? Rotation seems silly when some people are substantially more skilled at a particular job than others.

Goodbye Papa

Welp

Cause you just please enough people to get you reelected. Or use propaganda.

You know… Like "democracy" works now.

Wolff has talked about the success of the USSR before when addressing that no other country has ever been able to match its astonishing speed of industrialization. Michael Parenti has done plenty of USSR apologism as well.

It's exhausting. Every conversation forces you to wade through decades of bias while genuflecting at all the right altars before you can even start discussing it in an honest way.

Fug, I only came in at the end of Wolff's part. What did he talk about?

Wolff even did some mild Stalin apologia in one of his lectures where he defended Stalin's decision to lie to the population by stating that the USSR had achieved true Socialism.

Nothing new or particularly advanced. If you've watched a lot of his stuff you've heard it before.

th-thanks

Wolff has made the term "state capitalism" popular even though it was originally coined by Lenin to describe the NEP. Plus it is simply incorrect, an authoritarian bureaucracy is not capitalism because you don't have a capitalist ruling class extracting the surplus value for themselves. Again, you don't have to be a ML to understand this.

That's why I always take him with a huge grain of salt.

actually the only thing I wasn't on board with was the question about directors. While I agree with sortition and rotation. He failed to mention that the group democracy would never be a constant decision making process, but a constant organisation of the system for decision making.

Take the hospital example, almost everything in a hospital happens by procedure and protocol. There is no real reason why these protocols could not be brought about by a democratic process.

Although I can see where there could some instances of needing a split second decision, I don't honestly think they are all that often in a well managed hospital. They are after all buildings designed specifically to cater for as many of the common ailments as possible.
Where there is an anomaly is an exception to the rule and, usually, as he says, these will not be emergency situations.
Although in the true emergency I do recognise the need to devolve to an instant decision maker.

This is how decisions were often made on pirate ships according to David Graeber who was talking about someone elses work, so this is third hand information, but basically every decision on a pirate ship was taken by show of hands, they all voted in the sharing of loot and, critically, the captain only assumed full control in the event of a storm or a battle, his control was immediately terminated after this.
Not uniform, but this was supposedly the most common way to organise a pirate ship. Basically most pirates were ex navy so they were all heavily opposed to military hierarchy

Nice post. Learned something new.

goodreads.com/book/show/541876.Villains_of_All_Nations

This is the book he references. Its in 'The Democracy Project'

Thanks

IT'S BACK

this guy…

Scahill is on.

Was the first half like this?

and some of you doubted the validity of Debt: The First 5000 Years.

I fucking love this event

Great speakers, but so many damn technical issues

Yeh I hope Snowden is still alive

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What's the joke? Will seems like a pretty bourgie guy

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Scahill looks a lot like Sargon…

ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT
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It always confuses me how Snowden and Assange are both lolberts but they mostly seem to associate with leftists.

Are they just Low Key left market anarchists pretending to be lolberts for upboats or something?

yeah, i always though the viking looking guy was furthest left

I want to be a pirate too

The 30 million propaganda has worked too well

Is Wolff on?

agreed

Kek insert that screncap of the news headlines about Trump

Snowden is a lolbert…? Do you mean civil libertarian or economic libertarian?

He already came on. Sorry. Pretty sure you can watch the whole thing after, though.

I could be just imagining it but I think he supported Ron Paul.

Assange has said 'in terms of markets I believe in free markets'. On Wikipedia it just says hes 'Libertarian', wikileaks states that it is to make capitalism ethical

The fact that he is so cryptic about it leads me to believe he believes some wild shit though and his work on networks and network theory is extremely ancom

Is Jeremy Scahill a closet anarchist?

I've always liked pirates, it's nice to see that they are ideologically symphatic as well

Hmm maybe. He's in the same circle as Greenwald, so I'm pretty sure he's either lefty or doesn't care about economics.

then again Im not some millionaire paying for fucking extra podcasts so I might not know anything

I'm confused. Does Michael Flynn love Russia or hate Russia?

I'm trying now but I can't find anything which is actually kind of weird.

Wiki says he voted third party in 08 and would be in support of universal basic income

Pirates are cool
Swords are cool.
Hats an peglegs and parrots and ships and treasure is cool.

Pirates are cool, but they were really horrible rape killers just romanticised by lolliwood

Pirates are cool
Direct Democracy is cool

Yeah, I expect that

Space Pirate Socialism is the future

FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY PIRATE SHIP

So relatable

lol me too, when I was like 9 Jack Sparrow was like the coolest shit there is

yeah, iktf too
DEUTSCH ÜBER ALLES!
FRANÇAIS POUR TOUS!

I'm thinking
FULLY ANARCHIST LUDDITE PIRATE SEA COMMUNISM

i don't like the german guy that much

Everything he said is sensible and fine. What do people have against him?

SNOWDEN IS UP

WE /SNOWDEN/ NOW

DO YOU FEEL CHILLY

CAUSE THE PLACE JUST GOT SNOWED-IN

any1 knows?

I don't like how they keep pandering to the feminists in the audience. Why are they apologizing for not reading books by women and not having a women on the podium, gender has nothing to do with this.

Because it's [CURRENT YEAR].

Yeh when Scahill said lets get a woman on the panel I was all, well okay, but who? Which woman has the socialist academic standing that D Wolf Does? Or has done the leaking the Snowden has?

FULLY PRIMITIVE MANUAL CANOEISM

Wait I don't get it. Why did the FBI hate MLK's guts? Because anti-war or what?

It's just a damn nod to a group of people that comprises 50% of human beings that wasn't represented, don't be autistic man

Jodi Dean is the best current female advocate of socialism that I can think of off the top of my head.

He was against the Vietnam War, he was anti-capitalist, and the FBI thought he was a "troublemaker" who was a closet black nationalist (which isn't true).

This
It's not that deep. Stop sperging guys. Sound like alt-right losers right now.

Once he started to talk about class.

Actual quote from Hoover, director of the FBI, in 1963, after MLK's "I have a dream" speech:

judith butler, naomi klein would be some popular choices

Thanks

So, women are a group, that needs to be represented.

And there I thought humans are not defined by gender and socioeconomic issues are not male or female..

Hmmm…

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Wtf

nice b8 m8

No, seriously. What has sex, gender, race, ethnicity, to do with socioeconomics and capitalism?
If it was about "the role of group X in society" sure! But what does it matter when the problem is universal?

Shut up CIA, we know you don't us to listen Snowden.

I really don't care enough to argue with you. As long as we are comrades united against capitalism and hierarchy I don't mind you

Ok ok.
Lets listen about PRISM and you tell me later.

Nothing and everything. Capitalism, being the base of society, touches everything else. Women being forced into the workplace (partly as a Trojan horse under the banner of "women's liberation") is explicitly wound up with capitalism, for example. And obviously, in the US, race had a lot to do with economics, since there was a system of slavery based on race, and its effects (along with capitalism's) are still a large contributor to black poverty.
To be clear, I don't think the whole "diversity for diversity's sake" meme is worth anything, and I don't think having quotas based on sex, race, or anything else is a good idea. But it's all interconnected.

This webcam shit is scary.

I gotta drop skype and delete my windows and go gnu/linux

>>>Holla Forums
I already have.

He is really quite competent at talking about how the "national security" state functions and deals with dissent. Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI is very interesting and I hadn't heard of it.

this pretty much, I don't mind female quotas on corporate boards tho

for myself I sorta think it's too late now :/

If all my stuff is stored then they already have enough to take me down and analyze me precisely, hell someone with my reddit password can already see into my soul

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I'm thinking you could throw them off a bit if you'd change your legal name and use pseudonyms everywhere after dropping everything else, including the accounts you used, your computer, your IP address even…

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That's like having an affirmative action program for slavemasters. "Ooh, my bourgeois overlords are so ~diverse~ and ~progressive~"

Pic related.

Cause if you have women, trans, gay, blacks, native Americans, whatever, on corp boards, they'll suddenly stop exploiting or something.

It's all about Class. Not identity.

Agreed. But being in an exploited class has secondary effects based on your sex and race. That said, I think we should explicitly focus on class, since you can be the most special snowflake on Earth and still be bourgie scum.

GNU, although more secure, has its own vulnerabilities. Unless you get something like Void, which is so minimal you have to complete the system, there is always a substantial risk up from the kernel level.

Get a new machine and new accounts. Unless you can physically move to a different country, these are your best options.

Don't be a prick.

This

void uses the same kernel as all the other linux distros…

only alternative would be going BSD.
Was OpenBSD good?

If you're that paranoid, use OpenBSD or something.

Too late, ledditor.

Judith Butler specifically theorises about Gender. Its not really relevant to these discussions.

I thought about Naomi Klein but she actually sucks at public speaking.

GNU isn't absolutely secure by any means, but I do think it is reasonably secure. In comparison, Windows is a consumer rights nightmare.

I'm a hardliner here: if it's not 100% secure, it's not secure at all. Which is sadly what we'll have to live with for now.

The jankee-doodles and home nation have my fingerprints. Other than that I guess it could work, however I like my name :/ and my reddit account

fucking sectarians

I didn't say that it would ever solve anything by itself. But the closed elitist circles getting invaded by 40% vaginas won't hurt. Mainly I'm thinking that the precedent of having legislation about the make up of corporate boards could inspire social democratic ideas of worker representation on boards. Therefore I'm for quotas here.

Get a new reddit account then. Get a somewhat similar name then, or a name that sounds alike.
Anything to throw them offtrail as far and wide as you can.
Otherwise, they're just gonna release our browser histories the moment we'd try anything that seems somewhat threatening to them.

There is literally no such thing, it's mathematically impossible.

It won't help, either. Why do you care what color your bourgeois masters are, or what genitals they have?

Risk can be assessed and controlled for. It is better to compromise for a decent improvement than to go "fuck it, use your botnets" if we can't have a perfect solution.

And really, no one wants to deal with OpenBSD on a modern work and entertainment machine, it's a neat project but hardly useful to anyone with even remotely normie needs. For Guhnoo/Linux, all you really need to do is avoid Ubuntu.

I hope Mélenchon will win so Snowden-senpai will be able to be safe in France and baguettes with us ｡( ♥︎‿♥︎)｡

MY GOTT!
THE IDEOLOGY IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE! *snif*

FUKIN SOCDEMS, REEEEEEEE!

It is upsetting, nonetheless, that our current systems are fundamentally insecure.
But I concur: this is exactly why we should keep experimenting, developing and protesting.

Beyond being a hero, Snowden is such a great guy.

I should do something yes, however I'm lazy and doubt I'll ever be a public figure. Also I have nothing that is more than mildly incriminating. The bad stuff is like my personal feeling stuff.

Read the next fucking sentence

the social democrat reform ideas of today is the anarcho-communism of tomorrow

tbh he almost makes me want to be a liberal

Lol he's not liberal. You can't be liberal and criticize King Obama

I did, fam.
So are you a socdem or just naive?

Well, it's been good guys.

I don't think Snowden is a liberal, he is more of a guy who is really concerned by just one idea, liberty.
I'm pretty sure he is more left-leaning now, but if he would see your political compass, he would certainly cares way more about your position on the authoritarian/libertarian axis than the right/left axis.

Libertarian / anarcho-communist, depending on how susceptible the person I'm talking to is to radical thought.

I'm not a social democrat, but I don't hate them. I think it's good to see reform that makes radical ideas seem more attainable. Surely you agree that the idea of workers having 50% of the boards as in Germany is better than 0%

And having more women CEOs does?

Is that why VW fucked up with their emissions and so on?

liberal is a really weird word, isn't it :D

anyway I don't think it's relevant trying to place him on some compass as long as he keeps saying smart things

I hate capitalism, women CEOs wont change anything, does this mean that no reform is good? Jesus I said I didn't have the energy for this

YES

Ehh, I disagree

It's ok.
You'll grow up and be a cynical bastard like the rest of us.

It's actually 50% -1. Can't let the filthy proles have too much faux power. :^)
But yes, it's better than 0%. However, that was a concession to Die Linke, not part of a diversity-fest. Deliberately or not, diversity quotas are frequently used to make institutions appear more egalitarian than they really are.

Use Qubes OS and virtualize everything then. Isolation is the most important modern security paradigm.

Did they ever upload the full video anywhere? I wanted to watch this.

seconding

bumping for video

he might get banned from his party for this.

A-anyone?

Just go to the link in the OP. It's all there now.