XV.I.MCMXIX

XV.I.MCMXIX
APOLOGIZE FOR WHAT YOU DID TO ROSA SOCDEMS

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How about you apologise for the 100 million killed in your nightmarish dystopias first?

Rosa was never given power to do that. I piss on your grave.

How about you apologize for collaborating and voting with the fascists that caused the downfall of the Weimar republic and the rise of the Nazis?

The horrifying amounts of blood that stains the memory of all your failed experiments should give you pause over trying to do it again.

Yes, democracy has never been involved in any wars whatsoever.

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Auf, auf zum Kampf, zum Kampf!
Zum Kampf sind wir geboren!
Auf, auf zum Kampf, zum Kampf!
Zum Kampf sind wir bereit!
Dem Karl Liebknecht, dem haben wir's geschworen!
Der Rosa Luxemburg reichen wir die Hand!

RIP Karl and Rosa

youtube.com/watch?v=zOtLLoalMrk

also
mein kamaraden

How are SocDems significantly different from Holla Forums again?

rosa would have never done that

they are not

They're just not obviously racists.

kek. literally a made up number.

Did you come here to shitpost or to debate. Apologize to Rosa.

Unlike Marxist theory, Social Democracy does not call for a violent overthrow of the existing order and the extermination of whole swathes of the population, with all the brutality that entails. Instead, it advocates CONSENT from the majority of the populace to engage in redistribution and meditative measures to successfully smash inequalities and to deliver justice within capitalism. War simply doesn't factor into it. Keynes himself even advocated for an International Clearing Union designed specifically to address trade inequalities that might arise naturally.

Impossible

What is the connection between the RF and the SA? What is the rate of KPD and NSDAP voting for the same shit in parliament? What is the1932 transit workers strike in Berlin? Communists saw social democrats as worse enemies the Nazis and this way they helped their rise to power.

i saw someone claiming it was 400 million not too long ago

i like otto wells

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Far more possible and real than whatever """justice""" was achieved under ML and anarchist regimes.

Who cares? When you extinguish class, equality between classes is a nonsense and utopian idea.

why are you okay with the workers surplus value being taken?
why do you want the state to continue extorting people?

I'd like to see you become the son of a former serf in Russia in the 1890s and then have the audacity to write that comment again.

Marxist theory does not advocate for the violence that ensues from the capitalist provocation against the lower classes. We cannot apologize for something that is entirely your fault.

It will become a non-issue with Wage Earner Funds


Necessary for the greater good. Infrastructure, housing developments, welfare, education, healthcare and social services - all these and more pay back the worker indirectly anyways.

Ah yes I'm sure those serfs were so pleased to be forced onto collective farms and mass slaughtered for resisting insanity. As if Marxists truly cared about the peasantry when everything hinges on the factory working proletariat.

Fuck off you obtuse cunt.

her name sounds like rosacea, lol what a fag

I'm well aware of the Marxist conception of surplus value.

Wage Earner Funds bypass the """problem""" of surplus value extraction by taking said surplus and placing it in the hands of trade unions. I'm in favour of increasing the shares given to 100% then workers will have full control over the means of production, as they say. However it is highly theoretical.

see welfare
literally muh roads, tell me can't a sydicate or a collective make roads and pipes?
see welfare
muatual aid does a better job of helping people, it is also voluntary
independant schools are a thing. also books
mutaul aid


and lastly what the fuck are wage earner funds?

That never happened.

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forget my wage earner fund question i didn't see your comment before.
but why have the state middle man? instead of having the mop be owned by workers/ unions

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Ugh I keep losing my flag. Anyways, I just wanted to say that that is plainly false and ignores how the creation of the welfare state came about. Mutual aid is not good enough; people must be coerced into giving up their resources to eradicate poverty.

No you are the one who has no arguments.

has the welfare state eliminated poverty?

also i think kropotkin demonstrated that

socdems as bad as tankies, what a surprise.

I'm not sure I follow. Wage Earner Funds would hypothetically lead to a sort of market socialist society. The state would be there to provide law, order, healthcare, etc.

Rosa btfo socdems in 1900 with 'Reform or Revolution', so they killed her for it.

Never forget.

why should the workers have their profits distributed by the state when they can derrectly own the means of production?

also what moral right does the state have to give laws if it is built on armed compulsory theft (taxation)

90% of all humans lived before the agricultural revolution
primitive communism.
90 billion victims of communism in all of time. That's why rigorous academics like the Victims of communism foundation have to say communism killed 100 million people in the "20th century alone". Most people think that was the only century where communism was a thing, and denoting a century is redudant. but they are mistaken.

People are not perfectly rational economic agents who will always make the best choices on what to spend their money on. By siphoning a little bit away through taxes we can guarantee functioning court, health, etc. organizations and functions that will continue to exist regardless of how a WEF-taken over enterprise might perform on the market.

And the socdems still can't come up with an adequate comeback. Just more ideology to cover over ideology.

The ends justify the means. That's what it comes down to anyways. I care more about a high HDI than remaining morally """pure""" and abstaining from every usage of the state.

top kek

The SPD are neoliberals. I'd vote Die Linke if I could.

remember the 90 billion killed by the prehistoric stasi

No, not all. Only that which is needed for, say, a functioning legal system, education system, infrastructure, etc.

well i disagree i think the state is evil, and finding ways to replace its functions is one of the noblest endevours possible today.
agree to disagree

Thats it. All non socdems form a line. You're getting the Rosa treatment.

This
Sigmar Gabriel is going to run. SPD is doing their best to fulfil Projekt 18. Guido will be smiling, once the message reaches liberal hell.

Linke has two advantages. It's the most left-wing party who has a chance to land in the parliament and it's the only party with whom CDU/CSU will not go into a coalition.
Also they are hated by Bild and the whole corporate press in general.

There is no end to the education, to the legal poltics. You are a liar and want only to be a tyrant who while pretending to denounce authoritarians effectively secure your position above all, you want to dupe the population into think that you will ever be satisfied in subjugation them.

sauce, im pretty sure what happend is that no one trusted the spd after the murder of karl liebkneckt and rosa luxemburg

SOCDEM ARE LIBERALS IN RED

THEY ARE PART OF THE LUMPENPROLETARIAT

Why are we still obsessing over something that happened almost 100 years ago?

because nothing good is happening now,
there was hope in those days, now we just head for the dystopia
AND ITS YOUR FAULT *sobs uncontrollably*

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I think things took a better turn after World War II. Things started to go downhill once Milton Friedman's economic theories in the 1970s replaced Keynesian economics. The Thatcher administration in the UK and then the Reagan administration in the US primarily.

I've never understood how soc Dems help capitalism.

Their reforms don't resolve capitalisms contradictions, but how is that making it better?

From what I see is that they substantially materially improve the lives of proles while reducing the amount to surplus value porky steals.

I get some people believe this reduces revolutionary potential but there are dirt poor countries in the world and they aren't any closer to revolution than the west is.

socdems still havent apologized instead derailing the thread… lol

Social democracy is like basically a compromise solution. Calling for the working class to seize the means of production and kill whoever gets in their way in the process will get you labelled a "terrorist" and thrown in jail these days

Rosa Luxemburg was attractive in her prime. Would bang/10.

lol what

Incorrect, what has happen is corporations has shifted production to nations that do not have the taxation and regulation we have and advertise greatly in the west. Corporations are making even more money then ever at the expense of consumerism of 1st world countries while exploiting poorer nations with wages measured in pennies that will never see a Starbuck latte in their entire life nor afford it. Oh, but sure hipster who writes about his life and works in social media is truly a success on the compromise of SocDems as he enjoys how much 1% from the purchase makes a difference to staring children he cares so much about.

A few reasons:

Unlike the 100 or so year old debate over Trotsky vs Stalin where most agree that either option would have lead to similar conclusions, Luxemburg's death represented a very tangible shift of fate for the international proletarian struggle. She was at the helm of an independent revolution, carried ideas that both built off of contemporary theorists while also seeking to better it and make it work for the world she lived in, and most importantly was the next step in the progress of the revolution towards Western Europe (with revolts and such occurring in other countries surrounding Germany in anticipation for the revolution that was approaching). With the failure of the Sparticists, those ideas and struggles came to a grinding halt, and left places like the infant Soviet Union isolated and stagnant.

It showed that socdems, at the end of the day, will actively sabotage the bigger societal changes that will give workers control over their lives. In many ways, the Sparticists acted with the thought that the social democratic party (which had historically been a Marxist socialist party) would support their efforts against the monarchists and towards building socialism, or at the very least the party would stay out of the way. This was not the case however, as the socdems employed literal rightwing deathsquads to kill anyone they suspected of being "too radical" among the left. It showed that socdems are not our comrades and are not to be trusted outside of alliances of convenience for pushing pre-revolutionary reforms, and marked the definative point where Social Democracy abandoned any pretense of socialism.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, Rosa had a qt face and didn't deserve getting a bullet put through it.

kyss bourg

I think this is conflating to different issues. Also the West didn't always outsource and Europe still maintains most of its industrial base.

If the surpluses value for the welfare state isn't coming from porky wheres it coming from? The proles. If that's true why does porky get a tax break whenever a piece of it is dismantled

Alex Jones will never forget socdems

wow what a surprise!

/our guy/

It does, the proles or in this case the civilian is generally taxed greater then the corporation.

So that they can create more jobs for people that don't get services to make a living. Of course that doesn't mean they have to, just that they can.

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If there was a way to do this, it would've happened already. Non-violent reform will not happen because the bourgeois will not allow it to happen.

The only people I hate more than Stalinists and Leftcoms are "Soc"Dems. Where do you live? I'm wanna kick your ass

The DSA tweeted a tribute to Rosa

HAVE THEY NO SHAME

That or it woulda had so much red tape involved it would be next to impossible for it to be an effective means of revolution, see the United States. never mind the fact that what passes for socialism here nowadays woulda been laughed out of every workingmens association from here to Trier and back Remember SocDems and DemSocs, the state has a price tag and the Capitalists have the receipt. And that's before even get to the question of whether or not using the state as a means of revolution is a good idea in the first place.

Democrafic socialists are not social democrats.

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Keep denying it see>>1238012

Thanks for Hitler, KPD.

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a century and socdems still haven't learned anything

A century later and Communists still favor attacking social democrats over fascists.

bitch had it coming tbh

A P O L O G I Z E

to paraphrase Stalin: you are both worse

Well, I'm not surprised by a Communist citing a Nazi collaborator.

Obvious troll is obvious

Yeah, and to someone citing the Black Book of Gommernism

Social democracy was doing pretty well after WWII. And then things went to shit after Reagan and Thatcher with the New Labour and New Democrat (Bill Clinton) shit. Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn are a step in the right direction. Let's focus on getting social democracy back on track. 1919 was shit in the grand scheme of things so I don't see the Rosa thing as a turning point. Capitalism was pretty bad in the 1920s. And things got better after WWII. The real turning point was Milton Friedman, Reagan and Thatcher in the 70s/80s. We are due for an even worse depression than the Great Depression.

Sorry, but I'm just assuming everyone with the socdem flair are either cointelpro or shitposting.