What RPGs did "evil" playthroughs right? Arcanum is the closest one for me...

yet it's the only evil stuff that devs seems to have in mind. Why can't I be a manipulator who doesn't get his shoes dirty? How many of the actual evil people that have existed in history did the dirty stuff by themselves?

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There is this strange thing with killing people that keeps flipping back and forth from good and evil. If god says so or you don't like the group of people, it's good. Otherwise, it's evil.

Star Wars evil isn't nuanced at all.

What would you like to do as an evil character OP? What should an "evil" path be like? I'm genuinely curious because I don't think I've played a game where the evil options amount to more than "fuck you I'm a dick give me more money" or "fuck you I'm a dick just because"

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The problem with a truly evil path is that it would effectively make all quest givers and shops inaccessible. A wanted villain wouldn't be able to just stroll into town like you normally do in an RPG.

I wonder if there is a way to deal with that issue.

Ted Bundy was considered to be a model citizen. He didn't need any help because he did it all with charm and looks alone.

You still got the arm wrong though

Don't get caught or leave witnesses. Solved.

I think just answered that.

Sonic Adventure 2.

Disguises?

Although as someone else mentioned, an actually competent villain likely wouldn't be wanted in the first place.

I think stuff like lying, manipulating people for your own good, trick other people into working for your interests, being intelligent & cunning instead of a transparent mong who tells everybody how evil he is and has to do all the stuff by himself, even the most basic shit.

Viking Conquest. The storyline and sandbox storylines give you multiple options that make sense in-game. The game never outright says you're an ebul person for choosing X option or killing an npc, but it does affect later choices and interactions. It's funny how a game with no story has a mod/expansion with great story telling.

Fallout New Vegas because there are no Morality choices.

Are there any rpgs that let you play as a misguided hero? You think you are doing what is right but you are actually fucking things up?

Nier

It's not an RPG but Hotline Miami 1 did this.
Specifically, you think you're taking down the people behind the phone calls, but you're actually taking down the targets of the people behind the phone calls.

Metal Gear Solid 1
Oh wait you said RPGs not movies lmao

So in other words a Speech build?

Spec Ops: The Line.

Irony.

yes, except that in games you get multiple "good" options and just about one evil (or just grey) option no matter how high your speech/charisma/intelligence is. I just want games to be balanced

OFF
The player himself is the misguided one

lmao

Divinity 2

So basically you're complaining games let you be neutral evil but not lawful evil? Jade Empire didn't do a bad job, imo.

Etrian odyssey I, sorta.

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The issue is that "evil" routes tend to be completely fucking retarded. It's basically your PC acting like a dick towards people just for shit and giggles, no deeper motive or subtlety to it.

A good "evil" character was the Practical reincarnation in PST. Now that's an "evil" route I could see myself playing.

Morrowind.

I've only heard hearsay about it, but I heard they used to be great. Right around the time Sonic Chronicles The Dark Brotherhood came out was when Bioware started a downward spiral.

You heard wrong.

He said "rpg".

From a writing consideration, I would say that it happens that way because if you have a character who, like the best villains, have well thought out and not entirely selfish reasons for their actions, you don't call them evil.
I mean, isn't JC Denton the villain of Gunther Hermann's story?

From a gameplay perspective, I would definitely appreciate an RPG or other game that addressed

and

kind of stuff, beyond a basic "nobody calls the law if they didn't see you rob the guy" GTA thing.
Getting away with horrid shit because you found a scapegoat, or because you're an upstanding citizen by all outward appearances.

lel

Top of the list right here.

I meant to mention this one in my post.
I also thought it made for a great study in how the practical incarnation was so much of a shittier person than the crazy one, even though the crazy one did some shitty things.

Whatever you say, kid.

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But like you said, there needs to be some motivation to do horrid shit that transcends 14 year olds wanting to be edgelords. The audience needs some higher goal they can get behind so they can justify the evil they are committing. Hell, if the writers are smart they can go completely meta with this and call out the players at the end for all the evil shit they pulled

Probably New Vegas. You can completely fuck up the shit of the entire Mojave, especially in Lonesome Hearts.

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It could be for pleasure. Not lol I'm so evil kind of pleasure, but a lot of psychopaths and sociopaths get a rush or sexual thrill from harming people.

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How is he misguided? He's the only guy there with a clear understanding of what is going on, trying to get everyone to stop with their escapism and face reality.

That was a twist? I thought that's what I was doing from the beginning.

I think you're first step to finding what you're looking for is not to look for "evil route" games.

Evil routes are often an afterthought in those games, with the good route being the primary focus. And often the evil routes are implementing precisely to let the player just be evil for the lulz.

There are games where the focus is that you play as the bad guy. Granted a lot of them do the "evil for the lulz" shit as well but if you're going to find games which let you play well written villains I think that's gonna be your best bet.

What a fucking retarded post. Have you considered that writing evil routes in games doesn't have to mean a load of one-dimensional bullshit?

Enjoy your (you), beggar.

In Assault (the Police Station), you follow a lead that traces the phone calls to the Russian mafia's club. From there you assume that the phone calls and the Russian mafia are linked, but you don't know (or care) how. You just know (think) that taking out the Russian mafia will mean taking out the people behind the phone calls.

Well now I'm a (2)
Fight me nigger

And I'm eight. You can never surpass me.

Never change

Don't tempt me, I will spam this thread around right now young man

What ncr citizens if you go for Legion ending?

I believe that the "evil" ending in inFamous 2 is a good example of how to do the "evil" route in games. When you think about it, Cole did nothing wrong. Hell, he even does a pretty good job of justifying his actions if that's the route you wanna go. It's the route that I went (despite the fact that I had been "good" the whole way through) because I agreed with it. He was right that they didn't know if a cure would ever be invented. He was right that they could accelerate human evolution and would be guaranteed to save at least some people. And frankly I like the idea of tearing down the world as we know it and starting anew.

You could make the argument that it wasn't evil at all, it was more of a renegade path than anything (not Mass Effect renegade). Cole was SUPPOSED to defeat the Beast. Cole was SUPPOSED to save regular humans. But in the end, Cole realized that the "good" path might very well be futile, and that the "evil" route actually made a lot of moral and logical sense. It was a tough choice to make, but one that could be made with a fair deal of confidence. All and all, I liked the ending and wish it had been canon (as the developers apparently wanted it to be, but so many people went for the "good" route that they decided to scrap inFamous 3 and make Second Son).

Still, the "evil" route in inFamous games frequently have "muhaha I'm evil for the sake of being evil for some reason". I think Second Son did the evil route better, kind of anyway. I mean Delsin was a bit of a delinquent but he had a good heart. If they had made him more of a piece of shit (especially with his brother) throughout the evil route, rather than just being kind of a dick I think those moments where he was kind of stupidly evil would have made more sense. It would also make sense to me that with him probably already feeling like no one believed in him and was on his side before the start of the game, and now with him being hated by society and being hunted for having powers, even though the "evil" route would still be comic book evil, it'd make more sense. It'd make sense that he'd reject society, and let his power go to his head and fuck up anyone who got in his way.

Unfortunately, the bad karma route just didn't fit with his character, being "evil" wasn't justifiable enough and didn't make much sense with how nice everyone (the old woman, his brother, the other two Conduits, etc) were to him. Hell his whole tribe kind of takes a bullet for him. I wasn't convinced that he was selfish enough to not go for the more "good" route.

Also you forgot one

Aren't those incompatible? You can kill the White Legs and optionally let Graham go all fire and brimstone, OR you can evacuate the Sorrows. If you do the latter the White Legs eventually split up but don't get slaughtered.

I addressed that in the first half of my post. I love with the character having a higher goal, I just question whether you would call them evil anymore.

I don't know how I mangled this this bad.
I love the idea of*

I'm rather surprised no one mentioned Throne of Bhaal, Planescape, Jade Empire or NWN1 all things considering.

Because of those only P:T has proper "evil" things you can do. Bioware is "hurrr I kill you because I can xD" evil.

The problem is you're presented with shades of good but only get the chaotic evil option.

Evil comes in many forms, the most effective has intention.

Good post.

user, why are you acting a dipshit? Can't we have a decent crpg thread for once?

And I don't agree, say what you want about current year bioware but their early games had decent evil paths, enslaving or consuming gods, bullying peasants, stepping on the downtrodden and shit. But fine, how about Fable, Might and Magic, Vampire redemption/masquerade or some of the arpgs like Blood Omen, Overlord or Dark Messiah?

No, they didn't. Unless you count kicking puppies as what evil is all about.

I think vtmb is one of the best because it hits on the most important things that so many morality systems miss, the fact that your choices actually matter. The lower your humanity the more of an asshole your character is, your dialogue options change, and scenarios present you only with evil or less evil options, there's no just picking and choosing to be good or evil when you please.

Gutting your fairy godmother and leaving her stuck and twitching on a pike, bleeding power, blood and water for literal eternity seems kinda evil to me.

Too bad ToEE or Arcanum never actually got finished and we only got these halfbaked cut versions.

Good thing we have fan patches.
For what raisin?
Context matters.

I've never actually tried a playthrough with less than max humanity. I didn't know it affected the dialog.

For example if you are below certain humanity you can't spare the thin-blood who's spilling spaghetti about vampires.

So it just locks out certain options? Or does it give you new ones?

Don't remember that much, I too mostly play max humanity because it gives most optimal options = most exp.

Alpha Protocol

locks out some options, and changes the writing of some options.
For example, when brother kanker is raving about the brotherhood of the ninth circle death cult, a low humanity character will have dialogue options that make them seem interested in joining the cult, or when isaac shows you the snuff film you'll be into it rather than repulsed.

That game could be improved so much by simply making the dialog options more clear, rather than a one word emotion. I don't like having to guess what my character is going to say.

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That's cool, maybe I'll try a low humanity playthrough some day.

It's even worse than Fallout 4, if you can believe it. Instead of a general idea like HATE NEWSPAPERS, you just get choices like "aggressive" or "suave".

Power and greed mostly. Eternal life so you can oppress and rule the land with an iron grip as the immortal god emperor that you become. You also get to deal in slaving, corrupting the innocent so they'll literally join your harem, making a pact with demons or demon cannibals, light genocide or some casual like political assassination.

The usual puppy kicking tier, really.

/thread and checked

Planescape Torment though it's more of a VN.

Because often what vidya portrays as evil is actually good.

Mask of the Betrayer.

One of the endings of Shadowrun Dragonfall.

There's an Apocalypse now game coming up apparently. You don't see a lot of colonel Kurtz types in videogames.
Terrorism is bad but what if you're doing it for the CIA?

There's a reason why most games are stuck in WW2. Videogames are still writing in black and white.

Kill the shopkeeper and take their shit

The kikestarter failed though and they've moved over to Fig or something. Anyway, the game looked like a disaster in the making, overly ambitious and with no clear direction to it.

Yeah, I guess all them edgy teens love playing as the bad guys.

Do you get to bring the rest of your friends?

Dwarf Fortress lets you be totally evil and if you do it right you can definitely benefit from it.

Soul Nomad & the World Eaters

You'd have to be some form of retarded if you thought the people calling you were giving their own time and location so you could murder them.

It takes a special kind of stupid to assume you're not a paid hitman in HM.

Shadow Of The Colossus

Dean was a tottal bro, and a interesting character with knowledge of pre war world
He was just little bit too greedy

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Himmler, the head of the SS actually got ill when he visited a mass execution. It was the first and last time he did an on-site inspection.

Really evil people sit behind a desk all day ordering evil shit get done. But how do you make a game out of that?

Papers Plx

It was a noted fact that mass shootings of Yids negatively affected the soldiers doing it. Even in death the kike finds a way to make life difficult for the gentile.

Oy vey.

Ever played Defcon?

Make a game about siting behind a desk and ordering bad stuff?

Guess what, people usually dont like killing other defenseless people.
Thats why executions squads exist and thats why you dont put that much pressure to carry the sentence on one person
I wonder why

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Why wouldn't you consider them people?

You have to prove they're people first.

Because they closer resemble parasites?

People have empathy.

Dominions 4

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Pretty damn sure Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines did evil right. You can go from very nuanced evil to blatant evil. And the consequences for making an evil choice range from predictable to unpredictable. Only problem is it tracks your morality with a "Humanity" meter but that thing doesn't matter overmuch.

So newborn also have to prove itself? A fetus also have to prove itself to be human to not get aborted?

Im not really sure man, they look like people, they think, talk, breathe, have conscious.
I would consider them people

Do they? What about people suffering from illness preventing them from feeling empaty? Are they not human?

What does it mean to be a human Holla Forums? What makes a human?

Really makes you think
maybe because death camps were only build on occupied soil?

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In a way, you could say that's because most fantasy worlds are meant to be in the "good always prevails" vein. If you're evil and not a retard, you'll act good because good gets the most rewards, while also looking for opportunities where you can. If you're just a dick or a headcase, you'll be a jerk or a mass murderer as described above.

There's really no excuse for shitty grimderp settings like Dragon Age, though.

Kill yourself Mewt

Agree. But the dialogue relies upon the one word choices because of the time factor. Apart from that the writing is really well done. The only thing they didnt take into consideration what would happen if youre being a dick to everybody. You still get saved at the end. A death ending wouldve been nice.

Evil in the vein you speak of, OP, is a libtard invention to explain away different sides and perspectives that the libtard can't comprehend. It will never not be a laughable parody-like experience.

None of them.

Most RPGs' evil option is to reverse the outcome of what you'd normally do (as a good goy) while still keeping the same story/quest continuity.

They just turn the MC into a 15 year old when talking to people, without changing the possible actions.

I can't really speak for RPGs, but Company of Heroes 2 let you play as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

So what's Holla Forums's alignment?
I'm chaotic neutral.

Logistics. The most Jews in Europe lived in Poland, so placing death camps there meant the least effort to put them there.

Because any games that allow for player morals have it on a black and white scale, it's almost impossible to have a game with good moral mechanics.
Instead of morals we should see consequences. Stealing from a shopkeeper and not getting caught shouldn't make your character a parody of evil, but cause the shopkeeper to increase prices to compensate the loss.

As if there's any real choice.

Fuck you OP, what about games that let me go fullblown Tharizduun?

I wanna go ELDER EVIL.

What alignment is Rance even? Obviously chaotic, but I can't decide if good, evil, or neutral.

I believe he's true lewd.

1) The evil route is usually just an afterthought.
2) It is usually just fail safe if your character decided to do every evil thing that the game lets you do. (You can kill any NPC.)
3) It is hard to balance the rewards and punishments to make the evil options feel not like a shortcut or retarded option.

He is Chatoic good, but I could also see him as being lawful evil.