Dude the people should control the means of production

thats why we need a strong one-party state

...

I thought you were claiming to be intelligent

Is your argument that Billy Bob can't run a factory because he's exploited and therefore doesn't have enough money to dress well or fix his teeth? Nice.

fucking algol programmers

No it is that he is a fucking dumb moron who doesnt know how the world or the factory works to be competent for the job.

Something like Americans voting for an incompetent retard to be president

come here and tell it to my face, fuccboi

Are you a large-scale property owner, stock broker, top Fortune 500 executive, or major shareholder of any large corporations?

If the answer to all of these is "no", congratulations, you're one of "the people".

Trump's I.Q. is 156. What's yours?

Yeah, but the capitalists are also people and unlike my idiot boss who listened to my idiot manager who said a month ago it'd take three weeks to upgrade the machinery (he didn't even finish ordering parts we need until yesterday) we actually know what the fuck is going on at the company.

Can't. I no longer exist in this plane of existance due to many years of functional and declarative programming.

I am not saying he doesnt have the brain to lie and act stupid in order to get support from his moronic supporters.

I am saying he is a complete retard when it comes to job qualifications, pic related

Because holding political office is a skill, a craft.

Pure ideology.

hahaha i am sure people believe company Ceos are also full of ideologies and not just blind profit xD

Well he won so you're just going to have to deal with it. Does this fact trouble or upset you in any way?

ugh. I had mental breakdown for two days after my first "date" with haskell. If I'm lucky I'll understand exactly what you are saying in a year.

...

It's not an argument, it's just the world you currently live in. How does this strike you, emotion-wise?

...

Annoyed because the world was going pretty good for people who arent failures and expect daddy government to help them.

He is bringing back dangerous and negative discriminatory ideologies so i obviously dont profit for that.

I dont give a shit about jobs and muh economy since i got a good career and future $$$ wise so what mattered to me was social issues and human behavior more than anything. And the rise of ignorant morons is definitely a negative thing for the world

Private ownership implies private access to the knowledge pertaining to the functioning of an establishment.

Regular joes are not allowed to look into the company accounting because if they could they'd kill the CEO.

Any decision made concerning the company are already carried out by the workers themselves – from production through logistics to selling. Letting them make the decisions themselves doesn't just make economic sense, it is just.

...

I am almost jealous how naive and innocent you are believing everyone is equal.

Sadly if you have been to work you would have realized this is not he case, the difference of skill and intellectual capacity are huge, that is why some people remain forever petty workers while some go higher and higher.

I can see that.

wew

Tbh yeah some people are stupid but with a decent education system, a well nourished and housed populace, etc., I'd say average people are perfectly capable. Right now porky has no interest in creating an education that truly prepares people that kind of important shit. It's assumed that anyone who will ever own the means of production is already going to private school anyway.

Plus, the smarter ones would just move up in the ranks, finally able to thrive in genuine meritocracy.

...

...

not to mention

Look at that picture again

Do you think you being this mad about it is going to alter the outcome? Or do you just like to whine about everything, on a nearly continuous basis? If the latter, welcome aboard, leftism is the ideology for you.

Makes ya think, huh?

tbh i cant even tell if this is trolling

Some people arent interested in that though even when it is free.

two people with the same education on the same job, sometimes one can be incredibly better than the other.

The problem is int he abilities of each person, and some just arent that intelligent.

I mean it is really nice to believe everyone is equal and can be saved but i have honestly stopped believing that.

Anyone who has had a career in a serious field can see that just from the people who are entry level like you at start, the things you can do vs the things these people do is scary, like you are questioning their intelligence

vs

Yeah i am choosing the 2nd.

Really gets the noggin joggin

...

This is how the majority of people live in the nation with the "free-est" markets.

keyword ;^)
Minority was always smarter and more capable

...

I am talking about the average joe who is like the word says AVERAGE

Who is the average joe?

And Average Joe totally could run a major business. Virtually all of the management that requires expertise is already handled by employees: actuaries, accountants, research analysts, etc. All they do is make arbitrary decisions to decide what direction the company goes in.

Hell, Trump is probably more capable in general compared to other billionaires. At least he knows media well.

Sound logic there, OP.

The real decisions are made by the oligarchs. The closest thing to actual power the president has is in controlling his image, but even that is done by speechwriters and handlers who do what will win political points.

if capitalism didnt work then it wouldn't be the system we have now

/thread

Hoo boy.

It does work. It just doesn't do what is in the best interest in the majority of people.

Any society will have the system that best serves the people who decide what system to use.

...

Management isnt something everyone is capable off, i ve seen many retards shouting and trying to act bossy because they have no idea how to manage people and excuse themselves with "being tough is good" even though it is clear they are just doing it to make themselves feel better

Researchers might be capable to make a decision but a manager is someone connected to all and would be in the most informed position to make a choice

Read Micheal Young faggot

...

...

Funny, that's how a lot of bosses are like.
So how about we make the competent people managers instead of the ones most willing to suck up to their boss.

I have a work and eyes, far better than reading books

OOOOORRRRRRRR
You dont need wealth to be useful

Only the researchers would most likely qualify for decision making, but you still need someone to manage people and bring the unit together, unless you manage to find that ultra rare team of people that works together that well and have good communication which is extremely rare. Especially when more and more people are added

in a silly stereotype of an example

So how about you use them for something useful and fucking buy a book and read it?
Yes, and those sweatshop workers over in China sure are useful. The thing is: being useful doesn't mean you'll make enough money to live decently. Or even survive.

so close yet so far

also
Oh I'm sorry. I didn't know your personal experience trumpet that of a collection of experiences and years of political struggle. In the mean time since your so fucking smart do you mind telling us about string theory and your latest discoveries surrounding it?

Failing on one society is a subjective thing based on conditions of the society

I meant being useful as in capable, not a mediocore sweatshop worker, a useful person will become the head of a sweatshot worker sooner or later and climb the ladder, an average joe will forever remain a sweatshop worker.

See the difference?

...

Holy shit maybe you should consider your words before making yourself out to be a giant retard

Btw I'd love to hear your opinion on automation. Should all the unemployed simply be allowed to starve to death? They'd no longer be producing wealth, and social programs would just take money away from the "smart guy who deserves it all for owning it/ being smart"

So in your strange reality a useful worker is the worker with the strongest oral suction abilities?

hahahahahahahaahha

Of course, the thing is the current system doesn't bring the best people to those positions. A better way would be to have the managers be elected by the workers they manage, since they're in a far better position to see who's a good leader.

...

That's not at all what that picture was trying to convey. Try again.

christ kill yourselves already

GOD NO, dont ruin it and make it a democracy.

I get your point, if the people below you are satisfied you are doing a good job and i agree, that should be the goal of every manager. But turning it into a voting competition begs populists to start focusing more on pleasing some morons than be good at their job and also having lesser power because they cant do something that will displease le workers.

We just need an independent agency to receive anonymous complaints to come and check of the management system, if people are not happy something is wrong, but that doesnt mean it is always the manager's fault, he could have been used as a scapegoat for their problems which people are known to do even though a competent manager will simplify and explain the situation well. So the only time things might be unfairly bad would be for some autistic disagreement like for example someone being atheist which really isnt that relevant and such a system would start promoting those useless traits instead of the important ones.

Not saying it is a perfect system but democracy sounds far worse due to all the possible negative after effects.

It is still wrong, if you are smart and capable you will be appreciated and you will get a job, intelligence is visible with Autism Level tests.

Having more education wont help that much expect when it is a requirement but by smart i dont only mean autistically smart at math or some other subject, i am also talking about being smart psychologically, knowing how people work and manipulate them that way.

Yeah sorry, morality has no place in business.

A well read person with average intelligence will be infinitely more useful than a genius who sits in his basement and jerks off to anime all day.

The thing is that's how it already is, except those morons are their bosses.
If the workplace isn't for the workers, who is it for?
That's in a lot of workplaces. Means nothing. Hell, a lot of the time it isn't even "anonymous".
Funny, because managers are often fired as scapegoats because of their bosses' fuckups.

If a captain is mostly busy trying to pander to some autistic crew demands instead of keeping the ship up and running efficiently you got a problem.

Your job isnt only to keep people happy, that is mostly a politician's job and we have seen how it has turn out

Clearly.

Why would the crew demand autistic shit and the crew keep the ship up and running not the captain

...

yeah and also
and also
and also
and also

You realize you are in children's tale land?

This argument would make sense if every co-op ever was a failure
However that apparently isn't the case

Because not everyone is capable of management, many will start getting visibly mad under pressure, start lashing out, have petty fights with others for autistic differences.

Not everyone is capable to be a manager, especially if he gets annoyed over petty shit like for example getting triggered because some guy is gay or atheist or whatever irrelevant traits like these.

And if you decide to turn it into a democracy those irrelevant traits will become more important because muh gay only ship, muh anti gay only ship where people forget about efficiency and focus on irrelevant traits because captains would try to get into power by pandering to stupid traits since that is way easier to do that prove your skill.

It so happens that these blowhard suits main interests is the efficiency of the ship, which is also yours.

Also that usually makes the job easier for a captain because "sorry, but the higher ups keep pushing for x" to avoid responsibility.

Read a book. Anything except Bordiga.

Have you ever actually held a manual labor job? People dont give a fuck about gay this lgbt that shit if they cant fuckin survive off the toil that they are coerced to do. People have priorities and survival and better living conditions are at the top of that list

No, their main interest is in making money and sucking up to their bosses. It's clear you don't know what management is like.
Also, why the fuck wouldn't the crew be interested in the ship running well if it's their ship? If the ship runs well it only benefits them, especially if their earnings are directly tied to how well they do, which they are if they own the workplace.
The thing is, all the flaws that you say there would be with worker ownership are already problems now. At least with worker ownership people have a say in what happens in the place they literally spend half their lives in, and if things go to shit it's on them.

and?

its like the concept of rationality does not exist in your mind. Every one lower then you in society might as well be a drooling baby. If petty differences like these cause so much trouble, than we should all be at war with our neighbors right now. At a certain point even fucking dipshits have to rationalize what is appropriate.

Surprisingly a lot of pirate ships worked as co-ops

How naive.

reliableplant.com/Read/26236/iq-identify-assessment-workplace

Ofcourse not, that's why capitalism is crumbling right now. Because everyone just cares about their own ass.

You sure about that? Cause politicians and society says otherwise, if people didnt truly care then politicians wouldnt focus on such irrelevant shit, but they do because it WORKS.

And that is how management will become if that democracy is added, people will ignore about efficiency and vote for whoever panders to them first, are you new to democracy or something?

You do realize the company owns the ship right? It isnt "their" ship in any way, they are being paid to fulfill a job role, just like the person in management is paid to manage, that is his job, nothing more.
And for the maritime industry for example, past management was utter shit but things are getting better, that is why i dont believe it needs to change, because the quality of management is improving slowly and surely and turning it into a democracy will ruin that shit

That will always be true, no matter how some people try to tell themselves they are selfless or other bullshit people will always choose themselves first(expect in the case of some ultra big emotional attachment)

If your system isnt based on that fact and instead tries to brainwash everyone into "caring" for others then you failed already because you based it into a non existent belief where people will care

Thats why the economy is the most talked about policy every time some politician wants to get elected oh wait

I've never met a man so intelligent that he could outsmart a bullet or a rope. They seem to go about the same way as a stupid man does.

yes
We have the capacity to be caught up by the superficial and often we are. However this is not evidence for some objective reality you have constructed. Humans also contain the great ability to not be dumb shits, I've seen it with my own eyes. We can go both ways and evidence for one is not refutation of the other.

How many texts have you read concerning psychology

capitalism works, prove me wrong. OH WAIT

good, who in there right mind will be taken for such a ride as happens under capitalism

Yes, and I'm sure he has a 24" cock too.

...

You should stop speaking for others.

Jesus this ideologue

And tell me, how many of those average voters understand a thing about economy?

People who are clueless will remain clueless even after reading an article about economy online or listening to some politician who says something that makes sense.

Unless you are a professional economist you got no true idea what the things they are saying will do, so once again you are voting based on who crafts the more comfortable lie than logic and facts.

Democracy has never been about the best and most efficient choice, it has been about manipulating people to get yourself elected, and facts are not that often a good manipulation tool compared to other methods.

You are letting that comfortable fantasy of the "greatness of humanity" influence you, yes humans can do good things but more often than not it is easier to do something bad than do something good.

And like i said, now those traits dont really matter much expect few autistic cases, but if democracy is added it will turn like current politics.

And you should stop lying to yourself

Yeah, we should change that.

Yes mr. Freud, I'll get right on that.

So you are telling me the politicians don't focus on irrelevant shit but instead something that affects all of the masses because the masses care about shit that causes real observable differences in their lives? Its almost like in the analogy you used the crew would care about and demand that the ship be run in a safe and efficient way because that affects them in a real and observable way before they would care about irrelevant shit.

you talk as if you live out side of the human condition. Nice to meet you interstellar traveler.

this is kind of a useless claim unless you can give specifics for each detailed time so…….

If these traits exist and cannot be ignored than democracy is the least of our problems.

once again you are simply making a claim about humanity from your perspective. I am not claiming to hold a broader perspective of humanity, but I know for a fact it is about as objective as yours. So why should these """"arguments""""""" you make about the feebleness of man be taken seriously?

If you believe today's politician and democratic system is working fine then of course you will not be able to understand my example

What board do you think you're on? We're here because things are not working fine.

You seem to be misinformed if you think leftist want the bourgeois democracy to be extended to businesses

Yes
because it's democracy that's ruining society, not that other stagnating system of which we are unwillingly thrown into the frey of

Some people will take a leadership role and be regarded more highly in decision making, this is natural. This doesn't mean I need some clueless MBA yuppie shitlicker telling me how to do my job when he doesn't even know what my job is.

...

Are you describing Marx?

good job

Capitalism works great. Just not for us.

Like what? Bombing middle eastern countries? The only qualification for the job is having a political agenda that appeals to most states in the union.

People already know how to operate the machines at their workplaces, no need to be a genius for that. Then what you need is basic maths to calculate how much to produce according to your needs.

Yup, this thread somewhat proves it. Can't even stay on topic.

What is capitalism, user?

Yes, no vote for you OP.

and communists are the ones accused of being misanthropes "because we don't let people run there own lives"