All the Bordiga shitposting here actually got me to give reading him a shot. Pretty smart guy, all things considered...

People like doctor doom don't actually exist in the real world, or almost never do. Vanguards are rarely ever forms of benevolent dictatorships, as being in power over a state has with it a certain set of interests which will often run counter to the rest of society.

Neither does communism. And it might never.

There is inherently nothing "benevolent" about the vanguard. It never pretends to be. The vanguard will make sure you suffer if it aids the cause of the communist vanguardist(s), for the doomed man that is the revolutionary knows no fixed notion of humaneness. He has discarded it. All he fights for is the result, no matter what.

So does dragging everyone through a symbolically pleasing experience of counciling, therapy and other veritably "democratic" or "participatory" policies which serve only to make palpable the true thing we all must do to annihilate capitalism and permanently put it in the dustbin. You would simply risk your chance of success because you're too afraid to really push the button, and all the while what you're doing is truly only making your process look good, for where there is no communism, there is still a materially existent share of suffering.

And "counter to the rest of society". Counter to what? Their definite interest in a post-capitalist society? Are you being willy nilly here? Would you let a classcuck's indecisiveness about joining the cause towards communism halt you? Be honest. Be brutal. Be true to your cause and your truth, or you are simply deceiving yourself, or wose, a detriment to history and a liar.

But this is exactly what I mean by benevolent, you expect a vanguard to fight for the ideal of communism as the result no matter what, for the "greater good."

Ah yes! But putting a bunch of university students at the helm of society through the "organic" party functions is such an improvement! Give me a break.

The point is not to drag everyone out to a meeting just to put a rubber stamp on the status quo of society. The point of true democracy is giving everyone a credible power over the laws they live under. This is the only way to truly represent the interests of society, for society is made up of every individual, and you cannot divest representation from the individual.

But what about your leftcom society? Well, I can tell you exactly what the interests of the party would be. If it is your goal to achieve communism, then you'll simply say whatever crap you do to society is in fact communism and anyone who says otherwise will become a counterrevolutionary.

I am all for a post-capitalist society, but here you are forgetting the lessons of political history. One party states are historically unstable, do you know why? Because if something goes wrong, there is only the party to blame. Yes, let's have a revolution which doesn't listen to the reactionaries holding us back, but we must be careful to build a society from that which leads to authentic human emancipation. That is, we create the framework for communism for society, but we shouldn't create a situation where we have absolute power, for with that comes both absolute corruption and responsibility, a recipe for disaster for a society.

We must immanentize the eschaton!
Of course, psychopathy is in-built to vanguardism. Deal with it, classcuck.
Therapy and counselling is only apparently democratic and participatory, it's the last shield of Capital, i advise you instead stay insane!
A detriment to History*.

But, uh, if it's not inevitable how is it History?

It's almost is if it's a blank slate into which anything can be written, and due to the logic of the revolution, the Stalin figure will inevitably emerge, writing his own personality into that slate. Of course, Bordigists and the like do not care, they are enthralled by their own mind, thinking it alone can bring about the rapture, attempting to program their doomed man vicariously through their scripture.

"Greater good". Once again, no such thing. As the vanguardist, I am a huge fucking autist. I'm tired of seeing history be stagnant in capitalism. Seeing people be idiots. I want to abolish capitalism just like I want to finish the last puzzle piece. Fuck any notions of "good" here. You will live or die through my hand and I will achieve communism or die trying.

I ask not for your opinion. I ask you only to be honest about your perogative. On whether you truly want to end capitalism, or at least want it enough for you to dare press the button when it matters and by definition annihilate your own humanity.

It precisely is.

Once again, what more is democracy for than but to function as the digestive for whatever status you are under? The transition of A to B is concise, violent and completely autocratic. Truly, even the simple Engels quote of "there is nothing more authoritarian than revolution" should suffice, but to truly see how self-defeating and limited democracy is, simply look at the logical conflict between asking everyone for their opinion under A, and transgressing from it to B.

What interests? These are, by Marx, subjective. A classcuck is consciously still enacting his metaphorical "vote" to be classcucked. I have no use for him. He will serve my goal of communism; my truth, or perish.

There is no such thing as the atomized individual, seperate from his influence. It is the ideology and the ideological aparatuses of a prevailing ideology and economic system that shape his very tendency to tolerate it or not. I have no use for such appeals to the individual.

I can wipe my ass with "representation" to begin with. I once again do not seek to ask the pervert to put on a condom; he will wear it or waste my time learning to wear it himself, or at worse catch and spread another STD.

No such thing.

Pic related?

Precisely. And I will either honestly doom myself to my convictions and properly use the "counterrevolutionary" line for the goal of communism, or fall to opportunism. There is no in between.

Absolutely.

I might be psychopath, and relish it, but I know for sure I am the only truly non-classcucked subject of capital. For I fully assume the brutality necessary to "de-classcuck" myself and the rest of us, for I know that unless you all get a vaxination you will ruin us all. And yes, I do fluoridate the water too. All for communism.

Getting feisty, are we?

Cheeky. Appealing to my operative super ego. Nice!

It's only evitable if psychopaths like me, or any undiagnosed psychopaths, don't get their Way, or have no time to get their Way before capitalism ruins all chances of there being much left to complete the next step of History's Way.

Almost, but not quite. What Bordiga correctly assesses in his critique of the conscious non-vanguardist, is not that the conscious non-vanguardist cannot succeed. On the contrary, the non-vanguardist is much more likely to garner support and an operative base for his goal, if anything. What Bordiga says is that the conscious non-vanguardist will abandon his non-vanguardism the moment he truly effectuates a change, for it is precisely in this moment of true change that he can no longer pretend not to be the anti-democratic monster he is, ripping to shreds the very fair condition of democracy and leaving it behind him!

7 in the morning

You're an admitted autist though, you have no empathy. You are the ultimate subject of capital, you are the ultimate atomized individual, so much so your "individuation" has lead you to imagine yourself to be its overcoming, its antithesis. You cannot STAND the fact your history books are open-ended, have a conclusion not yet written. You are driven by the autismal craving for intellectual fulfillment. Thus you fantasize the future historian gazing back on you, talking about how you "actually did it, the madman hahaha"

You faggots are that predictable. Hate to break it to you but bourgeois psychoanalysis is mostly bunk, which you might know if your copy of Ecrits didn't have the pages stuck together.

Did you just manage to both call me an autist and take seriously my joke about fluoridating water for communism?

I'm interested in hearing from you if you could clarify for me, since you speak of a "bourgeois" psychoanlysis", where the matching "proletarian" psychoanlysis counter-part is?

Also, give me a list of which private property Jung, Freud, Lacan (and maybe Zupanzic or even Zizek) own(ed) and why this should be of influence on their ability to think of proper frameworks of the human mind. You know, being apart of the proprietor (bourgeois) class, and all, this is vital information if you are serious in convincing me that posturing French perverts have ruined my communist mind with their anti-democratic pseudo-science.

What?

Proletarian psychoanalysis is empathy and learning about people via experience and reading a variety of sources.

So you've left that too? I thought making communism a hippie jam festival with knitting potemkins was the worst you would espouse.

Once again, give me names. Or something.

Fuck off, mate. You've got to be baiting now.

How inspiring. This is your brain on historical determinism, folks.

You keep using this phrase, "press the button", as if there is a switch you can flip that activates communism.

not an argument.

I'm not talking of bourgeois democracy. If people actually had power over their own political economies, we'd see capitalism dissolve in a fortnight thanks to the contradictions.

Perhaps, but if your goal is "permanent revolution" under that definition then you can count me out. The goal of revolution is a new society.

Direct democracy is incompatible with capitalism, but certainly the abolition of private property should be something we forcefully bring about regardless of public support.

So? They are subjective interests. What of it?

t. Rousseau

Oh so you're just a psychopath. If it came down to it, I would do everything in my power to stop you from getting power.

There is no such thing as abstract society either.

If communism produces no greater freedom or less alienation for me, then I have no use for it.

Then you can kindly go fuck yourself.

You don't know what the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie entails? It's all permeating. Pffft. Step off, or even, as much as I'm loathe to suggest it, read Bordiga lmao.

I know it's unbearable to you to not have the special providence of a line of great men "Thinkers" picked out by the globally interlocking class of professors but it makes sense to us, so you can suck it.

*Provenance

You've employed a new scary buzzword for the other buzzword you had (psychopath). Give me a break, man.

I'm autistic, but you've gotta try to grasp metaphors. Metaphors for the non-existent grey area between a society of property and one without. There is your button. I can connect the dots for you like this all day long, but you have to know when to stop making me repeat myself. That's not nice.

It's not a pipe either, if you know what I'm saying.

"Bourgeois" here serving to describe one type of dominant ideology that is served by democracy to legitimize it. "Proletarian" democracy cannot exist, and even if you like the ring of it, this pre-postcapitalist "proletarian" democracy, which is the only place where it could exist, would still only serve as enabler of the mechanism of that which prevails.

Yes, revolution. Not democracy. And revolution is not democratic. Do you get it now, or do you want to get a Cornetto with me and talk it over again?

Well, if this isn't the point where you yourself hit the Real. I don't know what else to add, quite frankly. You didn't really elucidate the Real, but you're definitely "there". Come on now!

We will enact them objectively. In the sense that we will drive them through as, at best, subjectively the "most adequate". Or we will not and fail. Simple.

You've got a lot of nerve comparing my verbotic explanation of the Bordigist critique of the democratic principle as Rousseauan. The Bordigist critique never even pretends there is any such thing as freedom in the representative vote at all. Heck, the Bordigist critique makes pasta with the notion of "freedom" to begin with!

Yes, thank fuck. I wish everyone could be this honest with themselves. I am not worth a vote in the democratic process; I have my object-defined notion of Truth and will push the envelope if I ever have the chance. Properly posit yourself as my enemy in this fight towards a postcapitalism, please God. It only makes things easier for me, and honestly the both of us.

The only thing more synonymous with "society" than "abstract" is "stupid". Society is a mess. It exists only because we shape ourselves a nice triplet of psychic ontologies through language. Bah!

Well I happen not to really care or take into account your thoughts on this specific thing, pal!

A bit rude, but thanks.

Once again, you calling me an autist is appearing to be ironic when you make a post like this. Unless you were baiting all along, and I do give you enough credit not to believe that. For what it's worth to mention this, I do like you and appreciate your wasted time in thread. Comrade!

Bah, I poop on Lacan. Hate the guy. Can't stand listening to him at all. He's pretentious and purposely esoteric because he knows it annoys me and he knows it got him laid. But he wrote some good shit and I use that to my pleasure.

You utter retards can't even keep your story straight. Straight from the Bordavad Gita playbook. You are the contradictions of capital, euphorically vocalized.
So you deny the effects this dominant ideology has on the entire socio-psychic structure, yet elsewhere you say:
Yet somehow the liberal university system of (usually, well off, pampered and idle) intellectuals is somehow in stasis, hypobarically isolated from the dominant ideology, immunizing you from critique from muh class party (ie the actual proletariat). wew

Also, argumentum ad buzzwordum. You are a historical determinist. That is, an insane eschatologist, existing only as one hissing hydrahead of an anachronistic and by now, largely parasitical crypto-class.

You've misinterpreted my posts and ironic posture so much and are unironically projecting so much that I doubt you're being genuine.

But I regardless still want you to know that I know that I did pique your beliefs somewhere, and that you did mine, and that if anything you let me elucidate my own stance better by constantly asking me to explain myself (for better or worse).

In the end, I give your word salad (bait?) a nine out of ten. And hope that you may be genuine in replying my question: were you baiting all along, or are you baiting now or have you been baiting in specific instances?

My mode of discourse doesn't play by the rules of your liberal civil marketplace of ideas. I aim to short circuit the dominant ideology and its catchetists, by whatever means. I'm not here to help you on your personal quest of self-actualizing enlightenment, all I do, I do for my class, and I find your kind repellent, to be perfectly honest. Make of that what you will. After all the author is dead, it's all just a big Rorschach bro.

Is there a translation of this one available online? I can only find it in Italian.

Okay, you didn't reply to me there. So I'll stop the fun.

Back to discourse:
this appears to reveal your immuting approach to revolution. You treat "your class", in the unconscious, as something you do not want to let go. Perhaps you wish not to ever get rid of capitalism; there is a perverted suspesion to be found in living through class struggle and seeing other struggle in it, and you want it to last. You've become comfortably imbued with the ideology of democracy. Democracy, which stands for making palpable that which prevails, at all costs, and as smoothly possible. You are too "human", if there were such a condition. Too naive, too kind.

I'll come back to this thread tomorrow, but it's late here so I've got to quickly finish my drink, masturbate and go to sleep to properly face the firm, life and the democracy which prevails.

There are none, unfortunately. I've been meaning to team up with some libcom.org forum nerds and translate it, but I like the comfort of my armchair and it will take some time.

Well, it sure must suck to not have an Autism Level of 156.

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Wait, is there more than one leftcom on this board?

There's at least three.

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