Authoritarians must be purged with nuclear fire. So long as the spook of authority exists, we will never have communism...

This is bait.

Tanko is right.

...

Okay, to be fair, it was a half joke, but tankies really do need to die

It isn't a state to have multiple mutually run, collectively owned enterprises co-ordinating resources for community services.

In that case, every charity is a state.

What is hierarchy-free about the association if you murder entire groups of people for their political beliefs? Seems kinda fascist to me.

What is murder about disabling mindless tools of the bourgeoisie?

As in, just because people voluntarily agree to do things, does not mean they are forced to do those things by a central authority.

The existence of collective effort does not require coersion per se. The absence of private property allows the conditions which make collective effort mutually beneficial.

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My parents are mindless tools of bourgeoisie. They aren't evil people. This makes up 85% of the population

That corner store guy who sells you your milk is a mindless tool of the bourgeoisie. So is EVERYONE who isn't actively engaged in defeating said bourgeoisie which probably includes your armchair self so quit with the fucking edge.

I'm of the opinion that it is possible to liberate most of these folks from their mindlessness by changing the material conditions in the society. This can be done by organizing revolutionary unions to organize resources in a way that results in transitioning to an economic system that focuses the MOP into the hands of the workers. Unions must fund co-ops, they must make sure to snatch up all new and upcomming technology with copyleft licenses, and they must execute strikes that cripple private industry.

However, tankies and radical authoritarians as a whole are a threat to this movement, and sadly there doesn't seem to be a libertarian way to deal with them.

This is some shit tier theory. The rule of the majority is still a hierachy. Someone being better at something than someone else is a hierarchy.
Capitalists exploit the surplus value of labor for themselves. A vanguard party doesn't. Didn't recall the Bolsheviks owning palaces for themselves. Get your definitions right. Bureaucracy is not capitalism.

If you ever wonder why lots of us here say there is no difference between anarchists and tankies, you are why. You don't see others as humans caught in the system, you see them as tools, as inhuman machines that all need to be purged in a violent bloodbath.

However, I for one, am not apologetic and in denial of my views, and will gladly kill phychopaths like you who want to murder 80% of the human population for wrongthink. A bit of blood on my hands is a fair price if that means we can have a free socialist system where nobody is being killed for their political views.

Tankies aren't a threat to shit its a dead movement.

Neither are anarchists.

The libertarian way to deal with it is surprisingly libertarian. Debate should be out in the open so it can be proven wrong.

Is it any wonder the Alt Right spawned in dark places where you can say anything? The rest if society silenced them and then they grew like a cancer until they could not longer be silenced. This is the price of repression it will ALWAYS come back to haunt you.

Unless you are Castro. Based Castro.

I think anarchism is silly, but in anarchist theory "authority" and "hierarchy" are defined and approached in a clear way. It's just that anarchists don't know their own fucking theory, so they themselves are the propagators of their own memes. They only ever speak in extremely abstract and vague language

uh hello, dumbass, literacy just called and it wants me to tell you: "read a motherfucking book". First of all, meritocracy and democracy are in no way related, there is no fucking way in which just happening to win a particular vote makes someone "better". Also, explain to me how a fucking flexible democratic system with no built in positions of authority is in any way hierarchal?? The whole fucking point of a direct democratic system or even a confederation of democratic systems is that hierarchy is eliminated by virtue of there being no position of power above another position off power.

good fucking meme. I bet stalin and his chums benefited the proles so fucking much and not their own lavish bloodlust, eh?

How do you stop hierarchies from forming themselves again?

You're absolutely right comrade. Repression will indeed just create more tankies. I guess the better solution would be to figure out how to win them over.

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Tbh, I just created this thread because I was really angry at tankies shitting up the board. Irl I would just hope that trying to change material conditions in the world will itself be a material condition that helps idiot bootlickers to cease existing

There is hardly any tankies shitting up the board, is it mainly edgelord like you who haven't even read the theory they claim to follow.

same tired old tankie meme, and the same thing more openly fascist types do. Claim to not be the majority, but are. Go fuck lenin's corpse you fucking tool

Im not a tankie you dunce, and the only fascist here is you, proudly proclaiming you want to genocide anyone who doesn't want to adhere to your political ideology,

Why are people even Authoritarian

Why do they love being told what to do for no reason

I have no fucking clue dude, but it's really annoying that they do. Why cant they just die?

You need to be kidding. They've been fucking shit up, but I suspect that some of them might be Holla Forumsacks.
This anarkiddy is annoying though.

this is getting sad, Holla Forums. you're just running on trial and error now, stringing random words together. what are you even trying to accomplish?

maybe next thread you can use the Paradise Group from OPM as your template and insist all non-NEETs need to be purged. maybe that will shatter Holla Forums! might as well give it a shot, right?

I dunno. I am a stounce anti-authoritarian though, because I dont want to be killed by genocidal maniacs like OP.

Because any society that has specialization of labor needs hierarchy based on merit and seniority.

So what's the material condition(s) that allow for power vacuums to form and thus allow the return of 'unjustified' hierarchies?
What do you consider the state and authority to be? And what are some anarchist solutions to destroy the state and maintain statelessness?

Why

Why does an authoritarian society produce a system based on merit?

Do not trust Holla Forums. It runs filters that change what your post says. Watch. woman hateric. See? I typed M I S O G Y N I S T I C there. But it says something else AFTER I POSTED!!!

Holla Forums filters, censors and edits what you say!!!

It doesn't, it produces a system that rewards backstabbing and rewarding cronies for installing one wherever there is a power vacuum.

observe the above behavior and tell me WHY it is not okay whatsoever to purge authoritarians.

No

You can look up the list of wordfilters mate.

And they all just filter it to what it means.

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Are you capable of defending your point of view? Because last Anarchist ended up saying that until he has a functioning Socialist state, he is not going to support Revolution.

I still don't get how he intends to get a Socialist state without Revolution.

Are you the same?

I did nothing wrong tbh

MISOGYNISTIC

oh look it works

Also OP are nazbols okay

no, pls purge yrslf

By building up mutual democratic businesses and federating to provide services until the state is super ceded by sheer economic irrelevance

For sake of efficiency on work and education.

It is not inherit for the system but generally meritocratic structures are more efficient than ones run democratically or on some other basis.

Fuck off Commie, your ideology and Anti-fa are a joke.

I hate your antifa cunts so god damn much

That's rude

Do you like fascists

while at the same time building up a widespread propaganda base, engaging in active disruption of the capitalist mechanism through acts of sabotage and creative protest.

I mentioned meritocracy? Nice strawman kid
Such a system can not work until we have fully automated luxury space communism. You'd constantly have to agitate and expropriate private property since there is no enforcement of the abolishment of private property. Nestor Manchos territory was basically a confederation of Kulaks. This is because people have different abilities and capabilites and will automatically leave those in power that happen to be talented in managing and allocating their shit. Have you ever worked with a council or a cooperative yourself? Have encountered the absolute human disdain for micromanaging leaking pipes and cockroach infestations? If you seriously belief in voluntary association you'd better off being an AnCap because Anarcho-Communism without coercion can not exist. You'd need councils above councils, which eventually translates into elected officials, which is de-facto statist authority.
You're the fucking memelord kid, when you seriously think Stalin went to bed every evening thinking about how many peasants he will slaughter tomorrow. You still owe me the palaces and yachts that they owned. If you don't have them, I'd assume the surplus money went into streets, factories, roads, education etc. which I see as beneficial to proles.

No, I don't actually support genocide or repression of any kind. Like an user earlier in this thread said: it only attracts people to doing the restricted action. The best way to stop unwanted things from happening is to allow those things but make them really hard to do due to material conditions.
Just the same, the best way to deal with tankies would be to make it just really really materially undesireable to have hierarchy, and such material conditions will exist most likely in a society controlled by democratic confederations of workers' unions.

Also, I, like that other anarchist do not support the magical tankie pipedream of spontaneous revolution. Any fucking piper tooting his flute diecieving the masses to revolt is just some ashole trying to steer the power vacuum that exists in a heirarchal society towards his favor.
Instead of that pipe dream, I support gradually transforming the material conditions around me by trying to create revolutionary co-ops and unions and by slapping copyleft licenses on all the technology that I can.

God I love Tankies.
They're my second favourite kind of fascist

But why is it efficient?

The world over authoritarian systems are plagued with the inefficiencies of bureaucracy ,centralisation and the accumulation that goes with it. This is a massive bar to productivity.

Which 'meritocratic' structures are you reffering to that have widespread efficient power bases?

Anarkiddie falseflag?

Nope

OP how do we fix the antifa problem?

I`m not saying that authoritarian systems are inherently more meritocratic nor that they are uncorruptable.

I`m not sure what you`re talking about when you bring up power bases. Base of what?

no.

hmm, what could it mean?

I wasnt strawmanning your argument, I interpreted your "someone better than someone else" as talking about meritocracy.
not an argument. Addtionally, there is no "union above a union" in anarcho-syndicalism, the way it works is unions form superunions based on the resource exchanges and rules that they agree on.
really makes me think.

Fascism is against the "muh free market"

Start a similiar movement but purge the sjws, then tie it back into the original movement. Kinda like what the IRA is trying to do. Splinter up then come back as the main group.

But we are not moving towards this libertarian direction. We are living in the post-ideological age of micromanagement and problem-solving with massive technocratic elements within administration due to our ever-growing anticipation of systems and patterns that need to be controlled. As IT progresses, we'll be able to quantify, reshape and allocate material and immaterial commodities and structures which per definition needs centralization. You can help seize the technocratic moloch from the bourgeoisie and use it to benefit humanity, or you surrender it them and wait until you get the chance to set up your libertarian mutualist society on Mars or whatever.

No I don't hate anti-fascism, just antifa

Fix them or destroy them please, they're all just cancerous as fuck.

Plus they make us look bad from all the beatings they get

You done goofed up.

Spontaneous revolution is Anarchism. ML specifically doesn't accept this and has Vanguard to manage things - which is why real Anarchists call ML authoritarian.

> I support gradually transforming the material conditions around me by trying to create revolutionary co-ops and unions and by slapping copyleft licenses on all the technology that I can.
It's called Reformism, not Anarchism.

You are SocDem.

O.P is a fucking retard who has never read Marx but the board would improve were it less tolerant to tankies (i.e. Khrushchevites and Brezhnevites not all MLs) and nazbols.

More often than not they just feel like Holla Forums cross posters.

lel
notice how the only non vanguard state communist revolutions wind up getting steamrolled

He's an ancom he can't tell

They consider anything they don't like to be "fascist"

wew fucking lad.

then says

fuck off

Does the concept of revolution fail you comrade

ITT: irony, but also authoritarians are triggered af and are exactly the same as false conscious proles.
FC proles have no idea what capitalism is, so they let it happen. Similiarly, authoritarians have no idea what authoritarianism is.

What's your greatest accomplishment? A county in Spain that collapsed? Dirt farmers taking pot shots at third world government police?

yeah and whats your greatest accomplishment? Ruining communism for an entire century or more? Creating global capitalism? Crushing communist movements?

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Give it to the workers and then keep order with the state.

I am keking my way through this thread

Not an argument

You are not Anarchist, you moron.

okay, sounds good so far
OH SHIT NIGGA WHAT ARE YOU DOING

hurr durr le diddly derp
way to be an illiterate moron as per usual.
Anarcho-syndicalists do not try to get shit done by means of reform, rather, they get shit done by forming revolutionary unions. Its gradual yet revolutioanary. It's not compromising with the bourgeoisie.

Winning the space race?
Bringing socialism to half the Eurasian supercontinent?
Actually literally anything aside from "muh catalonia you guise"?

neither is calling me triggered, retard

Revolutionary trade unions are a meme in realpolitic.

Doesn't have to be coercive though does it

Capitalism can never be anarchism.

except they didnt bring socialism to anything, they brought fascism, and sullied the name of socialism for centuries to come. Also who fucking cares about sending shit to space with no intention to colonize or do something useful? Its nationalist spookery.

You are a retard.

WEW
E
W

We need another red army to purge these guys like they did in Ukraine.

What you mean by that? If nothing is coercive we don't need centralization anyway. It's more like that the reality of the 21st century is coercive in itself unless you live on an island in the Pacific.

How THE FUCK are you going to do that within the neoliberal capitalist reality of our time? This is doomed to fail. This can only work when you have a Marxist-Leninist vanguard party in charge that caters to the conditions in which something like this may fester.

This

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

No, but apparently it fails him

Authoritarianism for thee, but not for me!

here's my plan:

and btw its much more of a plan than "hurr durr papa stalin will resurrect as a brand new cult leader and lead le epin vanguard"

Why would they do this? They can just start automated coops themselves and make more money. No need to help others.

Give one good reason why they would do that.

Are you actually retarded?

Your entire plan comes down to "it will work because everyone will adhere to the principles of my movement" which is the same as "muh nap".

In this post you imply and and don't deny that

it's called experimentation you dumb anarkiddie

Heres the catch 22, that itself is a form of authoritarianism. The hearts of mankind must change naturally for a communist paradise to function.

Well obviously a rule of the union will be to collect dues and use them to empower other workers with co-ops and automation.
Of course, this means that the initial people I start the first co-op with need to have the same principles as me, but after that it should be self enforcing.

As for copylefting, they should do it because then everyone in the unions will benefit from inventions instead just the person that invented, therefore everyone can enjoy technological advances more frequently. Additionally, keeping new tech away from private industry helps to suffocate private industry.

Also, yes, private industry is indeed less willing to automate than public industry because the surplus value extraction is being used to line pockets, value isnt being collectivized specifically to automate.

liberals: but if u kill fascists ur fascist too

kys

Since proper education in addiction to experience with direct leadership that is not disturbed by needs and desires of said workforce is more efficient and can be planned for longer term.

The irony is lost on you.

How is it self enforcing? What systems have you got in place to prevent a less politically minded-majority to grow over time and don't particularly care about other workers?

Why, apart from you and your few ideologically incorruptible friends, would they not keep it to themselves? What systems have you got in place to prevent freeriding unions who produce commodities but dont copyleft, but copyright their intellectual property?

Why wouldn't a cooperative sell their IP to corporations? It helps them grow and get richer.

Sure, they do it for other reasons, but its still not what you think. They will automate if it can lower costs. Cooperative automation doesn't lower cost necessarily because it doesn't fire workers and thus free up a portion of the budget from wages to lower costs. The only thing automation does in a cooperative is possibly increase productivity per worker (which also happens in normal bussiness) and it removes certain jobs altogether. But cooperatives wont fire automated-out workers, where normal businesses will, so normal businesses benefit doubly form any automation they do.

Furthermore, since competition in the marketplace only exists on price, you won't be able to simply "out-automate" the other corporations. They automate as soon as it will save them money, which means that in most cases, your automation are only a monetary cost, not a monetary gain. And if you still manager to undercut them, they can lower their prices far more than you would be able to, because they can simply lower the prices and make less profit, and their costs will be lower than yours (labour wise) because they both pay minimum wage overseas (sub-minimum wage).

*because thye both pay as little as possible, even going overseas to pay lower than you legally are able to in your life.

You guys are like little babies, not knowing what you do and being angry and envious of grown ups capable of getting things done. All that is left for you is moralism and hypocrisy.

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whoever made this has terrible taste in architecture

What's the point of anarchy when you still have to worry about prisons and censorship?

The Gherkin is a shit show of a building

You're a faggot. Anarchists need to destroy hierarchy, not autists of varying ideologies who are irrelevant outside of fringe internet.

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hey guys we get rid of the greedy tyrants who employ force, and extortion satisfy their greed.
that will be bad