Does anyone else think the Left should start to own up and adhere to some of the most retarded, dystopian characteristics that the Right attributes to us?
We should scare them a bit by actually praising "collectivism", saying that egalitarianism is an end in itself, that individuality is overrated, start using terms like "totalitarian democracy" etc, and try to actually give lucid arguments in favor of these.
Except…
We don't stand for any of those things, so why would we?
But collectivism is cool, egalitarianism (in the normal non-pol sense) is a good idea and individuality is overrated.
And libertarians don't stand for "freedom", or "liberty", these are just euphemisms for capitalism. So are the Fascist's "honor", "nation", "tribe" just attempt to articulate the collective frameworks and moral imperatives necessary to manage capitalism.
Sometimes sounding cool is more important.
If there is one thing the National Bolshevik's understand, its edge appeal, I think this aught to be cultivated.
Not exactly but I do think that the left should at least embrace an 'authoritarian' and collectivist aesthetic. As much as we can see hope in reformists like Corbyn and other progressive politicians.
We need more in the way of political uniforms, strong slogans and paramilitary activity being built up over the coming years. If the rise of right-wing populism signifies anything its that the dissatisfaction with neoliberal consensus is great enough for the public to be swayed from the kind and civil politics which characterise liberal democracies.
While the alt-right now tries to imitate elements of the liberal consensus we ought to be one step ahead of them and weimar republic style out-nazi the nazis by building up an ideological edifice of strength and concrete solutions which are a genuine breaking away from the current liberal hegemony.
Sounds alot like the actual outcome of this would probably end up being a bunch of edgy larpers.
There needs to be a lot more organization on the ground that has to take place first before you can have an effective paramilitary wing like the SA or some shit like that.
And in modern days with cameras and surveillance everywhere you cant really get away with being brutal street thugs. The answer is to just get the police to shoot at you in a way that looks as if you are the victim of senseless state violence and then real violence will be legitimized after this.
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individuality is the cornerstone of culture, without you have nothing to build on. just ants building ant hills
Libertarians describe us and our ideas in the coolest terms possible, particularly when they're trying to discredit us.
if both the left and the right simultaneously owned up to their lunatic fringe past(s) i would be elated
if Holla Forumslacks and leftists blatantly celebrated totalitarianism and their respective fringe extremist death cult beliefs they would gain a massive overnight following
Thats false. Culture is a set of shared believes and habits by a group of people, not differences.
Regardless, it collectivism vs individualism is a false dichodomy, I said it individualism as an idea is overrated in western culture, with massive emphasis on being "unique" and "an individual", while collectivism is shunned as "ants on an ant hill" and "evil demon commies".
IE youre retarded. Unless you think "collectivist" societies don't have culture.
I'm not saying to form militias of the 3 local commies and start marching down the streets of your neighbourhood. Of course we have to build party structures and a base of support, which is our first task in revitalising the left.
However as we achieve this we must also make sure that all of society is aware of us. The MAGA hat is a powerful symbol in its own way, its a kitsch, burger-worthy return to political uniform. Whether its red armbands or anything else people out on the streets visible can have a huge influence and permeate through society.
I think its something we should with time embrace as we set about building dual power and subverting the bourgeois state.
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This is kind of what Marx did. Wasn't "Communism" mostly pejorative until he picked it up?
I dont think it was but then again I am not well versed in the cultural sensitivities of the late 18th century.
Yes, due to the toxic image of the Paris commune that ultimately ended up influencing Marx.
As for OP, if you've read Zizek, you already know that we will never ever win and they will because humanity is doomed. A great failure of the left is its constant obsession with utopia, something a truly intelligent person knows is impossible but the obsession with it always causes what happened in the Paris commune, executions of the non-believers or supposed non-believers or believers who don't believe strongly enough.
Another unfortunate fact, the greatest number of conflicts that nothing to do with being related with capital but ethniconflict. It's over.
Ethnic conflict is always economic in nature.
lol Paris Commune was like '71 and the Communist Manifesto '48, and he probably used the term before that.
I am a libertarian (in the social sense), so why should I support authoritarian aesthetics?
Merry Holidays to you too, Obvious Nazbol
Also cooking food is a revolt against nature and so was agriculture
Honestly, if the revolution is successful, I intend to go all Stalin on most of you guys and send you to the gulags/killing fields. Don't make retarded excuses about how you'll stop me either. Nobody (at least on this board) can get past my charisma and the way I inflict fear into others. You will all fall in line and die for the red revolution painted in your blood. Only a few chosen will be allowed, and only from a background of heavy manual labourers like me and my forefathers. It's unfortunate but I know that nearly all of you have never really truly laboured hard in full honesty in day in your lives, you can never be a true proletariat so die next to the bourgeois socdems and liberals in the camp. I'm doing the right thing and you know it. At least know value I got rid of the disgusting bourgeois elements like yourselves and the pigs who gawk at us from their decadent estate.
I'm also a libertarian and nonetheless like Zizek says we ought to free the aesthetic from its connotations and use it for our aims.
We should foster organisation and discipline in the working class if we are to succeed.
We should aim to be decisive and brutal in our approach mass politics.
Yes, leftypol. come to the righteous side. Say it with me. "Post-fascist socialism"
We certainly need to combat stupid myths about leftists being "effeminate, cucks, omegas, obese, scrawny, middle class college kids, starbucks drinkers" etc
The left outside of Holla Forums already does. See feminism, for instance.
ISIS and National Action mainly came to prominence via edge appeal, that shit actually works way better than you think.
I think this will be next to impossible.
Per much I like fascist aesthetics and rhetoric being cryptosocialists behind the mask of fascism can't be a good plan unless we're really desperated.
I honestly remember one friend saying "I just hope this never comes up in a debate, I don't know how I would defend him." That is seriously one of the worst books of any ideology. It has single handedly led more people away from being an ancap than any refutation of the ideas has. This is why the smart kids in that camp eventually gravitate to David Friedman's Machinery of Freedom and eventually drop the shit altogether. Rothtardian philosophy is more shallow than a wading pool and his social ideas are just laughably bad.
Any Marxist should know that there's a dialectical relationship between the individual and the collective. There is no conflict.
Egalitarianism is an end unto itself. Liberté, égalité, fraternité.
How is that particularly left, or untrue?
That's why we need to gulag liberal marxists, anarchists and all kind of revisionist scum.
Kinda disgusting when people put you in the same spot with some naked anarchists or edgy wanna-be kids with horse fetish.
Wait… you're serious?
no bias here then
Exactly, it's structuration, irreducibly reciprocal. Political individualism is more of a bulwark against hostile intrusion by the malignant state, which has little to do with the community through and against which the self definition emerges though, it in fact legitimizes such a community.
Aren't Marxists you flamboyant faggot.
gulag yourself.
I do. Liberty and individualism is fundamentally at odds with leftism. Equality is unnatural so we have to destroy nature. Whenever individuals are allowed to exist unmolested hierarchies emerge. That's not ok. To achieve equality requires harsh, and sometimes even inhuman measures, but a rejection of Marxism would be folly. Leftism is too important to sacrifice at the altar of reality.
hi pol
What's your point?
That we win by embracing the "oppressive" temptations. Freedom is a spook. Power matters. If we have power then we can impose whatever ideology we want. In this case leftism.
I think we should still push the message that Capital has no place in a truly free society.
I convinced my former AnCap friend of that, he's a full on Anarchist now.
It's called being Nazi's.
Aesthetic check
Brutal and edgy check
Socialist Check
Zizek has nothing on Hitler
yes and the left should also reject the open border crap since it only alienate working class people
thanks KKKomrade
Commie moonman songs when.
But how do we adquire power?