Cartridges are superior and disc fags know it

Well OP did mention a problem that the N64's cartridges had

Cassettes are the best storage medium, you plebs.

you might as well call them old umd's

hipster

It isn't a meme. The only reason for a cartridge to have load times is if the console doesn't have enough RAM to load the assets the game needs instantly.

Probably would have happened by now if discs never became the dominant medium.

And marginally more expensive games and less space.

Nope.

Yeah… No. Expired licenses, shit like Konami and P.T. and shitty download caps are big drawbacks.

Disc cases can also look nice on shelves, by the way. Physical media in general is superior due to its longevity and the fact that you can resell, borrow, auction, or do whatever the fuck with it.

Not only that, Amazing Spiderman recently got pulled from the WiiU eshop and you can't even download the patched for it anymore meaning anyone who buys it now is totally fucked.

mah cenobite

OK, that's a new level in dumbfuckery.

These games had expired licenses (or faggy quits from soundtrack guys in Scott Pilgrim's case) but if you bought the game previously, you can redownload AND update it as much as you want
Removed from PSN storefront, but a proxy trick allows redownloading

This Spiderman situation is new for me. Even the update for a legit previous buyer doesn't work? Goddamn, that's ridiculous. And here I thought P.T. was the worst case…

Maybe you are too young to remember how cassettes actually were. When loading games from cassettes, it either worked or more usually it didn't and even when it did work the loading times were fucking horrible.

never again

If cartridges are so much better than how come you can't watch blue rays on them retard?

If you bought digitally and downloaded the patch before hand you're fine, but you can't download the game or the patch anymore. New buyers are fucked and the only hope for the properly patched game is for pirates.

how many goatses can you store on a cartridge tho

Yeah man, just look at the DS - it used carts and piracy was practically nonexistent for it, right?

N64 has no games
I bet you voted for dumf too!

It's expensive piracy because you have to buy a third party utility to play anything on it.

Unless you mean emulation, which is an inevitability for all consoles and wasn't possible until well after it was dying.

Hardly, the very nature of video games as a hobby means you have to invest some amount of money somewhere down the line to actually engage in it to any real degree. Compared to the price of legitimate games, a flash cart it's practically a steal.

3rd party piracy equipment really has to start ranking in the thousands before it becomes prohibitively expensive.

Nostalgia thread.

First post to make me laugh on Holla Forums in days.

cassettes was the WORST storage medium ever, for both games and music.
FUCK THAT SHIT.

Cartridges are pretty cool, anything that is a physical medium that can be inserted into a slot like sd cards and memory cards do have that special feeling of putting a vhs tape into a vhs player which some people haven't experienced and soon to be a lot of people, which isn't too bad since time is moving forward.

...

We've already got cartridges good enough that the 3DS and now the Switch will be using them as their game-storage. 3DS games can get into the 3-4 GB range and probably bigger. Though, 3DS probably still uses cartridges because they're the latest of the Game Boy line (no matter how many times Nintendo says the Game Boys and DS systems are different things they're really not) and Switch is probably gonna use them because of the nostalgia factor, or as a result of mashing their console and handheld R&D teams together.

See pic related

I'm a retard

What kind of cart?
Internally a cart is a circuitboard with exposed headers on one side, so you can stick it in. It has something to store the game, something to store saved information and occasionaly extra stuff, like graphics chips.
Using modern tech, what can we do with a cart? We could use a storage solution similar to an SD card, which would give us a fuckton of storage. We could add NFC, for cart->cart data transfer by touching them together. We could add IR, for handheld game communication. We could add a coprocessor or graphics card, but have fun with those draining your battery if it's in a handheld. Alternatively we could do a Vita and have tiny, thin carts which are no more complex than SD cards.

You can do a lot more with carts, but you'd have to justify having the cart slot in the first place. Personally I'm fine with discs for console and carts for handheld.

tiny little piece of shit carts which were easier to make copies of. if the console has any kind of storage other than the cart or access to the net it doens;'t count

I think Nintendo tried something a bit like that with the pokemon red/blue remakes, which came with IR add-ons for the GBA to replace link cables.

forgiven.

Pokemon Black2/White2 had IR sensors in the carts themselves. I think they were used in tournaments to prove you weren't using a flashcart.

Yeah they came out with wireless link-devices a long while ago so you didn't have to cart around link cables and do some non-euclidean geometry to get them all hooked together proper, but only a few games actually supported the wireless stuff. I remember later Mega Man Battle Network games could also use the IR link.

Primary use was for that Pokewalker thing but that's a clever idea for legitimacy to check for the IR sensor on the cartridge.

They tried it even before with the GB Kiss for the GBC, look it up.

I just did but I'm honestly more amazed to find out that you could also buy a fucking sonar attachment for your game boy.

Optical discs will continue to be cheaper per unit and probably per GB, so carts aren't coming back except in portable applications where durability is a primary concern. And even there, they'll just be glorified SD cards, encrypted to pretend they can stop piracy.

But user, aren't disks both 0 and 1?

So if I had to make space management thanks to Nintendo's brilliant idea of 8 or 32GB flash space that already has a chunk taken out by the OS and deleted the game, it's basically lost money. How fucking brilliant.
Good thing the Wii U's been busted open now.

...

Discs don't necessarily have to be be disc shaped

Maybe, but with cassettes you could press the pause button ever so slightly and make the music go faster.

Forgot something, Outstanding Phaggot

Ending up ruining the tape.

oh my fucking god

it's getting nowhere near any of my disk players and especially not my bd writer

Not sure if underage faggot whos trying to be hipster, but cassette was unironically worse than CDs. I own an actual Commodore 64 and a datasette and this is more or less the following procedure for loading programs from cassette;
10 LOAD REM this will take about 10 minutes20 PRINT "Press Play on Tape..." REM This is what it will say, then press play on tape

The tape drive actually had a little second counter that told you how far you were on the tape, some tapes stored multiple programs, in order to load for example, program 2, you had 2 options; one was this
10 LOAD "#2" REM This will tell you to press play on tape and then continue loading the tape until it reaches a header titles "#2" it will then load program #2 until reaching the data footer
OR alternatively, since there is a fast-foreword on the datasette drive, the tapes manual it came with will usually say omething along the lines of "Program #2 starts at 123 seconds" so you know to fast-foreword the tape to 123 seconds instead of having the C64 laboriously do it for you

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Non-disk shaped CDs do NOT follow the Redbook Standard though

同性戀者

To add to this, a lot of computers at the time could actually read data much faster but had to slow down for the tape deck. There are tools out there to convert cassette audio to make it much faster, so a 10 minute game loads in 30 seconds at most. A cheap music player works better than a cassette tape.

The 3DS is different from the Gameboy line though. The Gameboy line was a single console line because it retained a level of inter-compatibility (Some albeit not all Gameboy Color games could be played on the original Gameboy and original gameboy games could be played on consoles that came out as late is 2004

The music still has to be played in sequence though, if you drive it too fast it could be unreadable. If you try playing a C64 tape on an audio cassette player (or open a .tap file in something like VLC) you can actually hear the program, it sounds like an old dial-up modem. Mostly because dial-up modem sounds were also data being played over a phone line to the ISP

I'd say they dropped physical backwards-compatibility in favor of digital but the only way to get your hands on GBA games with a 3DS is to be a pirate or an Ambassador. I primarily mean the DS line as a continuation of the Game Boy line through having Game Boy compatibility at all while also having a roughly similar physical makeup. Only system I'd truly qualify as being different from the Game Boys is the DSi through having no cartridge port for GBA games.

The audio on a tape is stretched out to make sure that any corruptions in the tape or deck don't make it unreadable. The computer itself can read data much faster than the tape deck can provide.
Unfortunately I can't find the program anymore, but it was called Project OTLA. You'd feed in a .tap file containing the tape data and it would compress it into a .wav.
I've only done it with a Speccy, but the same idea should apply to the C64 just fine. Embed related is a guy loading a 5 minute game in around 10 seconds.

Sure a 2tb is gonna cost ya. But the technology is there, and has been viable for almost a decade.

Games on vinyl when?

Where the hell is the center of mass on that thing? There's no way that can spin over 1500 RPM without exploding

In case you haven't been paying attention, cartridge tech overtook even Blu-Ray years ago. About the only thing still going for optical media is its low production cost but cartridges are catching up fast there as well.

Flash cards =/= cartridges

it's weeb shit, it doesn't have to make sense, they will buy it and put it on display without using it ever

There was a PCI based VHS player used for digital storage invented by some Ruskies if I recall correctly but its extremely rare and never made it to the States, VHS could be possible in a manner similar to cassette storage.

EEPROM is very much the same as Flash memory, EEPROM just uses much larger storage cells than flash

Why in the fucking world did that make a comeback after so many years?

the fuck are you talking about? Vinyl literally NEVER DIED in the first place. It was always around, we will always have audiophiles, live DJs, and gold records. Besides, the idea audiophiles hold that vinyl produces more natural sound than digital, vinyl also has the advantage of being played with much simpler equipment (you don't even need electricity to play a vinyl record) plus you can do cool shit like embed related

The Action Max did that, but all its games were just light gun FMV games.

They're functionally identical in that they both just deliver ROM, but cartridges can have extra hardware for added software features (Super FX chip, VRC6/7, etc).

also this, can't deny the literal existence of audiophiles with $300 valve preamps and $500 headphones and diamond-plated audio cables, just so that they can listen to fucking Neutral Milk Hotel and Flaming Lips re-issues

say-gay for >>>/mu/ post

Cartridges are expansive, and that expense either gets passed along to us in the form of pricier games, or taken out of the game budget, resulting is worse games.

Cartridges USED TO BE expensive. a 4gb flash chip on a BGA package costs about 4 dollars from factory, even less to actually manufacture. The price of EEPROM, Mask ROM, and Flash were driven down rapidly in the 2000s do to the rise of small consumer electronics

Discs are a cheap way to fuck consumers over and though they MAY have been viable early on, these days they're relying more and more on install data. Discs are the ONLY reason you have to sit there and wait 50 hours to play a game because data installs. Because of this desire to not make games with ridiculous load times and the fact that discs simply can't hold as much as cartridges means they're worse in every imaginable way. In fact with cartridges you could make game-to-game hardware changes. Remember when the SNES had the Super FX chip that allowed it to play Star Fox and Yoshi's Island?

You can argue that it's a price issue, but in reality you're just full of total horse shit. The Vita and the 3DS both use cartridges and they're both cheaper than their console counterparts.

vita and 3ds are cheaper because they're handhelds and handhelds have usually been cheaper.
I also like how you glossed completely over the PSP and it's use of discs.
why do you have to make an autistic post to prove your own worth?
why can't you get a hobby?

Face it, the future is a play store where you can buy games and download them directly onto your console's SSD.

The UMD was shit.

Best medium coming in

That's not an excuse.

Because the PSP didn't use cartridges. It used discs, and had data installs, and had long load times, even LONGER than it's console counterparts.

So when you get proven wrong you lash out and act like a child and start calling people autistic?
You're the one who sounds autistic to me.

The future is grim indeed.

The real future is cloud computers playing the game in their servers and really high res & low latency video being feed to your screen.

In fact by then everything will be server based, you will not own your files, you will not own your software, and you will not own any game, access to everything will be limited and managed by corporations.
This is the future you choose.

You mean something consoles are notorious for even in this day and age?

Who can forget?

Actually Cartridges sucked, But modern cartridges are basically just SD cards with encryption or locks. they are superior to CD.

Yes, but even still, Cartridge load time would be better than disc load time. You can't change the speed that a laser reads a disc without damaging the disc. Cartridges don't have a problem. Switching to cartridges would completely remove the need of data installs entirely and would push for bigger RAM in consoles because they wouldn't be restricted because of goddamned discs.

laser disks will eventually die making your console a brick. cartridge or a hard-drive makes it last as long as you can keep it.

Once that becomes the main method (and data caps suck even more) the games will probably just be interactive movies even more than they are now so it's not a big loss.

They are more durable, but flash based storage can still fail. Hard drives have mechanical parts and should be periodically replaced, too.
Installing SD loaders for Saturns or Dreamcasts is definitely worth it, though - cards are easily replaceable if they start failing. Not so much with proprietary cards like the 3DS or Vita cards.

There's no need for that shit anymore because they can sell you a $59.99 usb gizmo that plugs into the usb port on the console and does all that.

And console manafacturers are in love with spinning discs and so is the game buying public, you aren't going to change that.

no shit. now CDs are HDD and cartridge are SSD.

back then though, you didn't want some expensive ass, low storage ssd rom.

I bought a pre-owned copy of Nier for PS3 today, but for some reason isn't loading on my PS3. I assume it has to do with the light scratch along the surface. Anyone know how to fix?

apologies for off-topic, was better than startign my own thread for this

Toothpaste.

I remember SFA2 on the SNES, that game had load times in the middle of a fight.

I think the scratch was too deep for that. Gunna return it.

Are you ignorant or do you make it a habit to jump into a conversation in the middle of it?

The thread made me remember that particular game.

You will never be able to make cartidges cheaper than disks. It is physically impossible. One is a slab of plastic with a thin layer of metal, the other is a complicated configuration of solid state memory, printed circuit board, and the remainder of solder and plastic. It's just not possible to get cheaper than a disk.

Well, as the user before me pointed out. Consoles are notoriously bad at having ram. It wasn't the cartridge's fault it couldn't load enough data onto the console to prevent load times. It's also the developer's fault for not optimizing the game enough.

And? In another 40 years disc wont be able to keep up with technology. We're already phasing them out in the land of computers in favor of digital distribution.

It's either digital distribution or Cartridges and you'd rather take the retarded route.

Yep, I remember how SNES cartridges were pushing it with new memory boards and all, I think SFA2 was 32Mbits and apparently that was the maximum capacity they could allow back then, still I think SFA2 and Killer Instinct were horrible experiments.

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Playing Saturn games without discs is hyped to hell but no one sells anything. The drive emulators, Rhea and Phoebe, cost $130+ and are made by some dude whenever he pleases.

The cuck in this video hasn't released shit.

An Action Replay with Pseudo Saturn pre-installed runs $40-60 on ebay, or you can do it yourself for $30.

Your post is so fucking dumb, where do I begin?

You think in 40 years disk space won't keep improving just like it has for decades already? You think somehow it will just stop progressing to the point where a vastly more expensive production of cartidges will win back the day? Not a chance in hell. The only place a cartridge makes sense is in a handheld, because phyiscal size is more important than cost of storage in that case.

There is a reason Microsoft got absolutely fucking shredded to peices the second rumors of a diskless always-online console hit the internet. Just because major cities have fiber optic doesn't mean you should cut out a chunk of your potential market by denying access to games to people with slow or no internet access.

You need to stop posting

How would a modern cart look like? In the 90s they were blocky hunks of grey plastic. What would you do different?

Cartridges were better because they had less storage space and forced devs to be efficient and not waste time on stupid shit like videos.

Modern cartridges will look like thicker versions of a 3DS cartridge if the Switch is anything to go by.

How does iomem invalidate what I said? If SFA2 had iomem it wouldn't have had loading times, now would it?

I don't understand how your post has ANY relevance to anything I said. I hate digital distribution. That's why I want to change over to cartridges because Discs aren't cutting it. Were you born retarded or did your parents just drop you a lot?

You said there are two possible scenarios but neither are true. Disks will remain because of low cost and the flaws of DD. Disks will continue to grow in capacity and remain vastly cheaper than cartridges ever will be.

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Is this a troll? I can't tell anymore.

Both are true sadly. Even now it's hard to name a single game on the Xbox one or the PS4 that doesn't require data installs. It's to the point where a majority of games are now owned digitally. Digital distribution is the main seller for PC games now and it's quickly overtaking the console market simply because Discs can't cut it.

Yeah, and you know what? That wont solve jack shit. There is only so much data you can read through a shitty laser. The only way you can force it to read more is to make a stronger laser which in itself would make it more expensive, but it also would degrade discs way faster, which is another thing, discs are flimsy as balls. They're fragile as fuck and you can't make them more durable without running into a shitload of problems with hardware actually reading it.

Meanwhile cartridges don't have any of these problems. They're hard plastic casing, they have instant access since they're essentially an extension to the console unit's storage, the only actual restriction is the console's hardware, which can even be modified on a cartridge to cartridge basis.

The difference is minimal Discs are 5 cents a pop now because they're an outdated medium that has stayed long past it's welcome. Most PC builds don't even factor a disc reader into them. The jump to cartridge wouldn't have any massive effect on the price of games either. The only people this would cost is producers, not devs, not consumers, but the people who mass produce this shit. For example both the 3DS and the Vita use cartridges but their games are priced at 40 bucks a pop with only a few exceptions. Much cheaper than their disc counterparts on the WiiU and the PS4, even the PS3 and Wii.

Audiophiles are the hipsters of the audio world. Vinyl does not produce a more natural sound, it colours it. What has happened in the shift from analog to digital is the way music is mastered, in other words you have to master vinyl prints differently to CD's. Considering the mamoth of songs written for vinyl in the past you're going to get this difference in sound when copying from an analog source like vinyl to digital. THAT is what these audiophiles are noticing (all analog recordings lose something when recorded to another device) so the only way to fix this is to go back to the original recordings and master them to modern technology. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about. I'm sure when digital speakers become a thing (yes even in this age you still need a DAC to listen to music because all speakers are analog) this sound may change again.

Games being installed to the hard drive is exactly why disks will remain in use. It's simply a cheap distribution system now. Nothing loads off the disk while playing anymore, it loads off your hard drive disk. The disk is just to let you get 50GB of data quickly, and then after that only serve as a proof of purchase to launch the game.

You're right that the cost of cartridges wouldn't be passed on to the consumer, because doing so would piss off consumers and lower sales numbers, but you are a fucking fool if you think manufacturers will ever, EVER go back to expensive cartridges with intricate printed circuit boards for home consoles exactly because they would make LESS PROFIT and it is the exact reason it was abandoned in the first place. It's the reason the PlayStation completely kicked the N64's ass, there was more profit to be made from selling games on a disk than on a cartridge. Raw market forces will always prove you wrong.

No shit faggot, because as I already said the deciding factor there was the need for small size. Sony tried cheap disks for the PSP and it wasn't a good idea for a lot of reasons including size. Your home console does not have this size constraint, thus the cheaper method of distribution will always win, and the cheaper method will always be disks, and even as digital distribution grows in usage the disks will still remain because they won't want to eliminate potential customers with little to no good internet access to download the 100GB+ games of the future. If we end up in a scenario where, say, the PS5 is DD only and the XTwo still supports disks, the XTwo will have a serious advantage in the market purely because of that.

it looks nice on display
it feels nice to put it on the turntable
the sound isn't as different as people claim but it's still very good

You mean these? We're getting there.

No it isn't. It's why it's dying.

and digital distribution is cheaper. See where I'm going with this? If physical is going to survive then it needs to be practical and compete with the only real competitor and that's digital distribution.

They're not expensive. Again, the 3DS and the Vita, and now the Switch is joining them.

Stop inflating the issue. Discs only continue existing because a retarded tradition. It was a popular trend way back when because it was cheaper and offered a better alternative for games with huge space problems.

Nope. The reason the PS kicked the N64's ass because the N64 was a poorly designed system that was intentionally hard to develop for and the PS was more open to developers and didn't have Nintendo's moral police breathing down their necks. The only reason Nintendo followed suit was again, cheapness at the time.

The cost of discs and Cartridges aren't that far off these days. Cartridges are not only getting bigger but also cheaper by the year.

And data installs and ridiculous loading times, and the fact that they're weak as fuck. It was a battery drain like nothing else which contributed to the PSP barely succeeding and not even coming close to a competitor to the DS.

This is what I'm saying. It'll be digital distribution.

That's already happening though. physical sales are on the decline and digital sales are skyrocketing.

Again, just fucking look at the PC market which adopted Discs because of cheapness early on. In the last 10 years physical sales have literally died. The only physical editions are glorified activation keys so you can downlaod the actual game from a website.

How can you be so goddamned ignorant?

just sell the games on M.2 SSDs

If by SFA2 you mean Street Fighter Alpha 2, those loading times were used for data decrunching. If Capcom would put uncompressed sprite and sound data (well, not uncompressed, but in a format the SNES can use natively) you would have no load times.

I take it that's the reason why the Neo Geo has massive cartriges, all it's data is uncompressed

It never died and it is still handy if you're into tape to vinyl shit, so no digital fuckery but depending on the files/tape used it will always have a better dynamic range than CDs or DVDs. Otherwise it is pretty fucking useless. Bluray or DTS are the best way to go now.

Cutting out disks in the future means cutting out home console customers who don't have access to Internet speeds required to download 100GB+ games of the future. Hell you already see piratefags on this very board complaining about 50GB downloads. Putting it on the disk means you've delivered them the data they need at the moment of purchase. Accomplishing this goal will ALWAYS be cheaper via disk (with a manufacturing cost of 50 cents or so) than cartidges which would be several dollars at absolute minimum. When you produce several million copies of a game, the difference in profit between 50 cents and a few dollars adds up fucking quick.

Again, the moment the mere RUMOR of diskless always online consoles from Microsoft surfaced it got shot down so fast a guy lost his job over it.

Will DD become the dominant way to buy games on consoles in the future? Yes. Will disks ever be phased out completely? Not unless the industry goes full retard or everyone gets free high speed internet from a socialist utopia. Will disks ever be replaced by more expensive cartidges? Not a chance in hell.

Just look at what is happening with the new consoles being released with hard drive disks. People keep asking why they don't use an SSD, and the answer is FUCKING MONEY. They can use a 1TB drive for a fraction of the cost of a 1TB SSD. Slower loading times? They don't give a fuck.

who are by far the minority of video game consumers these days.
AGAIN PC MARKET.

You keep mentioning it but like everything else you're spouting single sided bullshit to prove your point.

The rumors going around for Microsoft's console were that only a part of the Xbone's downfall and lead them to getting xboned. 1:) They allowed physical games but they would be tied to your console. 2:) Always online and you couldn't play games offline and 3:) Sony's constant stream of insults towards them making fun of all the rumors.

It's already the dominant and it's killing discs, dumbass. Our only hope for physical is cartridge, and we're only going to get it if nostalgic jackasses like you give up on your shitty medium.

But consumers do, and so instead of waiting a shitload of time to load the game from either:
A) disk
B) slow ass hard drive
C) slow/non existent Internet

They are going to either stop playing games or move to pc and pirate/emulate older shit that the same companies they're taking their business away from want to charge them $20 to play a game released 20 years ago that will STILL load slower from their hard disk instead of the fast ssd inside their computer.

Just make a disc of cartridges, problem solved.

Nintendrone detected, the PSP outlived the DS on Japan and if there was any reason for its lack of success in the west that would be its lack gimmicky double screens and heavily marketed casual games like Nintendogs or Mario Kart DS.

Just fuck my optical drive up.

I want to cum inside Laserdisk-chan's slot.

PSP had a great library but not really a lot of day-one-buy system sellers or flagship titles is my guess. Hell, over here it's more known nowadays as a fantastic emulator/homebrew portable that just so happens to have a library of games.

not with those devs making a 50 gigs+ per game releases

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lel, just play Pokemon Moon and you will see how well that worked for loading times

Otherwise you are right

If console game continue on existing into the future with physical releases, cartridges will make a comeback, they will look different smaller more efficient but they will comeback with a vengence, disks are bad and unsustainable, this will also eliminate the need for downloading the games on to the console too.

Retarded reality denier and console warrior detected. The hardware outlived the DS in japan because the 3DS was coming out, Piracy on the PSP was huge, software sales had been tanking for a LONG time, and no one was excited for the vita. Plus japan is just one market. It was never as popular in the US or EU.

Its lack of success in the west because it didn't have good advertising. Sony made several retarded design decisions and the only draw of the PSP was that it was a powerful handheld and it turned most western devs off, which left eastern devs and they didn't provide much else besides the DS' scraps, most of which ended up not getting translated.

I don't think you realize what causes success.