WoW's Legion expansion sees players drop to below WoD numbers and the entire dev team is undergoing "massive...

So how much should wow drop for it to die ? 3 million ?
Would blizzard can it then ? 3 million is still a lot of cash flowing your way.
Or are they just stalling until they can release another game and move their fanbase there ? They did that with the wc3 to wow transition. But they don't have a product as solid as wc3 now.

its below 3 million, if you want to know the real number of subs look at how many copies it sold

Blizzard in their butthurt count chinese players as active subs which is wrong because china has special system for paying (they pay per minutes played) and they shouldnt be counted as active subs

Thats kinda sad really

WoW is in the worse state of its playerbase and it STILL has more than other MMOs

Is the genre just shitty?

well blizz sells gold via tokens now along with pets and mounts. also you can buy race changes, server changes, gender changes, etc. Considering some games survive on that shit alone id imagine blizzard is making even more they did despite people paying for game time with gold.

Got a link?

They can restructure and shrink the development and support team to keep it profitable for a time. I doubt they would can it or finally pull the plug until it's down to under half a million.

mmo-champion.com/threads/2148411-Blizzard-team-has-undergone-quot-restructuring-quot
dig in.

Most of WoWs players are chinese, this has always inflated their numbers. I would bet the number of actual subs from the west is less than 1 million now.

MMos were ruined when they became a race to max content instead of joining up with friends to be a part of a massive interesting world. It's why TeS online failed right out of the gate. Zenimax didn't even care to get the lore, or the world right which is the most important thing.

Thanks.

Considering a Patch just came out today
the numbers will rise for like 3 months or so

...

Nostalrius is currently unplayable tbh

I hope they remove all the ching chongs and make a new server

Only if they got the requisite DDOS protection from butt hurt script kiddie gooks.

WoW is so boring now because nobody is ever on.

Not that big of a deal anymore
Blizzard could drop WoW without really getting hurt, Hearthstone brings in way more money now.

DELET THIS
NOSTALRIUS SERVERS ARE SHIT!
BLIZZARD TOLD ME!

Hearthstone is gay. Overwatch is where it's at.

The servers work, but crowded. Oh god, the crowding in the low levels zones. It's a god damn bottleneck. But at least it feels like people are playing.

This could be what they need, or they'll just fuck it up and streamline even harder.

...

So . . . is it going on the last dance before being dead for good? Or from its rotting massive carcass, someone else will be reborn?

More like planing the skeleton crew to run a f2p with no more content updates after this expansion, just 'micro holidays' and cash shop items.

imagine if they got someone who gives a shit about lore and adventure on the wow team instead of the current cunts running shit. That or they will just keep ripping stuff from FFXIV like they have done with most MMO's that challenge them.

how the fuck are you going to make it through the leveling process

They are too stuck in the past. They think releasing their next raid the day of FFXIV's final Heavensward patch will pull players away from its biggest competitor but anyone who plays XIV that played WoW dropped that shit a long time ago and ain't going back.

ONLY THE BEST COMPANIES CHARGE YOU FOR A QUE TIME!
Ya'll defending this like the bible damn.

wew lads.

Is the wow team full of SJW cancer?

It's Blizzard drones displaying symptoms of Stockholm syndrome.

Why do you think all the blizzard and blizzard north founders have left?

It's like they do everything in their power to make me want to throw them in an oven. Is it deliberate?

Remember "we arent going to take your toys away" just destroy them beyond recognition.

...

thats quite a nose that guy has there

The thing you fucking faggots keep conveniently forgetting is that while those kinds of numbers would be a great boon for other MMOs, its not at all a good thing for WoW. If they can't pull in the numbers they used to then their operation budget will shrink to an amount similar to that of other MMOs. The content droughts WoW gets now will be NOTHING compared to what they'll be with a smaller budget.

Well that simply isn't true.

If other MMOs pulled the subscription number bs WoW did then they'd all be floating numbers way bigger than WoW.

You figure if there was a furry in charge they would at least un-fuck the worgen, but that would require competence and they obviously weren't going in that direction.

No the furry infestation on this board trying to make WoW generals this week.

More like the Holla Forums problem trying for easy bait.

the bigger numbers WoW gets in comparison to other games, the worse it is for MMOs in general
it tells other companies that MMOs should be a facebook-tier casual race to the endgame content filled with micro-transactions and randomized loot and time-gated content releases for items/skills in the game(class halls) with a subscription to keep milking that money
i wouldn't be too surprised if WoW has only gotten past WotLK on its BRAND NAME and former praise

furthermore, it'd also be a step in the right direction if private WoW servers get more players in the hundreds of thousands

it tells companies that it doesn't have to be filled with microtransactions and time-gated releases for items/skills(class halls) and doesn't have to be so casual that a 10 year old boy could be good at endgame PvE

Hey, that's a demeaning stereotype.

They may be disgusting degenerates who want to fuck animals, but that doesn't mean they play WoW.

Oh but he's right.
There's been WoW generals made by an autistic furfag for a while now.

Better blame Bui then.

Blizzard stopped posting their sub numbers. However, there was an infographic posted by blizzard boasting about over 300,000 parties have entered their new dungeon for a patch. So if party sizes are 5, 300,000/5 is 60,000. But we also have to consider partial parties and parties made up of people who've entered before or people who enter more than once. That means WoW has less than 60,000 subscribers now.

In contrast the other major game with subscriptions seems to be the Final Fantasy one at 5 million subs.

If you don't want to go by sub numbers because neither companies report on them, just going by media hype and release cycles. Final Fantasy seems to get more attention in general and they also seem to release updates every few months as opposed to WoWs once or twice a year.

One autistic furfag that constantly posts panda furry porn.

If each party has 5 players aren't you supposed to multiply?

i am a nigger
so 1.5 million vs 5 million.

So we multiply and we get 1.5 million. That is still pretty pathetic, again considering that FFXIV has 5 million. It seems WoW has well and trully been dethroned and is dying.

But what are the concurrency numbers? How many are actually logged in at one time that aren't bots? Even at peak hours it has to be only a fraction of the total sub numbers. Better yet, how many are actually out there playing instead of AFKing with their thumbs up their asses trolling trade all day?

Is FF14 even good videogame?
I played WoW for a good few years but I don't know if I can afford the money/time to play another MMO
I also have never played a Final fantasy game in my life ever

MMOs began their decline as soon as they stopped trying to stand out and preferred to copy WoW, either to try and get the playerbase numbers it had (not realizing why it had such playerbase numbers at all) or because they're lazy and the WoW method is the "tried and true method" (in which devs REALLY show that they don't understand why WoW still has players).

Most MMOs will not commit to the full Skinner Box model that WoW has employed but will not try to compensate that lack of full Skinner Box pushing with gameplay or other things to keep people tied to the game, preferably with money spent. (I think MapleStory tried that with its endgame gear pretty much requiring high stats only obtainable via cash shop upgrades? I haven't touched the official servers in years.) Thus, when people play long enough to see that it's a mediocre WoW clone with none of WoW's "appeal", they leave.

To put it simply: a young WoW shit in the well believing it to be an outhouse, everyone else drank from that well (including WoW, the dumb bastard), and now everyone's sick and dying. Some MMOs, in a feverish dream, think that shitting in the well would fix this problem.

It seems FF14 has avoided the well altogether, for better or worse.

I try every MMO that offers a free trial. And a few that don't. It's a disease. FF14 is the best of the current lot for PvE. One character can level each class, can do the main storyline without doing raids, crafters are classes that have questlines, and the world outside of raids isn't forgotten about. Can't help you if want a pvp mmo.

That didn't address anything I was talking about, but thanks for stating the obvious?

There's a lot of love put into making it. Most of the boss fights are more exciting than what I've had in WoW. It's definitely a game that asks you to play it and not skip all the content just to get level cap. Hell even if you are level cap it'll sync you down for some things and for helping friends. Playing through the "vanilla" content you have to keep in mind the game supports ps3 players, next expansion they're dropping that support and if current expansion is any indication maps are going to continue being bigger and bosses more climatic.

personally I don't like japshit, I prefer western lore and sounds and looks and clothings and creatures and everything

The "chick" screams tranny to me, also kike.

I bought it after Christmas and I've been playing it for 10 hours every day. I too never played it before, went for the trial, played for a week, liked it, bought it for 50% off. I just joined a guild, dungeons are demanding and fun, I haven't touched another game since I bought it.

So real talk, what games are even worth a fuck anymore? Peferably free to play or even freemium. I'm genuinely willing to try everything, peeked at EverQuest 2, want to try Rift, really the year it came out doesn't matter to me. But all my friends are normalfag fucks who eat up the latest triple A. Makes it hard to find good games since the opinions I get are largely shit.

With all these previous titans like the Halos, CoDs, and WoWs, its ironic that they would die by their own hands, and not by a new rival.

FF14 has a free trial. Try it. Honest, I can't recommend it enough. I've never in my life played mmos and this game has captivated me.

Come the fuck on, WoW's sub numbers have been tanking none stop since Cata, the only time they ever went up was after they lied about WoD, the spike resulted in them losing more players then they gained.
The only people who remain are Chinese gold farmers and retarded addicts with multiple accounts.

The state WoW has been in since cata even free to play wouldn't save it, Doesnt help the fact that everyone at blizzard are massive egotists and refuse to listen to anyone outside the company, any surprise why they make nothing but shit nowadays.

Here's a good question:
What is the definitive thing that made WoW fail?

Rushing new players to the endgame, while also having fuckall to do at endgame besides daily chores

Isn't Legion one of the better selling wow add-ons though?
I think it would be better to look at the realm numbers to know how many still play. Some user posted them not too long ago and they were already at WoD level back then.
Now reading how they seemingly fucked up pvp I guess some other drones might finally get the wake up call.

retarded casualisation in Wotlk

1. Heroic dungeons became useless

2. class homogenisation which only resulted in people stacking OP specs

3. raids being easy loot pinatas

4. introduction of cross-realm LFG

Played it, love it, taking a break from it til the big update. Not sure what they're gonna change but I know they're adding a class and making it play different. I don't mind that they're changing but I want something to fill the gap until then so my palate is half clean and I'm not salty about all my buttons being different.

Dungeon/raid finder for one. The idea of getting to experience a raid even if you're not top tier, or even halfway committed is a fucking sham that excuses people for being fucking lazy. If you really cared to raid you'd ask around for help gearing and sit in /1 looking for a raid or finding a guild. Most people now do RF, think "wow that was fun, I've done literally everything in the game now" and stop.

Alternately the general discouraging of group play via instance finder since you didn't need to try anymore. You can hit I, wait a couple minutes to an hour, be an unbearable cunt and it won't affect you in the long run because you'll just clean slate next time you queue.

Or it could be turning it into a Facebook game where you wait literal days for anything to get done for you to progress. In WoD, wanna craft? Fuck off, wait 2-3 days to get enough of a thing then wait another 2-3 days for that stuff to become actually craftable materials. Now do that a couple times so you can make one item. Hope you don't want 30 slot bags any time soon fucker. Plus the whole sending troops on missions thing which, in legion, means sending 3 of your 8 or so troops out for up to 24 hours to finish one mission. And that's to move on with actual character progression. A whole day you're paying for just gone if you had no intention of farming mats or world quests or sitting in queue for hours.

Also the hyper simplification of rotations turning most characters spell books into 2 pages, half of which are just passives

Put simply there's a lot wrong.

its not, the best selling expansion was Cataclysm which was overhyped and claimed it would restore the glory of TBC and remove flaws from Wotlk but in last 2 weeks of beta devs reversed all major changes and it became almost the same shit as Wotlk only with ice theme being replaced with fire theme.

Legion sold a little bit below MoP which is around 3 million but has since lost alot of subs

Nervig is a pretty pathetic human being, in addition to being incompetent at his job.

Except for the part where it doesn't. The fact is the vast majority of the playerbase never even reaches level cap, that's been a fact of the matter since day 1. That also assumes every person at the level cap has run said dungeon which is a very faulty assumption, and I never even heard of this infographic you're referencing. For the record this logic also applies to XIV and any other MMO really.

There are probably more housewives on RP realms collecting pets than actual raiders at any point in the games history.

Link to read more?
I never heard anything about that.

I read a lot of theories. I guess it was a combination of factors rather than just 1 thing then.

Also how come legion is tanking? I heard and read that blizz learned from the mistakes of previous expansions?

Never assume this to be the case with any company. They'll crow up and down they've learned they've changed take us back while still lubing up your tender sphincter to continue as they were.

I don't know where you read that. It started bad and is still bad. It's a dull game. The new "fast paced" combat covers up for it being dull. You hit more buttons but you hit half as many as you used to. Half of most rotations are just spamming the same spender so you don't cap. Half my rotation as Arms is Slam so I don't cap rage. And I genuinely wish I were exaggerating but I'll kill most mobs trying to proc with slam before I actually proc

They say that since the WotLK days and it's never true.

check old Cata beta patch notes, they made dungeons hard and long, healers didnt had infinite mana and people had to plan in PvP rather than just tunel vision the enemy healer

you can prob find old Grim Batol dungeon which lasted over 1 hour

I enjoy the game.

Cata dungeons were cancer because they made the trash mob encounters more difficult than the bosses, the majority of bosses were still just gear checks, but mainly for the healer.

PVP was ruined when they added resilience because it marked the abandoning of large scale PVP and the embracing of arenas.
Cata made healers rediculously OP by bloating health pools(but not damage) and by nerfing the healing debuffs,

I'm watching this vid but I fail to see the fun in it.
Leveling is still only 1-2 offensive spells/abilities except more tedious and boring.

However, I can see how it makes wow a better experience since levelling means something rather than rushing to max level then quitting wow.

This joke of a raid.

Naxx in vanilla was a feat to behold, you needed 8 tanks for 4 horsemen meaning very few guilds had the capabilities to get full T3 gear. Even T2.5 from AQ was blisteringly difficult thanks to the twins.

WotlK hits and makes this raid an absolute joke. Nilihum cleared the dungeon within 2 days of release, even I cleared it within a month.

Time. A game can be good forever, but it can't be succesfull forever, and MMOs are especially dependend on Normalfag gamers. And as the old generation of Normalfags gets older and stops playing too, all they are left with is pandernig to new generation Normalfags, which is also a problem since new generation Normalfags tend to try out newer games.

Even if Billzard had done everything right, it's impossible to keep going forever and it's retarded if a game has a billion addons too. They should rather develop Warcraft 4, and then invest money into a new MMO.

That was added 2 weeks before launch, they nerfed Mortal Strike effects to 25% and inrease hp for all classes to 140k

What is this "artifact" thing I'm reading up about legion?

You have 1 weapon for the entire game?

Same reason EVE is popular from what I can tell. It forced you to get in a guild and work with other people. I never actually played WoW but this is what I hear everywhere. The entire attraction to the old game was the guilds. All the nostalgic memories I hear about are from guilds.

Yeah.
Each class has one specific weapon that can change it's appereance and stats depending on your spec.
And colors as well after you grind them.
You can also level it up and make it stronger, enhancing your abilities I think if you grind some points for it, which takes a shitton of time.

Just imagine, everyone running around with a copy of Doomhammer or Ashbringer.
There was even a picture full of palas in one room wearing Ashbringers.

they are really running on fumes creatively.

WOW, who came up with THIS idiotic idea?

This

It's not the one I had in mind, but yeah, it's retarded.

Probably the same dude that decided that every player it the head master of their respective class.
At the same time mind you.

...

WoW should've just copied the loot system from Monster Hunter, where the vast majority of item drops are simply materials that raiders roll on to craft the gear.

WE HAVE TO GO BACK! BACK, TO TIBIA!

Raiders don't call it a legit raid. The real offender is Emerald Nightmare where raiders beat it due to exploits involving the fights or Shadow Priests/Fire Mages, and mythic gear being available before EN. EN on the hardest difficulty was cleared within less than 24 hours. Let that sink in for a moment.

Apparently, Trials of Valor is hit and miss due to some really retarded mechanics, and the last boss being worse than Mythic Archimonde. Violet Hold isn't looking any good either.

It's not pvp that's fucked. Class balance keeps getting worse, as melee specs got fucked over in the recent patch for Locks (DKs are still shit, and Monk is still lolMonk). Shadow Priests and Fire Mages, specs that needed nerfs, hardly got nerfed, and are still required for raid fights like the last Trial of Valor boss, who is apparently over tuned according to some raiders.

Death by a thousand cuts!

OH YEAH BRO 12% SHAREHOLDERS HAVE THAT KIND OF POWER!

You forgot to add:

You know the new Mario app is getting panned, right?

There probably won't be any new expansion after this - at all.

They already sent a massive "fuck you" to the playerbase with warlords "kill the nationalist" of draenor.

What?!

I'd also like to point out that runescape is happily chugging along without a care in the world

A good analogy is that WoW had a cancer and rather than get chemo they went with a homeopathic treatment. That cancer was tunnel vision for development. All focus in WoW is entirely on raids with a tiny after thought of PvP. The cure to that cancer was to dedicate resources to creating new systems for different parts of the game world to make it more of simulation of life. The homeopathic treatment that killed it was believing that catering exclusively to raiders with development dollars would keep the game alive.

Raiding is a very specific way of playing a game. It isn't for everyone nor should it be. It shouldn't even be considered the pinnacle of a game by default as there are many other ways to test player skill. It is a play-style that just like any other style some people will enjoy, some people will tolerate, and some people wont like. The people who hate raiding aren't going to go in no matter how easy you make it and especially wont like it when you start forcing them to, the same will eventually be true of people who merely tolerate it. When you consider that only 1% of the player-base ever saw vanilla Naxx you get the idea of just how many players will eventually leave if you focus exclusively on this gameplay style.

Blizzard only ever really wanted to make raids, which created a multitude of problems. The most obvious error being that they opted for linear progression which meant that every time a new expansion came out, or even just a new patch, they effectively invalidated their previous content. Players would only run the raid to meet minimum requirements for the newest raid, if at all, and months of dev time and hundreds of thousands of dollars are rendered moot. The next major problem was that in order to justify their obsession with raid development they needed to get everyone playing the game into raids by whatever means necessary. LFR killed the game but it was also a VITAL component because there is nothing else in the game to do. Every quest, profession, class mechanic and UI element is designed to get players into raids. This leads to another problem of every other aspect of the game withering on the vine so that the game world becomes hollow and no longer able to support itself and the player base leaves.

And the big thing about losing players this way, particularly where they spend years and years telling blizzard what they are doing wrong and being ignored? Those are players that aren't coming back. Players that become burnt out with your COMPANY become the worst poison you could ever have. Because they used to love you and know everything about you, everything they say about you is true.

Blizzard simply never had the balls to be a big boy and add the important but not very showy aspects of the game and instead gorged itself on the sugars of flashy raids.

Another reason why nost is shit. 30 people competing for each mob.

Wasn't warlords just about how the orc guy was soooo bad because he was an orc supremacist and wanted orcs to be with orcs and conquer everyone else, whereas thrall wanted alliance and horde together and in the horde, equality?

That isn't remotely what happened.

That's not even a weird Holla Forums interpretation of the events…

Sort of…I don't want to remember WoD's story. It was all kinds of retarded, but it didn't have any socjus shit until Legion was announced..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft:_Warlords_of_Draenor

Yeah, notice how he doesn't actually give a shit about orcs and is just a pentulant bitch who wants revenge.

Hell the entire last part of Mists of Pandaria was him considering abandoning orc purity and using the Sha instead.

WoD was just using the little cuck to bring back all the old orc heroes for memberberries.

orcs are niggers
blizz devs are cucks
blizz devs say orcs dindu and theyre a noble race
honestly if you don't play alliance you're a fucking filthy degenerate furry, elf, or savage

as opposed to playing alliance and being a fucking filthy degenerate furry, elf, or Irish?

Wew lad

We will do this by parts.

First of all, Night elves are less degenerate than blood elves:

meanwhile the blood elves:

Jesus you fucks are as bad as old wow drones with your lies. FFXIV has only like 350k subs.

Relax dude, I was just bullshitting you.

The real degeneracy is playing the game at all.

Night Elves told the Furlbolg (bear people) to go fuck themsevles when they were being corrupted by the Legion. They more or less told the Alliance to fuck off too until shit got real in AQ and Wrath. Their leaders are too busy with their own agendas to do anything (one is a hippy, the other is a slut who wants said hippy's dick).

The Blood Elf leader actually risked his own life to save the Horde from Garrosh with Vul'Jin.

I know we're just joking around, but Night Elves are pretty douchey.

Worgen vs Goblins:

The goblins are kikes. There's nothing redeeming about them. they're plain kikes.
They are also cucks willing to prep the bull to orcs strenghtening their city structure and military power as long as they get house and protection.
Their engineering is inferior to gnomes, known to be meme engineering that always backfires and explodes

The Worgen, aside from their furry playerbase, used to be humans, white humans at that. Sure, they're yuros, but still white. They're just humans who go furry for battle. The issue with worgens is their players, but not the race itself
Worgens are also old fashion, gentlemen, fend for themselves yet help others. not noveau riche like blood elves, and not noveau riche like goblins who want gold in any way. Worgens have an ethical compass and national pride and theyre not willing to be cucks to orcs for money

This definitely killed the game for me. I've played the game off and on since Vanilla, bought every expansion except Legion and I've never *ever* wanted to set foot in a raid. The whole philosophy of " endgame=raiding" is fucking retarded. There shouldn't even *be* an endgame. Instead of focusing on pushing players through their shitty epic story they should have spent this time creating systems that would allow players to interact with each other in ways other than combat.

user, that's just not true. Each spec gets its own artifact weapon. I don't know how it is with other classes, but I know Ret paladins get Ashbringer, Prot paladins get a sword&board or something, and Holy paladins get a hammer and either a book or a shield.

Still stupid to award lore-significant weapons to everyone. Ashbringer should've probably gone to Lady Liadrin, if anyone, and she already has Quel'Delar.

Both have Pandaren on their side, although the factions differ in lore

Supposedly the alliance pandaren believe in diplomacy and reasoning while the horde pandaren believe that violence and action is the answer. take it as you will. Both of their playerbase are furries anyway. Horde pandaren are more akin to dindus while alliance pandaren are more akin to pacifists.

It's been a while, but I got the idea that alliance pandaren were more about planning and horde pandaren were more about acting, keeping in tune with their pandaren leaders.

And still no dance studio I bet.

Kind of wish I had the one with the auction house full of them on hand.

i don't play either game, it's just the numbers jewgle gave me.

It's sad when you consider that if they put even the slightest amount of money into developing those other aspects of the game WoW would be the god-king of MMO's.

How is it that a shitty little MMO like Vanguard got the idea of 'Hey, what if Diplomacy was its own system that you played a little card battle for bonuses for your guild/faction/server?'

Or hell, Project Gorgon with giving NPC's more depth than a quest/shop interface?

This is the area where WoW not only killed itself, but destroyed the genera. I can't think of a single MMO that died against the brainwashed fanbase of WoW-hype that didn't at least try SOMETHING to spice up the world and make it more engaging.

We live in a world where Star Wars Galaxies had to change it's systems around to be WoW but WoW didn't try and adopt SWG's crafting system. That's a reality I really wish didn't exist.

...

Which was the worst heroic dungeon with randos?
Escape from Durnholde or Grim Batol? fuck doing durnholde with only 1 rogue for cc

nah torbro, it was just straight up demons an shit. And garrisons, and other shit.

anyone who wasn't fucking brain dead cleared it in two-three days after hitting the cap and the only reason it'd not of been faster was the raid servers shitting themselves at the time. New naxx was a joke and the fact that the original is forever gone is a god damn tragedy.

they were both equally easy if you were a tank that knew how to play

I'm trying to wrap my head how you can't get an employee to write decent patch notes because socjus shit or a SocialJusticeWatch character's sexual orientation are way more important than addressing the problems people are having with your games. How do you fuck up patch notes?

Escape was just boring as fuck. You could actually get fucked over so many times on Heroic Grim Batal.

Honorable mentions according to their expansions:

BC: Shattered Halls, Sethekk Halls
Wrath: Halls of Stone (Tribunal)
Cata: Damn near all of them except the last three dungeons (too long, shitty bosses, bullshit like the Deadmine obstacles)
MoP: None (They weren't hard, but they weren't fun either).

I never played WoD, so I can't say which dungeon was the worst with randoms.

ffxiv dungeons are much more fun
the game doesn't have dumbfuck tanks oneshotting everything with heirloom items and the leveling isn't fast as hell

MoP: The one where you have to do RP bullshit with the bombs on the 2nd boss that takes forever because its scripted. Where finish on stopping a bridge being built

Black Morass was ass to tank with a Warrior. Consecration and swipe made it irrelevant for the other tanks.

I remember Underbog being one you only did if you really had to for some reason. Can't really remember why.

I frogot about that dungeon, and now that you mention it, Shadow Pan, Gate of the Setting Sun, and Siege of Nizuao were horrible with pugs.

Yea, this one sucked too in it's day.

I think heirlooms killed grouping in Wow. If you were in a group with 4 guys wearing looms, chances are nobody would really talk or cooperate with each other. I couldn't even tank or heal on my alts because the heirloom faggots would rush in, yet when they died, they'd scream to kick people even if they caused a wipe (it was always a mage or a shitty tank). I remember getting kicked out of a group on my lock because I stopped a wipe in the last Dire Maul dungeon with the tribute freeze trap; then I had another incident on my tank alt where dps wouldn't let me do anything, and the healer refused to heal me even when I got aggro off of him. When I died, they just left me there, denying me xp/shitty loot as they kept clearing the dungeon.

The tank incident was the last time I ever leveled an alt because I got sick of heirloom faggots.

I've heard this too many times, I have no faith anymore
I used to like this game, it was my first MMO even though I wanted to play another one but friends peer pressured me into getting WoW

I have to agree. the XIV dungeons feel more involved and immersive to me, and some of the boss battles are a lot of fun.

Heirlooms really did kill grouping and dungeons. I think it was around late cata my GF at the time wanted to play. I rolled a WAR and she went Priest. I had the looms so thought fuck it why not? We ended up duo'ing level appropriate dungeons. Even with her not having heirlooms I was strong enough to survive and the fact they nerfed low level shit so she never ran out of MP just made it easier.

I was never a raider. I enjoyed PVP, running dungeons, and leveling new characters. They spent the last four expansions doing their best to kill all that. Honestly I'm glad the games dying it's what they deserve for being so pig headed and egotistical with their shitty ideas.

That's the problem with story-driven MMOs really, either everyone gets to be le chosen one savior of the universe or everyone is just another glorified mook helping the real protagonists of the show.

All they have to do is release a few new classes instead of an expansion and go back to the old talent system, then I'd happily sub again for a few months.

The sad part is, I don't think that needs to be the case.

I'd love a story based MMO that, rather than funnel priests and scholars to the front lines of a battlefield, would give different classes and paths different quests that told different stories.

Hell, you could tell some amazing stories if you paced quests correctly. Like if you're a warrior at a front line and you get a quest to go and help fortify a bunker while the mage class have to go back to their libraries to research some magic artifact. Then have a major push decimate the front line while the mages are gone. Warrior players wondering 'where the fuck were the mages?' and Mage players wondering 'what the fuck happened here?' for the same event.

Hell I can actually see it possible to code together the game in such a way that if you have a friend with a certain class that their specific character will show up as a stand in for an otherwise generic NPC and designing it so that people from multiple classes can group together and have to split up occasionally while still in the same party. Just to give a feeling of "events are happening, you aren't the champion, but you are part of them"

...

What does that card do again?

That boss and the adds were pretty bad with pugs from what little I remember.

Does someone have that pepe image, where it's updated with 2015 and 2017?

nevermind I made my own

Raiding was fun if you could get into a guild that wanted to kick ass, and have fun doing it. Just don't raid on dead servers like Nesingwary.

Even though pvp is beyond saving I still hope holinka gets fucking canned. How he still has a job is beyond me.

This piece of shit can't die fast enough, along with the entire genre. Fuck mmos.

back when the mmo were virtual worlds and not a "game" with "le epic story xDDD"

problem is not holinka. it's Celestalon
he's the one who makes the game 1.5 GCD, the prunes, etc. Holinka is just the roomate who has to live with his faggot roomate who owns the appartment and has to adapt to what he does.

Fuck holinka too, though. Seriously. Game needs so much balance, they can easily tune every ability to do balanced damage in pvp. What do they do? focus on fucking up Blade's Edge arena with overdesign, an annoying narrator and other nuissances that nobody wanted. They don't know their priorities, let alone play the game.

Reminder that a Blizzard employee really thought announcing a SocialJusticeWatch's orientation had more priority than giving Diablo a good 20th anniversary, fixing Wow's class balance (which is worse because melee now got fucked over, and Mages/Priests hardly got nerfed) among other problems,, and trying to make HoTS playable.

I'm still trying to figure out what made them think a gender-specific item that pushed socjus agendas and abuse towards one gender was a good idea (ex-boyfriend dummy), as well as telling your playerbase using a mouse to play Wow is stupid. That really shows somebody how you're out of touch with the players.

Anyone remember Zahryn or however you spelled that assahat's name during WoD? That guy was a complete ass-hole to everybody who didn't kiss his ass over WoD's shit. He was such a bad pr/cm there were rumors Blizzard fired him. I almost miss Ghostcrawler…until I remembered how much he sucked too.

It's not going to drop dead anytime soon, but it's been losing more players than WoD. We didn't even get the second raid tier, but the current zones are just messes (EN was done in less than 24 hours, and needed hotfixes; Trials of Valor is overtuned for its own good even with nerfs to the last boss, and some people aren't even bothering with it after Violet Hold comes out).

There's been a lot of backlash on the Blizzard forums, and not even the fanboy-sjw-shills can silence the shit people are saying about Legion. Somehow Legion topped WoD for worst expansion within 2-4 months after it's release, and again we didn't even get the second tier yet.

MMOs are literally normalfag games

Ghostcrawler is now at Riot Games.

You can't tell because League was always shitty though although the most recent "season" is the worst yet.

how did you arrive at this conclusion? because they typically require social interaction to succeed in?

well, you don't have to worry about that in warcraft :^)

Same, i tried playing MMOs once but people kept trying to interact with me and it pissed me off.

I honestly can't believe how retarded this is.

The sad part is that despite knowing that Legion was going to be shit after WoD a few people I know still bought it because "they didn't get far enough to experience the shittiness in WoD so it's fine".

One of the developers came out and talked in a podcast about how MoP featured White Guilt. Not in those words.

The Blood Elves, like other Horde races, are Blizzard's attempt to try and have it both ways. Cartoonishly evul behavior at one moment, followed by stories of how it wasn't really their fault so they're not open villains. The gap between TFT to BC is the key example, where Kael'thas goes from the representative of what remains of his race, to leader of a tiny gang of them.

Not that Night Elves are much better off. They're what should be a faction in itself shoehorned into the Alliance and has suffered for it.

How bad is the current season now? I used to read News of Legends until they suddenly stopped reporting stuff let alone allowed comments on the updates (because almost everyone bitched about the game sucking ass). All I remember from the last season was you can't solo queue anymore, the fuck-awful Yorick rework, and catering to sjws by making Taric a gigantic faggot.

I saw Warwick's rework. I don't know I feel about it. It pretty much removed some of the goofiness and uniqueness of his skins like Hyena Warwick and Little Red Warwick. Why are they trying to make Lol into some serious Japanese anime?

I don't want to see what they'll do to Urgot.

And Celestalon still thinks it's okay that he pissed off so many players. No wonder why the numbers are dropping.

The white guilt doesn't kick in until Garrosh decides to shit all over Panda Land. That whole expansion was fucking terrible (shitty raids, mandated dailies, useless currency, fuck-awful rng in boss fights and loot drops, etc.). I didn't even bother to do SoO on LFR.

Current season is utter trash, Solo queue is back though, alongside the "dynamic" queue(which is now called flex)

Riot redid the entire jungle AGAIN, because once they finally tune it to not be shit they just cant resist fucking it up again.

The camp changes are awful, champs without AOE can't kill the raptors at all, Riot decided krugs should take a long time to kill but give extra exp, which resulted in junglers being able to hit level 3 before laners even hit level 2, which the "Systems designer" said was intentional. They fixed it nearly immediately after saying that(by reducing the exp on raptors for the first clear).

Tower First blood was added at the end of last season, which splits 400 gold among all players who took the first tower, making games more snowbally and preventing toplaners from roaming ever.

ADCs are super weak because teams group up too early for them to have the farm they need. ADCs generally need 3-4 items before their damage is good but teamfights start when they have 2, last season they addressed the issue by building assassin items instead, but Armor Penetration got replaced by "Lethality" which is armor pen but worse(it scales with the targets level, so at level 18 20 lethality is equal to 20 Arpen). So now Botlane is completely fucked and Ziggs is becoming a tier 1 "ADC"

The most recent attempt by riot to try and fix ADCs is to nerf junglers because according to riot "Junglers have too big an impact on the game" Completely forgetting that junglers have had the biggest impact for at least 3 seasons now. The actual issue is that ADC items are too weak and they have little flexibility in their build paths.

The most recent patch nerfed junglers by making camps give 25% less experience the first time they're cleared(Which stacks additively with the krug nerf so they only give 25%). While at the same time ensuring that 3 camps give junglers level 3(which is fine) but doesn't address the issue of junglers being too strong since most are plenty capable of ganking at level 3.

As for Warwick I don't really have much of an opinion on the visuals, but for some reason a champ designed to be a beginner champ now has a unique targetting system. his Q is still a targetted spell, but if you hold the button you jump behind the target after. As far as champ design hes basically hecarim, hes designed to be a tanky diver who excels at flanking with a long range engage ult.

I quit the game after they ruined Twitch despite his update, forcing you to pick Caithlyn, Jinx, Draven, Ashe, Vayne, or their gay Mary Sue Ezrael if you want to be an ADC. They should just delete Twitch to put him out of his misery. Poor bastard.

I loved how Riot tried to force Gnar and Azir down everyone's throats when their releases were disasters only to nerf one of them to the complete ground right now (Azir). They didn't ruin Heimerdinger out of his models and splash arts, right? Right?

Forgot to add Lucien, another ADC that was forced upon you. Oh yea, are they still trying to push Bard when his release was also a fuck up, or did they give up with that? Seems like no one really uses most of the newer characters.

Twitch is actually pretty strong right now, most adcs are trash and twitch has a pretty strong late game. plus he can gank well at lvl 2 as a jungler.

Gnar was horrible from the start, Riot had plenty of issues toplane from champs with sustain/range/transformations and gnar had literally all of those things.

Azir is a good example of riot just being unable to balance anything.

bards pretty good right now, and the newest champ is completely broken, 70%+ winrates

Can I still fuck with people as Heimerdinger?

yes but banner and zrot got nerfed

Eh, he seems versatile with other roles.

It gets worse when you consider they were pandering to the Chinks.

I think you touch upon a point that I think needs expanding on. I never liked WoW-I was a Guildwars goy (for those of you who care, it had a massive emphasis on your skill choices and build, less so your items) but even there for the 'endgame' content you had to work with people.
They eventually added AI helpers you could control, and while it was on one level great-nothing worse than your healer dropping halfway through a run-it also meant you didn't have to socialise and get on with people. You could know people by name after a while before this and how they played because you were always having to work with other people. A MMORPG has to cater to as many people as possible so it's pretty much assured it's going to be less interesting than most singleplayer games.

tl;dr: mmorpgs are vehicles to interact with people and that's why they're fun. You remove the need to interact with people and it stops being fun.

caverns of time stratholme was annoyingly long for it's size
but that fuken shield was worth it

I know a few idiots who PREORDERED it as soon as it was available last year. Hell, these are the same people who were drooling all over the disappointment that was Legion reveal back in august 2015.

MMOs are one of the many cancers in this industry.
I've stopped even caring anymore, things like WoW are just a symptom of a bigger problem.
The only thing that could save this industry is a crash, which doesn't look like it will happen.

Is the game still awful? I played since season 1, and even tryharded to plat last year. Haven't played since. Is mordekaiser still trash?

I think you kind of hit a major problem with the genera here. 'Socializing' is a major part of the game and key to engagement, but aside from a friend's list and an 'official friends list' that is guilds, what effort do these games take to help promote socializing?

It's like how the laziest PvP is just flagging players as valid targets. Sure it works, but that's ignoring tons of aspects of balance and context.

You mentioned AI helpers that you can get in guild wars, I'd love to see a game where players make their own characters into the underlings from Dragons Dogma. Put a whole system in about your character helping others that you control. Things like the general behavior, skill set, and the cut you expect. Then other players could rent you out if you meet their criteria and if they like your setup or are successful could leave a message to you.

Things like this are exactly why 'raids, raids, raids' development is killing the genera as a whole.

morde is a little better, but hes a testament to "progressive" game design. They fucked him up completely but absolutely refuse to revert the changes.

Not worth playing then. I carried myself to plat 2 then stopped because he simply blew.

I stopped playing WoW around 6 months after TBC's release and stopped paying attention to it. How hard did Blizzard fuck everything exactly?

Funny how you brought up Guild Wars, since from all the descriptions in this thread played WoW only up to WotWK, never played again ever since mainly due to guildmates drifting apart Blizzard is essentially taking game design cues from Guild Wars 2.

We would all be here for days explaining what they did wrong.

Same thing happened to Cassiopeia and Rhyze. Their redesigns were so bad, Riot gave up on them, pissing off a lot of their fans.

Long story slightly not as long: By the start of WotLK they had gotten class balance and functionality to a great place balance wise (PvE because PvP will always be a broken pile of fuck).

That is the last positive thing I will say about Blizzard.

Remember how in Vanilla and BC going into a raid meant something? Remember how the 99% of players who didn't raid said they wanted something to actually do? Well Blizzards solution was to solve one problem with the other. Rather than expand on different obvious placeholder mechanics like the joke of a crafting system they simply spent all resources creating new raids, and simply make that the only thing to do in the game. They spent countless man hours making new colors of flaming hoops to jump through but haven't dropped a single dime in things like crafting, character customization, or creating the feeling of a persistent world. In fact all of these aspects have been made even worse than they were in vanilla, when 2/3rd of the specs were objectively broken.

I feel like some emphasis needs to be made here:

WotLK:
Naxx Redux
Eye of Eternity
Vault of Archavon
Obsidian Sanctum
Ulduar
Trial of the Crusader
Onyxia's Lair Redux
Icecrown Citadel
The Ruby Sanctum

Cata:
Baradin Hold
Bastion of Twilight
Throne of the Four Winds
Blackwing Descent
Firelands
Dragon Soul

Mists:
Mogu'shan Vaults
Heart of Fear
Terrace of Endless Spring
Throne of Thunder
Siege of Orgimmar

WoD:
Highmaul
Blackrock Foundry
Hellfire Citadel

All of these raids are aspects of the game that had months of development time put into them, including unique art assets, gameplay elements and supporting quest structures. It is no exaggeration to claim that given the staff and time spent on these that tens of thousands of man hours were spent not to mention multi-millions of dollars. ALL of it is effectively flushed down the drain at this point. Nobody is doing that content anymore save for the few events blizzard does to desperately justify their wasted effort.

That's the problem of focusing so had on linear progression in an MMO of all things. All of the non-raid stuff? Despite trying their damnedest to get rid of it with buying max leveled characters you can still start a new character and level them through zones, see the quests, fight the enemies, explore the secrets and collect the resources. The raids? Effectively just taking up space on the servers with the occasional guild doing a run because someone wants to steal the skin of an item because all the new ones look fucking retarded.

This is, of course, not counting the countless fuck ups along the way in other aspects of the game and the depths you have to reach in order to understand why they fucked up that way, but that really would take pages and pages of analysis.

Possibly best example: Talent system removed because everyone chose more or less the same build (because raids are a very specific gameplay type that rewards certain builds), and replaced with a Talent system with 3 choices of doing the exact same thing just short of a label stating 'This one is for PvP/This one is for Leveling and Grinding/This one is for Raids' on them.

For some reason I read WoW's Lego expansion and became mildly interested.

Legion was already a massive clusterfuck thanks to all the RNG they introduced, but somehow they managed to do even worse within the past 2 or so days.

Please no. Go back and stay back.

This. WoW fags think they're special for having played that shitheap. If you fags want to play XIV at least contain yourself to your guild and dont try to have any say in game progression. Wanting jump potions because you're too fucking lazy to play the game and learn your class is bad enough.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't see what's wrong with it. I stopped playing FF14 years ago because of life shit, but it's drastically better than Wow when you hit certain points in the game. Crafting is really fun, and I had more fun crafting than going into dungeons. Besides, all he meant was that Legion is so terrible even the sjw-fanboys-shills on the official forums can't even silence all the backlash and beef players are having with Legion and sjw-assholes like Celestalon; shit almost every fanboy-shill post that defends Legion almost gets downvoted.

Now the SocialJusticeWatch fags who go into threads, however, can fuck off for supporting that piece of sjw-pandering shit.

Only chads douchebags autists and faggots play alliance. Kill yourself.

Anyone member Maplestory when it was fresh in 2005~2006?

Yes.

Gnomes a cute though

I think I played from v0.05 to whatever update Omega Sector was in, must have been from July 2005 to August 2006.

...

Even the nips made a better WoW than blizzard. For fuck's sake, blizzard is straight up ripping off FFXIV's features now. It's sad, really.

Maple Story became a mess with one endless revision after another.

Examples?

at least they made it so non-autists could become Jedi :^)

Nigga, I played when people above 40 were a fucking rarity. I remember, they were better times.

Better times…

MMOs by their very nature were about camaraderie and the playerbase itself being a feature of the games. As soon as every developer began to race each other to the bottom to see who could instance more content and make their games more soloable was the day MMOs died. Modern MMOs are basically single player games with chat clients.

WoW also ruined the MMO community. Modern MMO players throw temper tantrums whenever anything in a game requires they play more than five minutes a week to get a reward.

...

Go jump off a bridge.