Why did they stop making Sonic Adventure games? It's the most heartbreaking thing in all of gaming...

What do you think makes Sonic Adventure good? It has nothing going for it as far as I can tell.

Im calling the police

You both need to get your heads out of your ass and realize that a Sonic game cannot be considered "good" without a Chao Garden and without it all replay value is lost

sonic heroes is actually good, fuck you

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This to be honest. I felt like the Adventure games had the best controls for Sonic. Like he felt right when moving him unlike other games (Heroes has him too slippery, Generations has him too linear). But I feel like they were never able to translate that physics engine to other consoles besides Dreamcast hence the lackluster controls. Unleashed was the closest to feeling like the Adventure controls. He didn't zoom off a cliff by a quick nudge on the analog stick, but he didn't feel heavy. It's kind of weird they didn't work with it more and chose the more safer Generations. Generations had an okay control but it wasn't as free as the Adventure and Unleashed controls.

For Unleashed, I blame game journos. Also why we don't have anymore Adventure games, because according to them, they're complete shit. And apparently everything from Unleashed was shit hence why they made Generations control safer.

Unleashed would have been a good game if they cut out the Werehog shit completely.

Generations is pretty bad too. Sonic has never really adapted to the 3D era.

I loved the hubs. It was really atmospheric and very charming and it didn't force you to chat with everyone to get to the game part unless you want extra missions or something. I think the Werehog bits were more of a personal thing instead of a genuine game flaw. Because for a hack and slash, it was pretty decent. I never really knew why they said Werehog stages were too long because they were honestly about as long as those Tails stages from SA2, until later in the game.

I never understood why people liked Adventure.

Heroes was even worse.

I grew up with them so I'm definitely biased. Likely the reason I enjoy them so much, but I played them recently and honestly they are both still top notch… the boss battles, the level design, the music, the graphics and character design… they are both just very holistic, almost mysterious experiences, and no other Sonic games that I've played, ESPECIALLY the recent ones that have tried to update the environments and bad guys to be more "realistic", have really come close to capturing that experience.

How old are you?

I'm 20, user. The first Sonic Adventure came out in 1998.

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Sonic Adventure 3 was Sonic 06. It's just people including me refuse to accept that.

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I'm 20, and I grew up with them. The first sonic adventure came out in 1998. Being born in 96, I played it as a kid. I played the hell out of adventure 2, and that came out in 2001. I was 2 when adventure came out, but not everyone gets new games every year, so I played a lot of my brother's hand-me-downs.
It's okay, user.

I didn't play Adventure 2 until Battle came out on Gamecube but I played the shit out of that so much I asked for DX next Christmas.

>not knowing that everyone at the time made fun of it for being such a departure from a good game with a childlike atmosphere to the darkest pits of autism that still hang over the series to this day like a spergy specter

I'm so, so sorry.

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That's reasonable. I played adventure 1 first, but I played it after 2 came out. We didn't usually have enough money to buy new games as they came out, so I just usually went through my brother's old collection. I was probably about 5 or 6 by the time I started actually playing games in any meaningful capacity, so both games were released by the time I actually played them.
It's interesting that other anons think of them as new enough releases that we would be underage posting now.

It's alright, man. We knew it was shit, but the features that were good stood out so it didn't matter. Honestly, Adventure 2 Battle is one of my favorite games because of the chao garden. At least now you can see where some of the threads about wishing the good features in bad games would come back. People like me grew up with only those shit-shows as games. My selection was often limited to dreamcast gen even after 2 gens later.
If it helps, I also played Sonic the Hedgehog. But after I played the 3d games that were out at the time.

Impressive first levels are why the Adventure games are seen as great games, when really they're okay games overall. For every Emerald Coast and City Escape, there was Final Egg, Lost World, Crazy Gadget, and Pyramid Cave, not to mention the fishing stages, the slow Amy stages, or any of the treasure hunting ones from both games. You have one good first level, then a bunch of meh to godawful levels after it. Take off the nostalgia goggles and stop acting like they weren't an awkward transition to 3D that sort of worked.

Fuck off dude Pyramid cave was alright.

I thought Adventure could be improved if there was an option where you can play any characters on the fly in any stage, like Tails or Knuckles in a Sonic stage, but after you finish each story. I tried it with a mod for a Steam version of the game and I have to say it improved the game experience.

You're not supposed to enjoy Final Egg, dumbass. It's FINAL Egg. It's intended to rip your guts out.

Final Egg is easy as shit dumb nigger

For you

I actually don't remember it that well, I might just be associating Egg Viper with the rest of the stage.

Egg Viper was one of my favorite bosses in video games.

None of those stages are bad except for Big's.

Because the games weren't really that great to begin with, have aged like shit, Sega fucked up all their dev teams after going third party so the original team isn't there and nobody buys Sonic anymore except for a small portion of the Nintendo fanbase.

Also Sonic '06 was Sonic Adventure 3.

Leave

Generations isn't bad but it's very overrated.

Boost gameplay isn't nearly as fun or freeform as Adventure gameplay,and the level design is overly horizontal

There's also mandatory 2d sections shoved into the 3d stages for some stupid reason and it completely kills any feeling of momentum. Then again, I might be biased, because i've never particularly liked the 2d sonic games that much, but I do certainly reemember liking the advance games a hell of a lot more then I like the 2d sections and 2d stages in Generations

I'd argue sonic inherently works better as a 3d game just due to the fact in 3d you can see ahead of you. The 3d games have also handled the platforming elements better I feel where they don't act force you to slow down nearly as much as they do in the 2d games.

Freedom Planet is great though and solves nearly all the issues I have with 2d sonic games

No, it's not. I don't know why people keep spreading this meme. It has nothing more in common with the Sa1 and Sa2 then heros or shadow does, and half the shit people point to that it has in common with the adventure games, colors, unleashed, and generations also fucking do

I can't speak for 1 because I never liked 1 that much, but Sa2 is pretty much exactly as fun and flawed as it was back in the day. Then people acting as if the shitty camera and slippery physics and general lack of polish and jankyness are "age" clearly never played it back in the day because people complained about them but had fun with the game in spite of those flaws at the time.

Sa2 is a deeply flawed game that, as testament to how fun and good the core of the game is, is a ton of fun in spite of or even sometimes because of it's flaws.

Because SEGA finally realized that these games put Sonic into a shithole. These games had the worst character design for Sonic. Everything about the game fucking sucked. These games only appealed to hentai faggots and it spawned a generation of weebs and devianartfags. Glad they're bringing back the classic Sonic, so maybe the modern Sonic can finally get the fuck out of here.
You know I'm right.

I know you're memeing but classic Sonic is legit a more appealing design than modern. Classic looks like a character, Modern looks like a perpetually smug logo.

It has multiple playable characters
It has multiple side missions
It has multiple hub worlds
It has multiple power ups for the main characters.
It has boss fights between the main characters
Everyone unites at the end to fight the bad guy (main characters go super saiyan)

It is definitely a sonic adventure 3 but they didn't call it 3 because everyone started the reboot for a wider audience mentality.

Classic Sonic looks like what Sonic should look like. Modern Sonic is anime shit that only a stupid jap would come up with.

Autism detected as if it wasn't already obvious from him making a sonic thread.

He is not "memeing" at all, you faggot. He's 100% right.

I don't know OP but I do know I got As in almost every level in SA2B before my memory card and two wavebirds got fucking stolen from a "friend's" house.

Chao garden was fucking awesome and I wish there was any remote equivalent in an action platformer today a game that's fast when you want it, comfy when you don't.

This guy knows what he's talking about.

Dubs confirm. Classonic is the best design (3&k one is the best of the best). Inspired by 50's mascots like Micky Mouse and Felix the cat, nicely round shaped, can be adorable and badass at the same time. Modern is not bad, it's just worse, 2006 - complete shit, modern-modern is kinda ok like previous modern, boom is retarded and looks deviant-art tier. Funny how actual games is just as good as design of main character.

SO SORRY, But the this is the best sonic design

ON
THE
MONEY

This, right amount of roundness while not being a midget.

No.

It's because of the ridges. Above his eyes. I don't really have a problem with Modern Sonic, but I blame the ridges for making his eyes look too much like actual eyes instead of cartoon design. It's why people are legit questioning why Sonic has one eyeball with two irises and why the green eyes was a problem. The appeal of Classic Sonic's design was that he looked like classy Fleischer cartoon. Hell, I'm sure you can accomplish that retro design with green eyes just by getting rid of the ridges.

Wait, people didn't like Heroes?

This was a goodass Sonic game, hopefully we'll get a sequel one day.

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heroes is actually good it has the best song which the singer likes the most

It sure does.

No they were pretty fun. Especially the sanic and shadow stages.

It was shit m8.

I liked Heroes outside of the casino level.
The only Sonic games I really dislike are 06, the DS RPG, and Spinball for being so goddamn hard.

Sonic Heroes working title was Sonic adventure 3.
Go play sonic heroes again.

The problem with casino levels was that on average they took about 10+ minutes each to beat.

That's the problem with the 3D games though. Too much focus on "gotta go fast".

Sonic was never good

Watch the DYKG on Sonic Heroes. The devs explain why they stopped making Adventure games.

As for why they stopped making games with free 3D movement like Adventure or Heroes, I don't know.

The N64 was released 20 years ago, user.

proof?

There are like 6 other sonic games that have this. It's not specific to the adventure games at all.

Sa2 has niether sidemissions nor hub worlds, whersas, say, unleashes does.

Pretty much every game since adventure 1 has had this happen, not just Sa1 and Sa2.

Why is that a problem?

Prepare to feel old, user.
archive.fo/WklKI
archive.fo/NY3Fa

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Here's the thing though, Dreamcast Sonic is superior to both Classic and Modern Sonic mainly since the character itself is a staple of its Japanese roots, one of the biggest issues I saw with Sonic going into the dreamcast wasn't making it 3D but rather the marketing technique. I won't deny it's brilliance during the Genesis era, but you're a fucking idiot if you believe that shit would fly in the age of the Internet where everyone knows what's changed, censored or different in a game. We have more communication with Japanese gamers than we did back then, and to say that merging the character wasn't a logical move is just pure nonsensical nostalgia. Not to mention that SEGA has been trying to westernize the character again, which proves my point that the Sonic in Sonic Adventure is a MUCH better character than the Cartoon Network Sonic that they bring over in the states.

tl;dr

Sonic is at his best when he's Japanese and you're a fucking idiot.

underage get out

I had a life ruined by imageboards user
i've been on this shit ever since i was 7 and saw the HACKERS ON STEROIDS

Not underage here, but i feel you lad.
Post CP of yourself

honestly, I have a fondness of the Sonic from the OVA/Sonic CD. Mainly since he has a Japanese style to him, rather than the shitty american design that they've used on Western box art and to some extent Generations.

Like honestly, I think they should've used the concept on the left that basically keeps sonic's eye black and his spikes a bit shorter, but makes him a bit thinner and taller.

I've been on imageboards since I was in my mother's fetus, what's your excuse?

also fuck flags

The only way to build a 3D environment for speed is to put the whole damn thing on rails. That or have carefully laid out pre-determined routes. either way you lose any benefits a Z-axis would give. Granted you shouldn't be going fast without already having some knowledge of the level from previous attempts.

I tried playing Adventure 2 Battle for the first time this year and the game is… not good. I don't know if it just hasn't aged well or what but I can't see myself actually finishing it.

Freedom Planet is excellent

Advance 3 has one of the best zones in the series in Chaos Angel. Too bad the rest of the game sans Sunset Hill is okay at best

The game is shit, but the Sonic stages themselves are solid. It's one of the reasons people said "we only want sonic stages"

When really I think people meant "We want high speed action rather than be interrupted by fetch quests and poorly designed mech stages" I think it would be better if the mech stages returned but not fucked up like in the way they designed it.

Here's some examples of how they could do SA3

It grows on you. Like, it's my fourth favorite game of all time, but there's no denying it's got some severe issues.

The camera is garbage, the physics can feel extremely slippery, there are numerous bugs, characters talk over one another, and there's just a general lack of polish.

But I legitimately feel depsite all that it's the best sonic has ever actually executed on going fast as a design philopshy and building a game around that while keeping elements of series staples.

You say the solution is to put it on rails/pre determined routes, but that's what Sa2 does: it's very linear and the branches it does have are essenitally just shortcut routes.

This is, in my opinion, the 2d game's biggest issue. It expects you to fail before you can go fast. There's nothing wrong with encouraging players to replay stages, but when your entire IP is built around the idea of speed, going fast should be the DEFAULT state, and going FASTER should be the reward for expierence. This is, again, what Sa2 does. You can go super fast even on your first run through stage,s and hell, if your reaction time is good enough and you are observant enough, you can find those extra shortcuts your first run too to go even faster. But in the 2d games, generally, it's simply physically infeasible to react fast enough to things as they come into view due to viewing stuff from the side and not being able to see ahead of you.

Freedom planet avoids this by having danger indicators, altering the centering of the screen to be focused to the left when you go fast so you have an expanded view, and altering the level design to outright be more explorative so there's not as much pressure or desire to go fast, as well as by modifying the health and damage systems so you have an actual healthbar and contact with enemies doesn't cause damage, only getting hit by attacks does.

I don't get people's hate for the mech or treasure stages either.

There's no debating the speed stages are the best, but only rouge's stages are truly bad, on average. Eggman and knuckles were designed to play how they play and it shows, wheras rouge and tails were added later in devolpment and they play worse as a result.

Here's how i'd rank every stage. A being excellent, B being great, C being decent, D being Eh, and E being terrible. D- in particular is where a stage goes from being more frustrating then it's worth

Sonic:
City Escape: A+
Metal Harbor: A
Green Forest: B+
Pyramid Cave: C
Crazy Gadget: E+
Final Rush: C-

Shadow:
Radical Highway: A+
White Jungle: A
Sky Rail: C
Final Chase: D+

Tails:
Prison Lane: C+
Mission Street: C
Route 101: D
Hidden Base: C
Eternal Engine: D-

Eggman:
Iron Gate: B+
Sand Ocean: C
Lost Colony: C
Weapons bed: B-
Cosmic Wall: A-

Knuckles:
Wild Canyon: B-
Pumpkin Hill: A-
Aquatic Mine: D-
Death Chamber: D-
Meteor Herd: B

Rouge:
Dry Lagoon: C+
Egg Quarters: E-
Security Hall: D
Route 280: D
Mad Space: E-

Cannon's core: B-

Fucking this

Source?

It's clear that was made by a huge sonic autistic
The reason people hated all those games were because they were shit

DRy Lagoon was based, sorry

Also now do one for Sonic Adventure 1

I'm just here for the inevitable awful fetish porn dump.

Just imagine if they were able to make a Sonic Adventure 3 that was super polished and LOADED with content

Not gonna happen on my watch

Two Babies One Fox time?

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please no

Requesting Rouge getting railed by tentacles

I'll post these and be done. Don't want to derail the thread or get banned for dumpin.

dont you fucking dare

Ironically enough, all the driving section characters are shit.

For the Amy stuff, I say that if you're going to have robots, make the puzzles relative to the robots. And make her a little faster. Just because her gameplay in all games she's been in feels like her mallet is wedged into her vagina doesn't actually mean it is.excluding Sonic Boom

Also, Metal Sonic stages should play to his strength in linear speed.

That's what Generations did. And for the most part it's successful, but as you can see there are people that kinda wish for more.

I think the best way is to add some sort of brake button to Sonic. There are people that aren't used to playing as Sonic and approaching high speed quickly so they're going to feel intimidated and mess up. The brake adds a sense of security, and can add so much more to the game. Like if you're holding the down the brake button and standing still you can dash with the direction pad. Or if you need to stop before hitting an enemy, the brake will be there for you. Hell, you can use it to play in normal 3D platformer speed and when you're more used to it then you can let go and such.

Sorry, don't have one off the top of my head, but i've heard it from more then one place.

It could be wrong but it certainly seems true since as I said, rouge and tail's missions are a lot more phoned in feeling.

I have dry lagoon as a C+ though? That's pretty good. Bordering on great.

I thought so too, as a kid back in the day I remember hating them with a passion, but when I replayed the game nback when it first came out on steam I didn't find them nearly as bad

I think I, and most people, are mixing up the specific missions where you have to do them without hitting walls/oither cars. THOSE missions are fucking awful, but the default versions are fine, even if they aren't particulary good.

how can you dislike heroes but like adventure?

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Claim superiority to everyone currently alive by killing yourself.

LET'S HEAR SOME NOISE IF YOU WANT SONIC ADVENTURE 3

We have no announcement about sonic adventure 3 at this time

Don't you mean Sonic Adventure 4?

[DEEP LATIN CHANTING INTENSIFIES]

im already dead

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I enjoy them, but the first Adventure is the only one I'd say even approaches "good". Way too many mandatory gameplay styles, instead of just focusing on one extremely polished one with maybe a few optional bonus gameplay styles, and an overall lack of polish regarding the physics, controls, and collision completely mar the experience.
'06 is basically Adventure 3, just extremely rushed out the door well before it was ready.
Was basically Sonic's Adventure gameplay with extra gameplay styles (like the Adventure games) and classic style stage progression (which I find superior).
Was a cartoon.

The heart of the matter is that the Adventure games aren't nearly as good as you chock them up to be. They were full of technical problems and design flaws. I think a polished up game with just Adventure's Sonic gameplay would be great, but don't act like the Adventure games were amazing when they weren't.

Sonic ain't shit. Where's the Robotnik spinoff that isn't a Puyo Puyo clone already? I wanna hate that fucking hedgehog and I want it now.

It's like you don't speedrun Sonic games like you're supposed to. This level is the most fun to speedrun. How can you not enjoy going fast in a game about going fast? Do you not know how to do super bounce?

Okay's not so bad, especially compared with that GBA port of Sonic 1.

Exactly.
That's why the best casino level is still Casino Night Zone from Sonic 2.

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That doesn't sound like

NEW JET SET RADIO NEVER FUCKING EVER

JET SET RADIO FUTURE PC PORT NEVER FUCKING EVER

Sonic is absolute shit. Give me more Jet Set Radio and I will cum with joy.

most cringeworthy dialogue/"story" even among the already wholly cringeworthy franchise that is sonic, so that's saying a lot. I got muscle cramps from all the cringing, but I can't just skip everything because they're part of the game
I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS
I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS
I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS

Bullshit, faggot, Sonic's own gameplay was great in Adventure and the rest of the games, short of Amy and Big, were mediocre at worst. I can personally testify to Sonic in the first Adventure aging just fine.

Werehog alone is enough to drag Unleashed all the way down to shit.

8/10 list. Pretty accurate, except for some personal preferences like Wild Canyon needing a B+, Aquatic Mine being way too low rated, Egg Quarters and Security Hall having note worthy gimmicks, and Final Chase, although slow, deserving at least a C+. Now do what this user said

Dry Lagoon's problem is the transportation. The turtles can be a pain in the ass, and it isn't nearly as open as Wild Canyon.

Unless you're autistic, Crazy Gadgets is terrible. Playing like any normal person would, the stage is just too slow, so I understand why speedrunners like it, but normal people don't compared to straight forward stages like City Escape and Metal Harbor, not to mention that the OST is pretty shitty in comparison too.

I'll give you Amy's levels being slow and gimmicky, though not really intolerable or worse than mediocre, but I have to wonder where all the hate for Bigs' levels comes, in retrospect. I really didn't like them when I was younger and it honestly delayed my finishing the game, but in the end it's just a cozy fishing minigame. It's also Sega Bass Fishing verbatim, but still. Maybe I'm giving it too much credit, considering the fish had a tendency to be blind and never get on the fucking hook. If he wasn't in a mainline Sonic game and the levels/fishing had some proper depth, I imagine a Big spinoff game would've been fondly remembered.

An obligatory one. It slowed the game down.

heroes wasn't bad, just different, but unleashed's sonic levels and generations was bad

just wait for sonic utopia, vid related, and hope they add a chao garden; you can play a demo of the first level
pc0.hapisan.com/SonicUtopia10232016521.rar
link is from the description
powered by unity

i ended up not minding bigs levels that much because all the characters played differently anyways. i was sort of expecting something odd like that to happen.

Looks pretty nice. Will it have modern sonic as well? Shame for the unity.
A few months ago I played a Sonic fan game demo about modern sonic and a bunch of other characters that will have a chao garden too.

Ah, it's sonic world.

and before you tell me
or >theres no direction
they aren't too big, though as to that last one, its not so obvious at first where to go after you get out of the starting area
this was recorded with the graphics quality set to "fastest", and this level isn't as long as some regular 3D sonic levels, such as final rush or speed highway

i really doubt it

I'm pretty sure Sonic Underground cane before Adventure.

also i dont know much about the werehog levels, having not played it myself

True. Like I said, Big was the only character who I never finished the campaign for when I was a wee little shite. Gating the ending behind something no one is really inclined to do isn't the best idea.

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I think they said already that it was for sex appeal.

Are you retarded? Sonic adventure is an absolute pile of shit. It's pathetic.

It was so Hunnid-P could complete the rap trifecta of murder, drugs, and sex.

Forgot vid

these imo are the best sonic/shadow levels out of A1/A2:
final rush
sky rail
sky deck, except the first 15 seconds or so
speed highway

at least with the rails, there were usually multiple options

This. The gameplay was good for its time, when 3D platformers were just starting to figure themselves out, but it has aged horribly. I played both 1 and 2 after 06 because everyone told me how much better they were, but it was the same shit. Clearly they had more time to work on 1 and 2, but it was still a janky mess with the most cringeworthy dialogue of all time.

Nope. It was absolutely pathetic back then too.

Rouge is blatantly a sex symbol. That's not even arguable. Just look at any of her fucking artwork.

When will this shitty Holla Forums meme end?

It's almost funny how completely divorced from the plot Knuckles and Rouge are. Rouge less so because of stealing the Chsos Emeralds, but that doesn't seem like anything Shadow couldn't have done himself with a little effort. Knuckles is off doing his own shit to repair the Master Emerald, which only becomes kind of relevant in the last few minutes.

It was 'meh' at worst. Terrible compared to what Mario was offering at the time, but better than Bubsy 3D.

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Autistic means being more emotional and sentimental according to my doctor.

I don't see shit to remotely argue liking Sonic is for being socially awkward.

I love Kick the Rock, but the Rouge part is the only part that gets a little cringy. I hate all the focus they put on the Knuckles/Rogue relationship, that ended at nothing anyway, like this user said
Kick the Rock would be perfect without the Rogue part.

I kind of agree with you. But SA1 and SA2 are better than most modern sonic games. They just needed way more polish, but not like Sonic Generations modern sonic stages did.

Yeah, that's autistic, user, not matter what the game is. Games are made to play by the rules, wanting to break them is autistic.
It's not unless you're full furry.
Only if everyone acts like you, which, thank god, not everyone does. Also, there's different levels and kinds of autism.

what point are you trying to make?

That can translate as to being overly passionate about something, which actual autists are, too. So being overly passionate about speedrunning, which is a requirement for speedrunning, apparently, makes speedrunning itself autistic.

That he is proud of being an autist.

Hoe in the hell is breaking the rules autism? If you found a way to defy the laws of the universe and were able to reverse gravity or time travel, would that be autistic?

Autism

Not according to a medical professional. Although ADHD is similar to autism I guess.

You're making autism sound like a fucking buzzword with how baselessly I'm seeing it shat out.

maybe if it involved standing under a gate in knee high water for 12 hours

Wading in water is autistic?

Because devs try to make breaking the rules really hard or at least not common. There's a reason there is people that try their hardest to break them, and that's autism.
Depends on how hard you try to break them.
I thought that, although Autists have it hard to socialize, they are pretty great at doing specific tasks.

It is a buzzword the way it's used here. But, if it will be a buzzword, people should at least know how to use it correctly. It's like the bastardization of cuck.

no its just an ebin pannenkoek mario reference, sheesh why do you have to be such a drag?

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I forgot about parallel universes.

Oh, who the fuck am I kidding? Of course, it's been.

No, trying REALLY hard, is autism.
You normally wouldn't find bugs or exploits in games. Finding them, or even using them, considering the level of complexity they might have, is autism. Since speedrunning requires you to try your hardest AND using exploits, speedrunning is the most autistic stuff that there can be.

The super bounce glitch isn't even that hard to pull off, just do a bounce attack right before hitting a wall while going really fast and it will turn your horizontal momentum into vertical momentum. Doing so will allow you traverse levels in ways that were never intended and opens up the levels in a way that gives the player much more freedom. Honestly instead of being a glitch, it should have been a gameplay mechanic.

Like animation cancel? Only autists do that.
The problem with both of those is that it doesn't fit the gameplay aesthetically and logically. A wall is supposed to be just a wall and your bounce is just supposed to be used on the ground. Unless you implement an actual animation that balance the super bounce it would break the game,that's why only speedrunners AKA autists do it. You can finish the game, even the hard mode missions, without it.
Also, I can argue that some gameplay mechanics come from glitches/bugs, like the combo system in street fighter, but the difference is, developers tend to polish those mechanics to not break the game, to make sense, and to look good.

Also, consider that being an autists is not necessarily an insult or a negative thing. It just means that you're way too passionate in something, usually trivial. You already said that being on Holla Forums classify you as an autist.

Heroes, Shadow, and '06 all have merits as being sequels to the Adventure franchise. Or I guess you could consider Shadow a spinoff of the Adventure franchise. The gameplay is quite similar, with Heroes and Shadow adding gimmicks but the same basic concepts, and '06 is pretty much Sonic Adventure 3 in all but name, except it was a literal beta prototype rushed to release before they even got a chance to dummy out unfinished concepts (like those gems), and when that failed, Sega threw the baby out with the bathwater and decided the entire gameplay style and story style was the problem, and not the fact that the game was a fucking prototype. Plus Heroes and Shadow weren't particularly polished either.

Unleashed is also called World Adventure in Japan, and I appreciate that they tried again with the Adventure Fields and actually did a good job with them again this time (unlike '06, where they were pointless and lifeless, and the load times made it unbearable to even try to interact with NPCs). Of course the basic gameplay style is entirely different. Adventure Sonic was out and Modern Sonic was in. While I appreciate that Unleashed is a very polished game with tons and tons of content, as well as a plot that tries to distance itself from the previous games but still at least tries to be a real plot, I just can't get behind the gameplay of Modern Sonic, the boost mechanic and sparse racetrack courses. I much prefer Adventure Sonic's style of gameplay, which felt much more like an accurate translation of Classic Sonic to 3D. As proof, you can even unlock Green Hill Zone in Sonic Adventure 2, converted to 3D, but it's actually the same level, and it plays great. Very short compared to the other levels in that game, but actually the same length as in the original. I believe the world record for a long time was even the exact same time across both 2D and 3D. Meanwhile, the level had to be entirely redesigned for Generations, because that game, and Modern Sonic in general, is more like Dimps Sonic translated to (half) 3D, whereas Adventure Sonic was actually Classic Sonic converted to 3D.

Also, OP listed a bunch of games that weren't main series games anyway. Secret Rings and Black Knight were spinoffs. Boom wasn't even the same universe. The main series is
1>2>3&K>Adventure>Adventure 2>Heroes>Shadow (arguably)>'06>Unleashed>Generations>Lost World>2017
The rest don't count, even if a lot of them (like say the Game Gear Games, or Spinball) are actually pretty good.

I won't argue if they're good or not, I'm just saying that Colors is more main serie than unleashed. In fact, unleashed plays more like an spin-off than a main serie game.

Why not Advance Wars with customizable units?

Fuck I forgot Colors. Meant to include that. I just always forget it because I think it's overrated and mediocre as fuck. I can't stand when people say that's one of the best ones in the series or even say that it's any better than Unleashed, but it is obviously main series.

Unleashed is definitely main series though. So long as you're talking about the HD version and not the Dimps Wii/PS2 version. It's Sonic Team's follow up to '06. It's definitely main series.

Enjoy your lucky trip

You're right, super bouncing does break the game to an insane degree, but that doesn't stop it from being fun as hell to do. But it does help the flow of the game quite a bit. For example, in Crazy Gadget, instead of fucking around with the gravity switches all day, you can just super bounce you're way around them. It's really useful to make segments that are boring or tedious kind of fun or interesting.

Colors absolutely kicks the shit out of Unleashed.

I don't know what the fuck my brother's talking about when he says the Wisps make a game like Sonic way too gimmicky when all they do is make platforming much more fun and unique. All it needs is a solid constant 60fps and a good amount of levels made much longer. How is it not one of the best games with the great soundtrack, great balanced evolution of speed and control from Unleashed, great level design with a solid balance of speed and platforming and highly enjoyable ability mechanic like Wisps?

But that's not how you're supposed to move through Crazy Gadget, which makes Crazy Gadget a shit level, to the point that you have to cheat to make it fun. That's actually the problem.
Not everyone play to speedrun. And not everyone know about super bounce, since it's not part of the gameplay or hinted anywhere except in the community. I won't argue that exploits can make a game more fun, that's a fact, but the point is that Crazy Gadget is a bad level without super bounce, and since super bounce isn't part of the "normal gameplay", then the stage is just plain bad.

Although I agree with you with Colors, I can't agree with you in Unleashed. They're both mediocre, but at least Color was a seemingly important release, and it was hyped even as a Wii/DS exclusive, whereas Unleashed was barely known at the release,even when it was released in so many platforms.
LostWorld is also main serie, apparently.

Never said it was a good level, only fun if you play it a certain way. Nothing is more satisfying than falling blindly towards the goal ring and getting that

Colors is mostly a 2D game that doesn't even play like Classic Sonic. Hell, it barely even plays like Dimps Sonic. What with double jump and the slower pace of the 2D sections in general.

The 3D sections seem fast, but that's because a large portion of them are glorified cutscenes where you hold B and just watch stuff happen. And the rest are largely all quickstep shit, glorified QTEs.

To top it off, the game is quite short compared to the games before it, including Unleashed. There just doesn't feel like there's as much to do.

I just can't get into Modern Sonic's gameplay style, and Colors takes everything I don't like about it and ramps it up to 11. Still a good game, I 100%ed it, but I didn't have nearly as much fun as I did with Unleashed or Generations.

You also mention Colors' soundtrack, but honestly I think it's one of the weakest in the series. Not to say it's bad, but Sonic always has amazing music, so much so that the one game in the series with bad music (Chronicles) is well known for it. I'm sure if that game wasn't Sonic, its music wouldn't be legendary bad and just regular shitty. But it sticks out since every Sonic game is up there with some of the best video game music ever.

I thought Unleashed was pretty well known, at least among people who gave a shit about platformers in 2007. If anything, I saw more people disregarding Colors for being Wii exclusive, when Wii games at the time, including the Wii version of Unleashed, were mostly closer to being shovelware, outside of first party titles.

The Wii version of Unleashed was also on the PS2, in case you didn't know. Didn't know that until recently.

I did, but that's just even worse.

I never understood why they made two completely different games instead of just downgrading the graphics.

An interesting note is that the boss fights from the Wii/PS2 versions seem to actually lead into the boss fights from the HD versions. The damage you do to the boss in the former, the way you change its form, seems to already be there in the HD versions.

Different studios made them. It's like asking why Colors DS isn't just the Wii version with downgraded graphics.

Makes you wonder if the Wii/PS2 version was just a beta version of the game that was scrapped in development in favor of the PS3/360 version, but was finished just for something to have on the Wii/PS2. Who the hell knows.

This guy was the best.
We need more of him.

Generations gave him a ballin' remix but the fight itself sucked (especially since you shouldn't be fighting him).

Amy's stages were alright. And while I can understand not wanting a fishing minigame in Sonic, Big is tolerable. Plus, they both only have like three stages.

You can do that in the Dreamcast version just by exploiting glitches. Adventure 1 is a game where it pisses me off when people complain about the glitches, because they aren't usually the type that gets in your way and hinders your experience, they're the type of glitches where you can do cool shit if you look for them and learn to exploit them.

Considering that it came out two years after '06, I doubt it.

But you do that in all but one of the games he appears in (excluding spin-offs like Drift).

It's a remix of his Sonic CD theme and stage, which is the game where you race against him instead of fighting him.

Confirmed for not knowing what the fuck you're talking about.

Because '06 bombed due to being not nearly close to finished, so they threw the baby out with the bathwater and decided to redo the entire style and concept of the gameplay.

It was the third and final game to have that style of Sonic gameplay. Heroes and Shadow have similar styles that are made different by significant gimmicks (teams, guns), so you can argue for them as well, but '06 really is incredibly similar to the Adventure series gameplay wise.

This is what Modern Sonic (Unleashed, Colors, Generations) does. I don't care for it, though I do like those games overall.

This is what Adventure Sonic (Adventure 1 and 2, Heroes, Shadow, '06) did. I think when it was done right it was the best. I don't get your complaints, because "carefully laid out pre-determined routes" is also known as "level design." Unless you're just advocating for nothing but open world, but that's bullshit and everyone knows it.

Adventure 2 is one of my all time favorites. Those carefully laid out pre-determined routes is precisely why. Combined with the multiple missions on every level and the ranking system, it encourages you to really learn the levels for best times and scores, and it feels very fulfilling getting that sense of speed and flow when you master a level after all the exploration and experimentation that it takes to learn the best routes and actually be able to take them.

I think '06 had a good idea for how to handle Shadow's gameplay, and they should have extended it to other characters if they wanted to have other characters at all. He was Sonic with less agility (bounce and other special moves) but with more offensive capabilities (Chaos Blast instead of guns). He was also slow as fuck, and I wouldn't have done that, but the idea was sound. Everyone should be Sonic with minor changes, as in 3&K.

That said, I think Knuckles and Rouge were just fine before and I don't get the complaints. It's only slow if you're not good, which is the case with Sonic as well. Same goes for Eggman, actually. When you're good, you have to go fast as fuck to get the highest combos and actually get A Ranks. If you're slow, you're playing wrong, unless you're out to explore for secrets, because there are actually a good number of those. I don't think going slow to look for them is a problem. That happens in the old games too, especially Sonic CD, which is much more exploration based, and seems to be a lot of people's favorites.

Rouge and Tails are literally alt skins for Knuckles and Eggman. I don't see how you can say one skin is bad and the other good. I don't get how you could say Rouge's stages are worse than Knuckles, or Tails worse than Eggman, other than the disappointment of not actually getting to fly around as Tails. But mechanically, they're the same thing.

Clearly Shadow, Rouge, and Tails gameplay styles were all added later, they're all just copies of pre-existing characters. Tails might not be a new character but obviously they just wanted an alt-Eggman or else you would have gotten to fly around as him.

Due to the design of Modern Sonic, where speed is a given rather than something you earn by being good at the game, the levels are designed very sparsely, so there's no point in braking. At most points in a level, there's nothing there except a long hallway. Everything in the hallway is spaced far apart.

By liking the adventuring aspect of adventure. It's not like Heroes has better gameplay. Equal maybe, but not better. Also when Adventure asks you to play the same level as different characters, it is much more different than in Heroes.

Which Adventure 2 did more directly, since it was only split up into two stories instead of four. It's basically Adventure but cuts down on the gameplay styles and polishes the three that are left, which seems closer to what you want, so I don't see why you'd say it's worse.

And I'm sure when he said Underground that he meant Unleashed.

Plus, the glitches that are in Adventure aren't the kind that hinder the gameplay. You can play through the game and never notice them. It's the type of thing where if you try to jump into a specific corner again and again you can get characters into levels meant for other characters.

You don't even play as Eggman in that game. Sonic Adventure 2 is as close as you'll get.

What about a compromise of Shadow using rocket shoes instead of all the cool characters from Jet Set Radio using rollerblades? Because you know that's as close as Sega will ever get.

Oh wait, even Shadow hasn't appeared in years. Sega is ashamed of everything from the Dreamcast generation.

pic related

This makes no sense whatsoever. 1998 was the height of 3D platformers. After that you got fewer and fewer. You can probably count the number of 3D platformers on PS2 on your fingers, and there are even less since then. The ones that came out later weren't necessarily better either. If anything they just started doing away with platforming and shifting to other genres, like how Ratchet & Clank became more and more of a shooter over time.

And had utterly broken physics on the game tables, even by the generally iffy standards of that game's physics.

I don't actually like Unleashed-style gameplay because of the awkward 2D+3D mixing, and constrained movement that's far too on-rails.

This is clearly intended to be used in some games. Like in God Hand where you can usually dodge-cancel, except when executing some moves where it would be nonsensical (barrel-roll kick for example). Maybe not intended for spamming HSK or Long Straight though.

I've been screwed over by the game quite a few times actually thanks to buggy physics. For a game with fun exploitable physics that generally don't screw you over, look at Quake.

Outright terrible even compared to his StH incarnation. Keep the guns, remove the lengthy wailing on enemies to kill them, maybe expand on chaos powers, severly limit the vehicle sections or remove them ('06's main mistake).

Dodge-cancel is alright, but I already said that the problem comes from actual exploits. If the game is designed around animation cancel is ok, but animation cancel in a game where animation cancel clearly doesn't have anything to do with it is bullshit and cheating.

this looks fun

I'm talking about the concept of Shadow in '06. The idea of making him basically Sonic with less agility but more offensive capabilities makes sense. It could even translate to the 2D games. Obviously the execution in '06 leaves a whole lot to be desired, and it is indeed much more fun to just play Shadow's solo game.

Well firstly, bug/feature is not always clear-cut. For example in F-Zero GX you have shift boosting (enter-exit the track repeatedly to go wicked fast) which sounds nonsensical but the staff ghost of Lateral Shift uses it. Secondly, "bullshit and cheating" is a very narrow take, some exploits can be a lot of fun even outside of speedrunning (doing dungeons out-of-order in OoT for example), and, also, when ridiculous glitches exist, people typically impose their own restrictions, for example, any% in Pokémon is a 0:00 in-game time, so you have the restricted ones like no save corruption, or "glitchless" for variety. Similarly, most people don't use the Alucard Shield.

It obviously a lot touchier in multiplayer games with other people, but in most of those cases I'd blame the designers for not fixing bugs.

Oh sure. But keep guns please, I actually enjoyed using them, particularly on realizing full chaos bar = infinite ammo.

Holla Forums, why are you so fucking autistic when yuo discuss Sonic? It's like a fucking warzone in here.

Disgusting.
I never said the contrary, what I said it's that they're bullshit and cheating, fun doesn't change that fact, saying that they should be officially implemented is retarded, at least the way they are.
The thing with the Alucard Shield is that I doubt they thought it was going to break the game that hard, same with crissaegrim. SOTN is a terrible example for how imbalanced it is even without both the Alucard Shield or the Crissaegrim

Holy shit, I never knew that. I think theguns system need to be used while you moved, and a better aim system.What I want is basically Sonic with guns, and build the world around that.

The developer knows of it so is it really cheating if they didn't fix it before release? You could argue that shifting repeatedly on-and-off the track isn't a correct use (in Lateral Shift it's used differently, video related) but it's the same mechanic! Also it should be said that the technique requires a lot of skill to pull off when done repeatedly like bunny-hopping does (see the AGDQ2014 playthrough with CGN, even he falls off the track a few times). Another example of developer-known exploit is the silent BFG trick.

Well in a sense, they are, because that's the game they presented to the public. Also "bullshit and cheating" is a very loaded phrasing, implying that it cannot be good in any way.

I'm not using that as an example of good design, only that people usually don't go for cheap exploits unless they're more fun than not doing so, not in singleplayer at least. Similarly there are challenge runs of OoE that don't use broken features like the death ring.

Again, in multiplayer it's a lot more tempting to exploit bad bugs/features to get an edge, but that's again, usually the fault of the designers for not fixing it.

Yeah it took me a while to notice but that's how you're supposed to defeat certain bosses quickly. You can prolong the effect by killing enemies to keep the bar up as it drains too.

Also I had no real issue with the way guns worked or auto-aiming system, only the cramped levels and slippery movement making it a chore to run-and-gun enemies fluidly.

I like how you post about a "warzone" after I post Mako dakka-dakka.

06 killed the adventure formula. the main problem with sega and most gook devs is that they have no idea what people in the west actually want. they can only see whats currently popular and what has worked in the past(but they dont know why), they have no clue what's missing or what could become a big hit. sonic fails so hard at this because they try to pander to the western audience

after 06 they thought people were simply sick of the adventure formula so they decided to try something new. they flailed around for a bit before they finally got it kind of right with generations which was ok but not great. they then decided to be more like mario because mario seems to be popular. when that failed they are now dropping back to the generations formula and "classic" for 2017 because people seemed to like that. they will keep it going with the same formula until people are sick of it and then they will flail around for a while again with new game styles until they make something that kind of works. this could mean that they eventually drop back to the adventure formula but i'm not too hopeful

Please hurry up and die.

i will never understand why these games are popular. shitty controls, worst camera of any game, i would take colors, unleashed, generations, even lost world (which practically plays itself) over this blatantly unfinished rushed garbage

I was mentally cherrypicking Candy Mountain and the Nega Wisp Armor phases when I thought it had a great soundtrack. Never mind.

I don't know what you're talking about with 3D sections, though. The only times I've had to quickstep a lot were a select few levels scattered between 3 worlds and the last stage. Otherwise it's more subdued Unleashed without boosting mindlessly through some parts. Only the framerate actually makes any of it feels slow at long as Sonic doesn't actually have to climb up a 2D platforming section.

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i guarantee i could play any level in the game and it would play just as clunky. you cant even run around the overworld without waiting for the camera to slowly pan enough for you to see where to go. maybe you are just used to it

SADX is a very flawed game and there are many examples of questionable game design, but at the same time it's evident from your gameplay footage that you need to git gud.
Yeah, I'm sure you'd like a game that plays itself.

When I say technical problems, I'm talking more control issues and dodgy collision with platform edges, which is especially noticeable in mech stages.
Concerning Heroes, I meant more that the levels are just a collection of fantastical environments with no real logical transition between them, like most Sonic games of the classic era. Adventure 2 still tried to have a whole cohesive plot around where all the characters were over time.
Also, if I'm reading your post right, you're saying that SA2 improved all the gameplay styles over Adventure, which I highly disagree with. Sonic/Shadow was improved, but the treasure hunting and shooting styles were a downgrade. The emerald radar was gimped for no good reason in a way that just pads out level time, the hunting stages themselves are either too large or mazelike for the most part, the mechs feel clunky at best, and a lot of the mech stages put far too much focus on platforming. Gamma and Knuckles in SA1 were much more fun to play as.
Not to mention, boss fights in both games aren't great.

You can manually move the camera, you know.

oh yeah, "git gud" to play sonic adventure, there are probably 4 enemies in a level. i would rather they continued with games like sonic mania rather than waste resources on adventurebait

its more restrictive than mario 64 camera, there are more instances where you wont be able to move the camera than where you will and only in a cone not even 360 camera control

It's flawed because of barely decent to mediocre to outright shit gameplay for everyone that isn't Sonic.

My brother also argues Sonic himself in SADX has aged poorly whereas in the year of the God Emperor I see and feel a Sonic that handles smoothly even at high speeds, makes accurate controllable jumps and doesn't take long to get going.

SA2 was where they fucked up in terms of level design and feels like they made him too subdued and linear in terms of the speedster that could launch all over wide environments to get to the end.

And for the record this is not the kind of control I'm talking about.

Though, I do like how spinning was actually worth shit back then. Being able to blast off from a spindash like that does seem like something fit for Sonic games.

Not fast enough.

I could do that level twice as fast that guy doesnt even know to control a hedgehog

Holy shit I've never seen someone play this badly fucking kill yourself.

Nigger, that's a fucking TAS.

bad in what sense? that is s rank, i gained 4 lives in 40 seconds, it doesn't demand skill at all. its just a shit game

They didn't even have ranks until adventure 2 you nigger. Kill yourself you retarded faggot.

SA1 doesn't rank you on performance.

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>TFW enjoying Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Colors DS, and Sonic Generations DS while fags play on-rails 3D Sanics not that I have anything against them

The Adventure series were garbage. It started the "LOL GOTTA GO FAST" shit instead of tight platforming. You want to go fast? Play a racing game faggots.

The only reason the level is that big is because it's a test level. The final version is said to be quite smaller and likely more linear.

I'm completely convinced Sega and Sonic Team are completely allergic to having good things.

I find it amusing that Sonic Team are good at making literally any game that's not Sonic.

You're fucking lying, most of all about SADX.

nice

Sega started the speed run contests with Sonic Adventures. Shit was the tumour that caused the cancer to spread.

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It does. C: Complete the level. B: Collect 100 rings. A: Beat a time limit.

Thats not platforming, thats hand holding racing game mechanics. I see why 3D Sonic players hate the Megadrive games. No one to step in to and hold their hand instead of letting players time the jumps themselves.

ITT: people who parrot Egoraptor's opinions about games

Sonic Adventure 1 was an early 1999 release. It's only a few months newer than Banjo Kazooie, Spyro 1, Crash 3, and Ocarina of Time.

Compared to those games SA1 is insanely ambitious, and even though a fair portion of it doesn't work out the stuff that does is solid.

Plus, Big's story lasts an hour at most if you aren't shit at video games.

I'm talking about Adventure, nigger.

Colors is the only "modern" game I'll defend.

I hate when shitty ecelebs have a somewhat controversial opinion on games, because if you share that opinion then some asshole will always assume you got it from them.

Sonic was never good
t. IGN

But that's not ranking you on performance. Those are just different missions given the label "rank".

it actually manages to fix all the issues of the 2d games while not being shit like the 3d games what the fuck
looking forward to it

Would you agree that the ayy mechanics of Colors detracts from the game the same way that the werehog stages did to unleashed, but to a much lesser extent?

Fuck no, the Wisps are great.

Well then I respectully disagree with you. I guess they're just not for me.

Shit like Werehog is a shit button masher that jarringly eats up most of the entire game regardless of version while the Wisps seamlessly fit into stages as you're rushing through. Only Cube I'd call outright shit.

Sonic 06 is basically Adventure 3

The difference is that 06 could have been decent if it had an extra year of development time. I don't think there was any fixing of that story, though.

I'm sure they were the only way to reach the goal in quite a few stages. It's been a few years since I touched colors, though.

Unleashed was good. Certainly better than the rollercoaster Adventure games

Why SA keep getting lumped in with SA2 when they're actually massively different games physics and stage wise?

Why hasn't anyone tried to fix the load times and the worst of the glitches that actually piss you off?

I'm pretty sure the homebrew scene for the 360 and ps3 are pretty much dead in the water. That and development time for a small team to fix all the issues with the game would still be absurdly long. well over a year at least.

I've never gotten that.

Can anyone who enjoys the game otherwise just doctor up their own patch?

You can greentext Unleashed, good for you.