Is it okay to be pro-leftist economically but anti-muslim immigration?

Just like you.

The question must be asked, why do you fear the muslims?

The answer is inevitable: Jihad.

The reson for jihad is never questioned, however.

Could it be retaliation for western imperialism?

A leftist economy would eliminate the need for labor that Muslim immigration fills to begin with.

However, to actively pursue a lack of movement between Western and Islamic nations is almost certainly going to end up with capitalist apologism.

lol no

Why not economic immigration in general?

but jihad was a thing before western imperialism came to be
first it was against the polytheistic religions that existed in the area
and then it turned towards Christianity

economic migrants are our friends
they will stand with us against the growing oppressive capitalist governments

are you op?

I think his point is that Arabs only started going batshit in XXth century, especially thanks to a) joint USA-salafi cooperation to fight dem commies b) anti-imperialism taking islamic form in some places(only became a thing thanks to the previous point)

no

It was, but the US and UK actively worked to rekindle it. Modern Islamic terrorism was basically started by the CIA.

Loud noises

Yes.

Bullshit. Just because an economy is (market) socialist doesn't mean (local) communities have to accept absolutely everyone.
See the Kurds in Syria for a real world example.

No they won't you naive bellend

Especially by working for lower wages, amirite?

This. If you shut down leftists and seculars and radicalism becomes the only option to resist

Similar to the rising fascism/alt-right in europe and the usa, by the left not being there it became the only option to fight agaisnt neolibs

No.
Can't be a socialist and want borders. It's utterly contradictory.

xplane

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Oh do fuck off

Pro immigration is codeword for anti-union.

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Anarchism and Communism mean removing borders. All leftists who do not fall into these two very broad categories can go fuck themselves.

Socialism, without the intent of reaching communism, must be destroyed like all other waste of time structures.

kys Holla Forums

Islam is a spook and will be dealt accordingly

Count to ten ancum-san

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I don't think it's that bad, some Muslims are backwards culturally and hold views and positions that cannot exist within a civil, secular society. However, you could equally say the same about Christians from Africa or Buddhist Extremists from Thailand.

I think the problem being, Muslims and those who hold different cultural values should intergrate to an extent into our societies and follow some basic guidelines. Letting them do as they please is retarded.

Also, it's completely fine to hate immigration for driving down wages and diminishing an already crumbling jobs market, but I don't think you can really blame the immigrants in these cases considering they don't have much choice after imperialism has already sapped them anyway.

Regardless, you can hold an anti-immigrant stance and still be a Leftist as far as I'm concerned.

Eat a dick unconscious-senpai.

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Has communism ever been tried? Will I ever see communism in my lifetime?

Not this meme again

>>>/out/

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So, national and socialism?

Are they raping kids for that aswell?

So now you're going to call me Holla Forums and post those worn-out pics because I disagreed with you on a semantical issue? Go on.

And what is the cause of the Jihad between Muslims, the Jihad against Buddhists, the Jihad against Hinduism?

Everywhere Muslims are, there is Jihad. What can be the root cause of Jihad?

Well duh, different forms of imperialism tend to fight each other.

Goddamnit, Žižek.

There is no viable leftist nationalism.

Islam (like all religions) is a shit idea, but most of my country already practices a religion.

Screen out Islamists, sure, but not people who manage to compartmentalize it away and wind up no more harmful than the average citizen.

Hindu violence is far, far more prevalent in India than Muslim violence.

Except the Balkans and the majority of African nations, aside from isolated incidents by organizations brought to power by the US

Be careful with that stone in the anarchist glass house.

Nigga do you even 969 movement

I'll admit I laughed.
At least we're viable in at least theory.

Do you think the balkans just decided to become islamic? their countries where conquered and i wonder how the islamic faith spread to africa.

There's literally nothing wrong with jihad. Stop being a spooked little bitch.

t. Abdul al-Kebab

That is pretty much how most of history worked, fam. Europe was mostly pagans in mudhuts until the Romans invaded them.

You wish.

Yeah, no wars ever happened here between religious communities.

Yeah, so what?

The Balkans start wars over literally everything. It's what they do.

The Romans whoo invaded the Gauls were Pagans.

In fact, Gauls were Christianized when the first Frank king converted to Christianity AFTER his conquest of the Gauls.

Europe was pagan even after the Romans for nearly 500 years, up until 500 AD.

Besides this conversion of Europe did not happen by the sword but by advance of the early feudalism since slavery was mostly abolished by the late roman empire, leading into early feudalism making the conversion even more easier for the Europe.

True, true.

Unlike the middle east.

Yeah, history only started in 1980

Technically the only people who converted were those who wanted things like tax exemptions, so kind of. There was no strong encouragement from the Ottoman side, which is why not a lot of balkanites converted

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And how did the Catholic church gain a foothold? At the end of a fucking sword. Syncretic religions were treated just as harshly as nonbelievers.

I am going to tax you until you decide to convert to fascism. What? There is no coercion here.

Not an argument.

Catholic church rose to power thanks to kingdom of Franks whom later became the holy roman empire. Crusades as they were started only after the great scheme in 1045.

Wrong again. They started in a part of the Roman Empire and spread to the rest of the decadent and apathetic empire by proselytism.

Then they proceed to kill different brand of Christians because only one can survive or some other legit reason.

That is totally incorrect.

Quality arguments.

Compared to an actual persecution for religious views which was not practiced because non-muslims were profitable? Pretty much.

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Fine.

-I like being alive.
-People killing me will make me not alive.
-This is why I dislike people killing me.

life is a spook

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Zizek isn't anti-immigration

No, only fighting for the sacred cause, feel free to interpret it the way you like.

Listen, defending the Muslims in the west as a minority with many problems is a thing, trying to cover a religious war against non believers is another.

Yes it is.

I am a leftist and i fucking hate americans and folks from other european nations. I believe my country should close itself from the rest of the world.

switzerland?belgium?

The persecution of the Cathars was pretty clear cut.

I never said the Romans spread Christianity, I am only pointing out that Christianity is a dindu nuffin

We are absolutely not defending reactionary politics and sentiments. We are questioning "jihad" as a boogeyman.

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More like Christianity is the cop and Islam is the dindu

what next, strikes are bad because i gotta get to work?

doesn't matter what reason.
this is inapplicable, you can't tell who's muslim and who isn't.

not everyone is muslim in muslim country just like not everyone is christian in 'murrica

we all know that a big part of the anti-muslim movement come from idpol.
they just don't want brown people (as if all muslim were brown)

not arguing about the threat of islam here, just pointing out that a ban on mislim wouldn't be possible.

The problems with immigration in Germany is that the immigrants are being mass imported. And they are not being integrated into the German society properly. I think it's naive for people to say that Germany doesn't have a immigration problem.

No, the problem is that they're being imported at all. They should come on their own accord if ever. That's the only way they'll integrate. And of course if you don't let Muslim communities become a thing - because then integration becomes unnecessary - at which Germany failed/didn't care about.

Yes. Don't listen to the anarkids.

If you ban immigration from certain countries, Muslim immigration will be almost eliminated.

Fine.

Fine.

what people don't understand is that while there are legit refugees fleeing war there are also a fuckload of illegal immigrants from non war zones.

most of them are actually criminal on the run escaping their countries justice system.
don't act surprised when criminals act like criminals.

luckily the chances of merkel getting another term are very low

This is actually elementary but it needs to be repeated for more people to hear

tbh

while I do not agree with her politics, she seems popular lately.

ISIS actually freed prisoners just for this purpose, to run amok and create more chaos (away from them of course)

ultimately thats not up to you to decide.
there are many people out there with some moral code and enough neurons not to take such a ridiculous shortcut

btw there are Visa in most 3rd world countries.
3rd worlders can't just take a plane and go wherever they want.

Actuals war refugees are afraid to die, don't care about free welfare and just want to get back to rebuild.

All of them are in the refugees camps around the shooting place.
None of them travel thousands of kilometres to "get a better life" leaving women and kids behind.

If you have a good reasoning behind being anti-immigration unlike lel fucking muslims ruined everything muh viking heritage then yes.

we just had the first syrian refugees arrive in our town last week. don't have a problem with it as i know full well there's been a war going on and they're not just making shit up.

the most shoking thing is that while most illegal immigrants don't get their permit to stay. 90% of them aren't deported.

i'm not sure the reason why. maybe its just too expensive.

the result isn't good.
you'll end up with many people with no skills, who can't get a job because they're illegal and who are mostly criminals.

what do you think they'll end up doing to survive ?.

i blame the European union, it completely fucked up borders control and immigration management.

portugal

Because it have been carefully selected. This is the immigration process pushed by the far right. Do they gave you a reason to house him so far from his homeland? I bet they just told you he is going to live here and there is nothing you can do.

Now, just imagine, all the people who want your standard of living actually come and you have the duty to take care of all of them.

gonna call bullshit on that
i can make the same claim by saying
my friend from turkey said that most ACTUAL syrians that escaped syria are in turkey

It's not deportation when you go home.

Wrong. Most of them are in Lebanon but it's true Turkey get a fair share.

call bullshit on what? that there's a war going on or that some families arrived in my town last week?
or do you think everywhere has the same vetting procedures as germany?

So massive beta cucks apologize for either?

I'd argue that simple self preservation is a good enough reason when dealing with a faction whose stated goal is to kill or convert you inb4 b-but n-not all m-muslims!, and as religion and true leftism are incompatible, it's the machete for you.

It's common sense selection. Germany intentionally threw out any and all vetting procedures, they weren't just too moderate about it. It was pure insanity that even liberals didn't expect.

yeah no.
the nearby countries are already saturated.
Lebanon has already 40% of its population made of Syrian refugees, 40 !
Turkey has 2 millions.

contrary to what Holla Forumsype meme says.

this. Fuck the EU with a broom.

i think a big part of the problem is that they burn their papers.
hard to deport someone when you don't know where he came from.

You blame the EU when every other country in the EU manages just fine? What happened in Germany was 'entirely' merkel's fault

Do you really think immigration policies will stop international terrorists from killing you?

How is this any different from liberal arguments for gun control?

There is a lot of empty space here.
Money is not an issue since the EU feed them with billions to keep the camps attractive.
What stop them from taking care of all of them?

According to Mekel, what happenn in Germany happen because other countries refused to take their "fair share" of the millions of illegals.

Also Sweden.

Austerity fetishizing neoliberal is dishonest? How unlikely.

Immigration policies will certainly stop them from raping and murdering my countrymen at the local level which has been a far deadlier campaign of terrorism than the actions ISIS has personally taken responsibility for, and if there aren't any Arabs, it would be awfully difficult for them to blend in and stage terrorist attacks.

i'd argue that while islam is as cancerous as Nazism, you can't tell who's holding those beliefs from their face

DNA analysis cost $400 and will tell you more than what the guy could if he wanted.

Especially Sweden. They literally, intentionally selected for lumpen immigrants to put them on welfare so they'll buy products and further expand the succdem economy.

I live in a US state with Somali immigrants and I was shocked to hear how bad things got in Sweden. The ones here are pretty good people.

not talking about last year's wave.
Merkel fucked up pretty hard, but Europe in generals are still dealing with illegals.
just recently a huge camp in France has been dismantled.

You are pathetic.

hello Holla Forums.
why bother with islam when you just hate poc ?

I was reading a Youtube comment with someone wishing the Nazis had won so he "wouldn't have to suffer under liberalism"
Now that is pathetic.

The NSDAP is long gone, and Islam still active today with a significantly higher kill count. Which of these ideologies :^) do you see being a deadlier threat to you personally today? Are you more likely to be stabbed to death by a NEETsoc, or a Muslim? Please answer truthfully.
You kind of can.

Socdems, everyone.

Invoking le epin Holla Forums bogeyman is not an argument. Would you like to try again?

ridiculous,DNA won't give you a country, at best it will give you a region. that can be as large as Europe.

nothing to do with the eu. entirely down to what merkel said.

DNA will locate the land of each of your ancestors with a few hundred kilometres margin of error.

What? You think Samis, Albanians, Danes, Ukrainians and Spanish are undistinguishable?

this actually made me think

we're talking about islam not arab you moron.
you can't even hide your stupidity for more than couple of posts.

no one is interested in your racial garbage, it has been discussed over and over.

give valid arguments and stay on topic or fuck back to your hug box

And they couldn't give the money to Swedes instead because?

Still waiting for your refutation, friend.

I can't find the word Arab in his post.

They are owed nothing by the people of Europe, they already have aid up the asshole. It goes 5 times further in shitkinistan than Berlin that's for sure.

lets see

toght question

Sure it is. How would Muslim neighbors benefit me at all? At worst I get some nutcase who wants to kill me for the glory of Allah. I don't care about them enough to risk this, so why should everyone else? Leftism isn't about feeling bad for the poor third-worlders.

see

The slippery slope start when we use words.

Fair enough.

Now tell me how dangerous the Chechen minority living in western Europe/US is?

You should oppose all immigration, as it's the capitalists tool to undermine and divide the working class

/thread

user, i'm sure you're used to deal with brain dead morons who can't spot a fallacy back in your hug box, but it doesn't work here.

your post is still up there, and everyone can read your motives.

like i'v said, why hide behind the false excuse of islam when you just hate poc ?
is it because you can't find any rational argument to defend your position ?

We're reaching not an argument levels that shouldn't even be possible.

The post I was responding to (almost certainly you with your flag removed) implied that immigration policies are pointless as they won't stop terrorism, which I soundly disproved as the European rape and murder campaign absolutely is terrorism and would be stopped if we deported them and stopped accepting new migrants.

Not him but wanting to live far from this kind of people is just natural.
Unless you are into survivalism of course.

Yes. Nothing wrong with not wanting virulently ethno-nationalist theocrats migrating to your secular society

sounds like the average Holla Forumsack

too late Holla Forumsype, you dun fucked up, you got busted

Go look at the studies on what most muslims believe. Go look at how they view homosexuals and jews and women and traps and atheists. Don't be a regressive cunt

There is like a thousand Holla Forumsacks.
Tens of millions of Muslims are already in and much more are on their way.

too bad its false tho.

muslims don't care about your ethnicity as long as you're a muslim.

and they outbreed secular euros by a 2:1 ratio

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this thread is proof why islam will conquer the world

yeah sure

Actually it's because you throw your purse and squeal anytime some 'Fascist' say's these people have no business in their country.

Secular Euros does not equate to Holla Forums

I will gladly line up Jackbooted faggots against concrete walls and send them to Valhalla

Muslims are theocrats they hae no place in secular/free society

so is it a Holla Forumsype raid or are you just a really dedicated prick ?

Still outbreading.

It's our country now

How answering yes change OPs question?
No matter the cause the problem isn't going away.

*Would

alright, you made me kek

literally OBSESSED

You don't want more secular people than non-secular people?

The joke

me

Religion, when practiced by the correct group of oppressed third worlders, is called ANTI-IMPERIALISM and it is good. You idiot.

i don't.
in fact i hate relligion and islam in particular.

however i don't want idpol to use it as a trojan horse.
they usually hide their motives pretty poorly and end up attacking poc out of the blue.

Turkey's one of the powers who have been actively prolonging, intervening in the Syrian war, you idiot. They only take in refugees so they can use it as a stick to threaten Europe overtime they think about not-including Turkey in NATO/EU because it is a failed dictatorship.

Wait so you are debating on your own personal bias of who you assume is making the argument rather than what he actually said?
I want a more secular world.

Islam is inherently communal, the only reason why communism is the dominant govt us because of COINTEL pigs

Society is more secular than ever, and it's falling apart because of it.

Hahahahah. Thanks for the sensible chuckle.

who said they were good guys you moron ?

So I should convert to Islam?

logic is bias now ?

Being anti religion and racist isn't the same thing. He could just dislike Islam.

not neccessarily, do what you want tbh
but you should be less militant in your opposition to people of faith
or just less militant in general (unless you're in a war zone obvs)

I was being serious. You said secularism was bad?

being anti "arab" is racism.
btw there is a difference between attacking a relligion and attacking religious people.

But he explicitly said secular which means non-religious. The countries he showed in the chart were all religious. Are migrants more secular than the average person?

I believe so. Religion has tied communities together since forever, and we've thrown it away over the last 50 years not really knowing why except "bro it's the current year lmao". And I don't see people acting better because of it.
Instead I see barely suppressed hatred masquerading as superiority and hyperrationality.
The best, most genuine people I know are religious (muslim, catholic, buddhist) and they are totally consistent with how they conduct themselves, they don't just drop their moral compass when it becomes too difficult for them.

If your argument is that religion is a tool for social cohesion then shouldn't I convert to Christianity and want all Muslims out because they cause social conflict?

how come nearly every leftist group, the further you go back from 1990 were the most anti-immigration to protect the interests of native workers/workers who already immigrated?

Yeah if you want, do what you like m8.

Why are you on a political board if you don't want to engage with the arguments being made? The history of multiple religions living side by side isn't good.

Is a political board the place we pretend joining a religion is like picking a football team to support so we can oppose the other team? Ignorant child.

anti-muslim, no, that is not okay.
anti-immigrant, yes. that is fine.

No, you should be anti-immigration. Not anti-immigrant.

I can't even think of an economically leftist movement that is pro-immigration in the modern sense of the word.
Were there even any historically?

And no, Idpols who've never had any kind of economic influence do not qualify as economic movements.

It says nothing about immigration. No one needs to colonize Africa to support Africa's workers.

You should oppose Islam but do not discriminate on ethnicity. So long as you're a leftist and an atheist, it's all good.

got coopted by the proto-spookposters

source on that graph?

Yes. It mean's your not bloody insane :p
Hell, you can't begin to hope to sustain any kind of welfare state if anyone who hops in can sign up.

Nothing, in theory. But the imperialist powers destroying Syria couldn't give a shit about human losses beyond the bare minimum needed to keep their own countries isolated.

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You have to go back

You must go back.

NO BULLY SOCDEMS KEYNES DID NOTHING WRONG

t. petty bourgeois LARPers

you can fight for a strong welfare state and full communism at the same time

I didn't say I was against the existence of welfare (well the other fag did so you're half right), but rather implied that it's not the goal of any real leftist: communism is. I was also objecting to the notion that we should engage in fascist mother-fuckery in order to prop up said welfare state, since that would lead us away from communism, not towards it.