When where you when we sent Renzi home?

I hope there will be elections, I actually don't know jackshit about my country

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It was written by people that were slaying fascists in the mountains until the week before. Technically not only Socialists but also Catholics and Classical Liberals.

this country will never change.
at this point I gotta hope in marine le pen in france. what have i become?

Can someone give me the rundown on what this vote it and what its results mean for leftists

I see Le Pen has welcomed it

Someone who believes in the reform of capitalist states

Renzi wanted to change the constitution to give himself more power so he could get through reforms, bankers and EU wanted this because they like Renzi.

Italian banks are now fucked which could fuck the german banks, there will be an election which the right might win

uh, all parties had to reconstitute themselves, it was a shift from 1st republic to 2nd republic because of corruption of sorts.

The "Yes" would basically make the government stronger and would make it easier to follow what the EU asks us to do.

the constitution was written to stop another Mussolini from coming into power.
After the War the fascists and communists were both shut out from government. Except Italy had no problem partnering up with the CIA and the Mafia to keep even moderate socialists out of government.

The referendum on the constitution was designed to give more power to center-left PM Matteo Renzi and to reduce the power of the senate if "YES" won. Additionally, many saw the referendum as a chance to reject establishment politics and to oust Renzi, as Renzi said he would resign if "NO" won.

Many are also thinking that the "NO" result could lead to the libertarian socialist Five Star Movement taking power in the next elections, thus the reason some of us on Holla Forums are celebrating.

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Are MSI actually leftist in anyway?

They are politically non-binary :^) but have some pretty good policies, environmentalism, direct democracy, anti-globalization coupled with soft-nationalism and soft anticapitalism.

it's M5S btw :D, MSI is an old post-fascist party that died in the nineties.

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Il Popolo vince!

How would you define the Five Star Movement? Just because they aren't waving around hammers and sickles doesn't mean they aren't LibSocs.

I always saw them as being aligned with the far left. The whole direct democracy thing reminds me a lot of anarchism and council communism.

that emblem could easily be a socialist one

Avanti o popolo, alla riscossa,
Bandiera rossa, Bandiera rossa.
Avanti o popolo, alla riscossa,
Bandiera rossa trionferà.

Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Bandiera rossa la trionferà
Evviva il comunismo e la libertà!

Honestly pro populist forces working to reform the government in isolationist ways scare me more than if they just got to the point and understood Capitalism was at fault.

We all know Capitalism is going to collapse, and going about by ripping at its current resources won't promise those potential resources in the future for whatever comes after.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I think it does more harm than good to try and reform nationalistic ideals into states than to just get to the point. By not getting to the point, you aren't helping anti-capitalism.

Italy was a liability for the winning side in the first and an outright loser in the second. Good work with the referendum though.

they're nutters tho haha, have you read their proposal about "citizenship income" basically 780 EUR p/m to people with no job and not studying without any further requirement besides compulsory interviews in job public centers? and that also serves as minimum wage so if you earn less than 780 the state compensates. It might seems good but would ruin the economy and induce many people to do nothing, especially in the south where you can get by with 780e per month…

Uh, user, you do realize this is a communist oriented board…?

are you basing that on actual analysis on material circumstances or are you just saying that because you feel it's true

just kidding I already know it's the latter, because it's always the latter

oh…i thought it was just a bit lefty, me likes lefty, but not..nonsense…

it's not easy to do analysis on something that doesn't, to this extent, anywhere. and before you bring in sweden or denmark, i just wanna say that there 780e is much less than here. come on, you can't really think it's rational?!?

How can one country be so based?

Sulla montagna dei martiri nostri
tanto giurando su Gramsci e Matteotti
sull'operaio caduto in cantiere
su tutti i compagni in carcere sepolti
Come un vecchio discende il fascismo
succhia la vita ad ogni gioventú
ma non sentite il grido sulla barricata
la classe operaia continua la sua lotta!

Italian left

German left, Austrian left, Portuguese Left

Scandinavia, France, Spain

Ireland

Britain

youtube.com/watch?v=hAXoGxLx6yk

All of my keks

Lol, don't be fooled, M5S is a meme party, basically. They endlessly flirt with national populism and they take literally anyone on board. Actual antivaxers and even chemtrailers got a decent amount of traction thanks to them.

watch "c'eravamo tanto amati". It's a film on the constitution and it's aftermath. Good mix of entertainment/information too if the period is new to you.

So the kind of UBI that neoliberals came up with decades ago: negative income tax
youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM
Solves poverty instead of inequality, makes the state subsidize employers instead of enforcing better pay and working conditions, and keeps people consuming and investing instead of resisting the system.
I want M5S to come to power, and fortunately 780€ is too high to implement this shit.

Socialists are now taking to the streets en masse now:

twitter.com/ExOpgJesopazzo/status/805550240313053185

Socialists are now taking to the streets en masse:

twitter.com/ExOpgJesopazzo/status/805550240313053185

based italian comrades
they should demand a snap election asap

Rude

But sadly true

Which party is that?

the Butthurt Belt

Oh yeah a lot of them are hardline reactionaries, especially socially.

although I think they associate socialism with Russian domination more than anything else.

Finland, Czech Republic and Estonia are ok though

…and gift the country to the nationonal populists. Comrade, your heart is in the right place but the left simply doesn't have the numbers to govern right now.

no, friedman even explains it in the video. His measure would not be the same as compensating to reach a certain BI. That's what he consider even worse then the NIT cause it destroys the incentive of people to work. (like the NIT in part, but more) And that's kinda my point, why would i work 40hrs/w at let's say even 1200€ per month while i can just play around, do some interviews, sneak around the system, do NOTHING and get 780€? it's crazy, and while I agree on a measure like this, it should be kept around no more than 300€, otherwise destroys the incentive of most lower educated people

These guys ( ) Fucked up, what the M5S is proposing is not UBI but regular welfare.
UBI would be a fixed ammount of money for every citizen regardless of income, similar but not equal to Friedman's proposal.

What now? youtube.com/watch?v=Cy5HBePRywc
Also why the hell is PD so strong anyway?

UBI doesn't work guys, its just reformism not socialism and when left reformism fails(and it will fail) it leads the workers to the right.
thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2016/10/23/basic-income-too-basic-not-radical-enough/

youtube.com/watch?v=uhg0SUYOXjw
It has English CC by the way.

Are you one of those based guys who are so radical they called Daesh anti-imperialist? If so, I can only say godspeed comrades

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Please no not this bullshit.
This doesn't free you from markets and profit, it's comparable to handing over capitalist management to the state. If you have the power to do that you have the power to actually implement socialism, or at least try. It's like the worst of the NEP or Krusthnev-era USSR, but without any reason over than "it seems easier to implement". It's not, it requires a debt-free state on the long run and tons of shit like that, and it doesn't include any actual power from the worker on the economic system as a whole, only on how he manages his individual company. It's like Wolff "cooperative" shit, it's meaningless. It's like asking for workers to exploit themselves to be profitable on the market ; to actually handle themselves their exploitation. Friot is an old stalinist, and by that I mean a revisionnist one. His dream is actual state capitalism, like, actual state management of capitalism. If it happens one day you'll see that you're closer from the state disappearing with an actual non-revionnist stalinist than with friot's system, and that says a lot…

Put Ireland and Spain up and Austria down

Remove potato

This. My cousin supports M5S and he's exactly fucking this, it's amazing.

Just to give you an idea of what kind of people support this party - he bought a fucking Husky and kept it chained to a tree for 15 years in Southern fucking Italy. That Husky was euthanized a few weeks ago, thank god.

those bastards

M5S sound like uber accelerationist memelords

I should clarify, actually. He bought a female Husky and a Male husky, and they both escaped and probably died in the streets of Nipples, but that was before the Bitch got pregnant with the Husky that would eventually live for 15 years. To make sure he didn't escape he just chained him to a tree.

hurr

that was after*

Yup, as an Italian you pretty much nailed it. M5S are meme politicians to a level Trump can only dream of being.

It's true they are neither left nor right but only because you can't give a political color to such blatant incompetence.

good shit comrade

Ireland is the most overbearingly centrist nation on earth. There's not an ounce of revolutionary zeal even in the youth, who inherit the "ah now, don't rock the boat" mentality from the parents.

James Connolly bruh, I'm sorry

It's OP not understanding his country's role in either world war.

Like they always defined themselves: populist.

As for the future, look, if they:
- continue absorbing chemtrailers, antivaxxers, and other assorted tinfoilers;
- keep orbiting around intellectual gurus such as Marco Travaglio who, despite being loved by democrat voters for his work on Berlusconi, remains a self-described Garbaldian-Cavourist right-winger and an apologist of the mandatory crucifix - and whatever other classical liberals etc might they attract;
- carry on with the anti-mainstream "left" rhetoric, and maybe end up incorporating Berlusconi's anti-communism;
- win some more elections;
Italy will have its own Republican Party in no time.

this

people just like to fap over muh ra for some reason

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