Why did the vanguard fail each time it was established...

Leninist states, pros and cons:

wew

Advantages of leninism

Advantages of any other far left philosophy
….

Pros:

Cons:

Democratic centralism is a bad way to make decisions.

People like having control over their lives

can't wait to see the next round
too bad proletariat aren't all actually agrarian peasants and rather actually exist now, and have the internet, and will stop you by any means if you ever try this shit again

none of them have achieved even close to communism. Most anarchist projects were closer.

Vanguards like to push the meme that there is no alternative to them, when in reality they are scared shitless that someone might pose a genuine threat to their illegitimate tyranny.

I like the sounds of this "Power for power's sake, no matter how antithetical to every goal, except in the most abstract, convoluted sense."

Advantages of leninism

'jail' is a nice way to put 'gulag' or 'mass grave'

How do you prevent corruption and counterrevolution? Politely the bourgeoisie to leave you alone?
You think once you've taken their power away from them and threatened their very existence, they're just going to roll over and accept it?

how about just not creating a situating that invites immediate takeover by an ultra-paranoid security apparatus running a feudal slave state with total control over everything on behalf of a psychopath?

Gee that's a good idea, but it still doesn't answer the question.

i guess we're just too brainwashed by the bourgeoisie to see what you really are when you just can't stop shitposting about it. i'll gladly side with "reactionary forces" to body bag you, which is the only answer you seem capable of understanding.

ML's tacitly admitting it's all just a power-play for their own self-interests.

I mean, it was obvious, but admitting it wew lad

It's like you have no idea what revolution is. Sorry m80 but the ruling class isn't going to let you walk all over them and then join hands with you and sing kumbaya when it's over. Even the CNT-FAI who were supposed to be anarchists admitted that you need organized violence and repression to win a war and keep the revolution from immediately collapsing. Have fun being completely unproductive because you can't bring yourself to accept reality.

Are all the tankies on here just bait monsters or are any of them actually real human beings?

I honestly haven't seen a single one on this board that wasn't just attempting to be provocative and doing it badly.

I hate tankies, but I'd never fucking side with reactionaries

I don`t see any other formats of socialism/communism changing history.

By changing history you mean having everyone have a serious knee-jerk reaction towards communism, sure.

Yeah man, it`s not like communism as ideology was popularized politically around idea of VIOLENT overthrow of capitalism. It is most certainly not that people in democratic societies tend to dislike radicals whom accept idea of killing as part of achieving your political goals.

It's like I literally never said any of that.

I did not claim that you said anything along those lines either.

Point is that masses here in the west whom live in relatively conformable conditions would dislike idea of communist revolution just on principle of being against mass violence.

Syndicalism has accomplished more worldwide than anything the soviets did to soviet workers, faggot

Yeah, but we were never discussing that.

Maybe Marxism is just a failed ideology adopted by secular Utopians?

This, dont forget $$$human nature$$$ workers!!

S-solidarity guys!

What I`m trying to point out is that it would be irrelevant even if our political history did not have those previous attempts, people would still have knee-jerk reaction towards communism.

Perhaps, but that was never the central argument of the thread. Most people don't know about Yugoslavia, or Catalonia in the first place.

You think so? A lot of anti-communist rhetoric sounds like relics from the cold war imo, at least in the US.

Because Vanguardism is a stupid concept that goes against the idea of egalitarianism.

You have literally a CASTE of detached politicians, who only do politics and nothing else.

You have literally a CASTE of detached footballers, who only do football and nothing else.

You have literally a CASTE of detached doctors, who only do medicine and nothing else.

I just don't think it accurately describes the modern environment, and is mostly prolonged by idiots hamfistedly trying to fit the modern environment to meet Marx's 19th century observations and predictions because they're too intellectual lazy to make revisions

they don't hold social power and dictate the economy, and all social transactions

continual 100% overbearing repression for 70 years, then bourgeoisie magically reappeared again? lol also "you" were the threat to CNT. i dont know why i keep implying youre not just larping faggots on a CIA honeypot, however if there was the faintest whiff you ever really existed any more, i'd spend my entire life telling my fellow workers why we need to gut you in the streets. you're a pure reptile, more fascist than fascists. you're a hostile, alien threat to the working class, you're literally a bourgeois sperglord at best. class collaboration why?

too bad actual workers are coming to the same conclusions as

not that you'd know since no one works in your mother's basement

...

hm

lmao what actual workers? i think they are looking the other way tbqh famalam

it always reverts to capitalism ~somehow~…

there's a difference between stopping a small group of autist tyrants before they install a nightmare, and those same freaks frantically murdering everyone via a jackbooted security state

the amazing disconnect you have with working people is evident in that you think we're a bunch of illiterate farm hands still who can be molded into your dialectical caste, who can't use google and see exactly what goes on in your weird little heads like in this very thread. of course, i wouldn't even need to say a word. we all already know.

It's almost as if you haven't been reading.

we read history, you absolute spaz.

Point to one instance in real life where that's actually happened

This is mostly right, and #2 and #3 are tied together. While capitalism remains the rule in the culturally and economically dominant countries, other countries can attempt Socialism but will be besieged, both in a material and ideological aspect.

...

I don't think the working class is illiterate farm hands, my whole family is pretty broke.

That being said you're probably an illiterate farm hand

By creating a system nobody wants to revolt against. You will notice none of the anarchist projects ever collapsed due to counter revolution

or corruption

you don't have any arguments, you are literally an elitist. you've simply made it clear that you are the enemy.

you just think you're some kind of menacing presense when we know what you look like, you're just a warped little reject larping as a mass murderer online and it's only interesting in that it's a window into yet another subgenre of internet-addled weirdo.

maybe you can prescribe them Zoloft, doc?

I agree with you but come on man, you're on a fucking chan spouting about internet addled weirdoes. That is the fucking modern condition. We are ruined. Thats how we are. Don't act like you're any different. Don't get all high and mighty, don't be… an elitist

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I'm in a university. Do you think being in a university and being a physician are the same thing.

Sure, but that still doesn't protect you from instigation from the outside. The CIA leading coups for example.

no fuck tankies. But we should think of the internet addled weirdoes

coup over what? One single co-op?

do you ever get tired of getting absolutely btfo?

When was the last time that happened

People have been talking about dragging people to my dungeon now fam

Oh no, here comes the unrelenting tide of projection

You're fucking sick, I'm so tired of this shit. People here parade around wearing the clothes of altruism and solidarity, only to revert to the most primal and disgusting behavior the capitalist society is making itself guilty of everyday.

You're fascist scum posing as emancipation fighters, an enemy of the people trying to administrate a remedy which effects are far worse than the disease it ought to cure. Well fucking done, kys.

This.

if i were a nazi playing 5d chess against the left I'd larp as a tankie. It's not like it's hard to memorize the script.

excruciatingly boring pharma rep appears to be exactly as she says she is *shudder*

*shudder*

Haha every anarchist ever recognized the necessity of repression during the revolution. Do you think that's a peaceful thing ? Do you really prefer it happening in a disorganized way with no trials and nothing of the sort ?
You are just yet another idealit. Keep dreaming of a perfect world you cannot achieve, please.

how much will you rob your patients of by the way after slanging them capitalism's finest literally brain-eating dope? i'm sure you're laboring under the impression psychiatrists charge a pitance, seeing as you don't care to know anything else about your noble choice in subject. what little there is to know, being as it's 95% industry pamphlets/PR written "at a 3rd grade reading level". face facts, no amount of ideology you cloak yourself with will ever make you become a decent person, until you can learn the most basic capacity for self-reflection, which shines through on even the most anonymous medium possible.

I'm not giving anyone morphine

Also why do you care about my major so much. Worry about the pharmaceutical CEOs, not people working in fucking inpatient clinics with actual disabled people

Calm the fuck down.

Its called structure building you trigger happy fuck

you're disgusting.

morphine would be humane compared to what you feel is fine to pump people with, again, while knowing nothing about about the wikipedia entry that is psychiatric medicine, which is laughable, considering you appear to fancy yourself an intellect.

you've also personalized everything which is extra hilarious considering where we are.

i'm attacking psychiatry, not you, how could i be attacking you. you latched onto a chan and still found a way to be personally overinvested in it.

It's called not happening in the economic North, needing violence to work in the economic South. What you are doing is actually benefitting to capitalists on the long run, it is management of poverty you are allowing. The working class has every right and legitimacy to take over the factories and companies it works in, or to destroy them. Simply withdrawing because you are not strong enough and creating "alternative communities" is admitting you aren't strong enough, and doing exactly what the capitalists want you to do ; fuck off and fail eating shit. I know very well what anarchists and leftcoms do, I know many of them doing that. "Structure building" isn't what I would call it ; this is called lying to yourself about the state of your movement. Do you think this word, revolution, would seem so old fashionned to you if a large part of the people actually supported your ideas ? Do you think if those alternative communities you think you are building (but are probably not, as I've noticed from experience) were strong enough to be an actual alternative for most of the population, they wouldn't become a problem for the economy and face a violent repression ? What do you do then, without any military organisation ?
You are all fucking dreaming. Marxism-leninism failed quite a lot but this new brand of communalism and insurrectionnalism is absolutely disgusting. I respect more people fighting for the rights and quality of life of the poor than you people simply withdrawing from any confrontation within the current society because it implies power hierarchies.

you're fine with ""vanguardists"" crushing all your enemies with an iron fist in your little dreamworld where in you'll be skipping along a road paved with the skulls of millions, but seem to feel you're above moral culpability yourself. i'm sick of this shit from feminists as well. equality means responsibility. get that through your brain before you start running rampant over other people's with highly potent neurotoxins your "discipline" has basically no understanding of, when maybe they just needed counselling and/or were socially disadvantaged. you think you're actually going to be doing them a favor, and see no issue in extracting gratuitous sums of money they don't have for it, or ticking a box on their insurance form, branding them forever.

you're a western, first world opportunist, on cruise control while you embark on a putrid "Career" for one of the most despicable industries under capital's roof, smirking contemptuously at the suggestion you should examine your own life. wake up.

Did a child psychiatrist rape you or some shit

I'm actually an anarchist and not an mlm so nah

hahaha wow once again absolutely no one gives a solitary hoot about your life story, you soulless wench.

Ok