Let's talk about reproduction cartridges. I was doing some research, and it seems like a pretty fun thing to experiment with, you have the benefits of running the game on original hardware, and you save a ton of money instead of buying some games that sell for like $400 a piece. Plus, you get all the benefits of playing on the original hardware.
Do you think there's any ethical issues with selling repro carts? Ones that are clearly labeled as such?
Other urls found in this thread:
aliexpress.com
muramasaentertainment.com
ebay.co.uk
volafile.io
twitter.com
Let's talk about one of the drawbacks: it's copyright infringement so it's illegal.
>>>/cuckchan/
Yeah, but there are plenty of people that do this online, no one stops 'em and it doesn't seem like anyone cares about it.
I bet you think Miranda Rights is dumb too
Now I'm imagining user being pulled over, arrested and while being read his rights he interrupts the cop and tells him "do I look like some kind of cuck? Fuck off back to 4chan, faggot."
The cop, saddened, leaves and lets user go on his way.
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Might as well be saying "Do you think there's any ethical issues with selling pirated games? Ones that are clearly labeled as such?"
I guess the reason though why companies don't really care about Repo carts is because the companies don't stand to make money from them; the games, in their original printing made their money and don't stand to make a lot more, especially since market trends have shifted greatly since then. The fact that the market for these things is a very small niche could also be a factor.
Yes, I understand that well. Essentially the only reasonable way most people can play these is by using flash carts, repros, or emulators.
I would think small, local stores would be interested in selling otherwise high demand games with a lot of prestige behind them for cheap. Say, Chrono Trigger for like, $30 or $40 instead of $80, $110.
I'm surprised I haven't heard anything about the Chinese mass producing "blank" PCBs for reproductions.
there are some, here's some NES ones.
muramasaentertainment.com
very cheap all things considered, must be fucking nothing to print them. SNES is a bit sloppy because the super FX chips and other on-board expansions.
My big problem with repro carts is as follows: Why not just get a Flashcart instead and have all the games? Sometimes is costs a bit more (though not in the case of a good GBA flashcart unless you want to go all out and get a Everdrive) but then you have every game available at your finger tips. We live in an age where you can easily fit the entire library of these old systems on to one SD Card. And even if you're going all out and end up dropping a couple of bills on an Everdrive you're still paying less than you would for some of the rarer games on the system. Fuck if I'm paying for Little Sampson, but I'm sure glad I get to play it.
Actually it depends. If you use proprietary (licensed) chips or rip schematics then sure. Another angle to consider is whether or not the interface between the device your cartridge reproduction is patented. Considering that all the cartridge interfaces on old consoles are merely simple memory busses I would lean towards a firm but irresolute no. I say this because the removable cartridge/hot-swappable bus concept predates even the old Atari systems and that approximations of this design have been implemented across competing consoles and down through the decades.
If you designed your own board, sourced memory modules from a distributor (like Mouser), and implemented your own wrapper ASIC I would argue that to be legal. Nintendo doesn't own your NES, you do. This means that they can't dictate what you plug into it or stop people from developing devices that do plug into it.
In the same way a company is free to implement DRM mechanisms but can't stop you from circumventing said mechanisms. Or stop you from building a software emulator that merely mimics a machine's operation but is otherwise developed independent of said machine's design (hence why PCSX2 doesn't ship with a BIOS, because that IS copyrighted). No single company can claim general ownership of the concept of an electronic circuit or a computer, only specific arrangements/implementations of them.
How dare you reply to my shitpost with an informed, well-researched post
flash carts are great. I personally prefer them for these kinds of things, that or back up solutions like HDD loading (Xbox, PS2, Wii/GC, WiiU, etc.) I don't really need a wall of cartridges to choose from. I do think it is really, really cool to have shelves upon shelves down walls in dedicated rooms and collections to pick from.
That right there appeals to a lot of people. Some folks have walls of films, books, some people have vinyl or CD, and some have video games.
There's a bit of novelty that I can clearly see the value in when it comes to owning these things in an individual and neat package.
in a re-seller market, what do you think of this? EEPROM chips de-soldered from the cartridge, new ones flashed with data for another game and repackaged?
Let's see: Miranda Rights exist because a spic rapist told the cops about a crime he committed while in custody because he didn't know he had the option not to. Because of Miranda Rights, in cases where cops fail to read them out, any evidence from the criminal's own testimony is discarded because muh due process.
Yes, they're fucking retarded and they only exist so as to protect retarded shitbags (Mexicans).
In my opinion reproduction carts and flash carts are more morally right than the prices people charge for original carts nowadays. $100 for Super Metroid, well hold the fucking phone, you can buy that game on Virtual Console for $10 on both Wii and Wii-U.
So I think that reproduction carts are a good thing, because they eliminate artificial scarcity (partly caused by collectors who buy up dozens of copies of the same "rare" games so that their "rare" games are even "rarer"). I think removing that artificial stranglehold on the game market for classic games is a good thing, and I would definitely say "Yes, I think this is a good thing" only cancerous "collector" faggots who buy Nintendo games with the implicit idea that they're "investing" in what they perceive will one day be a fortune would object to having more games out there for more people to buy at a cheaper cost.
Don't buy carts online. Go to a locally owned Flea Market or Game Store. Usually much cheaper, and the grandpas selling their son's old N64's at the flea market aren't often aware of the Jewey prices that gaming communities put on retro consoles.
Fuck that, I'm not buying old games at all. I made my own emulation box for this very reason. I'm not posting to be ironic and be like "do what I don't do," I'm just posting saying I think that repro carts are a good thing, because when I drive my friends to a place to buy classic games (since they don't have cars) I look at those prices they pay happily and I can't help but shake my head and tell him what a fool he is to pay such a price.
And just an FYI, all the local flea markets and antique stores have been picked clean years ago. And the only "game store" selling that shit sells it for the same prices as you see online, because he thinks he's deserving of $100 for a game he probably paid the owner $15 for.
yard sales, flea markets, etc. They're great. Pickings have gotten slimmer and slimmer, but it's still absolutely worth keeping an eye out.
Also all the pawn shops in the area are using those inflated prices too. Basically the used games market is the biggest fucking scam, capitalizing on your nostalgia.
This pretty much isn't true anymore due to scalpers. Even if you get some idiot who hasn't seen one of the "THIS GUY SOLD HIS OLD GAMES HE FORGOT ABOUT FOR MILLIONS!!!" articles then you still have to get to them before the resellers, and good luck with that. Hope you wake up at the crack of dawn, you'll need it.
it's still out there. Just gotta look for it, there has been an increase of people who look up the prices of these things, but you can still get lucky. Plus, it's a ton of fun going to yard sales and shit anyway. Hell, I know people who have found some CRT monitors that sell for like $250 at flea markets and yard sales for like $10.
As for re-selling a cartridge that has been re-flashed/had it's prom replaced I'm not honestly sure. Would that count as a re-sale of the original game or an illicit reproduction that breaks copyright law? At this point it's a Ship of Theseus debate and I'm not aware of any legal precedent for this type of action. Honestly it's really a gray area but I practically speaking I doubt Atari, Sega, or Nintendo are going to come after you for operating in what is essentially a niche hobbyist market.
Now dumping a ROM on the internet is obviously illegal as well as the act of downloading said ROM. The company still owns the software. That being said, anything older than a decade is likely abandon ware and you probably won't get burned for reflashing a ROM onto a reproduction cart. The worst that will happen is you'll get a letter in the mail from your ISP if the IP owner complains because they see you in a tracker list – and this won't happen if you direct download from a ROM website. They'll just DMCA said website instead.
You just have to balance your moral compunction (or lack thereof) with the issue of legality.
You know what's fucked up about all this? In Japan, you can get a copy of Super Metroid for 750 Yen (roughly $8) .. no word of a fucking lie. Even with cocksuckers who show up to buy up the copies, sell them online and ship them overseas like the absolute leeches they are, Japan still refuses to play that kind of game where they artificially inflate the value of things.
You have to remove the stick from your asshole and stop trolling.
Fair enough! I was mostly curious on what you thought of it. I don't think there will be any legal pursuit considering you can go to etsy, ebay, or even repro producers own websites and order games right from them.
Glorious Nippon.
I still kinda laugh at Nintendo prices compared to the games that most interest me. I have had a copy of earthbound I got from a friend since I was 14, it's on my shelf next to me on a bunch of original Xbox demo discs. I think it goes for like 150-250? Something like that. It's pricy, but chrono trigger for $80? And that makes people mad? It's like nigga, there are video game TEA CUPS that are worth like 5 of those.
Do you know what that word means? Or are you 12 and trying to fit in?
I just want a copy of Dragon Force.
Are you trying to tell me that because of limited edition merchandise, that you think that warrants $80 resell for Chrono Trigger, a game that isn't rare?
There are people who have spent 5000$ on a single nes cart. Yeah, reproduction carts are awesome, and so are flash carts. I encourage selling them. Fuck faggots "collectors", they are psychopaths and should be shoved in an oven along side AAA kike corporations.
Beware of Mimics fellow anons, they are everywhere.
If you got a burner e-mail and want me to send you a pseudo saturn cart and a burned copy of DF1+2 feel free. If you trust an user on the internet with that info that is.
no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that while the prices for some of those games are indeed shitty, it gets far, far worse the deeper you go.
Do you get the benefits of playing on the original hardware, though?
if the cart is correctly produced (ie, ones with battery backup saves have that battery backup, ones which have hardware expansions have those on cart) then, yes. It's just the raw game data on a rom chip sending it through exactly as it was if it was the original cartridge.
It is 100% the same experience.
Ah yeah, I guess. But getting people pissed off is always the way that you get the ball rolling, so if people get pissed off at the artificial scarcity prices, that's a good thing, because it's the preemptive for some kind of counterattack, like a surge of reproduction cartridges. I'm sure that some collector reseller fag will be like "Y-YOU CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A REAL CART AND A REPRO CART WHEN YOU PLAY IT" and it's like no you fucking can't. The moment you start cutting off these peoples' easy meal ticket, the moment that things will start to get better. You have to be a real asshole to hold hostage the fond memories someone has for playing a game they loved as a kid, and an even bigger one to go to a nation like Japan, who doesn't believe in that kind of bullshit, and start buying up THEIR GAMES to do the same thing. Like bankrupted dysfunctional moral compass kind of fucked up, taking advantage of both the sweetest people on the planet and unfortunate souls who just want to re-experience that game they gave up as they were growing older because they never thought they'd actually want to replay Skate or Die or fucking Faxanadu or whatever.
What if you just want to make a cart for a hack?
A-okay to me, why wouldn't ya?
you load that hack's data into the ROM chip and install it into the correct cartridge. Should work perfectly.
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oh no, please someone save that copy of mario duck hunt
It still hurts. Oh well, at least now I can play it thanks to my SD2SNES.
Fuck, that pisses me off as much as my own story.
I was so fucking mad. He moved away not long later, and I haven't talked to him since then, but god damnit, that shit pisses me off, you borrow something and then fuck it up and take no responsibility for you fucking it up.
I kept that game in immaculate condition, don't give me that bullshit.
you don't even know. I was a huge mega man fan as a kid and my mom got me a copy of the misadventures of tron bonne as a gift for my 9th birthday. Liked the game a lot, wasn't perfect but it had a place in my heart. Especially Tron's crotch armor.
Long story short, had it for nearly a decade, goes "missing" between one of my families many moves, conveniently as my brother got into heroin.
Fuck junkies.
Sorry to hear you had cunt friends like that.
If I have kids, they don't get to loan anything to their friends. No allowance either, they can play my games or earn money to buy their own.
Tempting. I don't have a Saturn right now, I've been playing on SSF for the past few months.
report your brother to the police.
Don't give him anything ever again. Let him die while begging outside a methodone clinic.
apparently mednafen has a saturn emu on the come up.
No it's not. When a product is no longer sold for the original hardware, it's void.
It's up to the company if they actually wish to waste their time pursuing legal action with a license that probably hasn't been used in 20 years, an unlikely scenario since they're not losing money in any way, shape or form. In fact, it's actually helping to spread the word so they can either release their jewish remasters or resurrect their IPs in order to make new games.
Next time use tastier bait, this one needed salt.
It's fine anyway, I bought a copy on the PSN for the PS3 for $7.50, so I was pretty happy with that. Mind you, that's not the ONLY copy of FFT I bought that got fucked up by someone… I had to rebuy the game 3 times physically and in the end, all my physical copies got fucked up by people who didn't replace them. Now the only way I can lose my copy off FFT is if some asshat were to destroy my PS3… And then they'd have a freak out on their hands.
I can imagine you're real popular with your family.
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What a scumbag. I mean if you broke something own up to it, it's the absolute least you can do. Just lying to someone's face should be a fucking crime.
Times like this remind me I'm lucky to be an only child. Condolences on your game, and your brother user.
Are you Jehovah's Witness by any chance?
While I personally love the idea of having a fuckhuge collection on display for all to see, practicality wins over vanity. I'm more than happy to have an old PC with BigBox re-purposed as an "Arcade" machine where everyone that cares can see my fuckhuge collection of roms in a pretty fashion as well, and it doesn't take space. I know it's not the same but I'm a humble man. I prefer to have all in one place instead of having to be all bombastic about it.
I've moved out years ago, first of my siblings to live on their own, buy their own car, and not have kids or be addicted to drugs (or both.) Plus I got a sick CRT collection I could never have at home. Even doing a dream job of mine while watching anime and playing the halo 2 campaign with my buddies. My own "revenge" was being the most successful of all my siblings.
it's still a shit show it turned out that way. I'm actually surprised how many games I had as a kid that are now stupid expensive. All of them of course, conveniently disappeared. Except Earthbound…
no, just a mild case pol
wew
Yes, actually.
sounds like a good life. keep the scum at distance. only 5 people i care about itw, 3 will be dead soon.
have you thought about an xbox running coinops for convenience? They're a lot easier to get running and there's tons of bundles for various HDD sizes for a nice A-I-O multi-console/arcade emulator.
(x45)
how much is that in trudough dollarz?
Ah, yeah I have scaled back the time I spend on Holla Forums because I feel like it really does put me into a negative perspective and I react poorly to things that I otherwise wouldn't. Your environment does shape your behaviour to some degree.
Definitely shitty, yeah.
wii beats sexbox, unless it's a control issue
that reminds me
Never relax
you are quite correct. I've settled on lurking pol, shitposting on tv, and mild v shit. Should try to get to vr, but the habit's not there yet.
are you familiar with coinops at all? It's really, really nice. Wii's great, but no reason you can't have both set up.
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Like $325 CAD, I think.
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good story though, that boy will be in a gov't cage soon enough
fucking nice, i love seeing klowns get milked by that shit
He's wasting his time. He keeps listing it for $30,000 (plus $50 shipping; you think maybe you could pay for the shipping out of your $30,000 price tag, fuckface?) and no one is bidding on it. It's not worth $30,000. It's probably not even worth $10,000. If I placed a value on it, it would be worth no more than $50 (the price when it was new). But either way, no one is going to buy it. He's relisted it 10 times.
I'd sell it for about $100, just cuz the grading process is like $30 or something? Make a bit back on that, free shipping. You do have to be a little profit minded, you know?
I suppose, yeah.
that's a sexy little program. Any accuracy differences between the emulators you would use on xbox vs. the wii stuff?
does he get free listings?
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I'd go as far to say the Xbox emulators would run better. I was very dissatisfied when I ran GBA and PS1 emulators on my Wii. Terrible performance. Wii's got better controllers, tho. If you have a spare Xbox around, mod it and try it out, at least as an application. There's a "coinops 8 lite" bundle out there which fits on the stock hard drive.
Yeah, eBay only charges if you manage to sell the item, they take a I think 10% finder's fee?
Well, to be fair, I don't have a daughter. I want a daughter, but I don't have one.
Get rekt concern troll
I was thinking that if you built an arcade stick with a PS360+ pcb, that'd be the ultimeat controller for xbox. Better than anything on wii, even.
i think selling them is unethical, myself, unless you're clearly listing it as a repro cart. even though the collectorfags who drive the prices up to hundreds or thousands of dollars are cockroaches, i hate the idea of buying a copy of whatever game off ebay and finding out it's some homemade only after the seller has my money
that said, if you start making and selling repro carts you better fucking tell us on here, because there are a ton of SNES games I want to own simply to play again but don't want to pay thousands of dollars for them
watch Sweetness and Lightning. Tsumugi a cute.
I agree with this 100% on the point of if it's a repro, and you know it's a repro, you should tell people it's a repro. Selling a knockoff as an authentic original is fraud and you can actually get jail time for it, though, so it's not like it's not already a legal turmoil situation if you sell a reproduction as an authentic.
I just think that reproduction cartridges in and of themselves are a good idea to curb the reseller market.
there IS the X-Arcade tank stick which has a revision that supports the original Xbox perfectly. Fucking amazing stick. Like specifically made for xbox coinops. There's also a few fight sticks I think. Capcom I know made one for street fighter.
Or Barakamon.
I was studying it and I found out it's pretty easy. There's a bit of things you have to keep in mind (such as if a cart needs superfx, top or bottom loading rom's, battery save, supported capacity, etc - and it requires some soldering, but nothing crazy advanced. I think you can teach it to yourself no problem. I'm honestly not too interested in combating the re-seller market, mostly providing opportunities to play cool games. A lot of the games I'd reproduce would be fan translated ones, cool games like magical pop'n or panorama cotton and umihara kawase. Some higher demand ones too, of course, but I don't very much care for super metroid or something.
selling repro's of fan translated games seems evil, though it's really the buyers who are to blame.
That's true of all industry evils.
super metroid isn't actually that hard to find, they made a lot of them over its lifespan. i was talking more about pocky & rocky, E.V.O. etc
Selling a reproduction and telling people it's the original is actual fraud, and if you paid less than $500 for it you can take them to court for it, even if the deal was purely verbal.
that's a fair-to-great price on most systems AFAIK.
There are a lot of arcade stick options by numerous companies, the most prolific being MadCatz, Hori, Qanba and Razer. Pictured are a few other examples of Xbox arcade sticks. This link has a guide on modern arcade sticks for newer systems, but it's outdated by a year so it won't have the latest options.
volafile.io
Collector autism
t. collector autist
just wasted five minutes of my life trying to figure out if that song originally came from Double Dragon or if the developers where related to Technōs Japan.
garfield minus garfield plus eel, meh
I'm not judging anyone. Like any other devious clip-tip'd yid on Holla Forums, I too have a hard drive full of games and anime that I've downloaded/torrented over the years. I was merely analyzing the perceived legality of the aforementioned activities.
But while we're on the topic, why would you care if I was? Are you a hothead?
JUST GET A FLASHCART YOU RETARDED HIPSTER
you want to reproduce with cotton and silk?
How difficult would it be to produce counterfeits that it would be difficult to tell from the real thing?
If it can be pulled off for real cheap then you could ruin the collectors market.
What you would do is dump them off at pawnshops as they they would jew other Jews.
Pretty sure pawn shops and resellers are the people most likely to be able to identify repros. In order to make repros that you can't tell from the real thing you would need to commit copyright infringement and use Nintendo's own branding on your fake carts.
go back to the crt thread you fucking hipster faggot nigger faggot
if someone is willing to sell forgeries to make some dosh, i think they wouldn't be afraid to print out one more label to put on the cartridge
Even some of us have our limits. For example, if a lot of the SNES wasn't a scalper's wet dream, and didn't have such a large fan-translation scene (fuck paying $50 or so for repro carts of patched roms), I might actually have one and a bunch of games for it, the way I do some other systems after it. But I'm content to just have that system's games as downloaded roms.
Garfield Minus Garfield is great.
A fool and their money are easily parted.
How do I even view this page? I need a chink log in?
Alas, we were having such a lovely conversation, but a Ninendrone has shown up.
Any collector with a shred of dignity would never buy repros.
The people who buy repros are idiot 20 something year olds trying to nostalgically relive their past.
And if you don't consider yourself a collector?