How does Holla Forums feel about abortion?

Should be compulsory.

ugly necessity

who the fuck cares

b-but muh white race
m-muh jesus

Ok but in the real world people have casual sex

It should be compulsory if the baby is not of mixed race.

They should not do that then. We are ultimately rational beings, not some primitive tribalistic reactionaries.

spooked virgin detected

Doesn't matter what they 'should' do because they are going to do it. so let's keep abortions legal

I`m a rational human being, not some animal who can`t control it`s base desires. Bread&land not bread&sex, ok?

...

It does matter. We can`t have effective social engineering in socialist society without control over our sexual desires. We simply cannot have sexual freedom in planned economy(and society).

In what world do you live in where we can control everyone's sexual desires and stop casual sex?

Whatever you have to tell yourself, bucko.

In a world where central committee of the party decides whom does marry whom. In a world where counter-revolutionary women are assigned to the glorious duty of comfort women for the revolutionary peoples liberation army.

t. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi

...

I´m not against idea of sex for pleasure, but without order created for the greater good of the collective directing it could only be harmful for the working class.

Love it

Kill Em All 1989
I am trash man
410,757,864,530 Dead Babies

too obvious
trolle lighter

Necessity of organization for sexual relationships is quite clear. So that we can achieve more total planning of society in such orderly fashion that would allow us all to achieve everything according to our needs regardless of our ability. Truly it would be wrong for sexual relationships to be based on free marketplace of relationships, would it not?

lighter

No but you're autistic and should go back to Holla Forums

discord.gg/fHjJ6rC

Can you specifically make society's non-contributors and welfare queens get the lions share of abortion?

Imagine 120 Autism Level physicists having 10 kids instead of a barely literate unemployed thief.

I don't want anyone having kids.

Pic related – they are the ruling class and I want them gulagd.

Problem is, intelligent people understand kids are a chore so they'll never make lots of them.

why would intelligent people want to have kids at all?

I'm against it because it's killing a human being

t. Christian Ancom

Not even a newborn is a human being yet, unless of course you define "human" on genetic (or the spooky "having a soul") basis.

marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/godstate/

theanarchistlibrary.org/library/johann-most-the-god-pestilence

I know that he was a fedora what is this supposed to prove?

read books, maybe?

Abortion is bad, but less bad than bringing an unwanted child into the world. Abortion should be stopped, but it should be stopped by reducing unwanted pregnancies, not by restricting access to abortion.

why?

Why are you so wonderful?

Unpopular opinion but I don't like abortion. However, the mainstream discussion of the right of the baby versus the right of the mother is a dead end game with no outs. Abortions will continue to happen whether legal or not. Increasing people's economic well-being and providing as easy as possible access to birth control will decrease the amount of abortions more than anything else.

I endorse Benatar's pro-death view.

why do you not like abortion?
I get the argument that it causes a lot of stress to the mother, but thats an easy fix: just dont be spooked as fuck

why?

why?

Don't care. I think it should be the default option.

That's b.s. and it isn't even controversial.
A newborn and a fetus are scientifically classified as homo sapiens. It has nothing to do with (bio)ethics or philosophy. This is a fact.

"Personhood" (most people invoke consciousness being essential to a person to argue for abortion) is a philosophical concept, not a scientific one.
At least be honest.

Laws, social customs, etc. are not and can not be simply informed by scientific facts. It is a fact that a human fetus is classified as homo sapiens. So what? You can't jump to a value judgment from this scientific fact outright.

Same would apply to:

What happened at (???) was exactly your ethical judgement, hidden under your scientism.

Consciousness isn't just a philosophical concept, it is studied by science, and it is experienced by you right now.

If you read carefully, I didn't advocate or go against anything. I simply said that people who say fetuses or newborns are not human, are wrong.

Oh, I didn't even say consciousness was or wasn't a philosophical concept, I said that personhood was. Learn to read nigger

Up to 20 weeks for all but after then only for special circumstances and the rest can induce an early birth. I think this is the most fair to all.

Depends on the field invoked. Law is flexible, it could just as easily categorize 1 year olds as non-human. Same with ethics, or philosophy in general.

Personhood is the unique organizational structure of consciousness. It is too studied by science.

Why? What's the problem with post-natal euthanasia, for instance?

ITT: moralfags say "X is bad" without further reasoning

No, fetuses and newborns, according to science are humans, as was just said. Whether the law regards them as people is another thing.

I'm only talking about them being humans, that's it.

Exactly. Up until 3 years kids are functionally just wild animals with little brain function.

If we allowed "trial run" parenthood that allowed post-birth abortion, you would actually have far more women willing to give it a try when there's no risk of being locked down for 18 years if you don't like it.

Shock horror.

Again, scientific facts hold little more than one perspective for lawmakers to consider. If you let a baby, scientifically classified as homo sapiens, grow up in the wild, unsocialized, I'd doubt you could call it human.

Humanity is not reducible to its biology.

Babies have plenty of brain function, though not yet subjects of language, society. By year 3 most kids start to talk, lower that to 1,5 and we good.

Crunching them into sauces to be sold on the free market seems more appropriate than just shooting them babbies.

I never said that, although a captive bolt device would be far less painful and cruel than the other methods mothers are forced to use when they decide that being a parent isn't for them and suffer emotional breakdowns due to the stress of being forced to care for a needy parasite.

B-BUT IT IS YOUR NATURAL DUTY, WOMAN!

Holy shit, the only thing I've said is that they're humans, because they are. This has nothing to do with the law or lawmakers.

I'm sure it will turn into a piece of wood.

not saying it is.

Humanity is a vague concept. You're talking about what the word "human" connotes. I'm talking about what it means biologically. To say that they're not human, is flat out denying the facts.

It feels good that atleast someone on Holla Forums is willing to discuss it, even if its only for babies up untill age of 3.

It's proven that they would turn into feral children. While genetically a human, functionally an animal.

My efforts are clarifications, exactly because of this.

I'm talking about different legitimate ways of talking about the issue. Or are you saying that humans should restrict themselves talking about "humaneness" from a scientific POV? If so, why?

I know, and we agree on that.

To say they can only be human (since scien. classif. as such) is denying the legitimacy of other discourses.

Humans are animals, so what does "functionally an animal" mean. It doesn't matter how strange or retarded they are. They're still human.

Puppies are dogs and so forth. You will not say that roses are not plants because of whatever when they are.

Not being beings of language, unable to socialize, confined to instincts.

I think everyone should have at least one abortion in their life.

I support this but only if we make them into necklaces.

So most Africans aren't "people" now? Fucking wew.

...

It's good but I propose two changes

It should be vehemently encouraged

t. antinatalist

I wish my parents aborted me >__

Fantastic, we should make it legal up to age 3 and make it into a public spectacle where babies are killed with hand grenades

Not even memeing tbh, sometimes I have my moral doubts about abortiong but then I go on the internet, read pro-life comments and become convinced that we need baby genocide

I don't have an opinion about abortion itself, because it's not my body or my child. Why should I tell a woman who could possibly die in birth, or who was impregnated unwillingly by a rapist that she MUST have her child?

In fact, I support abortion solely for one reason: abortion will happen whether you like it or not.

Give people the chance to have abortion safely, with proper disposal of the unborn child and follow-up care as necessary.

hug me

The best argument for abortion is a five minute discussion with a typical pro-life activist.

One of the big benefits I think we could get from banning abortion, if we were to, is the fact that women would now have children when they're younger.

I was born to a mother and father that were both in their 30's. Because of this, I am inferior, both mentally and physically. We all know the correlation between mothers age and autism, but did you know that there's a correlation with your facial attractiveness and your father's age at birth too?

ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138(14)00031-2/abstract

It could also categorize blacks as non-human (and has), or children up to the age of 3, or 5 or 7 or adults older than 70, or women.
Laws are convention and that convention has to be derived from somewhere, if you don't want to fuck with people's lives on the basis of spooks you use science and philosophy.
not necessarily

So killing injuns and aboriginals is fine because they don't talk your language?

It can be and is more useful as so, personhood is better to define subjectivities like language and instinct.

t. lolbert

People have been aborting fetuses since ancient times. People have also been dying from complications of abortion since ancient times. At the very least, abortion needs to be legal for medical cases; there's absolutely no need for a woman to die because she's a high-risk pregnancy and killing muh unborn child that's going to die anyway is fucking wrongthink, faggot.

Giving adults more value than children is spooked and utilitarian but the opposite is also true.

I place value on life, period. Is it better to let two people die when you can save the life of one?

well spooked

please explain

please explain, I'm glad I was born actually

oh you poor bastard. Someone should really put you out of your misery. It must be awful to have such delusions

It's murder.

...

dumb christfag

Abortion should be mandatory specifically to prevent the likes of people like you from being born

...

open heart surgery is pretty gory too dumbass, nobody tries to use that as proof it's wrong.

It's my parents fault.

Nice ethical theory fams.
geez

present a real argument then

The real wrong of murder is that it robs the victim of their future of value. Unjustified murder and abortion are entriely equatable in this regard. If you attempt to justify abortion, you're either an edgy autistic psychopath or a complete retard.

ok fam

legalize drugs and murder

Fuck off moral fag and give me the stem cells.

*vacuum cleaner noises*

Uhm… are you SERIOUSLY arguing that having a screaming parasite that shits all over itself and constantly needs to be cleaned and fed, while keeping you awake all night doesn't result in extreme mental distress?????

Well who's fault is it that the child was born? Just use the pill, first of all.
Secondly, try motherhood one time then come back and tell me if you still think that way.

...

Uhm… are you SERIOUSLY disagreeing right now?

S E R I O U S L Y

t. riggered

Your worldview is warped.

How about you faggots take a fucking pill that fucks up your hormones?

If men could get pregnant there would be extremely cheap birth control with zero side effects, and nobody would even care about abortion.

hey, serious question, why not just do it if you hate it so much?

thats not possible, stop pretending to be happy

Under capitalism and only under capitalism, i sympathize with pro abortion, the ethical dilemma of being born into poverty with no money etc..

Under socialism or communism, i am anti abortion, YOU DO NOT OWN the baby you sick fuck, what is this capitalist logic?
Let him be raised by either you or the state schooling him about the suffering of life and that there is no shame in suicide and then LET HIM take Decision by himself at the age of 18 or so.

Best ethical system i got here fam.
geez your ethical theory can't even compare.
you filthy utilitarianists

...

What, jumping in front of a train?
That means you actually value life or at least have some survival instincts inside you.

Hope you sort it out and get better lad.

I'm against abortion in all cases.
The only logical exceptions are: actual provable rape, not I got drunk so it was rape; and genetic deficiencies that will kill the baby very young that we are not even close to curing yet, say like it is born into terrible pain and dies within 18 months - why live?

FUCKING NORMIES GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

How you feel about a parasite has no effect on whether or not it is a parasite.

spooky lad

boo

But being born into terrible pain and living for 60+ years like most do is totally okay

explain the child=parasite viewpoint to me

fucking this
just ambush me fam. put me out of my misery. kill me in my slumber. end it

very nice

Eh, your argument is not that bad, but you keep ignoring the serious effect of material well being that the baby will come into

Most leftists that are pro Abortion are under pure cultural hegemony, the under laying argument of leftism is being against humans dictating the lives of other humans beings.

Somebody's spooked.

This is the problem with anti-natalism. You project your personal experiences onto an entire population and then try to rationally justify it.

I don't really approve of it but I don't want the State to ban it.

it has no biological sense to it so that user cant explain it, nor can anyone except insane sjw feminists
a parasite has to be of another species and if it is of the same species (very rare) it cant be the main reproductive method - it calls all humans parasites so its nonsensical

But your ethical theory is fucked fam,

My mistake

reeeee stop pretending your life isnt shit

unironically reported

it is what it is, if you live to at least 6+ you can start saying what it is you are experiencing and when 15+ you can make decisions for yourself
a 1 year old that is certain to die in short order cant do that

lol ok

my first post in the thread lad
if the child grows up it has choices

which is bipolar
how can you be against dictating the lives of others - actual liberalism (libertarian - liberty, liberal) while saying the child is not a life and so the mother can discard it like a used box of pregnancy pills - the ones she chose not to use

W E W

its under the modern sjw umbrella of leftism
hate all life
hate all successful civilizatons
implicitly spout racism when you say non whites cant get by without all possible help and sacrifice by whites to help them
its a hate filled death cult

should the state fund abortion clinics but not child care and foster houses?

What are the anti-abortion fags' main problem anyway? Other than "it's murder :^("

see

youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

being spooked reactionaries and so on

This. Crime, and thus "murder" is a spook.

is a pretty serious problem.

abortion envy. They wish they were never born because life is suffering, so they take out their rage on everyone by preventing abortions

I think we all know the only person suffering from abortion envy in this thread is you.

I said CAN'T.

Try actually reading Stirner.

As a well adjusted human bean, I have come to terms with my desire to go back in time and abort myself. Maybe you should as well

...

It's not murder though.

...

It actually is though

By fighting the system that handcuffs our lives to few at the top dictating how much i can or can't eat and how much time i stay with my waif "by simply controlling my external social interactive power "Money" via dictating my wage"

+ Read Antonio Gramsci if you want to learn about cultural hegemony.
And being in a group subconsciously making you believe ALL OF that group ideas with out careful selective possess

There's no victim in abortion.

But it's not, as children are property until they're 18, and one can legally dispose of unwanted property without issue (including pets or livestock) , so why not children?

poal.me/lr7vxf
poal.me/lr7vxf
poal.me/lr7vxf
poal.me/lr7vxf

This is the kind of mental acrobatics that led you to believe your retarded position in the first place.

Have you moralfags considered that it might be be moral to prevent a life being brought into the world? Rather than forcing a lifetime of suffering upon the individual.

You can't rob something that doesn't exist. It's like saying masturbation is wrong because you steal the future value of the being that could come from sperm, thus the Monty Python video.

Have you edgelords considered that your projecting your misrery onto everyone else and that the large majority of people don't wish they were aborted?

That individual can off themselves whenever they feel like later in life. You shouldn't prevent people from having fun and take away that joy from them just because you wouldn't want to be born.
I though this board was fro /fun/. Guess not.

Degenerate tbh

have you considered not pretending to happy?

So you know better than the baby and there for can take the action instead of him?

What is this shit ethical theory.
geez plz read more kant

It's the current year, it's far from edgy, it's widely accepted in pretty much the entirety of Europe and the US for over 30 years. Not only that but the religious countries that prohibit it allow free travel to those that don't so in practice anyone with sufficient money can get an abortion.
You're edgy for denying a woman her rights to murder babies just like vegans are edgy for denying humans their right to murder other species and commies are edgy for denying people's god given property rights, deal with it.
I hate moral absolutists so fucking much.

guess it's sorted out then

Sperm will not grow into a conscious human being if not intentionally interfered with. If you ever get murdered by an autistic mass murdering gunman, I hope your last thoughs are of how justafiable his actions are because you can't be robbed of something that doesn't exist right before you eat buckshot.

Nice optimism bias

So is capitalism.

Not an argument.

What the fuck are you even trying to say here?

nice proxies m8 ur a real hax0r

surprise surprise

Observe, the militant libtard's reaction when exposed to reality.

where do you think you are?

You faggots need to read this:
philosophynow.org/issues/45/The_Last_Messiah

top kek

You obviously think you know better to birth them in the first place, they don't ask to be born, you take it upon yourself in all your hubris to make that decision for them. The non-existent don't want to be born, they don't care because they don't exist and they're far better off that way. Why not just leave well enough alone. No need to overthrow capitalism if no one exists to be exploited by it.

Christ-fags think they have the peer pressure and social standing to call people edgy, they don't, they're a minority challenging people's established way of life now.

I just like to see conservatives suffer for having embraced capitalism when it's one of one the most reckless motors of impersonal change humanity has ever devised.

God damn you're fucking stupid.

Seek help.

motherfucker get off this board

That's not how pharmacology works. Every medication has side-effects.

That said, my ex-gf didn't want to take the pill and I could understand her, so we used the pull out method..

You missed my point entirely. I talked only about your usage of edgy, not of the ethical discussion of abortion.

Blacks have abortions in far greater amount than whites tho

So you hate moral absolutists, but believe in the absolute nature of language. Heh.

K lets take your logic.

1 he can kill himself
2 he can continue living

2choises he can freely chose.

1 you already kill him so he didn't do it freely
2 < this is a non existing choice

no choice giving to him what soever

So you are the one that act as a dictator of that baby not me.

Non existence is a non state.
Non state is non comparative. The word better require 2 states of "worse/better" for the comparison to work
, you can not compare it to non state

Do you agree with my logic and see my point ?
Say yes and i will shower you with god tier porn.

The abortion debate is shrouded in moralist language about rights and personhood, with most of the praxis of it revolving mostly around the legal status. Only recently has there been much attention on the economic factors, with abortion clinics losing funding and getting closed down, as well as the economic limitations of abortion to those who are well-off enough. However, all of these attempts at debate have focused primarily on abortion, with only a few hints as to the causes behind it. When people say they are not ready for a child or for an example in this thread, when anfem poster calls children parasites, its easy to see that the underlying reason behind abortion is the burden that child rearing brings. Whether abortion is legal or not people will continue to do it, among whatever other means they have to avoid that burden. Now we can look at the issue not as one of abortion, but at the many ways at how to reduce the burden. You could provide universal and free access to birth control, state-funded childcare and many other options. As for the antinatalists, I wish you no ill will, but if you ever do kill yourselves, I would prefer if you tried to do so in a way that advanced the goal of achieving communism.

...

lurk more

It may impact trauma only if the society around her makes a taboo about it.

haha

Fucking this.

Fuck all you pseudo leftist that are against abortion. You really care about kids then be against any and all exploitation that drives would be mothers to get them.

You're all just failed republicans that buy into the social conservative shit because your white, but don't buy into its neoliberalism cause your poor.

Every single one of you would be a neo liberal shill if you ever even got a drop of power

I just imagined a fat LARPing nazi fuck sitting at his computer and laughed out too hard.

Us a condom if you want to have meaningless sex with strangers. That way you don't have to kill any human larvas and nobody has to get their hormones all fucked up through pills.

Or do anal or oral. God damn stop being retarded.

You pro-lifers are spooked out of your mind

Is Pro-Choice somehow less spooked?

Killing an unborn unperson isn't the same as killing your grandma, you fuck. Besides, grandma meat is chewy, fetuses make for better sausages.

So does everything else
If they went into this knowingly and the procedure is done cleanly then I doubt this will be an issue.
A cluster of stem cells the size of a tic tac is not a person.

anybody have that screencap of that argument supporting abortion based on the idea that the fetus cannot sustain life on it's own?

No contraceptive method is 100%. And what if it's unavailable to people? Maybe they can't afford it or it's not being sold where they live.

What about rape or forced impregnations? What if the mother can't afford the long term costs of a child and doesn't want them to love a shit life?

There's a fuckton of factors and saying "just use contraception" is fucking stupid and ignorant.

Thanks dad for giving me that option!
Thanks dad for giving me that option!

Wow, pop in a third one with "50% OFF" price tag, another that comes in grape taste and it already starts looking much better now, dad!

fetus
fetuses don't have "choices," you retard

fetus
And is that fetus a proletariat? Because dictatorship of the fetus proletariat seems nice.

Yes, that's the whole point of antinatalism, "better never to have been."

Bull shit.

Yes, give fetuses the right to vote and legalize fetujiana.

Neither is a newborn babby, tho.

You're either missing the point deliberately or are cripplingly retarded.

fucking freeloaders

Reminder that the people here talk like their above morals and spooks, etc, but in the other thread ( ), they couldn't even give a real reason why a person should not kill each other without sounding like a bunch cloaked moralists.

How is a newborn baby a person? Does it have opinions, a dialect, tastes, habits, identity, purpose, duty, anything?

Baby is an fuckin empty floppy disk.

Fucking hell, it's like watching a midget compete in the high jump.

Listen here you little shit. Seeing as how I have to spoon feed you, the point I was making is that a cluster of stem cells AND FUCKING SPECIFICALLY those cells, are not a person.

Only a minute percentage of humanity need "reasons" not to kill others. That you received differing answers and you can't accept anything else but "because God says so" as an answer is your retardation not ours.

It's in my self-interest to not have people killing each other because then they would also be able to come and kill me

Morality has nothing to do with it, it's self preservation

Fucking hell, it's like watching a giant compete in the hide and seek.

Listen here you large shit. Seeing as how I have to ladle feed you, the point I was making is that a newborn babbies AND FUCKING SPECIFICALLY them babbies, are not a person either.

And? That's a complete non sequitur

It might be reductio ad hitlerum far as I care, since it is true

LOL yeah, it wasn't even that hard, and notice how thread died after I questioned metaphysical notions of progress, the unspooked sure seem to have a lot of unwarranted presuppositions.

way to not portray yourselves like a total bunch of psychopaths, leftists.

I'm not a pro-lifer, I'm a man so it's an issue will never effect me like that because I haven't and will not create any unintended pregnancies.

People who act like it's GOOD TO have an abortion are creepy and I don't like it. Rape would obviously a UNGOOD situation from the jump.

That Plan B shit would also be an excellent way to avoid having a doctor pull an increasing growing human larva out of you with clamps.

Like I said no uterus, so this is not a decision I will ever have to make, but if I did have one I'd like to never have to ponder it, especially the medical procedure part.

Much self-reflection and thought was invested into this dude.

why should I not kill a defenseless hobo and sell his organs for a high price?

It seems that stirnerfags only cite "self interest" to what they do not like to protect their petty morals.

Who the fuck are you talking to?

I haven't checked the thread recently, so I'll do that.

What?

...

Rotting corpses are also creepy, and scientifically bad for you!

You could but I wouldn't because I might also be a defenseless hobo one day

How is that relevant? Whether you do it or not, you might still end up as a hobo.

...

Those aren't rotting corpses. That's an inside look into a Nutella factory.

So? Karma follows you around or what? Spooky.

I shouldn't eat mustard because my father's sperm was once a mustard too.

What kind of parent you'd be?

mustard is not a human.

A fetus scientifically is classified as a homo sapien.
Failure

I admit that I just joke about it to offend people

I would never want one myself.

But dude you have to understand something most people like you think.

A lot of fetuses end up in still birth anyways and that's more heart breaking then just getting an abortion because with that, at least you want it. In fact most women will go through failed pregnancies before they could ever even have one, or it just doesn't form.

This happens to a lot of women, like a majority. You could get lucky first but you're still likely to accidentally fucking give birth early to something dead

And the worst part of that is these fucking anti abortion states are mandating all dead fetuses have to have a funeral. Not aborted. Just anything like that.

Most people just want to move on after something like that, not treat it like it was their fucking family member that's what leads everyone to get fucked up over it.

The fact is fetuses die. A lot. And anti abortion legislation is becoming more and more humiliating to the point it doesn't even involve abortion anymore. In states like Indiana and Texas. And you don't think this shit won't spread the next four years?

Being pro life at this point is caring more about a war on our reproductive rights than the people alive around all of us

Humy DNA and shit. No humy DNA in mustard seeds yet unless bioengineering has gotten a lot more advanced than I realized.

So fucking what? Scientific classifications have no relation whatsoever to social or moral choices.

By nature or the human race, reproducing at all is likely to cause the death of a fetus so why care about abortion and not reproduction in the first place

Care about the living breathing people around you.

leftists have been claiming they are "unspooked" since they discovered Stirner memes last year, when a closer inspection would indicate otherwise

I'm not anti-abortion or pro-life. I'll break it down.

Celibacy>Intentionally Reproductive Sex>Safe Sex>Unsafe Sex leading to Plan B>Unsafe Sex leading to a doctor initiated abortion>Unsafe Sex leading to a later term abortion>Unsafe Sex leading to abandoning your baby in a dumpster.

Rape is not on this spectrum because one party was a completely unwilling partner, but I assume they would choose to go with the Plan B to get their rapists progeny out of them ASAP.

the fuck>imreading>mygott

Abortions are against human rights.
This is exactly why we should let rape victims not able to get abortions after the third week.

What did you not understand?

Did I derive a social or moral decision from stating that fact, dumbass?

No, I didn't.

I'm just amazed at the mess of your thoughts.

If something is likely to die anyways, how do you defend it from natural causes

meant you

yep, and they are.
I'm sure everybody is, but from them to act all high and might is a laugh.

Theyre the same moralists as anyone else.

They make all these suppositions and leaps just to avoid reaching the conclusion they don't want to reach indeterminately.

...

A list of sexual relations or lack there of from best to worst:

1.Celibacy
2. Intentionally Reproductive Sex
3. Safe Sex
4. Unsafe Sex leading to Plan B
5. Unsafe Sex leading to a doctor initiated abortion
6. Unsafe Sex leading to a later term abortion
7.Unsafe Sex leading to abandoning your baby in a dumpster.

Did that help?

I'm just amazed that you are so obsessive you construct and think in lists.

I imagine what's it like being you for a day.

So an ordered list is somehow a mess?

Your aspersions don't follow any form of consistent logic.

Is this the "I am LOGIC personified" teen phase?

Wooohhh. You got me neckbeards. My patience has run out.

None of your replies after this post have been about abortion so I'm going to call it quits.

Your post was about evading abortion (and sex too, kek) and not abortion.

...

hello porky! please tell me about all the western investment we'll be getting after these population control schemes. The poor don't deserve to breed.

hello nixon!

its our milk faggot.

thank you fun is wrong.

So most Africans aren't "people"

you do realize that the original name for "planned parenthood" was "the negro project" and margaret sanger referred to black americans as "human weeds who needed to be pulled"

we must kill all people to save some pointless bird,mao was wrong in killing off animals. Conservative Enviromentalist semen is my favourite dish.

based user

except the unborn child and the state and the people.

Birthcontrol is acceptable in most cases. Abortion in the case of rape or that fails in the rare eventuality.

but no why should we tell the poor they can't have children?

Only a few leaders have been GENUINELY of the people enough to realise this one of which is Ceausescu. And I believe the north koreans and some yugoslavian countries.

Russian and China wouldn't touch stuff like this because the globalists want the poor dead as terms for a trade agreement (look up the georgia guidestones for an explanation).

while fun to a degree pornography is detrimental to the individual and com-modifies sex for capitalists.

what is vasalgel?

also why not a vasectomy/hysterectomy?

that's the trouble,women who want to fuck anyone often are the ones who will turn you down if you use a condom then end up crying about how hard their abortions are.

fuck you, you had the chance to take a pill or fuck a guy who is willing to use a condom. You are not a prostitute don't date arseholes and don't kill kids for the sake of sex. No sex in the world is worth it i swear.

So it's not an opinion if it doesn't fall into:

I love aborting my fetuses late term. I get to skip out on so many periods!

Let's burn down all the abortion clinics!

you are not a socialist, you are a vain capitalist cunt,

t. virgin

What the fuck does this even mean lmfao

My post was about the likelihood of stillbirths, or birth defects killing an infant early.

If you cared so much, you'd care about how to continuously deal with this.

You don't care at all and you're spazzing out about nothing.

Your opinions are also shit

showing compassion for all human beings even if you don't like them is the basis of socialism.

choosing to kill children is wrong,children should be cherished.

The ending of human life unnesseciarily for the sake of lust is wrong, there are systems of birth control which allow for sex without any children being hurt.

i can guarantee, that a surgical abortion will cause more harm to many women than taking contraceptives such as the pill another reason to take them.

Murder by the gulag or the womb is wrong, as socialists we strive to help society and people as much as possible.

The people who want racial and gender divisionalism also want the poor dead, and that means no kids for you and me.

The cool sex culture, often represented as a war on women but actually on both sexes is a form of reducing people to genitals instead of people and commodifiying sex and associating commodities with sex. This started with the propaganda of edward bernays.

Fetuses aren't children

They are human beings tho.

Pre-neurotic subjects have no moral value.

Considering most women who even aim for children in their lifetime will miscarry, I don't think you really understand the issue.

No, they are not human beings

Yes people care.

No abortion is not saying nobody cares.

You can't just ignore the probabilities about miscarriage and then complain about abortion existing in the first place. It's very likely by natural reasons a fetus won't be developed to term, and nobody treats that like it's nothing.

Nobody treats abortion like it's nothing either.

You aren't around women so you don't understand shit

not a single thing
sage

Fun fact: The only people who oppose abortion are sexless and/or virgins.

The only way to hold so rigidly onto an absolutist prohibition, which is more abstract and spooky than tangible in principle, is if you’ve never had to deal with the very real material consequences of an accidental pregnancy.

Give a young and poor or struggling or precarious pro-lifer a pregnancy scare and you’ll find an abortion apologist.

Given their birth-rates I doubt Christian evangelicals are lacking in the sex department

20 is about the age they can survive outside the womb prematurely and it's when the thalamus is fully formed so they should be fairly concious at that point thus able to not only feel pain but understand it on a deeper level than just a reflex.
brainblogger.com/2009/05/10/medical-controversy-when-does-life-begin/

It's sometimes okay if it's from a major medical problem. The problem is they have their own body and conciousness and own legal rights. Why even ask that aside from shitposting or trolling?

What meaningful definition of consciousness are you using? A newborn babby's level of "consciousness" doesn't really differ from a puppy's. Without symbolization (language) you are not able to self-reflect, to get out from your stupid little animal head and look back at yourself.

What meaningful definition of "understanding" are you using, applicable to a newborn baby? Without a system of capturing, transmitting knowledge, understanding is impossible. Or are you again just mistakenly anthropomorphizing a pre-subject? You do realize that we use words like "understands" to describe the behavior of a dog and a human, yet we mean completely different things by it?

People don't "have their own bodies" – this is a ridiculous violence on language. People are their bodies, and a babby doesn't have a concept of self yet to which it could tie the things it does and the things that happen to it. Expressing everything in terms of ownership is lawyer-speak typical of the current capitalist superstructure.

So I've dealt with the first two: you use expressions very liberally but upon closer examination they turn out to be fallacious and empty comparative/anthropomorphizing tactics. The latter can be changed, and as such holds zero argumentative worth in a discussion exactly about that, moreover, should be changed, and that is why this discussion is not "shitposting" as you've put it.

I believe them bones are me
Some say we're born into the grave
I feel so alone
Gonna end up a big ole pile a them bones

I did not say or imply it's equal to a full grown adult. Do you drown puppies as a pastime or something? I'm just using "understanding" in the sense of it going through the brain rather than just through the nerves and the brain is of enough cognition it is more than a fish. So conjoined twins are just one person to you because they only have one body?

I'm not talking in terms of young – old; developed – underdeveloped, if you haven't noticed. I'm talking about pre-subject and subject proper (being in language).

Well, that is not how we use "understanding." Do you understand it this time or did it just go through your brain again?

You've changed from consciousness to cognition (and hilariously even managed to quantify it). Different things. Just because a babby has "more cognition" (perceptual impulses) than a fish it doesn't mean we can treat it as a proper human subject. Even funnier: in some sense adults have less cognition than babbys, the lose the sense of radical newness of the world, etc.

No, I debate with idiots on the internet, as you can see.

Conjoined twins don't have one body. Just because I decide to superglue my benis into your mother's anus we don't start having "one body."

So, you believe in biological imperatives and determination?

I'm not very familiar with the term "pre-subject".

You're being kind of anal about my word choice. Would you prefer if I said cognitively recognized? I couldn't come up with a word for what I specifically meant.

You can't have conciousness without cognition so my shift i words isn't a big deal.

So you debate with yourself.

I'm not talking conjoined by a skin flap. I'm talking about conjoined in such a way they can't be separated so they basically are a body with two heads and an extra lung or something. . By your previous definition these two separate minds with one body are only one person.

I`m anti-humanism so I say fuck it.

Fuck it? Ian Watkins is that you?

Not literally, it would make me quite uncomfortable.

except she's actually killing what could have been her child. Women don't just take that and live on.

That's not how Stirner works

asking the state to fund abortion doesnt make sense, not when you just replace it with foreign culture because the population and thus 🍀🍀🍀capitalism🍀🍀🍀 gdp is shrinking

i enjoy shitposting with fags like you
all unborn children need to experience that to determine if it is suffering, or unadulterated bliss

There is a causal link between unwanted children and crime. So it makes sense to lessen crime.

Killing plants is murder.

Murder is a legal term not an action. Even in legal terms in places where it is or was illegal it's called abortion not murder and charged different.

Exactly. That's not the same as killing your child.

Suffering is an objective fact of the human condition. Show me kids who didn't get sick, hungry, frightened, beaten, hurt, and then you may have a case. (And I didn't even go into the psychological suffering which nearly all of us experience regularly.)

You can't have chicken soup without water, so my shift i words isn't a big deal.
at least you are open about your standards

Conjoined twins don't have the same body, otherwise there would be nothing that could be conjoined, you maniac.

there's a link between minorities and crime
kill the minorities

It's not chicken soup without chicken just as conciousness isn't conciousness without cognition.

Your idea of a body would be counting half a body as a full body then.

you are a special kind of retard

That link is from poverty not from race being the cause.

but what about the unemployed fetuses?
LEFTYPOL BTFO

used yuor own logic against you

You're just desperately trying to boost your ego even I pointed out how futile your efforts are. You have yet to back up any stance you have with something solid. You are not on the high ground.

Im personally Pro-Death

everyone crying about how life is so horrible, you can abort yourself right now.

no one is stopping you

In the general case I am against it, for it entails killing of something that my mind has attached some meaning to. However I think it should be considered on a case-by-case basis and I have no right, duty or need to tell people what they ought to do.

Their karma is their own.

What if destroying fetuses gives all my suffering meaning?

this is your lucky day then, because death is pro-you

This is your brain on pro-natalism.

it wont matter much soon, once they perfect growing them outside the womb (which they can do now for like 90% of the abortions that take place), there is no valid reason to get one, they should be grown out of the womb and adopted, anyone saying otherwise is committing murder in my eyes, just because you created something doesn't give you the right to destroy it.

"creation" implies will (of a creator)

most abortions happen because women did not will to "create" babby in the first place

what is your argument, even?

Changes nothing, i can see why society would allow itself to look past it when it's a hindrance to the woman, even though in my mind it's as bad as killing a defenseless dog who trusts you, sociopathic tendencies.

You can't create an argument for a procedure which is the same as abortion however the fetus survives yet the woman still wants to kill it, that's sick and twisted.

Oh, I thought it clearly did, but you convinced me otherwise.

A fetus is isn't even a dog.

Let me try. Fetuses aren't people. Procreation should be planned by people and not left to chance or spontaneous morals, because this benefits the kids and parents best. Abortions are therefore good.

So in your system where you outlaw abortions and robot mothers give birth to them what happens to those children? Foster care? Wow. That's wonderful. Foster children are one of the most miserable, psychologically tormented children on the face of this planet, you sick fuck.

Instead of the woman being forced to raise them, all you're doing is shifting the burden onto the rest of society.
If you live in an impoverished society and they don't have the will or means to do it, then abortion is probably still an option. All that aside, making fetuses the property of the state until they are born raises a lot of other questions.

No. Robot parents. Problem solved.

ROBOT. PARENTS.
PROBLEM. SOLVED.

...

moron

We've experimented raising animals without the emotional connection from another living being, and it's gone horribly wrong. Robots are only an option if you want sociopaths.

Sociopaths are still better than abortions (=MASS KILLING)

this is your brain on pro-natalism

...

"it… was… still… worth. eeeet… *blech*"

...

this is why nobody respects the left wing, they pretend to be on a moral highground but if mainstream media bumps abortion as good they side with it, with arguments like ur dum.

why do the only good arguments ever come from Anarchists. I'm sure there is a way to create a collective where you have special schools created to be a democratic or Sudbury school, where kids don't really have parents they have leaders and kids learn skills equipped to lead the next generation.

this tbqh.

ur mum

Stalin wouldn't of supported abortion.

Sad but necessary

Should not be advertised as it is today, but should be more widely available than it is today. In the hands of shitlib scum it is dangerous. Though it can be made a vital public health service in an anarchist society

why?

Advertised where? Educating kids that it is a legit option? Is that what you consider advertisement? Or that there are privately owned abortion clinics who might do ads for their services?

Medical care should be strictly non-private, that solves your latter problem; kids should be educated on sex no matter your feefees.

How is it "in their hands?" Like liberals profit from it or what?

Advertised? The only ads I see are politically correct pro-life nonsense.
Planned Parenthood doesn't even do that many abortions compared to the rest of their services.

Because babies have not been corrupted by memes yet and are empty vessels waiting to contribute to the zeitgeist and become beautiful actualized humans with hopes and dreams. Denying them their existence is a terrible act even when it is done in the best interest of the child and the mother/family/society.

I support women's right to and access to contraception and abortion. But, I will not smile or cheer when it happens like a lot of libscum femnazis do because they would abort already born children if given the chance to shirk all motherly responsibilities.

It should not be taken lightly ever. Mother should be in a state of mourning after the deed is done and should be given immediate counseling by community leaders/fellow women. We should mourn the loss of the child and respect the resolve of the mother to do what was necessary. Grieving is essential psycho-physical process to prevent mental illness regarding sudden death. Liberals are subhumans and do not understand this.

Should? God forbid they have a little mental fortitude.

Very retarded, to be fucking honest.

Ok. So by terminating a fetus you deny them to be able to develop into full humans. What's the problem?

And you are the one calling others liberals? KEK! How the fuck do you know those fetuses would turn into bootifull people? Some would be horrible psychopaths, most completely grey idiots, a very few actually "beautiful." What these would all share is an equal opportunity to suffer, however.

You realize that that's impossible, right? You can't abort already born babies. It is called euthanasia, and good arguments can be made for making it a post-natal practice, instead of putting millions of kids worldwide into foster homes.

Even battle hardened men should shed tears for fallen children. No need to be fake masculine user. Women can shed some tears and retreat from public life for a few days while they contemplate death. All noble cultures support mourning. Stop being edgy

Your mother is in a state of mourning for keeping you, that's for sure.

A fetus isn't a child, in a functional sense.

Yes, so those women post-abortion who don't mourn are currently in an abnormal state, so you would help them understand how they should relate to their problems.

>Even battle hardened men should shed tears for fallen children.
CONFORM TO MY MORALS, MEN, OR YOU ARE NOT REAL MEN

Yes typical soulless leftist

You've snuffed out life that would have likely survived just fine had you not. You have committed an act of violence, justified, but it is violence. You must contemplate what you have done and forgive yourself or mental illness will manifest either on personal or cultural level (see The Giver for society that thinks euthanasia is no big thing)

Suffering is part of gamble that is life. Is not a valid argument for preventing life. They have not yet been ruined by gene expression or deranged culture.

No you are a subhuman if you feel nothing when you kill a child. That's a basic visceral biologically programmed understanding that helps species protect against infanticide.

Nobody supported abortion. Even Lenin was against it and called it evil. It's simply in those circumstances legalizing it was the best choice, so he legalized it.

When circumstances changed and people were no longer starving to death and there was support for mothers, it got revoked. And don't pretend it was Stalin's personal initiative, okay?

My mommy loves me very much, she tells me all the time user

Highly debatable, it is going to be one and should be treated as if it is one for ethical purposes

I would ask women and communal elders to help them grieve. I am young man and am not in position to discuss death of the young with women. I do recognize discussion is necessary.

Your faggot post-modern disgust at basic human decency is unimpressive and unbecoming

It isn't highly debatable, please go through sex ed again

A "subhuman" exists no more than "man" exists. You're awfully spooked, user. There is nothing good or bad about abortion.

Late second trimester, early trimester child is child. They can survive in incubators and with intensive medical intervention. I am not anti-second trimester abortion. But this is where it becomes debatable. Sorry user I will not yield on this. You must be conscientious of how you snuff out life. Regardless if it is warranted. Even when lining up Capitalists to meet their maker

a fetus is functionally not a child yet, you miserable cretin

ew

Why? Because it is biologically more developed? So fucking what. We don't treat people people based on their biological development, we treat them like people because they are social entities of our kind. A fetus isn't a social entity. It is an "empty vessel" as you called it before.

Such a transparent and dishonest tactic.

No mother can love a son like Lucille Bluth loved Buster and you know this user

Uh its an organism that could survive outside the womb. It should be treated as if an organism was euthanized for its own good/the safety of others. This is a serious and grave act of violence. Should be looked on with solemnity and reflection on the fragility of organic life. Have a heart user

PEAK LIBERALISM

This is fucking stupid

Lol where am I advocating property rights and the priorityof capital over labor?

No it is humane and self aware. Which is something the left lacks. Which is why most of the proletariat hates the left and views it as anti-human

No, user, you are liberal in the ideological and moral sense of the word.

No it's fucking stupid and anti-intellectual nonsense that forgets most women in their lifetime if trying for child will have stillbirth.

Want to stop poor stillbirths from dying? Quit being opposed to women's health, that includes abortion if a Stillbirth can kill someone in child labor.

The laws you are arguing for have cost women their lives for no fucking reason whatsoever.

At no point am I ascribing organisms with metaphysical statuses such as the nonsensical personhood you are using to impoverish unborn children of right to consideration through mourning. I reject ideas like personhood as major spook

You are simply asshurt that I am not cold hearted techno-socialist such as you

I'm pro-choice, but God damn people on that side are fucking stupid. They have no idea whatsoever what pro-life people are arguing, they just shout "my body my choice me me me" and try and shut down any discussion about the actual life-value of a fetus, rather than intelligently forming their own attitudes to the real question.

But of course they don't have to think. They're riding the wave of material conditions, and they know it.

I don't know if this is true but it is irrelevant and it is the opposite of anti-intellectual. Biological and emotional responses to death are pre-programmed and not easily ignored.

I'm not I fully support abortion even emergency third trimester abortion, along with Plan B and all forms of contraception
I don't believe in rule of law at all whatsoever user. Am anarcho faggot member? Women have right to abortion (should have abortion)

What does this even mean? You don't have identifications, a sense of "I," tastes, habits, etc.? Or you are calling the aforementioned "spooks" altogether?

How about individual and cultural responses? Ever heard of those, Einstein? Some people grieve, some people are happy that they don't have to raise a kid that they won't be able to support, some women are disgusted by the thought of an organism growing inside them; some cultures hold feasts when someone dies, some cultures hold fasts, some cultures celebrate like the passing of a loved one (which a fetus can't be in the ordinary sense of the word) was a happy event, some cultures mourn.

Yes even the ego is a spook (i can't remember if Stirner got that far, doubt it)

Only organic systems and life support systems like Sun, Stars, Space-Time exist. They are continuous and all distinctions between them are arbitrary and provisionally useful.

These are just biological patterns, they do not necessarily correlate with what is healthy for the organism. Which is self evident, when introspection and natural philosophic observation are synthesized within lucid healhty sapient organisms mind-brain.

Many of those biological patterns are dysgenic, anti-life and should be left to die.

God I hate biological determinists

Biological determinism is the only pill you need

I wouldn't want to have a real discussion either. Have you seen those PP protestors?

What's a human language, then? Organic system or life support system? (kekking at these terms, tho) IMO neither. What's truth, then?

KEK

tell us edgy stirnerite science man about the optimal culture, optimal morals, and optimal individuals

dropped

That humans can be hard to predict is itself determined by our biology. It's a non sequitur.

It's sophist bullshit you're trained through criticizing if you want anything published or taken seriously

Do you know why?

There is not any fucking evidence and is what freshmen use in paper they want to shit out with no real argument and no real handle of the facts and their complexities

Biological determinism is what you believe when you read Pop Sci and you never even touched philosophy or hard sci or mathematics.

It's divorced from logic and pretends to be it.

Life support system. Its essential for survival of most mammals, especially hominids

Maximize eugenic life and biodiversity always and forever.

This is the New New Age Science

Someone is sad about their genetic endowment

Biological Determinism Rulez Everythang Around Me

No it is understanding that life must continue no matter what, this can only happen if eugenic life and/or biodiversity is preserved at the expense of everything else. Epigenetics are the saving grace of dysgenic life

Absolutely. Proto-fascism. user is so spooked, claiming to be an anarchist, thinking like a moralist liberal, and holding crushingly conservative beliefs on women, while being a technocratic proto-fascist.

I'm nominating user for MEME'S Person of the Year.

This is the New New Age Science

Ecologically Minded low impact Techno-Anarchism is the way forward. Ignoring advances in genetics, epigenetics and biology is like ignoring the creation of internet. It will do nothing but disempower you

Take the bio-determinism pill. You will feel much better

"I'm a meme thinker and I know it"

Do you deny that some life forms are dysgenic and would die without serious intervention on their behalf? Do you deny that allowing them to breed freely would not destroy the gene pool? Do you deny that we can better preserve human life by preserving biodiversity? Would you rather we had 1000 species of photosynthesizing lifeforms or 1,000,000 species? You understand that we are fighting uphill battle against ocean acidosis and total collapse of coral reef ecosystems that support huge portion of marine life?

We must take extremely bold and harsh measure to protect the species and life on Earth user. This is no time for qualms about proto-fascism.

No one is saying to nuke Africa or gas the Jews. But, gorilla minded sloth people should not be encouraged

You would rather we choke to death from lack of oxygen and watch our grandchildren die of bone acidosis?

I'd rather them not being born.

This is the New New Age Science

No, it doesn't imply any will(at least not the way you're using it). People can create stuff accidentally all the time.

So women should be held accountable for an accidental creation (be it rape, torn condom)?

Well they will eventually do something about it, whether that is give birth or not. I don't know if that's what you meant by accountable, but since is a living thing inside them, there's not really a choice but to do something after the point of conception.

Unless they miscarry, of course. Then the accidental creation is dealt with via accidental destruction with no intent either way

Looking through this thread, it looks like there are plenty of reasonable people who are willing to support some sort of community childcare program and easy access to contraception, but anyone who's unwilling to accept antinatalism or essentially infanticide is derided as some sort of evil conservative boogeyman.

I mean in any context, not just with batshit reactionaries. That's lazy, it's like a Holla Forumsack saying "I wouldn't want to have a real discussion either, have you seen those SJWs?"

I'd like to see a run down of people in this thread who've had an abortion(or their progeny aborted) or know someone who had an abortion.

I know a guy who knocked up a couple girls in high school and he's stuck on the 'what if I was a father right now' bit decades later.

No Pregancy>No Abortion. Wear a fucking condom. Gotdamn. It's not rocket science.

Should be compulsory.

Colour me surprised…

And in a way he's right. Just because he is a self-unaware hypocrite doesn't mean he is wrong.

If you hate life so much then just kill yourself.
That still doesn't give you the right to decide that for other people. If the kid is born and hates life it can just make the decision to die itself.