Stealth game thread

No, but upon hearing that it's the spiritual successor to the Tenchu franchise it immediately got put on my list.
If anybody has please talk features, I feel like I'll never get my Tenchu Z game where I can combo-stealth kill stunned enemies from the shadows.

Anybody else enjoyed Styx?

A platformer stealth game that didn't suck, with an interesting (but needed to be used more) clone mechanic?
It felt like a good game from 2006, from the voice acting right down to how the camera in some cutscenes would just sort of pant to what the main character talked about.

Loved every minute of it.

The special edition tools are really, really overpowered for ghosting.

It suffers a bit from modern design, but yeah, I had fun with it. I actually stopped playing it to go and play Deus Ex instead, but I reinstalled my computer's OS, so I'd play it through again. The protagonist is rather charming and roguish, which is good for a stealth game, and the hardest difficulty which you should be playing on no matter what makes it into an almost brutal game. Brutal in the sense that you're going to watch even the lowliest foreman smack your goblin ass to death with a hammer, it's almost funny how powerless you are in a fight.

Styx was really fucking good, and doesn't get anywhere near as much credit as it should.

That's not really true, though.

There's an entire extra campaign you can play in the Special Edition where you go with the Ink Dude (the old man that paints the tatoos on your body)
He has a nice arsenal of non-lethal weaponry but some very lethal too and his mission can also be beat with excessive slaughter.

The base game already features the ability to do non-lethal quite well and you can unlock a suit that removes lethal options all together (but makes you complete silent when running) forcing you to sneak and not kill anyone (except with the environment).
And the best part is, you unlock that suit by performing non-lethal secondary goals.

It's true that you do get the old man's weapons for yourself in the campaign, but they were just 2 or 3 and while they were neat, they were also not that much better than your default kit. The only truly unique thing it adds is non-lethal finishers, but you can do non-lethal without them.

Played it, was really great at some things, not so much in others.

One thing I really loved is that it did the "small thing in a big world" very well. Guards look fucking huge compared to you and when you go to the outside areas, you look at all the space you can walk around and it's gorgeous, especially since you move vertically a lot as well. Graphically, the game is amazing specifically for this.

It also had the cloning mechanic that was pretty neat and let you do some nice stuff. It kinda ruins the idea of 100% pure stealth, though but the ending plot twist using a gameplay mechanic you grow so familiar was genious.

What I didn't liked was something that many stealth games suffer from. Levels end up feeling a lot like some sort of puzzle for you to figure out with solutions conveniently placed around by the Devs that you can spot and use.
I get that this is a philosophy in game design that a lot of people enjoy, but I really don't like reaching a room and seeing the main door with a guard (combat route), a second route by a hole in the wall up some ledges (the sneak route) and a fruit bowl where the guard is always eating (the assassin route).

The fun thing in stealth is studying the situation and coming up with your own plan to beat it, not have these readily available and very convenient solutions for you that are so obvious they might as well make it a QTE.
You'd often see many different paths that you'd try to take only to find they are dead ends because, to pass into the next area or section of this area, you'll have to go through this specif part of the map that is only connected in these very specific routes. It's a bit disapointing.

I'd much prefer a stealth game to give me impregnable fortresses with guards on realistic patrols and architecture that makes sense so I'd have to adapt and use common sense.

Dude, holy shit, that guy was really cool. How often does the SE go on sale? Should I just pirate it?

Also, you elaborate really well on what I mean when I say it suffers from modern design. But for what it is, it does it pretty well.

I'm fairly sure it's a single mission, not a campaign. As per the video, though, you can "use" the old man and his tools in the regular campaign.

Man, speedrunning stealth games is the best. He really looked like a ninja there.

So does anybody else here want more social stealth than just Death to Spies and Hitman?
I feel like we need some kind of level editor like the Dark Mod for a more disguise based gameplay, something so far I've heard rumors of popping up in very, very buggy, very flawed form in Arma 3.

I'm just surprised there aren't more stealth multiplayer games.
It seems dumb, but as far as I know nobody's even tried it beyond, what, Splinter Cell?

Well, if you already have the base game, the DLC is just 5 dollars.
I mean, it's still DLC but at least there's some effort put there. You're probably better off pirating it and if it stings your conscience, buy it when it's on sale.

Oh that it does. It's like as if every Thief level was made to use and abuse the rope arrow and every room as the size of the catacombs. The story was also pretty nice and every character quite well done, especially Styx and the real Styx
I think they were making another Styx 2, let's see what they can do.

Yes and no. It's indeed a single mission all in the same area, however if you compare it to the base game, it's length is about 2 or 3 regular missions. It's not that long but it lasts long enough and the best part is the difficulty. Since you can't kill people, you have a whole different set of tools and you start in one of the most dangerous areas in the game (the desert) it's a nice chalenge.

I'm actually surprised there isn't an entire genre around "Social Stealth". Being an impersonator, stealing identities and disguises, bluffing and lying your ass off to "sneak" right in front of everyone.

Probably isn't made since the classic mode of doing stealth games (fixed levels with fixed solutions and elements) would make it somewhat boring with the same strategy working a lot of the time, especially in extra playthroughs.
You'd need a system where the game generates random identities and people that you gotta meet and explore before you can impersonate them, as well as putting things like disguises in different places in every playthrough so you can't just go to the same place every time.

Probably because "stealth" doesn't work as well against human players. Many times you're in the dark where NPC's can't see you but a human player can clearly spot you. You'd need extra darkness and with that extra vision options like Night Vision googles. An asymetric gametype would be cool too, why didn't the multiplayer of Splinter Cell ever took off?

Although to be honest, co-op would probably be the best option. Operating\taffing about with a friend would be nice, especially since the game could increase the chalenge to compensate for 2 sneaky bastards instead of just one.

I kinda want a stealth sandbox game set in a city where you join a guild and do random jobs for random people, taking whatever aproach you want to specialize in. Sneak by the rooftops, case the join before going in and get information about what's inside first. Or take assassination missions and track your mark for days, learning it's habits and when it's vulnerable to strike. Or get fame and reputation to bullshit your way inside any place and steal information\valuables while in there.

I feel that only if it was in an open world city it could be fully explored since hideouts for you to escape the law (but that can be found if you're tracked) would had a personal touch and competing with random rogues or members of other secret societies would be neat too. You could even try and find where they live to steal shit from them, send a threat or murder the competition in their sleep.

Yeah, but what about social stealth? That seems like it would be more feasible for a multiplayer game - trying to deceive other players out in the open rather than sneaking around in a rather obvious manner.

I suppose Spy Party could be considered a "social stealth" game, though that's more due to the theme than the actual gameplay.

Probably because if someone tried to make a game like that it'd just be labeled as a Hitman clone.

Several examples already exist. games like Trouble in Terrorist Town, Ass Creed and The Ship have elements of social stealth as their core gameplay, but they aren't considered stealth games for whatever reason.

Aragami
I just found it god-knows-where, I don't even know much about it but it's fun as fuck
Maybe a bit too easy (I'm only on chapter 4)
And the archers cheat too much
But it's fun

What would you guys say the hardest entries in the genre are so far? I'd wager Hitman 2 and Death to Spies (the first one in general, the second on suit-only difficulty) qualify hands down.

Pics unrelated, just really enjoying emulation of MGS 3

If you are looking for that, you might want to try Space Station 13.
It's a neat multiplayer game about living in a space station as part of the crew and a few random players are picked as antagonists every round.

Antagonists (that can be traitors, revolutionaires, cultists or others) usually have to use stealth to get shit done and social engineering is ridiculously overpowered in the game despite not many people trying it.
Try the Holla Forums server we have here, just search for their thread.

You know what? I think I might. I tried it once, years ago, but I couldn't get into it.

Dark Messiah did a stealth class in multiplayer pretty well.

Assassins could become invisible, being only a slight shimmer when moving and completely invisible when standing still. They were very hard to spot, especially if you were in a bright area and they were in a dark area (due to the game's HDR) or in the middle of combat. Maps were pretty detailed with lots of visual noise and hiding spots. Though you would see them if there was nothing to distract you and they moved around in front of you.

Their footsteps were quiet and could be upgraded to complete silence, and they had the best stamina conservation and second best running speed in the game, which let them get around the map and flank enemy players effectively.

Be prepared for unintuitive controls and a lot of assholes. The server isn't what it used to be either, you'll get a lot of "funny" guys.

But I still recommend playing it and persevering since the game offers you so many gameplay options, it's a very unique experience. It's like a MUD but with icons.

And yet that multiplayer is dead now, isn't it?
I always get sad knowing all those great ideas were available and played only when I didn't had internet yet because that sounds like a neat way to play the game.

Reminds me of AvP2 and the Predators that had invisibility working like that and it was great.

There are a few gripes I had with the game, mainly the presence of boss fights and the "base defence" occurring far too often. Both of these don't utilise any stealth mechanics, and I don't think the fighting mechanics are fleshed out enough for the fights to be enjoyable.

There is an item crafting system, where you collect various herbs during stages and mix them back at base. There are 8(maybe 10, I forget) types of status affecting items, and they can be put into bombs to be thrown, food to be used as bait, or bottles to be drunk by you. There are also various recipes that make unique items.

The game itself is based on randomised missions which take place on various maps, some mission types are kill all enemies, collect items or escort/attack a convoy. The missions themselves are issued by three different factions fighting each other, so you get to decide which one to support, or take missions from all of them. There is a trust system with the factions, where doing missions for one will increase their trust, but being caught working against them will decrease trust. This means that you can play all sides so long as you aren't caught doing it.

As for the gameplay itself, the character is very mobile, so there aren't many obstacles to moving around the stages apart from enemy placement. Again, you have the grappling hook, so verticality is no obstacle.

I did enjoy the game, so I recommend people at least emulate it. There aren't nearly enough predator style stealth games available these days.

Play Dishonored non-lethal and without any magical abilities. It's pretty enjoyable. It's not as great as Thief, however it's decent in its own right.

Yeah, ubisoft stopped supporting it, so it's pretty much dead.

Came to this thread expecting some more discussion about this game, I have yet to try it out but looking forward to it.

Not, it is not

That's also like mentioning someone to play Hitman with Suit Only, Yellow Bar ban

If you don't like it, well that's fine, but I do. So, stay mad, nigger.

No, he's not entirely wrong.
The game only requires powers about twice total, which is half of why powers are in fact overpowered.

This isn't to say the argument isn't bad, if you need to ignore half the features to enjoy a game it's probably not well made.

Well, most certainly not a final verdict but heres my experience with the game so far.

I'm not gonna say my rig is anything special, it's a shitty laptop with an I7 core, 8gb of DDR3 RAM and some basic bitch intel GFX card. However, I can run most modern AAA games at the very least on a low or very low setting, not having to drop my resolution below 16:9 standards that and my standards for playability are (at bare minimum) around 20/25fps minimum.
I had to run this game in the lowest quality possible, 800*600, little to no shadows, no motion blur or AA, low quality everything and I was dipping below 20 fps.
I'd like to say it was a case of Unity just being a shit engine for optimization, but I've played unity titles with better performance including Necropolis.
Ya know the shitty half finished roguelite DS clone that was shart out in debug mode.
Yeah, THAT was better optimized.

Gameplay is stable but is lackluster at best due to a few poor design choices. The teleport mechanic is a neat tool but it is WAY too overused and in a lot of places, felt like a lazy way for the developer to get around ahving to design a decent map.
Teleporting cover to cover and up objects I frequently found myself wondering why I couldn't just walk their instead, only to find upon attempt that the AI is purposefully put in locations to discourage typical stealth play.
The real problem lies for me in that the powers feel VERY potent, yet there is constant attempt to make the character feel vulnerable. A good example of this is in combat, if you're hit, you die.
No, not a health bar, no crutch, no buffer, you die, end.
If you're thinking "Well I'll just run away!" forget about it, guards are about as fast if not faster than you on the chase and have a ranged attack that is spot on accurate and takes about as long as it normally takes for them to swing a sword, which is not very long.
You can, maybe, get a kill on them by spamming space as you approach before they finish the attack animation to be treated with a bugged animation and a canned, repetitive animation but the animation locks you in for a few seconds and killing an alerted enemy is hard to do unless you're close already.
Teleportation is the most viable option for all situations however, as teleporting behind the enemy to perform a kill allows you to avoid the attack and the timing window and allows you to slip back into the shadows with ease.
The teleport option provides an incredible power for the player at early levels, but it also serves as a crutch for the poor design of the levels and the player options when engaged.
To make matters worse, all actions you take are damn near instant, the only exception being killing an enemy.
The problem with this design philosophy exists primarily in the fact that the majority of the actions that you take as a player require little to no commitment. In a sneak and stab game like Tenchu, Splinter Cell, or MGS most actions required time and commitment, from movement to open combat and assassination.
In Aragami, one option is arbitrary and easy to perform at any given moment, the other is downright impossible, the final option requires some fom of commitment which is nullified the moment you can use a shadow kill.
Assassination feels lackluster and unsatisfying with the same 2 or 3 animations for every goon in the game and if you're like me and like killing goons, you'll be seeing it.
A lot.

To provide some context, Thief 1 and 2 had several options for escape and all were "viable" to some extent.
Obviously, you can try and fight off your enemies, a difficult task but possible even with your small damage and meager health pool.
You could try running away which was fairly effective in most situations provided you didn't run directly into another patrol (thus necessitating that you PLAN your route out).
Both very simple but the tools you use to combat them make significant difference and their ALL available to you from the getgo.
On the fight side, you could use a longbow your dagger or your shortsword and each offered different options for damage, defense, and versatility.
On the "flight" side you could use a flashbang, attempt to straight up run away leading to a chase, or attempt to run, hide, and retreat into the shadows to either continue with your objective or rengage. Tools like rope arrows, moss arrows, water arrows, and the noisemaker all helped to some degree with these tactics and could be used based on the scenario and environment you were in.
These abilities weren't one note, they weren't "Unlockable" and they were all discouraged but they were very useful depending on the situation, so while they all felt potent, none was a one shot solution to all your problems.
The map design presents an even bigger issue that even games like Dishonored, a poor stealth game in my opinion, managed to do very very right.
Dishonored has a few open areas in the beginning, to allow you to become accustomed to the teleport ability and the environment however, the environemnts were well built in places, allowing you to fully interact with some objects and use them to manipulate the AI's pathing and create opportunities for you to use your abilities to the fullest. As you progress later in the game, more options open up in different portions of thee map as you use your newly acquired powers to that point (no matter which one you took) to tackle the environment. While Dishonored was not the best stealth title, the map design felt organic and open in places allowing you to freely roam and find your way to the next objective.
Thief was much the same way, allowing different routes and opportunities based ont he gadgets you had available and allowing interaction with the environment, even Splinter Cell up to Double Agent had these features allowing you to trigger lightswitches, shoot lightbulbs, trigger cameras for a sound based distraction.
In Aragami manipulating the environment extends only to creating more shadows to hide in, enemies dont react to the spontaneous pool of black appearing before them.
The mixed AI is something that will be covered later but needless to say, this affects the gameplay a great deal.

You're a spirit of vengeance, an Aragami, that some Chaika looking bitch summons to kill a clan of light power users.
Don't bother caring about the story as the devs clearly didn't either all the IG cutscenes that are sloppily put together only have voice acting and subtitles, no animation, no change in movement or expression. This would be fine if it were just the PC who is supposedly just a soulless shadowy husk, but even the character who summons you stands perfectly still like a mannequin.
The cuts to comicbook like illustrations of the characters is well done, but often too short.
Sadly I've learned to develop a distaste for those segments as while theey doimprove the quality of the storytelling marginally, they also show off the creators lack of commitment. Making the comic book aesthetic a consistent choice in the cutscenes would've been fine, however, it feels as if the brevity of these scenes coupled with the otherwise poor attempts at exposition and lack of competent animation in the cutscenes draws from a well of laziness as opposed to any artistic or creative intent.

Incredibly stupid yet incredibly threatening due to their unpredictable nature. Most of the time the AI takes the purpose of being a dumb guard a little too seriously, and fails to spot the player in the most obvious of circumstances, such as when actively murdering a teammate around the corner or standing up, full length, crouching about 25 feet away.
However, at time's they're almost too perfectly astute being able to detect your character crouching on top of a fifty foot high structure, in shadowy lighting 24 ft away.
Lets not even get into archers.

Absolutely stunning.
For everything I hate about this game, the environments are fucking beautiful. The stages are poorly designed, the mechanics feel overpowered and the AI and design philosophy are completely inconsistent with the game but DAMN these guys knew how to draw. Sadly this is the only point where I feel i can give them any credit, everything else thus far has been so incredibly incredibly lackluster.

I uninstalled the game and deleted all its components.
The art direction is stunning but thats about the only passing mark I can give the game.
The AI is a bit wonky, the game mechanics aren't as compatible with the style of stealth game it is attempting to emulate, the story is lackluster at best, and overall the game feels like a half finished product.
I've followed the dev cycle, played the "original" game (more like an extended alpha) and feel there has been little improvement in the way of the games design since then.
It certainly looks pretty, but it runs and plays poorly.
If the game were an extended art gallery and featured nothing but extended and animated screenshots of the game than it'd honestly be a more marketable product, but sadly, it just feels like a rushed, unfinished mess.

Yes I know this is a long post but I cannot understate how disappointed I am in the game. Another terrible game with such a pretty face.

THEY SURE DO

Thanks, this actually helps a lot.
Are there even tossable distractables?

you got a bell
that sometimes works

Christ, it's Alekhine's Gun pre-patch all over again, huh?

You might enjoy shit, i know i do sometimes, and that's fine. But enjoying it doesn't mean it's good.
You claimed it was enjoyable, and i said it was not good
I get mad at people not tracing that line when recommending stuff, so stay mad for calling you out
PD Stop behaving like a cleveland nigger and calling others what you are

Just explain objective and subjective otherwise you might be falling for bait.

Here, have a thread re-railing Thief video where you can tell me how shit my gameplay is.

You know, you're entitled to your opinion, user. You think the game is shit? Well that's all well and good. However, you've never taken the time to express why you feel that way. Would you care to elaborate? What is so bad about it that you feel it is absolutely irredeemable and not worthy of a recommendation? You don't have to elaborate, I suppose, but surely you'd have put something thought into it before just coming to the conclusion that the game is shit, right?

Don't be a nigger, now. Explain yourself. At least then maybe I can see where you're coming from.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?

git gud

see

I'm playing Subsistence and am not using that camera.

Very well
The stealth felt designed in 2 stages, with the overall world in 2, too. This giving a constrasting feeling when playing, and not the good kind.

Stealth is based around the guards most obviously, who are blind/very limited around fast visuals (wont do stuff when seeing stuff if they are going very fast to process an action), deafs (almost no audio clues). This would make the enjoyment based around very simple evasion, but with the superpowers it goes around being "walk corridor, identify place of conflict, pull magic"
I somewhat understand the concept, you seek help from some evil cunt sorcerer, who in return wants pain and suffering from others, he's basically a rabbi, and gives you options to increase your power so you can kill better, and as a sidekick to be not so obvious he gives movement/stealth options (blink), but all of this could've been handled diffrently, maybe more complex for the sake of it
This breaks the fun and turns it into a very simple evasion game that turns out to be bugged as well due to guards/characters accidentantly dying/getting their shit slapped due to Bethesda coding, thus rendering the experience more frustrating
The levels are self-explanatory, while some feature decent light plays and complex forms, some of them are mere corridors, and some others are chopped off levels due to focus groups being mentally ill/kids, and not in time, rendering a confusing experience in terms of atmosphere

The game ends up being a mundane experience if played right like you mentioned, and a bizarre monster who doesnt know who it wants to be with squandered potential galore when played "right" by the developers
Basically a game only for those who have nothing else to play, and who will end up with a sour taste made much sourer due to the sweet contrast of seeing the potential and what might have been, along with the cool but undeveloped art style

I get the genre is dead and not many examples exist, but recommending Dishonored is risky, it's going to a low level for the sake of tasting something not heard
But i do apologize, for the die hard fans of the genre, which i thought i was at some point, it might be an interesting experience, with a sour taste anyways but at least something different nowadays

I think you're dumb.

Why even be reincarnated? Leave me in the dirt.

I've played the second game on the Vita.
Its not best game but its pretty decent.
Also Kaede is a qt

What about the sequel?

Did it get fixed? Didn't pay attention post release, if I can deal with Aragami maybe I'll be able to handle another mediocre stealth game.

Don't remind me that Shadow Assassin's is all we'll get for an ending.

TBH I mostly just include MGS 1 for the sake of avoiding argument, but I do think MGS 3 has genuinely good stealth all things considered.
Kojima-fags are the worst though.

So, it's not buggy now, and the rating system isn't ass, and you CAN beat the hardest difficulty, but most importantly they added a decoy you can drop in any given level to make life easier.
Still a step down from Death to Spies 1 and 2, but I'd recommend it if only for the fact that they dumped a level editor in the forums that's feature complete, and the game is honestly finished (albeit still low budget).

That was the name of the woman in Onimusha too, is it a popular name in Japan or something

What's this nonsense about dishonored being a stealth game?

It's somewhat difficult to understand what you're trying to say. However, I think this covers it.
Is that about right? Not to be a dick or anything, but if English isn't your first language, you should brush up on it a bit. Everyone makes mistakes but your post is a mess of mangled sentences. Anyway, I'm sorry but I don't agree with most of what you've said. I've never had any problems with the guards' ability to notice me when I'm being obviously loud, or their AI. Maybe I'm lucky, but their behavior has always been consistent for me. One thing I don't like is that they have the tendency to randomly look in any given direction during their patrol route, which can lead to detection even in spite of the player learning the intricacies of each and every route. Even so, it's not that big of a deal. Use quicksaves. I do agree that magic powers can very easily trivialize the game to the point that even average players can bypass the game's more interesting opportunities for pure stealth, but this isn't an issue if you simply decide to refrain from using said powers in the first place. I feel the game could've been better designed around the use of magic powers, but that just isn't the case here. Without going on too much of a tangent, I think a good example would be the Flooded District. Those enemies you must sneak past all have the same magical abilities as your character, yet they don't behave in any way that is different from normal soldiers. The devs could've given them heightened awareness, or the ability to use magical powers to aid them in their ability to detect you, but they didn't. Instead, they're just normal soldiers with a model swap. As for the level design, I feel that most of the levels are large and open ended, and they offer at least two routes to the objective, of which there may be minor sub routes that offer alternative methods of entering of exiting a building or room. It's a pretty solid game.

My gripes are simple: 1) there is no NG+ mode, so all of those fancy powers must be acquired again, which sort of diminishes player creativity and the incentive to play through more than once, and 2) the game is short. There are 10 or so levels in total, and while they're fairly large an segmented, you can get through them pretty quickly, even while going for a 100% run/Pure stealth/non-lethal.

But hey, you don't like the game. Fine, but I disagree. It's not shit. It's not the creme of the crop, but it's a solid 6/10.

Another underrated, excellent stealth game

LIKE
3RD POST NEGRO

Why do you think we've talked about it, posted videos of it and discussed it's finer balance?

...

I never got those down, apologies.
Also

In any case, back on topic, am I the only one that feels like more stuff should use a Dark Mod system of starting at 0 stealth sore and only going up as you fuck up?

...

I wish I knew, considering I don't have a Vita. Maybe one day in the future when I finish all those psp games of mine.

I'd put splinter cell 1 on that list too, what do you guys think? Shouldnt it be on there because it has a couple of forced combat sections or did you guys think the level design was too weak? I never played pandora tomorrow so I cant comment on that but I heard it has a lot more missions in broad daylight which is neat I guess

Pfft what's the title for that one?
I may already have it.

You have reloaded a quicksave, right?

The single biggest problem with Dishonored's stealth is that it's optional. In a compelling stealth game, like Thief 1 or Styx, getting caught usually means death or the necessity of escape - combat just isn't an option. (Styx does this even better than Thief, IMO).

In Dishonored, you get caught, no biggie - you can just kill your way out.

So there's no real tension or suspense, the stealth isn't compelling. You're not hiding from danger, you're hiding for shits and giggles or in order to spare the lives of your enemies.

Dark Messiah suffered from this too. Its core stealth mechanics - audibility and light/dark visibility - were essentially the same as Thief's, but the fact that even with a stealth build you could reasonably fuck your enemies' shit up meant the stealth was not particularly compelling. The presence of some mandatory combat also served to remind the player of their power and undercut any potential stealth tension.

Dishonored could have been a good stealth game even with its shitty mechanics if all it did was stealth and getting caught meant death.

Isn't that half the concept of Hitman? A combination of both major stealth types?

I get that some people really dislike Dishonored and they are entitled to that since it's not a classical stealth game at all and is more fun to be Murder Wizard instead, but let's not post bullshit about the game, user.

No. Either you didn't play the game or you didn't care one bit while playing it. It's the first time I hear someone talking about the Outsider like this, especially how off the mark you are.

You don't seek him, he seeks you because he thinks you might be interesting. He doesn't want pain and suffering either, he wants interesting stuff to happen at best and unknown reasons at worst. He's not even a good character but you don't need to paint him worse than he already is.

Bethesda was the publisher, Arkane Studios were the ones that coded the game. Please don't start shitting on games just because you see a familiar name around the box or you'll end up doing silly shit like blaming a publisher for the code.

Give an example. Because even the very first level in the prison actually has extra routes on pipes above you and every other level is quite open with several routes to take that aren't that obvious. Level design really wasn't a problem with Dishonored.

Don't. Dishonored is indeed a stealth game but stealth serves an auxiliary role in it. It goes for a completely different experience than Thief and it's understandable that someone wouldn't like it if they were expecting something similar to that.
But saying it's bad because of that is plain wrong when there's a lot of neat shit the game did and it's goal, being a game about a supernatural assassin, not a thief, is achieved quite well.

Let's not make this argument, please. A non-lethal run has you using precisely one move (the choke) and sleep darts, no other tool or move will help without killing someone, especially if you don't use any power as well.

This would be akin to playing Thief without shooting any arrow but rope ones, possible but not very fun.
In fact, the DLC answers this with the extra tools that Daude gets for non-lethal playing, for instance.

And that's a problem because the game never ramps up the difficulty. Their idea of combat being viable is so you could mix things up and play it your way, with stealth simply being a more efficient and calm way to play the game.

Now, the first parts of the game on the higher difficulties can severely fuck you up since you'll easily get a lot of guards mobbing on you and some will keep you busy in melee while others will take shots that hurt like a truck. Trying to murder them all only works if you're quite decent at combat.

But as the game progresses and you get stronger, your enemies don't, resulting in easier combat as the game progresses, even when they introduce roughly harder enemies like the music box guys.

The Flooded Districts was probably meant to be the start of it, with Daud's men being upgraded guards with magical powers, and from that point onward you'd face increasingly more powerfull enemies with more magical powers and attacks.
But this never happens and you even go back to the same boring guards in the last level, where they have to respawn infinitely to present some form of chalenge. Even the tallboys become trivial once you understand how they work.

When you look back at Dishonored, you can find many problems but all of them have the same origin: no interesting enemies for mid\late game.
Hopefully, they seem to be working on that for Dishonored 2 and considering they had already solved some of it with Daud's campaign, I'm optimist for it.

IIRC AC Brotherhood tried that, with multiplayer being players trying to assassinate each other but their models were identical to filler NPCs in a town. So you had to search, tail and study different NPCs to see if they did anything player like. Once you found the right one, you go in for the kill. Seemed like an interesting mechanic but the MP died due to no community

Thief one is boring.

How is Alekhine's Gun OP?

After patches I would recommend it above or next to, say, Hitman Contracts, but to be quite honest it's beneath every other social game, since it's heavily nerfed from the Commandos game it was meant to be, and is instead just "More Hitman, with a suit only mode, a tranq gun and an acoustic decoy you can drop to lure enemies.

The game's strongest level is when it's an open arena, like Red Dragon, but it ends up failing during a few of the more linear levels like Snake Borne.
The sole source of defense I can give it is the level editor they released for it for free on the forums. Crazy Ruskis.

Just play Death to Spies 1 and 2 if you can, or Any games from the Hitman trilogy beforehand.

So how about that Invisible Inc?

Yeah, but DM isn't a purely stealth game, it's just one of the options.

And that's why a game that tries to be two things or more at once will never be a good stealth game. A good stealth experience can't coexist with the option of combat.

So, give up on ghosting.
It really only opens up when you hit higher dififculties, because the entire game is on a per-mission time limit that ends up forcing you to weigh stealing resources to sneak better against making a serious risk.
Better than it sounds, but the RNG is definitely a serious factor.

I think the RNG really counts when it comes to gear, but I've managed to really work with what I'm given regardless.

If I have a complaint with the game it's that it could be so, so much more. Perhaps more floors per level or expanding on more content.
Another complaint would be that Internationale and Banks are the best team and best waifus

Actually if I would have another complaint it's that Financial Suites and Vaults are unbalanced as fuck. Financial suits are pretty much a deathwish in days 4 and 5.

wut?
Thief 1 and 2 get tons or FM's created every year with multiple competitions based around themes or design challenges, some of them incredibly well done.

Played 1, the PSP game and 2. At first I didn't like it but it definitely grew on me, though I feel like the scope of the games were restrained by budget perhaps? A lot faster than Tenchu, the PSP game is the same as the Tenchu fan-level games and has some crazy level design and puzzles, for example: one level has you protect a truck while it crosses a route made entirely of traps and flanked by never ending drops, enemies with cannons stand on pillars and squats of land across the gaps. The player has to sneak kill the enemies by grappling from place to place in the right order before they get a chance to shoot, while at the same time keeping the truck alive as it's constantly damaged by traps by accurately throwing health grenades at it as it moves along.

I never really used it much in one but the crafting in 2 can be used to create some incredibly useful/hilarious things if abused, though the base system is needlessly complex and really needs a guide to be used properly.

I will say that Shinobido did the combat system better than Tenchu, which makes the annoying and completely unnecessary mandatory boss fights that both series pointlessly refuse to give up far less irritating, and free up your inventory to take things that aren't solely used to cheese the boss. Seriously, my biggest problem with Tenchu was that it rewards the player for never using the combat system and then throws mandatory boss fights at you, pretty much every mission I'd take grenades, mines and stickybombs with no room for anything else.

That's probably for the best considering how Shadow Assassins managed to fuck up both the gameplay and the story. Honestly, Tenchu is one of the few series I'd WANT to see a reboot of over a sequel.

These FM's charts are pretty out old and are missing a few big releases, unfortunately I'm too lazy to update them and the only one I recall the name of right now is The Chalice, but if you're looking for the newer stuff go to codex's Thief FM's thread or just straight to ttlg.

MGS3 is overrated.

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Thief 1 and 2 are practically comparable to the Dark Mod, amigo.
Thief shouldn't hold up an entire genre on it's own in terms of user made content.

Is English your first language? I had no trouble understanding what he was saying, what the fuck?

is the new shitman any good? I heard it came out pretty strong with the Paris and Sapienza missions, but its becoming more of a dissapointment every month since.

I haven't heard anything bad, and I've heard it's great at, you know, being Hitman.
But it isn't done and after Ground Zeroes I'm not about to pay a game forward after seeing amazing early levels.

Lord knows it'll be better than Absolution.

It's not Absolutshit, but its not blood money.

nothing will ever be blood money

This.
This is why I want to see user content like the Dark Mod for social stealth.
We need more shit here than Hitman and Death to Spies.

Quick question… Which version of Shadow Assassins would be better to emulate on PC? Wii or PSP?
Funfact: Almost every post in this thread has the word "shadow" if you ctrl+f

Double funfact: If you have a Windows Theme that turns white backgrounds to black all spoiler text is automatically revealed w/o needing to mouse hover

While it's debatable whether the game is up to par with Blood Money in terms of gameplay, the attention to detail is pretty great.
"Hey you! Get back here!"
"We've got an intruder here. White guy, bald, black suit, about 6 feet tall."
"Alright listen up. This place isn't safe, I need everyone to evacuate the area now."

The amount of dialogue recorded in the game, and this is just coming from a passive glance, is disturbing and extensive for random npc's.

Do you have any idea how to get a clean kill on the lawyer guy in the Bangkok mission? I can get to the musician just fine, but I'm having serious trouble with the other target and I dont want to have to turn Opportunities on.

No clue, the vast majority of my knowledge is from secondhand observation.

I heard Ironside is coming back? Is there any truth to this?

Has anybody else played through the Thomas Porter series on Dark Mod?
I'm curious how many other people think "The Transaction" is bullshit.

hard to remember levels by name only

more info pls

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what game?

8ch in a nutshell

Did the webm trigger you?

NOLF?

if only this was a good game, a good stealth game, a good shooter, a good anything. Instead it's a remnant of yet another one of Monolith's half baked great ideas executed absolutely horrendously on an engine history is best off forgetting.

It's NOLF and it's not worth the time, anyone curious about it.

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kinda unrelated but speaking of thief
why the fuck does thief 2 run like shit on my toaster? thief 1 ran flawlessly at silky smooth stable 60 fps, but with 2 I get wobbly 30-40 fps and it's annoying as fuck, does anyone have a solution? also yes I've patched it with tafferpatcher and still nothing

That's weird; I know tafferpatcher has a bunch of optional graphics mods that can fuck with some FM's, but I've never heard of it frame-dropping, it should run pretty much identically to Dark Project/Gold.

If assume you're using the GoG version that comes with NewDark; if not you should be using that, but if Thief 1 ran fine without then I don't know what difference it would make.

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The one where during the middle of a deal the Lich Queen attacks you?

Are you talking shit about No one lives forever? Look user it had it's problems, but it was still a good game

Why was it difficult for you, user?

I had not much problems with that mission.

could be that it was one of the missions I finished by abusing bunnyhopping before it got patched

playing the dark mod makes me feel old, because some of the missions there I completed years ago

I don't like feeling old ;_;

I don't know, I tried both with and without tafferpatcher and it ran basically the same, choppy as fuck except with tafferpatcher it looked better. Also, to answer your question, no, it's the steam version for both of them but, seen how they're the same fucking engine and have the same graphics, why the fuck does it make a difference? It should be running just like thief 1. It's so annoying I'm on the verge of dropping it.

try googling it

there is always a solution

I was aiming for all loot, low stealth score.
Lots of puddles that amplify noise, low amount of water arrows against moving, large amounts of guards with torches in areas where you need to spend a certain amount just to kill the Lich and grab at least one or two pieces of loot.

Just a very, very strict level all around for someone actually aiming for stealth, not to mention the lightning revealing you if you're standing in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Oh I see.

I much more prefer the Ironman ghost style.
I never reload (sometimes mantling fucks me over big time, I am not doing youtube videos, so there I reload).
I also, but this is not a failure state, try to never knockout guards or use equipment, but sometimes I of course end up using it.

I see why your playstyle would cause you so much trouble with the mission.

you really should try ironman, it really increases the tension

I'm aware, but I'm famous in the community specifically for being the only guy doing stealth score 0 all loot ghost runs.

Famous is a strong word, known would be the right one, I don't want to look like an asshole over Dark Mod.

I probably know you, because I am subscribed to a lot of dark mod youtube channels. except fenpheonix, poor guy, has the personality of pewdiepie, but he just focuses on thief and dark mod, so no view

It's weird, because I usually comment on their youtube channels, while the actual community just talks about it when you post in the dark mod forum.

I know what you mean, you insecure little bitchboy.

In that case I figure you've earned a heads up, I'm probably going to cover Thieves, The Builder's Influence and then a Reputation to Uphold.

From what I can tell the bugs involved in Penny Dreadful 2 won't be solved anytime soon (my route seems to result in loot straight up being unfrobbable).

If you know who I am, look on my channel page, I link to my Steam account where you're free to add me for more direct discussion.

I had this issue too, same with System Shock 2. I think I disabled AA in cam_ext.cfg. Surely there's some option there you can mess around with to make the game run better.

I did, look it up on the internet before asking, in fact it's been about 2 weeks since the last time I played it and I tried each and every solution I could find including this but all to no avail. I guess I'll just have to play it that way.

how about instead of giving up, you just google some more?

There is always a solution. Always!

Do you rike new Hitman?

Well, naturally, if I didn't it'd be listed iron thief.

Bumping so all the threads don't continue to be triple a game coverage and senseless complaining.

Is that real? I really want it to be

What about non-3d stealth games? Jagged Alliance 2 can be played with some aspects of stealth

Or Commandos series for sure

Commandos 2 actually encouraged it with better ratings if you aren't spotted.

Any game, where is more inclined on letting you kill Thant ghost is a shit game

See

The scoring system leans towards pushing you into slowly pissing off and terrifying guards before killing them and hiding the body, but that doesn't mean you can't play the entire game in a minimalist, pacifist style.

Stealth is a tool, you should know this by now. But tools aren't always made with a single objective in mind.
Stealth games that focus on assassinations (as a ninja game should be) will have you use Stealth to gain the upper hand over enemies that are much stronger than you.
Mark of the Ninja did this quite well as you can't even kill guards with regular combat and they'll fuck you up faster than guards fucked Garret when he showed up.

No, it doesn't. Slipping past a guard also gives you a score boost with "Avoided" and when you finish the level, every guard you spared will give you points as well and even more than just killing them.

That only happens if you spare all of them however, so you either meticulously find and murder them all of you must never strike a single guard, making the game much harder to top score either way.
I never had a problem geting all the 3 score seals at the end of a mission even when going full non-lethal.

Yeah, the amount of score bonus given for leaving every guard unharmed is dependent on level.
You get points for avoided, but ultimately you get way, way more points for effectively "farming" guards of points.
I would know, there's a guide on the matter on Steam actively emphasizing that you shouldn't play the game this way, and an entire video emphasizing the point.

Speaking of thief and unstable frame rate, thief 1 and 2 ran at a silky smooth 60 fps… until any text came up from weapons to items ect. then it dropped 30 to 40 fps and I still have no idea why it does that…

Not the soundtrack but yes, the final mission is in Hokkaido