Guys, I want off this wild ride please
Le Pen about to win in France
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Nice gulagposting friend.
here, have a bump!
I'm really feeling it
shit meme tbh I don't even know where it came from
What is so horrible about EU? At some point we need to start moving away form nation-states towards something larger. Common labor regulation will only intensify progress that is leading to Pan-European trade unions and other leftist organizations.
Embrace the accelerationism
ahahaha what the fuck OP, you may be right. inb4 global depression and the 1936 re-up, plus drones. Time for anarcho-mad-maxism.
-It is absolutely not meant to be a cozy European club by/for European people with its own regulations for movement of goods and people, and even if it was it is now only on paper.
-It completely screwed up countries with lesser economies. Since the Greek debt crisis began in 2009, Greece has been pummelled with austerity measures by the Troika and it only got worse.
-It's undemocratic, and Brexit was a breakthrough because tons of countries tried to get out before and were held back. Ireland had to vote until they "got it right", same with Portugal, then the treaty of Nice that got apposed by France and the Netherlands that brought about the treaty of Lisbon, and finally once the Italian PM suggested a referendum and he got sacked. I don't need to start on Greece. The EU prefers to make decisions behind closed doors, beyond the reach of the public. Its contempt for democracy was perhaps made most explicit in the wake of the financial crash.
-It screws over Africa (lesser point but nonetheless).
-It helped destabilize Ukraine and piss off Putin without reason.
-It's unnecessary (the fuck is the flag and currency and army and anthem and court of justice for?).
-Jean-Claude Juncker became EC president one year after being more or less forced to resign from his position as president of Luxembourg, following a spying scandal involving the country’s intelligence service. In any country this would usually be considered the point at which your political career dies a quiet death. The EU keeps has-been politicians in work and has always a look out for them if they feel lonely or like they aren't paid enough.
-The flag is fucking hideous I live in Munich and they hang fucking everywhere, I feel like I will get a seizure one day.
Completely disagree. A group of this many states that has almost nothing incommon and has fought wars for the most part will not cooperate, at least not under an EU model.
But they eventually will, since the markets demand centralization when it comes to regulations.
Besides, pissing off Putin and attacking that false state called Russian Federation is only a good thing. We need to harm that regime to get communist opposition in Russia into rise.
While in the process they will hate each others guts and create extra tension. Not everything is about the markets. Quite frankly if the EU countries now were to join the EFTA it would work.
Pocking the bear with a stick. Do you seriously believe the whimsical army consistent of a number of forcibly merged states would hold power against a superpower?
This guy gets it
Lel, Zyuganov would probably be like Putin with Soviet aesthetics.
You're implying that this just won't lead to even further into degregulation and Capitalism taking advantage of everything.
At best, this is accelerationism. Nothing more.
This is going to be worse than when Greece pretended it was going to go full Socialist.
I agree with rest of your assessments(ignoring the common currency and EU-army part).
Russian military is a joke, Georgian war not to mention one in Ukraine prove that their military is at best 3rd rate one.
least likely thing to happen.
the French election takes two rounds, Le Pen needs >50% of the vote to get elected.
both the right and the left will rally against her as usual and she'll get shit.
not at all Capitalism
Yet there is no European army yet and I honestly don't know how one is supposed to look like (not to speak about it being a horrible idea). Putin will just invade Europe and bring the Eurasian dream Dugin dreams of.
The currency is another thing. I will not go into that.
If you want to take a European Politician on their word, the standard for all of this can be seen in Greece.
I find no reason to believe this will be any better, if not worse. More of the same shit.
Tell people they're being radical while shoving down deregulation and the market going nuts with further freedom.
No party elected will ever give you freedom. They will not change the world, especially now
Take your meds, son.
Are you a politician?
Where is the recognition that when the Greeks recently elected an even more leftist and socialist government, it sped up the path to collapse? Its economy will continue to shrink, and the European Central Bank will just continue to "borrow" it the money it stole from their citizen. But Greece is not socialist, which is hilarious when conservatives blame that as the cause why it went bankrupt.
I don't long for ultimate freedom I will never get. I just want this horrible Union killed. And I'm feeling damn good knowing it will happen either way because of how unstable the EU is.
Just memeing fam, see
From a logistics, financial, strategic point of view, nothing that comes from this will give more power to the worker. It is all bullshit, you have to understand.
This will still, help nobody.
Politics is composed of two things, Cynical Liars, and Liars who think they're doing the right thing. The right thing is money.
The wrong thing is the working class. No matter how many promises made, they will not help the working class, despite all their promises.
The golden rule, as corny as it may sounds, when it comes to politicians running for highest office, is simple.
Trust No One.
Not even Holla Forums is this hooked.
I see your point. I even agree with it to some extend. Still once we get rid of this can of worms, we can worry about the next.
I remember what Britain/and or France was like before the EU, I'm voting Leave.
My god, this represents the fall of the immortal institution, the European Union, I never thought I would see this day in my lifetime.
While it is a mere shadow of the Red Army, Russian military is much more experienced than any of the armies in EU. What's more is that, if Russia were to invade a country, it would most certainly be one of the Baltics, Latvia being the most likely. Considering Trump's attitudes on NATO, the rise of eurosceptisism and NATO countries complete lack of action in Ukraine, I'd say they wouldn't risk escalated tensions just for a couple of Balt nations. Furthermore, since EU does not have a combined army (this was brought up, and consequently rejected many times), there are many redundancies in any possible combined effort from EU armies which limit effectiveness.
TL;DR those numbers mean very little in geopolitical sense
There is no getting rid of the can of worms. I've heard this said so many times in my life.
It seems pessimistic. But it's true. You can't get rid of Late Capitalist corruption by a vote. You're trading it all in, worse, better, it doesn't matter.
A vote means as much as participation into which elite will blast your ass more, leading to less ass blasting, or just continue the ass blasting.
There are no choices.
I disagree. See
Le Pen isn't going to win. France has two rounds of elections and all the different Socialists parties usually rally around to keep FN out of national government.
Fuck off. I don't want to live in a standardized world. Isolationism rules!
And yes that inclues the fuckin' USSR and their policies of forcing everybody to speak russian.
You're stupid for a number of reasons but if you think there is any stopping standardization in capitalism then I've got bad news for you bud
>>>/reddit/ is that way
Nationalism is the first step to defeat global capitalism.
Internationalists are useful idiots to the globalist capitalist elites
See, the thing is, the union's so unstable but the idea so valuable it's madness to want it dead as opposed to "fix this shit." The only thing Europe is more shit as than EU is Europe separately.
How so? prove it.
What idea? That we all should live as European neighbors in peace and harmony? Once again, that's not what the EU was intended to be. But I really would like to see the idea you're talking about.
So your point is that only a club of unelected best-before politicians is keeping Europe to go at it's throats? Is it the "the EU prevents war only in Europe though" argument? While being a bully to everyone both economically and politically? I don't get your reasoning here.
keeping Europe from going at it's throats*
I'm with you here, but consider that while you can compare the EU to the USSR until the cows come home, there is a thing the EU lacks that the SU had: common culture. Or in the sense that Russia, Georgia and Kazakhstan have much more in common culturally than say slavic states and nordic states. In the CCCP the majority of nations didn't each other, at least not as excessively as it's happening in the EU (maybe not hate, but the divide is wider).
lmao hell no she won't
That's literally the point behind EU, in its modern form. Originally it was just an economic pact but it has become much more than that.
why do you consider the EU something good?
is it not just a corrupt system like the Kremlin or SED?
That's very nice but Russia has 4000 nukes and the EU (France and UK) has like 100 total.
Nukes are all that matter. And Russia has them everywhere.
the EU started off as a coal cartel then its main ideologues in Western Europe made it look like The European Project, stealing cultural references from an actual, century old leftist idea of United Europe while being the complete opposite of this ideal. they are bound to crack under the weigth of this paradox.
Greece's situation was not handled optimally. But no small part of the crisis was their own fault - I'd trust fucking Merkel to run Greek economy better than Greeks themselves.
Even if it did (what are you referring to? Exploitative worker conditions?) The EU has taken steps in the right direction - hell, it now pays the Somalian police force's salaries.
The Ukrainians destabilized Ukraine. And Europe should not cater to Poutine's expansionist wet dream. Appeasement was tried in the 30s and it failed miserably.
What do you mean unnecessary? It has benefited European economies immensely, has prevented any wars between member states leading to the longest period of peace in European history, and fostered a culture of forward-minded and international people, which is vital for a leftist victory. European unity can only be a good thing, IF the problems plaguing the EU are sorted out. The flag, anthem etc are all part of this.
Agreed, fucker needs to go.
No less hideous than most other flags. I quite like it.
The only problem is all those new missile shields between Russia and France. Thaad I think it's called. Until Russia gets they're new sites in Kaliningrad up and running they are severely hampered. I think Putin talked about it in one of his somewhat recent speeches. Apparently the Americans have also developed nuclear warheads that fit into cruise missiles, transforming every destroyer or missile pad into a nuclear capable launch site. The Chinese are still pissed off about the thaad sites the us put up in South Korea.
The real danger isn't in who has more nukes, but if or when the US feels secure enough to use theirs. Especially with corpocrats in power. There's nothing more infuriating than an expensive weapon that's never used.
Isn't the average travel time for a ballistic missile like 8 minutes? Didn't Hillary say something during one of the debates about US missiles striking back in four? I thought I heard that she let something slip about launch or retaliation time or something and some generals were pissed.
Their situation literally wasn't the fault of the Greeks. Their shitty politicians went by their backs with Goldman Sachs ACD conspired to defraud lending institutions to take all these loans and the people are now slaves because of it.
Greece had a spending pattern that was incompatible with the size of it's economy and a horribly corrupt bureaucracy. It's not the EU's fault that they fucked up.
It literally isn't and never was (maybe in the back of the head of one of the founding fathers of the EEC, for a small second) and especially isn't now. Only the most naive of the people in the parliament think of the EU as the cozy club for bringing their European friends together.
But let's assume you were right for the sake of the argument - then is it really a justifiable reason for the EU to exist? Why does it matter? Why do we need a fucking Union to remind ourselves that we are an ideological group? What's the purpose of the flag and anthem and court? What is there an army for (not yet of course)?
Why can't we respect our diversity (no pun) on our own? The EU is completely useless.
The Greeks are not lazy people. This is not the reason their economy crumbled. It might have failed for numerous reasons, but Germany should have stood the fuck out of there and let them leave when they asked to.
Sorta. There are at least three ways in which EU policies affect Africa’s ability to address its agricultural and food challenges: tariff escalation; technological innovation and food export preferences. Economically Africa is punished by EU tariff barriers for doing a better job (if it is). For example - In 2014 Africa earned nearly $2.4 billion from the crop. Germany, a leading processor, earned about $3.8 billion from coffee re-exports.
And the EU was rooting for chaos the whole time through. This was literally provocation.
What expansionist wet dream?? Where does this claim fucking come from
Correction: it has benefited lesser rich counties who do fuck all, the other ones (Frane-Britain-Germany) do perfect on their own and will do even better once the EU is done (see Britain).
Stopped reading there. How naive are you? Because the protagonists had Ukrainian passports? Inform yourself about the so-called Maidan and the forces behind it.
Don't pretend the EU didn't madly benefit from it during and afterwards.
continued because not quite done here
I'm probably repeating myself but yes the ideals of the EU all sound wonderful. They are not intended by the EU though. Why not try EFTA or - you know - just live together as sovereign nations.
You must be one of these people finding opposing colours beautiful. I tell you right now when the flag was first pitched they had like 1000 examples but they HAD to pic the most hideous one. Look it up.
There are a lot of much better flags out there.
But this is not my fight to fight here.
No, while it is certainly complicit.
Please explain to me how the levels of government spending could be sustained.
Its how Germany wanted them to run their economy, it was designed that way. It was the only way they would be allowed into the EU. To destroy their productive capacity and run their economy based on loans.
The video goes into more detail about it.
You don't know much about the history of the EU. It was France that wanted Greece in the EU and more importantly in this case, the eurozone, to strengthen the position of French monetary policy as opposed to Germany.
won't happen, larger neoliberal forces are too powerful. you need an international coordinated effort.
sure, fuck EU, I totally agree. but we need to build a new union on leftist foundation. exit and entry.
Its was more reasons than just that, also I'm not going to go over every single detail that was already explained in the video, and that point is irrelevant to how they were told to run their economy and how it played a factor in fucking them over.
Another big factor for the economic destruction of Greece is the euro as that currency was valued way to highly for their exports. Switching to the expensive euro from the drachma cause the exports of Greece to decrease dramatically and for many countries such as Greece EU membership and the euro go hand in hand.
There are many countries in the EU who like Greece are now stuck with a currency that is valued at a much higher rate than their old ones and therefore causing significant reduction to the money coming into them and thus bring them into economic failure and painful EU enforced austerity. However nations such as Germany have seen the opposite happens as the value of the Euro is much lower than the deutsche mark, this has caused German imports to become more competitive and increase in value. It is in the interest of Germany to keep countries like Greece, Spain and Italy under the thumb of the Euro for they fuel German economic success and the only thing they get in return is demonization and painful austerity
Don't forget that when Greece tried to abandon the euro the ruling party Syriza which was prior an anti-austerity party kicked out Yanis, stabbed the people of Greece in the back and bowed down to the EU's demands leading Greece further into the clutches of austerity.
Perhaps the video is you know, wrong..
The point is highly relevant because it was France that wanted the EU to have a more directionist approach and looser monetary policy, this is why Italy and Greece were brought into the eurozone. Germany opposed the policy that later lead to the eurocrisis.
Because France is part of the same power block in the eurozone as Greece, Varoufakis and syriza skip over this fact because it contradicts with the narrative of Germany and it's austerity as the boogeyman.
The first part is correct but it can't be blamed on Germany, the euro was the price France demanded for the German reunification. EU membership and the euro don't necessarily go hand in hand. Greece wanted the euro because it allowed them to present themselves as being in a better financial position so they could get cheap loans, allowing them a level of state spending that it's economy can't sustain.
What would have been the alternative, becoming the Venezuela of Europe?
I am pretty sure that the euro is also terrible for France as it has suffered economic problems and austerity as a result of that overvalued currency.
There is not many countries like Germany in the EU which gain financially due to the euro. Those countries tend to benefit tremendously and just let the worse off countries wallow in austerity and endless debt.
Tired as fuck but feel like making a reply to this later.
So Fillon or Juppe?
Due to the very high value of the deutschmark nearly any other country in europe would end up with an overvalued currency if placed in a currency union with Germany. Even France and Netherlands lose out in such an arrangement.
The German's love for austerity and their pushing of extreme crippling austerity on other nations in the EU is very well known and you even have notable neo-liberals taken aback by how extreme and ruthless they are.
This following article shows that not even the French are safe from the iron grasp of the German Austerity masters, some interesting parts are below this link.
Even the neo-liberal president of the USA Obama at times has been concerned about the German imposed Austerity which is rather common for EU nations to face.
Even the soon to be ousted Italian prime minister has some choice comments on this subject.
>"Stressing austerity means destroying Europe,” Renzi told an audience of policy experts at the Council on Foreign Relations. ”Which is the only country which receives an advantage from this strategy? The one which exports the most: Germany.”
Overall the EU primarily economically benefits Germany at a cost of other members by shackling the vast majority to a single currency, and economically there are few countries other than Germany which benefit from this. One could even consider the EU in it’s current form a system of German economic imperialism which exports horrid austerity while shackling other nations to a currency which reduces economic competitiveness of others while increasing that of German exports.
On another note, while you do state that it is possible to be an EU member and not have the Euro only the UK (which is leaving) and denmark are part of an opt out clause, euro currency adoption is compulsory for all other EU members by default once they have achieved the necessary conditions.
Since only UK and Denmark have been able to opt-out of this part, it does seem to be something which is rare to happen. Which has lead to countries such as Sweden deliberately not meeting the conditions so as to prevent being strapped down into this terrible quagmire.
One can conclude that it is rare to be able to strike such opt-out options of the Euro which UK and Denmark benefited from, if such a case was not so why are nations like Sweden making use of such loop holes instead of just them just negotiating an opt-out like their Scandinavian brothers in Denmark did?
If anything forcing Greece to stay in the eurozone is leading to their financial failure, if they were allowed to leave the eurozone and go back to the drachma Greek exports will start being a lot more competitive again and breath some life into their dying economy.
Also the only humanitarian thing to do at this point would be for germany to forgive Greece's debt just like many other nations did for Germany’s own massive prior debt instead of heartlessly crushing them with austerity and keeping them in an economic union in which they will never be able to recover.
This is a terrible meme. Two years ago Russia could've easily conquered all of Ukraine, or at least take Donbass. It did nothing of the sort. For what possible purpose would it attack the Baltics, who are NATO and EU members, whose populations are less loyal, who are being watched by the entire world because of that British meme video?
A much more likely scenario is Russia intervening into another Azerbaijani-Armenian conflict or sponsoring ethnic conflict in some Central Asian post-Soviet state like Kazakhstan.
A-are you the legendary avatarfag from the old /gg/ threads?
Pretty ironic considering Germany's post-WW2 "social market economy" and trade agreements with other countries was part of the plan to keep their potential fascism in check and legitimize the German State on new grounds.
I doubt he is, the avatarfag from those old /gg/ threads was a Nazifag
I agree with Zizek that the truly subversive thing for Greece to do would be to stay in the EU and demand changing it. Instead we usually think only of the capitulation/exit alternative, already resigning to impotence in either case.