THEIR BACK

Yes.

Wait were they the guys that had the video game molecule shit where everything was made up of small sphere?

What they even scamming for though? Like how do they make money? Ad revenue?

Reported for underage

What was their fucking problem?

Investors.

It's THEY'RE

THEY ARE

YOU FUCKING MONGOLIAN!!!!

What a crock of fucking shit.

Are they autistic?

BTW: "This sort of technology" is not new in any way. It has been in commercial use since, at least, the early 90's.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_automatic_virtual_environment

nice thread

check these

Too good to be true, there's gotta be some catch to this

Oh, they also did not make the first game for CAVEs. I played Quake 2 in one, in 2005 or 2006.

Even worse, government grants

So is it fake or what? You literally cannot have "unlimited detail", and even their videos show that they're not really doing that. Everyone in computer graphics has known for years that voxel rendering is more efficient than polygon graphics. If that really is real time voxel model deformation then colour me impressed.

You guys think they could be lying? We need some /agdg/ fags to get on this.

It's a classic compression scam. The concept goes all the way back to the mid 70's, early 80's.
Have an article from 2007 with some examples:

compressionscams.blogspot.de/

guys its possible to have all these small atoms in the game with no frame drops because it's all in the SOFTWARE not the HARDWARE ok so this means that we have UNLIMITED PROCESSING POWER ok as we all know the GPU can only be used to process POLYGONS and so we had to make OUR OWN way of processing ATOMS that DOESN'T USE THE GPU it's just magic ok just give us your money I swear this will be REVOLUTIONARY theres absolutely NO WAY that you could fake any of these screenshots or videos ok

Fucking anyone who has any knowledge about hardware or software knows that these people are fucking con men.

Yeah, it's like with every other scam.
They always reappear after some time, before
disappearing again for "fixing some small problems".

Like that cold fusion guy.

Of course it's fake, these idiots got called out years ago when they first tried this scam, now they're trying again but riding the whole VR bandwagon this time.

That's got to be the most clickbaity thumbnail for a video I've ever seen. At least they admitted it was nothing like what Star Trek showed early in the video. Still, kind of ridiculous that someone who knows as little about programming as I do can smell the fetid stench of a scam from this far away.

...

ok can someone explain this to a computer retard and how is this scam

1. It doesn’t seem possible that modern hardware can process everything they claim is being processed
2. They’ve released zero hard evidence of their claims and it has been years since they’ve made them.
3. Building a world is one thing; having moving shadows and an actual game on top of it is another.

Its revolutionary new tech that noone wants to believe is real. Right now everyone is still resisting their innovation, but what they've essentially done is make an alternative to the polygon-based 3d graphics that we've been dependent on for the last twenty years. I think most of the shit they're getting is because they are industry outsiders; they don't belong to an established company so all the journos are turning against them, but their tech has already progressed to a point that other VR companies can only dream of.

These are perhaps the world's most prolific and public con artists. Just listen to the way this shill speaks, he almost believes himself. Impressive.

Or that CubeWorld guy.
Or that Infinity Quest for Earth guy.
Or that Outerra Anteworld guy.
Or that Star Citizen guy.

Aint these the guys who found out there was more money in seriousbusiness voxelization for LIDAR and stuff and quit gaming?

...

None of those people have their own chain of 3d entertainment installations fam. This thread reeks of contrarian tryhards who desperately want to fit in with the cool kids on the block.

A sucker really is born every minute.

That cold fusion guy doesn't have his own chain of 3d entertainment installations either.
Neither does Euclideon. All they have is a couple of clever marketeers with some low-level computer graphics skill.
There is no magic voxel engine, they've never "released" anything, they've never "demonstrated" anything.

All they've done is run an occasional youtube video full of lies and then vanish for years.

Did you watch you video at all or do you just not care about being contradicted by facts?

...

Yes? What about their back?

If you actually trust a single thing that conmen say in their own convideo, you're beyond hope.

How much? How many jpegs?

from what they've said and others have said it sounds like they're getting it from both, unless all the times "investors" has been used they miss-used it as goverment grants

wait, so this holodeck thing is gonna be out in kangaroo land right?
can't we just get some aussies to go and check it out?

As opposed to what you trust?

Pic is of the physical location of their Holoverse center where you can see their technology in action.

Whatever you kids say, fact of the matter is that they've worked hard the last four years and have something to show for it. Stay perpetually asshurt along with the rest of the gaming journos.

DELETE THIS

Are those hologram rooms fake?

Southport is a shit heap.

The most insulting thing about this is that they want us to believe that they've just been
producing fuck all for years for no one, selling nothing, licensing no software, working with no one at all.

Supposedly it's been open for a while now.
Go check it out and see if it's real. If it's as impressive as they claim, you'd think aussies would have heard of it by now.

What they claim to have innovated has been in existence since the 90s. Hologram theme park shit like they've had in Disneyworld for fucking ever, but now they're putting you in your own little booth with shit latency and unidirectional projection so your shadows fuck everything up. Whoopdedoo.

It's a gimmick at best, and it doesn't use the tech they claim it does - and that's all assuming that the place exists at all. Most likely they just paid for a little office so it shows up on internet maps, but it's always closed.

Yup.

Shit I remember them.
Didn't it come out that they tried to scam someone into financing them and then fucked off with the money though?

Hey there, paid shill.

ITS A FUCKING OFFICE WORKS YOU GOOD GOY.

What he says makes no mathematical sense at all, too.
Bull
Fucking
Shit

If he wants people to believe his claims, he needs to release a public demo that everybody can download and benchmark themselves. But he won't do that, because that would show everybody what a fraud he is.

Oh man, they just won't give up. Get back to me when I can fuck those atoms.

Jesus Christ. I hate people that correct spelling but it's fucking necessary to laugh at you right now.

more like you're the goy

BTFO
T
F
O

Face it, you don't want to admit that technology is progressing because you're entering your thirties and you still haven't accomplished anything with your life.

Oh yeah, almost forgot

So, what you're telling me is that the technology they claimed to have invented, and the footage they showed.. was actually from a completely different business that has nothing to do with Euclidean or their preposterous claims.

As several anons already pointed out, the shit they kept showing is tech that has existed for decades.

stop projecting your insecurities user, just leave them be

I'm sure he has done more with his life and having a "career" of being an online shill for some tech scam ;)

holy shit that projection tho

No actually it doesn't matter if you just sample them from cache instead of processing every single one of them to see if it shows up on the screen.

...

Calm down, calm down, all I did was provide proof that these guys have a physical location where they demo their technology. They don't need to come here and convince some two thousand anons that they're the real deal, they've already convinced everyone they need to and have all the funding they need and they continue their work. In a few years we'll be seeing this technology be applied more and more until it is as ubiquitous as standard polygons are now, regardless of how many people now doubt. Oh, ye of little faith…

h8ers gonna h8.

...

dude, I am not going to read your long ass excuse, but shill out man, seriously, you wrote that line from heart. I wish to have holodecks, but I don't want to support scams. they're just abusing that this tech is no mainstream so they can pull stuff off their asses.

yeah nig, whatever mane

That's not Euclidean's office, nignog.

Alright, I'll spoonfeed you desperate babies one last time, but if you really want to know you'll have to look yourself.

holoverse.com.au/

Thats the holoverse website. If you go to Contact Us> investors, you'll see the Euclideon pitch video that triggers you so badly, convincingly tying the two together from Holoverse's end.

yeah, whatever you say bro

You only need one carrot for greentext, newfriend.

Dangnabit, I spoonfed again!

These fucks better deliver. If real, that shit will revolutionize vidya graphics.

The catch is hundreds of gigabytes per game. This moves most of the resource usage to the memory side of the computer balance, as opposed to things being rendered on the fly, they just fetch pre determined states.

People who say this is fake are not actual computer people.

Now, because nobody ever works on this sort of technology, implementing things like animation is not a trivial thing and it is why they have not released the engine to be used in video games yet.

...

udserver.euclideon.com/demo/html5_viewer.html

Allow me to lay this out for you.

This is some scam aussie bullshit, and all they've got to their name is this one faggot making poorly edited youtube videos out of the same couple minutes of footage of a magical graphics tech, and some bad powerpoint presentations.

They've done a terribly good job of not addressing the complaints they've initially received.
The claim of a static render time might be true, since they're doing a form of raycasting rather than rasterizing triangles. The framerate is static, but terrible if you want to do it at any reasonable resolution. Just look at the video, silky smooth 15 FPS.
BUT
The original complaint was about the memory footprint of point clouds, and how unfit that kind of data is for actual games. There's likely no normal information in their "laser scanned data", so all the lighting is static. Look at their awful demos, there's barely any shading. Even if they packed normal data into their atoms (+ about 64 bytes per atom), how would you do shadows and reflections? More raytracing? Things would quickly get out of hand that way. No transparency either, by the way.

They haven't gotten around their animation problem yet either, they can transform a whole model but they can't deform parts of it. Their current workaround for animation is to just do it frame by frame, like sprites or old vertex animated games. This is why their animation looks so PSX-tier. That snail seems to have some deformation going on, but I suspect it's just lerping between different atom positions instead of using a skeleton, which puts it at the same quality as vertex animation, except it takes an order of magnitude more computing power to use.

If there was anything better than polygons, you'd see VFX use it first. And offline CG is still using triangles and quads, despite near unlimited processing power. There are good reasons for that. There are things you could do to improve the current state of 3D graphics, this isn't one of them.

One day they'll come up with a revolutionary way to compress all their point cloud data, by wrapping it as static images around simplified geometric shapes, transforming those then recreating the point cloud in dedicated hardware and shading only what the screen sees… whoa, wait a second.

...

I don't have Jewgold chrome. How is it?

No wonder you think this is a scam, you don't even know about Google Maps.

How did you even find this website?

It's exactly like they say it is, but in low resolution and with detail popping. It's not different from this actually so I have to doubt it's not a generic point cloud renderer and a real thing.
potree.org/demo/potree_2014.12.30/examples/matterhorn.html

When you're reduced to arguing with your critics, as opposed to merely proving your case, you discredit yourself.

I'll be damned.

Them having an office gives them some credibility imo, scams usually are just run out of some jewish neckbeard's basement.

Some shit that really ticks me off about this video, things they said in previous videos, and shit repeated in the comments:
Hard drives are FUCKING SLOW you DUMB FUCKS
So goddamn slow that people invented FUCKING RAM to not have to get shit off of there as often. AND RAM IS SLOW TOO. So they invented caches. Most of the time wasted in game programming is FUCKING CACHE MISSES, not "expensive operations" like square roots tha college teachers always warn you about.
Also guess what. HARD DRIVE LIMIT IS STILL A FUCKING LIMIT. Not FUCKING UNLIMITED.
GPUs are indeed fast at triangles. Because they're fucking fast at vector math.
GUESS WHAT A POINT IN 3D SPACE IS, SPOILER FUCKFACE IT'S A FUCKING VECTOR
So transforming those points for animations would still be quicker on hardware. Not to mention lighting, even for point data you want to compute vectors between the viewer, the point, and the light. Bitcoins aren't polygons, yet you still want a GPU to mine them because THEY'RE VERSATILE THINGS.
YOU REFUSE TO SHOW YOUR TECHNOLOGY YOU FUCKING CANCEROUS BITCHES
Whining that the industry worked on 3D together for 20 years doesn't ring a bell about that co-operation only working BECAUSE DEVELOPERS SHARED THEIR IDEAS.
OPEN SOURCE COLLABORATION AND RESEARCH PAPERS YOU FUCKING NIGGERS
These fucks just act like smarmy bitches to create outrage, then act all surprised and weak when people call them fake. It's like Zoe Quinn turned into a company. Sage because you shouldn't give them attention.

While this is true, all it means is that there is someone dumb enough to believe their poorly constructed presentations. Remember: 4 years and jack shit to show for it.

There's plenty of tech companies that get millions from overeager investors who think they've got the next facebook on their hands.

...

...

100MB/S might be slow for polygon graphics, that needs to be rendered in real time, but it might not be for graphics that are not really being rendered, just fetched.

So it's not fake but it's so inefficient as compared to polygonal rendering that it's functionally useless for gaming or even simple CG animation. Which means it's still bullshit.

←

I think the fact that they have no new footage or implementation of their magic software after 4 years is a far bigger indicator of fake and gayness.

what's the cube-square law?
why aren't there 50 foot giant ants out there?

if somebody makes a voxel engine that culls non-visible voxels they've reinvented the wheel we call "draw polygons"

I thought you were going to talk about that australian company that supposedly found a way to make a graphics engine that has an infinite level of detail. All of the demos have no animation but nonetheless, infinite polygons or detail or something. I'm quite certain Notch and John Carmack both commented on the demonstrations. Notch said something optimistic (and was shat on for his vacations at this time) whereas Carmack expressed doubt.

They need some Carmack level of genius to get their shit together and last I heard the smartest creatures in australia were kangaroos and they don't code.

Reddit is that way.

That is literally what it is. They are saying they fixed the bugs.

He said it was a scam and that it wasn't real, but notch knows fuck all about anything. He stole a voxel engine, that doesn't give him the qualifications to say something isn't real.

...

No user, rendering things is pretty fast. Drawing fractal patterns of a mesh like the elephant they show isn't hard with polygons. It's the fucking fetching you're talking about that's slow.

Too bad they're saying their tech works on the average Joe's computer, and average Joes do not have RAMDISKS. Also note the part where I said RAM IS STILL FUCKING SLOW and cache misses arethe cause of most of the idle time on CPUs and GPUs both.

Minecraft is not voxels, just boxes. And no it's not the same.

Polygons have to be rendered "forward" - polygons cast rays to the camera, so light rays are flowing into it, same way as it works IRL. A lot of shit is optimized away through clever math but that's the idea. Voxels can (and should) be rendered "reverse" - camera casts ray in every direction it needs graphics at, and if it hits anything it shows up on the screen. Rays coming from camera into world, so it's reverse. And is usually extremely fast compared to polygon graphics of similar complexity. The redeeming feature of polygons is that they can have textures thus improving detail, whereas a voxel is a singular unit.

Consider you have a scene with million by million grid with all sorts of shit in it, and you zoomed out so the whole thing fits on the screen. With polygon graphics you'll have to process all 1 000 000 000 000 objects in the viewport. With voxel graphics you'll only do as many samples as there are pixels on your monitor, maybe more if you do supersampling but that's the idea. Hence with voxels rendering speed will not suffer from extreme amounts of shit on the screen.

Yea but it's still way fucking faster than a hard drive. Anyway it was a jab at how mustards would own a server rack with 256 gigs of RAM in it so they can dedicate half of it to some random shit just so it loads faster than from SSD.

Well, their innovative technology is the fast fetching, so there you go.

WOW WHOAH

The words of a computer illiterate shitposter.

They're doing the equivalent of adding a depth buffer to Google Street View data and trying to build an engine from that.

...

Don't forget to mention that they got away with some fat bucks from the Australian government.

This.
A map the size of that doesn't look like complete shit was well over 450 GB (just for the fucking assets). The dot cloud technology used to compress the scan wasn't efficient enough to come up with anything usable within practical limits, one asset they were showing off proudly was a church (very nice looking, but with static lighting) and that single building alone was over 120gb.
Shit is fucked.

Hahahaha, they are still so far behind (5 to 10 years). The college I am at has two of theses rooms. One just has screens on four sides and the other has full six sides covered. So congrats to them, they spent this whole time "solving" already solved problems. Nothing they have done is new or even innovative. The technology has been around for at least the last 15 years. Nothing has changed about the fundamental issue. There is no way to make a consumer version of this. Plenty of companies use tech similar to this. Hell some gun ranges have this, where you are surrounded by screens and have a IR gun with CO2 to simulate recoil. What a fucking waste of time. This shit has been in malls forever.

So, what are the system requirements for this shit?

Why aren't they releasing a playable demo?

These don't look like pre-renders, but they won't explain how any of this shit works.

The room with screens isn't what they are showing off here, m80…

Remember the words of James Klass.

You can only redtext from a newline

The voxel engine is real and used for 3D scanned models of architecture and construction projects.

Fuck me if I know whether it's suitable for games though. Even if the only potential use is voxels for the environment and polygons for anything with complex motion it is at least something I want to see tried because even just that would be interesting as fuck.

You enjoying those $5000 .jpg images user?

If it's so good I just want a playable demo.

I can't tell if your a shill or a gullible dumbass.

Interesting analysis user. With what you say here does point to them making a breakthrough but for them it's only one obstacale they have beaten and doing the lighting, shading, deforming models are other massive issues themselves. Could take them decades to do.

If their holoverse rooms are just a hoax it should be easy to find out and call them out. If not I'd say it will be at least a decade before anyone can call how far working with voxels using this type of sorting algorithm cam get you. If computer graphics experts all over the world started pouring over this approach they would find solutions to these problems, it's as simple as that, and if enough solutions can be found to make it compete with polygons is impossible to tell before it has been tried.

Okay, let's look at some numbers:
64×10×100 = 64, 000 voxels per meter
(64,000 x 1000km)^2 = 4096,000, 000,000 voxels per square km

Let's guess the z-ceiling is say, 100 meters

4096,000,000,000 x 100 = 409, 600,000,000,000

Oh look at that, we're at four hundred and nine point six TRILLION voxels, now let's multiply that number by, say, one kilobyte of data for each voxels colour:

409,600,000,000,000 x 1024 bytes = 419,430,400,000,000,000 bytes of necessary data.

How much is that? 390,625,000 terabytes, if I didn't fuck up.

Storage media does not exist which could hold such an amount. This is 100% scam.

Someone on YouTube:

...

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about and should stop posting.

Yeah, it's just 8 bytes, multiplied by 3, so 24 bytes. That still leaves 409,600,000,000,000 * 24 = 9,830,400,000,000,000 bytes or 9.83 petabytes.
Naive part of this is assuming it's a cubic map containing data where there are no atoms, so perhaps about 80% of that is empty space, but 20% of 9.8PB is still about 2PB, and that's just pure colour data.

But user, their atoms are magic and require no power and also people have been mean to them even though they are brilliant innovators like Galileo. They are progressives of the current year while those other polygon people are evil mean grumpy old white men stuck in the past.

It's just a fucking voxel engine. It's not even a good one at that, as there are more impressive voxel engines like video related out there.

Not calling it real, but they could be using indexed colours. Which would make sense since you'd just create other tones by mixing ratios of other colours, like in print.

Outerra isn't a scam tho, shit's fucking MAGIC

You assume the data is stored in a 3D array where all the 99.9999 % percent of empty is fully allocated, which would be a completely retarded way of storing data. You also ignore the fact that the island in the demonstration is built using repeating segments and models, and just like in every computer game in existence if you want to reuse an enemy 20,000 times during the game you don't need to store 20,000 separate copies of the model on the hard drive you fucking idiot. You also ignore the compression of the voxel data.

So yeah, just stop posting already. You have absolutely no fucking clue.

youtube.com/watch?v=Irf-HJ4fBls#t=7m5s

You know when dozens of incredibly smart computer scientists around the world are calling something bullshit, maybe just maybe you ought to listen.

Atomontage looks fucking dope. Been following it for years, and unlike Euclideon what it shows is mathematically possible.

...

Shit I remember the atoms and I remembered finding it so absurd that no one did this before.
The (((industry))) won't let you not need the newest GPU though.
You're here to burn your house forever.

I can see how this could work

A bunch of tiny atoms could be easier to compress maybe?

You could have the atomic resolution worse at farther distances and it would not effect LOD for example because the objects are too far anyways.

Small pixels would also work much better in theory with ray casting than polygons

Also for you newfags they did release a web based demo of one of their geometric scans

They just need to release a real world demo that fully takes advantage of this technology already

...

No, I explicitly said the other user made that mistake, and said 80% would be empty. Learn to read, nigger. And it sure as fuck isn't 99.999%.
You have to store it that much if you want to prove your engine has "unlimited power." You can do the same thig with a fucking witted-style raytracer, a BVH, and normal fucking polygons. Not to mention the similarly fuckhuge slab of real terrain they show in at "only 1.6 TB," does that also use repeated assets?
You mean the data they have to search through at extremely high speeds? You want to tell me it not only renders using considerably too many points, but also compresses and decompresses those points 60 times a second because else it would once again need petabytes of storage space? And you want to tell others they don't have a clue?

Not quite the same, cars can be animated by meshes rotating. The wheels are floating cylinders underneath the car. Atomontage does have softbody physics, which would not be terribly hard to turn into a skeletal animation system.

its not fair man

Is Carmack still stuck making VR headsets for Kikebook?

Literally just polarized 3D in three screens.

I think he leads the Oculus project or some shit

Its a voxel engine, its slow, and it is low resolution voxels. Still, I think its impressive considering it features laser scans of the real world. They just need someone to optimize their shit

Yeah, my bad.

That's what you get if you assume there will be an average of 100 surfaces intersecting every vertical column of voxels with the assumed height of 100 meters, and given what we see on that island that seems very generous to me.

Well yeah, if you have to be anal about the absolute meaning of words I can understand you getting annoyed. The rest of the world understands the point of the superlative.

Show a running demonstration with the same draw distance and comparable size and complexity as some of these lidar scans.

Of course not, since it is a scan of a real thing. Each identical house with its identical garden is a separate section that has to be stored separately because the scan will not return identical data for any of them. In a game you would use one model and a couple of recolours for all the plots of the same variation, and it would naturally take only fraction of the space. Same for roads, the number of different trees you need, poles etc. etc.

It's not my claim, and loading and working on compressed assets in real time is something games have been doing from pretty much the beginning due to limitations in the storage medium. All it comes down to is whether their algorithm and data structure can deliver what they promise, and given that geodata companies that have done government projects actually use and ship Euclideon software for use with fuckhuge databases I guess it does. I would assume they were allowed to test the software before they agreed to redistribute it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclideon#Geoverse_Suite

Why the fuck would you want to re-compress it? Do you have any idea what the fuck you are talking about?

It seems you missed a pretty key part of that other user's calculations back in
First of all, 4 trillion multiplied by 100 is still 4 trillion according to him. Secondly, he multiplies it by only 100, assuming there's only one, one atom thick, layer of atoms. Those meters should again be multiplied by 64 * 10 * 100. And in case you didn't notice, the island isn't a thin layer of stuff, it's quite a few meters deep (let's say 20), as you can see at youtu.be/00gAbgBu8R4?t=2m3s
So what, the ground alone is (64,000 * 1000km)^2 * (64,000 * 20) = 5.2 sextillion. Even your 99.999% guess, at 8 bits per colour channel (which is of course suboptimal) is still exabytes large. It'd have to be 99.99999999999% empty to get to a TB. The numbers keep growing the more I look at it, good job.
Superlative? They claim you can throw any amount of data at it and it will run the same. They keep on repeating that, "the only limit is hard drive size." And that claim was also specifically for small cheap laptops, mind you. So I should be able to plug in a theoretical 10 petabyte HDD with data, and run it in real time as per their own claims.
You decompress compressed textures as you load them into memory. Something that you can't do with this amount of data of course.
Yeah, my bad. You just overwrite the decompressed information you have in memory with new decompressed data as you move through the dataset, you don't have to re-compress it.

Also note, you seem to assume my problem lies with what they show and have, which isn't anything extremely groundbreaking. My problem lies with what they claim to have, which is impossible. They're lying about their product to seem more impressive. And they do it with one of the smarmiest fucking voiceovers to boot, just to elicit more outrage and thus attention. Which is why I already said, stop bumping and stop giving them attention.

Lets explain in a nutshell why this shit will never work

Take a 2D plane, and tell it to make a dot on screen, it takes maybe 4 bits for an x + y posistion

Now move to a 3D plain, its now 6 bits for X + Y + Z

Now say you want to make 64 dots to make a line, you've now used 384 bits for one line

Or, you write a function to make a line, to write the function to make points between two lines we'll say its, well, 10 bits

So now to make that same line in a 3D space that is 64 pixels wide, its taken 16 bits

16 bits vs 384

Now you want to make a square appear on screen between 4 points, so instead of a line function, you write a fill function, that fill function takes, oh, 20 bits

So now to make a square on screen its 44 bits, vs if you were still using points 1.47MB

Now lets make it more complicated, we add a color function. The color function takes 10 bits

So to draw that cube now takes 54 bits because its all one color

The point system is now at 6.55MB because each pixel has to have a set color

Now instead you write a function to display a picture instead of a color, say 32bits for the function, and 70bits for the image

So the final size for a flat 2d square image to appear in a 3D world is 126bits, vs 6.55MB for the 2D point square in a 3D plane that looks the

And this is why this will never work in a "Game" outside of something like minecraft

Does this mean I can finally wrestle Billy Herrington and become a greco-roman wrestler?

In short, each rock in that scene is probably around 100mb, tree's being 500ish etc

That's why they repeat everything, repeating a model is cheap and requires no more resources than a duplication call

Also, nothing moves, STILL, and they promised this shit would move TEN YEARS AGO

Give me a situation where the distinction between their, they're, and there is vitally important to the sentence, and you can't figure out which "they're" the person is talking about from content.

maybe they have some huge hardrives and crazy specs to make that stuff work

it'd probably be restricted to theme parks and really rich people for decades, and holodeck games would largely, if not mostly, be rail shooters

Okay here

NOW LEARN ENGLISH OR GET OFF THE ENGLISH SPEAKING SIDE OF THE INTERNET

Irrelevant. That has nothing to do with whether the 99.999 % figure is accurate, which is what you are quoting and responding to.

>And in case you didn't notice, the island isn't a thin layer of stuff, it's quite a few meters deep (let's say 20), as you can see at youtu.be/00gAbgBu8R4?t=2m3s
Again you do not understand how things work. You only need to define visible surfaces, not the space between them. If the ground surface is made up of pebbles each column of voxels will on average see close to two voxels per pebble (top and bottom surface). If the layer is five pebbles deep that's 10 voxels. If there are no tree's above and no rooms below, as seems to be the case for most off the surface of the island, those 10 voxels are all the data present in that 6.4 million voxels high column, which means 99,9999 % empty space. Add say 5 blades of grass at most and that's 10 voxels more.

One voxel of data per visible surface intersecting that column of voxels, that is the general rule. The only exception to this are surfaces that are either vertical or near vertical but very uneven, which is why I assume a higher average. Let me put that into perspective for you though. Assume you have a cube of 20 meters with all sides visible. It's footprint will be 400 square meters. If you average the number of visible voxels of the entire cube over the footprint of the cube how many visible voxels do you get per column of voxels the shape occupies? Take a guess. The answer is 6 fucking voxels because it's a fucking cube and each column is 6.4 million voxels high. Work out that percentage.

Even if you assume an average of 100,000 visible voxels per column for the entire map, which is absolutely ridiculous, you still get 98 % empty space which is nowhere fucking near to 80 %.

Yes, and? Your screen is still a fixed resolution. You still only need to find a set number of values. If you are looking at a certain direction at point x you can know you do not need to search any data structure representing the coordinates behind it. If something is far away you don't need to look at sub mm data but can search the segments representing the model at say 10 m resolution. The larger the database the lower the percentage of it that you actually need to search. That is why the scaling works the way it does.

If the fucking things works for point clouds several terabyte in size with a recommendation of a measly2 gigabyte RAM, and I'll remind you again that actual companies who need to actual fucking work do use it for this very purpose, I'm pretty sure a performance computer can handle a few petabyte. How does that, in the case of ordinary people playing games, not live up to the promise of as much detail as you have hard drive space? Is there any super autist here who even has more than a dozen terabyte of storage?

Why? When you need a texture you decompress that texture. You don't decompress every single one of them. Why would you not chose to decompress only the sections of point cloud data you need to search?

kek

This is best parody of retarded posts I've seen in a while.

The specs for their geodata suite says "Run On A BASIC Laptop: No need for special hardware or super-computers."

There are plenty of other programmers who are just as capable and even more skilled than Carmack. There is hope.

He's the CTO of Oculus.

But from context I know that he's saying they are.
There is literally no point to use them unless your ;^) an idiot.

For example, if I said "they have they're own bounce house" you would know I'm not saying they are the bounce house, of course unless you have a room temperature iq.

Just like chunks in minecraft.
A minecraft world isn't 3 million terabytes

Holy shit. I haven't seen that image since ~2011.

Okay, imagine you have a 64*64 2d space.
A single binary integer determines a "pixel"s place on the grid.
64*64 = 4096
4096 variations can be represented with 12 bits (with 000000000000 = pixel 1)
Now, if you divided that grid into 4 smaller 16*16 grids you would get this:
16*16 = 256
256 can be represented with 8 bits (with 00000000 = 1) and 2 extra bits per assignment of grid (00 = grid one, 01 = grid two, 10 = grid 3, 11 = grid 4)
So, you can save around 2 bits per pixel, which on a 64*64 scale is (49152-40960) 8192 bits saved. Now, this may not sound like a lot, but that's almost a 20% reduction in storage. Scale the grid up and make the divisions smaller and you'll have less to store per pixel.
(Although this will mean that you would need more powerful hardware, but I think that our hardware right now is leaps and bounds more advanced than our current system of storage.)

...

I'll believe it when I see it in an actual, publicly available game, and I'm not getting my hopes up. I'd be a little more interested if there were at least some signs it wasn't just a fancy voxel engine - say, physics or animations.

...

Couldn't they just make simplified shapes and use procgen to determine what these "atoms" would look like in close detail? It's not like that game we all know and love downloads 18 quintillion planets with the game itself.

...

Scam artists gonna scam.

That does look like a back.

You do know game assets are compressed for storage, and then decompressed to be used right?

You're talking about running a compressed file, which is pretty much impossible

Yes, you could probably pack one of these point cloud models massively down for storage, but to have it in active use you have to decompress it

Obviously OP was just referring to the back of the person standing in the thumbnail

I remember another hoaxy unlimited detail voxel engine thingy but that must have been 10 years ago.

Democrito sure thought of a cool name. I would name my kid Atom

Just looks like they put projectors up in a room and had a guy put a vr headset on.

These are the same dudes

UNLIMITED DETAIL

and 98% of 5 sextillion is still too much, but that's "irellevant" according to you.
UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF DATA AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE HDD SPACE
You can zoom out and oversee the whole dataset. Each pixel will only hit one voxel per very dispersed part of the dataset, but to find it you first have to go through the dataset in some way. A bigger set only becomes easier to seach by adding more leaves in the search tree. More leaves however start to take more and more time per leaf. There is always a limit to how much growth your optimisation can support. These guys claim infinity. Infinity isn't possible.
Explicitly goes against things they've said in the past.
So they compress it in multiple parts? You do know how compression works right? 1 archive of everything is smaller than 10 archives of 10 parts. Now apply that to unlimited sets of data. You can't compress it.
kek
At 10 fps, yeah.

You won't, they just upload a new video each year to get outrage so they can get more grants, while delivering the minimal amount of "proof" of progress they think they can get away with.

youtube.com/watch?v=F6MaZE9cU_c

Welp. Confirmed for shill.

18 QUINTILLION POLYGONS

codersnotes.com/notes/euclideon-explained/

Thank you, this is finally a rebuttal that makes sense to someone who doesn't know much about how this is supposed to work.

Has this guy been here all day? I've seen this shit being brought up in at least 3 threads today.

The scam just keeps going and going and going. It's kind of amazing that they've kept at this scam for this long and nobody's actually managed to shut them down yet.

if only we could harness aussie shitposting and turn it into energy , we would have

UNLIMITED POWER

...

I FUCKING LIVE ONLY AN HR AWAY FROM THIS SHIT
going on the weekend to check this shit out HOLY SHIT

Be sure to come back here an post about whether it's all snake oil or not (and give evidence)

You should probably just end your pathetic existence.

I think he meant the PS3

so these scammers are still getting funded by aus taxes aren't they

photos from a phone good enough?
ill add in the ticket stubb if they got shit like that.
ill see if i can go this weekend.

Have that and a description of what exactly you saw, like did you actually see "infinite detail," or a laggy barely functional mess, or a completely scripted demo rendered ahead of time.

The question here is who are they trying to scam?
The technology isn't for commercial use. They just making ludicrous claims.

Irrelevant. My assertion was correct despite you having a fit about it.

Sure, as long as you have the space, but then why are you whining about things being too large above? If you make a 500 terabyte game the engine is claimed to support it, but why the fuck would anyone want to? What is the problem with reusing models like any sane person would? When did they ever claim you could make a game with as large non-repeating segments as you want and fit it on a floppy?

Enough with the autism already. Of course infinite data would take infinite time to gather or generate. That is not what the superlative is meant to convey and the rest of the planet can understand that.

Where?

Well shit, maybe that's why they don't do it that way, retard. They are not going for the smallest possible archives, they are going for the smallest ones that can still be used. Show me where they have claimed it is impossible to compress point cloud data for permanent storage more than what they already do in their searchable database format or shut the fuck up.

30 fps, and that's because there is no fucking need for a professional geodata suite to push more as it only leads to more HDD reads for no practical gain.

That's why they make a video launching their holoverse center, right? Because if it's a scam people going there totally won't expose them, right?

Yes. It's especially amazing that the companies who use their software think they are looking at their databases when in reality the screens are blank.

Video, and no, it isn't. Multi million dollar companies using and selling their software for their terabyte databases isn't proof it works so nothing you say or post will convince them otherwise.

I personally want to see how far they've gotten though so please post them anyway.

Vid related.

Yeah same dudes.

Again with the lies.
You can't have unlimited detail, even if they made a new rendering system.

each atom uses up memory, you don't have unlimited memory, so you can't have unlimited detail.

unless

everything is procedural. that's literally the only way to get unlimited detail.

unless they made some way to map 3D objects to procedural algorithms, something akin to processing raster pictures to vector graphics, but for 3D, they can't have unlimited detail.

I can believe plenty of what they say, but they shouldn't say obvious lies, it really hurts their credibility

kk ill see if their ok with me filming me and my mate messing around.
hopefully theyll be cool with it
if not i sneak some pics.
ill make a thread if this ones dead by sunday night/monday

I want to believe. Unfortunately, I'll believe it when I see it running on my machine.
I understand the math, and they way they're supposedly making the tech is pretty clever. Sampling data from a random access device.

Some problems I can foresee from using this particular technology:
Shadow complexity.
Real-time collision calculations.
Animation quality.
If they can deliver what they promises, Nvidia and AMD will be in a very bad place all of a sudden.

no reason to not keep using polygons for that

That's fair enough.

Judging from demo animation is difficult for them as it looks like the voxel counterpart to bad sprite animation. The snail looks good but it's the single object on screen. Then again they are a tech company so I don't know if that proves anything. It could be that they just suck at it.

Personally I don't expect it will replace polygons. Even if this approach to voxels delivers everything they say I see it as extremely unlikely that there are not hundreds of cases where polygons are far, far more simple and efficient to use.

If the animation is inherently expensive I'm really interested in seeing voxels for fixed geometry and polygons for everything that moves. It would be like the good old days of pre-rendered backgrounds but with environments you can actually look around in.

Oh my god, you read my mind

Let's assume that there is no question, and that this is 100% fake. That this is a huge elaborate ruse and every bit and atom is just complete bullshit. Why would they go through all this? What's their endgame? What would they accomplish if people believed their lie?

First thing that comes to mind is that they're snake oil salesmen and they're looking for either consumers or developers to buy into this so that these atom guys get money. This is so unique though, so wouldn't anyone able to put forth an investment come to them and say "show us what you got"? And when they're forced to show something, then what? Sure, they can show some bullshit but when it comes to actually using this stuff, what then? Maybe they're trying to get developers in on their ruse so they can scrounge up shekels together under the credibility of the developer? The consumer can't be fooled though. Unless the atom guys and this developer release a gimped but still mostly functional use of this "technology" and say that computers are too weak to use it on a wider, game sized scale because then they can still print UNLIMITED DETAIL on the box or steam page or whatever the fuck.

They say they want to release these arcade things which look cool but what happens when they don't deliver? What's their strategy here?

probably money laundering. They artificially inflate the value of their company by keeping records from investors while obscuring this through a smokescreen of artificial hype

The technology is real though, since they did release demos. I think retards are just mad because its kind of a let down and people got themselves overhyped for what is actually just a voxel engine

So are they releasing anything? I don't get this scam. They scammed the Australian government, but they aren't asking for more money?

If they actually did make this, they should have had some type of demo by now aside from completely reliable videos. Yet at the same time if it was a scam, they aren't really "selling" anything except for fake fame. Which I guess would be enough for some people.

Welp.

Wow just like real life

Wow, great troll guise

youtube.com/watch?v=wsefl5F4ToU#t=1m55s

It's Solar Powered Roadways all over again.

I forgot how annoying this faggot could be. Constantly belittling his viewers and trying to pass off anyone remotely sceptical as meanies, telling them to "listen to the smart man" as if the viewers are a group of retarded children who need to hear out of context quotes to believe their lying teacher while never releasing anything beyond videos or carefully-controlled demos on their own render farms. Maybe this is all intentional and their videos are designed to piss off people in the graphics industry so they can cry about the mean bullies and get more government grants.

Except the software you can buy from big geo data companies, but whatever.

Fuck off with your fucking scam

Everyone should see this incredible technological breakthrough

UNLIMITED DETAIL

Who is it that is desperate to deny the engine is being used by engineering companies right now?

Your dial up connection is already covered here:

Or that No Man's Sky guy

I dun now y ur so upset?

I wonder what do they even fucking do inside their offices

I blame common core for this

Reminds me of some German kiddo who scammed and the national "youth scientist" competition by pretending streaming HD video over a flip-phone's GSM data connection (which was just good enough for text messaging back then) and won the competition.
He successfully scammed all of them including the jury full of "real scientists" with university degrees and even the national TV (who should know for that they needed big ass satellite uplinks before broadband Internet was a thing).
He could keep his price money, because it was his "accomplishment" that he was smart enough for scamming everybody…

lol

This scam is still going?

the trouble is that there is a small burden of work at play here

either you take on the burden of remembering how to fucking talk correctly like you had a decent education, or the burden is on your reader to interpret your actual intended meaning. Because when I read shit like the op's post, there IS a brief moment where my brain reacts with something like "what about their back?" before being forced to recognize the mistake and realize that the OP is an idiot.

In truth it is a small burden for both parties involved, but that kind of makes it worse when you conclude that it's not important to make that minuscule effort to talk like someone who reads books every now and then. It's kind of like seeing someone drop a small piece of trash because they know SOMEONE will pick it up. Other people don't appreciate having to work even a little bit harder to save your inconsiderate ass a tiny amount of energy.

This timelime is pretty great, keep it going. Holographic waifu rooms will become real in our life time.

You technically can, but it should rather be named "arbitrary detail" than unlimited detail.

Basically, voxels are quite good at breaking down meshes in more manageable parts, so you could prepare a "macro" mesh and then define arbitrary levels of detail at every zoom or proximity level. It's the same type of LOD we have been doing all these years, but on steroids.

That said, you can't hold all this data on RAM, because it's too heavy. You need to stream contents from disk, and that's way too slow for real time rendering

Let me be pedantic for a moment, but GPU are technically good at parallel workloads in general, which is what 3D rendering with polygons is. With dots as well. The rest of what you said is true tho.

How can anyone question the unlimited detail?

You're a fucking idiot if you want waifus rendered with Euclideon's awful voxel system when there's already better voxel engines and you can already render them accurately with polygons.

yeah i'm sure a finite thing can accomodate the infinite
also the guy is just lying. see: medical scans which use the tech he claims to have created (and they still require a high end PC, now imagine taking these dots and connecting them and mapping a texture to them so the player doesn't see pic related) . In fact something very similar to the way point clouds work is voxels, the point clouds are actually just tiny voxels and voxels are really just very low resolution point clouds made to be cubes
point clouds are the future but it'll both take a long time and it won't lower performance requirements, it'll increase them

Is todd howard jim morrison's cousin?

fuck you he isn't dead ;_;
twitter.com/wol_lay

i hate this country

user you're truly blessed

We've been over this. What they promise it that they can render as much detail as you can throw at them. It's up to you to store it.

This is where you are wrong. The reason they still use high end PCs is because they don't use tech they have created. If they did they could stream much denser clouds from drive on an ordinary laptop, as companies who use their geo data software do.

Thanks for telling everyone what they already knew and have been discussing from the start of the thread.

Wrong. Check out their Geoverse software or, oh I don't know, read the fucking thread.

Alas these heathens do not believe in dubs.

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Seriously though when will they fix their site

Did you use an inflammatory bait headline?

Holy shit I thought they were laughed off the face of the earth

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Its a feature, not a bug.

HOLY SHIT EUCLIDEON DETECTED.

Nope, I kinda knew that was why nothing came of it.