1. Shoot them in the streets 2. Shoot them in the streets
We need to have some sort of presence on Twitter. This means something like 40 to 100 accounts who can concentrate on a single target at a time. (YES, THIS REQUIRES SOME SORT OF BRIGADE.) The basic idea behind our strategy should be monopolizing the discussion at critical times. To do this we have to drown out the identity-politics posters. To avoid wasting time in arguments, we should have a set of images (see pics for example) to reply to targets in rapid succession.
This is what I have to start with. I can expand on the idpol approach more if some anons want me to.
I'll post what I think our approach to Holla Forums and the aut-right should be next.
We can't compete with liberals and alt-rights living with their parents. We can't shitpost all day like they can.
What's wrong with those pictures, my most level-headed and rational friend?
theres only 2 things that matter when it comes to spreading an ideology: numbers and willingness to be autistic, loud, and generally unlikable
Sounds rather autismal tbqh. Why do we need to stoop down to their level?
I've never had a twitter but I'm willing to shitpost there for this cause
1. Just promise them that no matter what they're into or what they are, nobody will give a shit under communism.
2. Extensive despooking and education. A larger presence on YouTube and Twitter. Promotion, promotion, promotion - get the word out and build online communities.
We should be vocal and prominent, but I don't think we should be aiming for the obnoxious presence utilized by the spastics of Holla Forums and tumblr. Being calm, concise, and straightforward can transform a shitflinging contest into something that can properly appeal to anyone from the outside looking in. The power from being the reasonable, firm side of an argument can't be understated.
I guess that mostly rules out Twitter? Hard to have an argument when you're limited to 140 chars unless you use images.
see our struggle is more complex than Holla Forums's
Holla Forums is outright nazi and openly racist, sexist, xenophobic etc.
leftypol is vehemently against all of these things, it's just that we recognise building a whole political movement around them only diagnoses a small part of the issue, and that the broader one is capitalism.
it's a tougher message to communicate.
Regarding the aut-right:
I have made two observations: 1) Attacking Holla Forums DIRECTLY is NOT IDEAL. The reason why Holla Forums has a large presence on 4chan is because Holla Forums controls other boards (like Holla Forums and /int/). Holla Forums as a board is difficult (but not impossible, as evidenced by the few Holla Forums threads) to raid. Instead of raiding Holla Forums, if we managed to control all of the other boards on 4chan, Holla Forums would become effectively a containment board. There is a strong Holla Forums-ish presence on /his/ and there is a sizeable number of left-sympathetic posters on /r9k/. I suggest we start there. Our movements should be initially to respond to right-wing discussion in similar fashion to idpol on Twitter, and not making propaganda threads. The idea is to overwhelm at critical points of discussion, not to have dedicated shitposters. This is a better strategy imo given our current size.
2) The success of the right on YouTube. This might be bigger fish to fry than (1). Holla Forums downvotes videos into oblivion and uses false-flag accounts to subvert discussion. We need to do the same thing, especially with false-flagging. Once again, our presence has to be occasional, but focused. Our major limitation is in numbers.
The idea is to have short bursts of raiding at important times. (For example, immediately after a Twitter post.) If we do this right, we control what direction the discussion goes. Most people don't look past the first 40 or so replies to a Twitter post.
see my post
Propaganda belongs in the bin.
IDPOL PEOPLE CAN ONLY DEFEATED BY GIVING THEMSELVES ENOUGH ROPE TO HANG THEMSELVES WITH
Propaganda makes great wallpapers
I VOTED FOR BERNIE YOU ABSOLUTE PORKY
THE ONLY GOOD PART OF IDPOL IS GAY RIGHTS, EVERYONE IN AMERICA LOVES FAGS RIGHT NOW, THEY DONT CARE ABOUT MUH DARKIES AND WIMMENZ
Our strategies need to be different for Holla Forums and idpol. For Holla Forums, we need to cut off their access to other boards first. This is a simpler task because we have more support on boards like /his/, /r9k/, /a/, than Holla Forums. When a thread goes off-topic into right-wing territory, we should be there to sage/shitpost. Stirnerposting and general edginess are effective methods against the Holla Forumsack.
But when combating idpol, it's important not to come off as Holla Forums is what I'm saying.
Even more important not to come off as CTR.
It is done with an agenda, so yes.
I agree. Liberals, on the other hand, have the opposite response to edginess. Therefore our strategy for liberals on Twitter and reddit should be biased towards infographics and normie-relatable memes. (see attached)
CTR is over, finished.
Doesn't mean that other organizations won't behave similarly. Don't act like them.
Yes. Search the archive for communist and anti-capitalist posts if you don't believe me.
similarly, wagecuck threads pop up on Holla Forums too neetsocs love their autismbux
Is this satire
r9k is one of the most leftist boards out there
I need to sleep soon, but I have been giving this some thought and I think there are indeed ways we can significantly improve our ground game.
One way they're so effective at down-voting is simply down to mobilization. What we really need is subscription based systems, maybe on Twitter, on which we can have a few people dedicated to scouring whatever these reactionary cockgobblers shit out, deciding what is worth prioritising, and then attack it head on. That way, we would be able to mobilize almost instantaneously.
We need to start learning to fight dirty.
The alt-right are all idpol, but not all idpol is alt-right.
We should share twitter accounts.
Follow me @weebleft
I truly believe part of what our "groundgame" needs to be is using the language of whoever we're on the offense about to disbunk their own worldview. Make fun of the alt-right about getting cucked by Big Bougie Cocks. I… really have no idea how to deal with idpol the language is just so fucking indecipherable. Maybe that should be step one: idpol to english dictionary.
Remember we should never criticize Feminists, black activists or LGBT activisits in general, because that will give the Left a reputation for reactionary views on social issues, which is what SJWs always try to do. Our entire beef is not with the concept of social justice and social equality, but with how that discourse on the wrong hands is counter-productive and even reactionary.
Best way to do this, is to go after individual SJWs and dig up anything that can discredit them, particularly by portraying their humanitarian progressivism as phony.
Shit like pic related is an example: present them as people cynically appropriating a discourse in order to make money. Other great technique is to find the liberals who were in favor of things like the Iraq War and juxtapose their SJW and Hawkish statements.
Make everyone doubt the SJWs, not social justice itself. If they lose popularity there will be a void on voices for anti-Racist, anti-Sexist shit, which we could attempt to fill.
When your stumble upon their shit on social media, flag EVERYTHING. Report it as hate speech or the equivalent. Make it a common practice, because mods care more about the amount of people reporting the content than the content itself.
One thing we need to do is to create Youtube accounts with the purpose of debunking the videos they make. They don't even have to be good: just make it too lenghty for anyone to bother responding to. If these become common and popular, alt-Right youtubers might gradually lose confidence.
like Holla Forums loves to say, it's systemic
you can't get rid of SJW's without getting rid of social justic
With SJWs we should specifically focus on the generally racist shit they say and their coddling/fetishizing of minorities.
Unfortunately I don't think we'll get rid of social justice unless we've managed to get rid of social INjustice so we're going to have to settle for Minimizing their presence for now.
you won't get rid of social justice by portraying them as merely corrupted, with their ideology remaining untouched
sjw's are the logical consequence of the social justice ideology
Using race to disrupt the narrative of SJW politics is definitely a way to go.
One thing I always thought about is how language policing and other "cultural" (as opposed to economic) changes benefit feminism and LGBT activism at the expense of black politics.
That is to say, if society was more accepting of gays and more open-minded towards gender, sexism and homophobia would cease to be a problem. But if society becomes accepting of blacks, black people still live as second-rate citizens because their problems are economic, not cultural, in nature. Pic related encapsulates this.
So we should say that Identitarian politics without anti-Capitalism is, in itself, a sign of white muh privilege. it's pushing things a bit, but it might work.
Communists were there talking about sexism and racial equality when liberals considered segregation and patriarchy natural.
how does that make a "lol no" ?
"Social justice ideology" is, in my understanding, just the idea that certain social equalities should be remedied. This is something us socialists adhere to since the beginning, it's not exclusive property of SJWs.
Starting a youth group to get people under the age of 21 involved in politics. The first meeting Im' going to show a movie. Was going to show "No Gods No Masters".
MOTTE AND BAILEY
Patriarchy really should be wordfiltered.
good ol' class politics is the solution. We can see right after the election the weakness of idpol, this is the time to insert Marxist analysis into everything until the idpol becomes obsolete. Which in part means that we should engage more in discussion about gender and race instead of just dismissing those issues as divisive and "who cares, it will be irrelevant after the revolution anyway". No, we should give a proper class-based answer on those issues.
is a meme. The best way to defeat them is by making better memes or ignoring their memes. That's why Hillary was stupid to pinpoint pepe, it just gives legitimacy to their memes and their meme magic. This is not a movement that can get anywhere without their memes.
This. And that means not posting 1000-word infographics and pdfs. Short and pithy is the point, simple shit that is easily digestible to the average prole
its so tiny.. the seeds of leftism are there on /r9k/, but they need a lot of nurturing
i think /v9k/ people would be more sympathetic, though it'd be harder to shill politics on that board. and a dick move too because they made that board to escape retarded /r9k/ politics chat
Your point on Twitter is particularly poignant. The aut-right has gotten so much media attention partially because their controlled trolling in areas of high visibility makes them look like there is a larger force there.
Shitposting doesn't need to be about spreading some truth and theory as much as it needs to be about invoking an emotional response. It is easier to get people to open their mind after they have already been emotionally herded.
I'll come and say things on twitter. Who do I follow to get in on the action?
There are some leftists on /r9k/. anarchists and tankies. I've seen some threads about it. But the far majorrity is people from Holla Forums. The biggest hive of leftism on halfchan is /mu/ and /his/. Althought /his/ also has a lot of Holla Forums as well
i can make one first and see how it goes
Attacking 4chan is a waste of time in my opinion. We need to get attention for ourselves. The aut right got big news time for their trolling. We simply need to do the same on social media. Be as obnoxious as possible, as long as we get our message out we win.
The only reason we would ever need to attack 4chan is if we don't have the numbers to get bigger fish.
The big question is how do we create a fuck ton of butthurt from trolling about class conflict.
Troll liberals on twitter about it.
this but maybe with a bit of education, and not just trolling for trolling's sake like a aut-rightists
The targets are more important than the message. We need to focus all of our energy on leftists. As long as they know who we are it is beneficial to us.
Holla Forums is simpler to deal with for sure. Their ideology isn't based on rationality and arguments, to beat them you just need to unleash more autistic screeching than they do. Edgeposting, gulagposting, stirnirposting, and general shit posting and memes can defeat them in sufficient quantities. Luckily leftypol seems to be the source of some of the best leftist memes on the Internet.
Idpol is harder because it has establishment backing, and has a large body of academic work backing it up from liberal intellectuals. This is something we actually have to engage in debate with. The first thing we ought to do is lay bare porky's ultimate supremacy. The goal is to get spooked idpollers to recognize that regardless of the colour of their skin, they are all oppressed by porky. Once they see this they can be lead to the conclusion that all idpol is a weapon used by porky to divide the working class against each other.
If a left liberal recognizes this, then they will realize that white supremacy and racism is just a tool for porky, and that white racists have just been duped into working against their fellow workers. Conservative liberals will realize the same thing about groups like BLM.
Crucially they also have to understand how racist attitudes are created by class conflict, both as a weapon to divide workers and as an extension of capitalism's demonization of the poor.
best response imo
I think this user has the right of it, when it comes to idpol.
It's very emotionally satisfying to hate racists, it's what SJWs get off on. It's so much harder to pity racists, understand their suffering, and want to help them. If you sound like you're trying to defend racists, SJWs will get angry, call you a racist or apologist or some bullshit, and completely shut down all their capacity for reason or critical thinking. You need to bring it on them slow, without triggering (lul) their ideological self defense mechanisms.
This is also a good one, it has the potential to pull more idpol types left. The hard part is convincing idpol people that most of black people's problems ARE economic in nature. A lot of them seem to believe that blacks would achieve parity overnight if racism just magically vanished.
idpol is merely identity politics. Not specifically SJWs
Speaking of IdPol I just got an idea, we need to take to twitter and try to get hashtags we come up with to trend, like how GAmerGate made a hashtag movement and the alt-right spreads their content via hashtags (I believe the most recent example of this is "#DeusVult")
The plan is to find examples of alt-right and SJW cringe and then label it with "#Fullidpol", if we tag enough shit with this then I'm willing to bet that aut-right and sjw find it, get triggered, and then their responses will start to draw more attention to the tag.
What do the rest of you think?
shitpost on FB and YT violently
No it isn't. This just makes you come off as the left wing equivalent of gamergate.
The best way is to show how Identity politics doesn't lead to emancipation.
There is PLENTY of Marxist Feminist critiques out there of Porkie Identity Politics.
I was thinking that we could post on other leftist communities like soviet empire, revleft and accion cuminista and see who sticks here
You can't openly attack idpol. This is a massive mistake, if you do it, the liberal media will come down on us like a tonne of bricks and destroy us as "Brocialists" that nobody would ever want to interact with.
The best way is to combat idpol with theory and argumentation. To FORCE in class analysis of racism and patriarchy and show that patriarchy and racism are largely forms of classist oppression, just different manifestations of it. Patriarchy was literally designed to keep power in the hands of "Strong men", it's why men who fall outside the masculine ideal are also massive victims of it.
We must make the argument that you cannot actively fight against sexism and racism, without a strong grounding in economics that lifts these disenfranchised groups up.
Just being reactionaries against idpol will do us no good.
I know for a while there was the whole "SJW or Neo-nazi" game, where you replaced men with blacks and women with whites in feminist literature, then put it alongside white supremacist literature and tried to figure out which was which.
However, while that sort of thing is fun, satisfying, and would help get "normies" on our side, I think it might alienate more than it would convert.
Personally, I think that most Americans understand that hating people because of the color of their skin is bad. The alt-right's hatred of minorities is more transparently despicable than left wing idpol. It's the left-wing idpol that is more insidious, it's left wing idpol that infiltrates and destroys leftist movements, it's left wing idpol that has the greater establishment backing.
I believe this is the correct line of attack. You need to show them that there's so much more to the plight of poor blacks than just racism. SJWs are what you get when you have people who are empathetic enough to recognize injustice, but are kept deliberately ignorant of class theory, and instead fed race and gender based explanations for every injustice they see. Many of them are people who genuinely care about inequality and want to make the world a better place, but have been misled as to why things are the way they are, and how best to fix them. I think it's important not to push them away.
We probably won't be able to convince them that idpol is porky's tool for pitting the proletariat against itself, but we may be able to convince them that socialist economic solutions will do more to help minorities (esp those suffering the most) than bitching about black representation in bourgie-blockbusters. Likewise, we might not be able to convince the people who buy into right wing idpol that mexicans aren't lazy and black people aren't naturally violent/stupid, but you can still convince them building a wall isn't going to magically get their jobs back.
If any of you are at all serious about actually overcoming SJW idpol, rather than just venting your spleens at someone you don't like, Based Pascal has some advice:
Always, always, always emphasize common ground. Always. Don't antagonize people who agree that racism is bad, even if they're dumbasses who fall right back into a second, more insidious kind of racism; build on that modest realization and use it as a scaffold to build class consciousness. At the very least try to get them to agree that class progress needn't come at the expense of the progress they're after, and take it from there.
So we should befriend SJW until they release class is the struggle?
This is actually really smart. If you don't put people on the defensive they are much more likely to listen to and think about the things you say.
Based advice from Based Pascal. Also what the user above you said about SJWs being well-meaning but misguided. If they channeled all of that angry energy into the correct methods backed up by theory, holy shit watch out.
I know everyone hates SJWs, and for good reason, but jesus christ, in a runoff between a group of people who think racism is bad and are mildly interested in socialism via exposure to socdem fluff pieces on Facebook, versus tea partiers and aut-rightists who think gultural margsism is literally Satan, who do we have a more immediate short-term chance of capturing and reforming?
Reading your posts is a riot, you guys are seriously fucking delusional, THIS is shit is what you think is going to change people's minds? Do you think every leftard isn't already doing this shit you mentioned? If you want to convince people, get out of middle school and/or your mom's basement and socialize, then maybe you'll break your egocentric world view and realize how other people think.
So that's what was missing; the scattered recollections and availability heuristic of a troglodyte.
cute pic, stupid post
We need to focus. Don't let the idiots distract us.
I think top priority right now should be making sure every single Holla Forums poster has registered an alt twitter account.
They should also make sure to post their twitter accounts in the thread. So far only a couple people have.
And then we round them up and shoot them, right? Brilliant strategy, comrade.
Woo don't let me cast my dark magic on your golden plans user! If they fail it will be all my fault and I just can't bear that responsibility!
Nice to see people seriously committed to feasible methods of seeing our message succeed.
you must mean 4/his/
also point to is racist by your own faggoty definition
oh sweetie, is this your first week?
I'm glad you've finally grasped this. Political change is not achieved by maintaining a moral highground and voicing righteous indignations, it's achieve by attacking those who stand in front of it. You're not going to talk people into giving away their power.
You're dumb and really shouldn't attempt gotcha shit
I for one believe that there is no hateful ideology, and that people are by nature good, even if misunderstood by everyone and perhaps themselves included.
But have you once considered that if you can't talk people into believing what you have to say, and achieving your objectives involves something immoral, that mayhaps you might be in the wrong?
Kick that around in your head a bit. I'm sure you understand the difference between right and wrong. Think back to bible school.
That depends. Will literally everyone else make the same self-reflection and abandon "immoral" techniques against us, and be completely ready to reform society and give up their power and status if defeated on a polite debate?
If so, good. Until that, we won't back down. So go preach your retarded self-emasculating philosophy to Holla Forums or to the SJWs and good luck.
Bruh, nobody knows who you are, so how can they be 'against' you?
Oh man, one can almost mistake ironic posting of anime pics for some type of confidence in your own horseshit
Actually a neutral observer would probably see that what I'm saying is common sense, but I guess everyone is in a conspiracy against you.
Your ideas are such common sense that they seem to go against what literally every political force that ever existed in history did bro
Yeah what's with that? I see people meme'ing zizek or stirner pretty frequently on /mu/…
A suggestion on prop. material: Can someone photoshop that GOP selfie and do a THEY LIVE rendition of it?
While technology gives us tremendous opportunities in propaganda, I don't think we should ignore the power of physical media either. Small graffitos of sickles & hammers, black cats, A's, etc. set in places that make it look like there are active commies in the area. me and some of my local somewhat organized friends have been working on wheatpaste posters to put on poles and walls in public. media like YouTube is useful too, propaganda films and that stuff could be cool, like actual films not shitposts.
You're behind the times
you are pedjudiced against neetsocs, and advocate using your power to silence them.
please point out where i said that it was okay for fascists to do the same retarded nigger
will you fucking fags stop going there
When we say we hate Holla Forums we mean any kind of Holla Forums. Your continuous commie shitposting isn't improving the quality of the board. Can't you spam your own 2x4/his/?
What's the matter classcuck? Can't handle the banter?
No such thing. Your opinions affect /his/ too. We can do whatever we want. Your appeals fall on deaf ears.
/his/ has no agenda except deriving as much as possible an objective view on history while avoiding ideological bias
w-why can't you just invade your own /his/? We have to deal with Holla Forums's shitposting anyway (NB: drowning right wing shitposting with left wing shitposting isn't helping, we can manage Holla Forums on our own)
You'll notice that whenever Holla Forums occupies a space, dissenting opinions are allowed. But where there is a strong Holla Forums presence, dissenters are forced out/accused of being shills/etc. Why do you think we have nazis, liberals, and ancaps on this board? (and we actually respond to their threads) We like to be kept on our feet. Self-criticism is one of our virtues.
/his/ is a Holla Forums colony. This is for the best. When we leave and Holla Forums takes over you'll see how quickly free speech and objectivity go away.
If we take that principle to be true (i.e. "if others cannot be talked into my belief, my belief is wrong"), then that would imply everyone is in the wrong for every belief including the very principle you just set forth. It isn't possible to talk every person into a single basic belief such as the outside world being real, let alone an entire schema.
Also, what kind of person uses "mayhaps" nowadays?
We'll do little then but recapitulate childhood. This non-solution is worthy of being called "bible school"-tier thinking, though.
You would think at least a few of the posters on /his/ have heard of hermeneutics and the problems inherent to interpretation. "Avoiding ideological bias" often means the same thing interpretatively as it does politically: repeating some variation of modern liberal cant.
you realize you're outing yourselves?
Holla Forums will just skim this thread and you're screwed
What? These are alt accounts.
My twitter account has no connection to my other online identities or my real identity.
Bump for lulz
Screwed in what way? Even if my account was connected to personal information, what are they going to do with it?
The answer: Absolutely fucking nothing.
bump for butthurt commie keks
We need to get BadMouse more popular, he's normal looking and very likeable
Have you learnt nothing? internet memetics requires EDGYNESS. Bernie is not even a socialist FFS. Here in Spain there is a pretty active community of lefties-communists of every type, and the most succesful ones are the edgy commie memesters who support Assad and joke about le 100 trillion deaths and progressive cucks. That kind of account will never be mainstream, but edgy kids are just as likely to pick that meme as they are to choose the authoritarian right meme.
I think that may be true for one demographic (chanposters), but not for liberals.
Well, the edgelords I talked about are twitter accounts, and there's no chan here. The edgy minority influences a disproportionate amount of people through dank memes, and it serves as an ideal, non-apologetic core that never contradicts itself because it's just a meme. Once this edgy minority is established, there's not much to gain from making it bigger, but I have the feeling it doesn't even exist on the left of US politics (from what I see here).