Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality...

What's wrong with liberalism, /lefties/?

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Private property and markets are the most glaring issues.

It's the ruling ideology of the ruling class under capitalism. Liberals were mostly based in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries (pics related), though.

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there's your problem

also "democracy" under liberalism just means bourgeois democracy - democracy for the rich. it took centuries for workers to get the vote

So it's not the ideology itself, but its proponents?

It overthrew the ancien regime, but created new horrors in its stead.

shoulda read
Private property, aka land and equipment used by workers to produce, transport and sell goods, owned by another who claims a portion of each workers value as profit. Capitalism is a theft based economy.

What would you say is the difference in values between liberals and socialists?

As in, I often see liberalism vs. socialism portrayed as liberty vs. equality, but I feel like that's a bit inaccurate.

Primarily, it's the social aspects of liberalism which are what is most worth embracing. Respect for individual liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, the rights to fair trial and due process, ect.; are very important and the key weapons to fight against authoritarianism. They should be the cornerstone of any decent society. I'm less enamoured on the free market principles of liberalism simply on the basis that consolidation of capital very easily becomes an infringement on the liberties of others.

Liberals support private property and private ownership of the means of production, socialists oppose both.
Liberals prioritise individualism, socialists prioritise collective needs.
Liberals believe in competition, socialists believe in cooperation and solidarity.
Liberals want a class society based on property ownership, socialists want a classless society.
Liberals want production for profit, socialists want production for use.

Liberalism was pretty good when there was feudalism and reactionaries around, it has simply become shit due to its age.

I mean I know what the differences are between liberalism and socialism.

I was just wondering if there was a simpler way to state it.

We can say that, before approx­im­ately the 80s of the last cen­tury, we have always at the very gen­er­al level, the sub­ject­ive gen­er­al level, two pos­sib­il­it­ies con­cern­ing the his­tor­ic­al des­tiny of human beings. First, the way of lib­er­al­ism, in its clas­sic­al sense. Here, lib­er­al has many sig­ni­fic­a­tions, but I take lib­er­al in its prim­it­ive sense, that is, fun­da­ment­ally that private prop­er­ty is the key of social organ­iz­a­tion, at the price of enorm­ous inequal­it­ies, but the price is the price. At the end, for lib­er­al­ism, private prop­er­ty must be the key of social organ­iz­a­tion. And on the oth­er side, we have the social­ist way, the com­mun­ist way — there are dif­fer­ent words — in their abstract sense, that is, the end of inequal­it­ies must be the most fun­da­ment­al goal of human polit­ic­al activ­ity. The end of inequal­it­ies even at the price of viol­ent revolu­tion. So on one side, peace­ful vis­ion of his­tory as the con­tinu­ation of some­thing which is very old, that is, private prop­er­ty as the key of social organ­iz­a­tion, and on the oth­er side, some­thing new, some­thing which prob­ably begins with the French Revolu­tion, which is the pro­pos­i­tion that there is another way, that in some sense, the con­tinu­ity of the his­tor­ic­al exist­ence of human beings must accept a rup­ture between a very long sequence where inequal­it­ies, private prop­er­ty, and so on are the law of col­lect­ive exist­ence, and another vis­ion of what is that sort of des­tiny, and the most import­ant being in fact the ques­tion of equal­ity and inequal­ity, and this con­flict between lib­er­al­ism in its clas­sic­al sense, and the new idea under many dif­fer­ent names – anarchy, com­mun­ism, social­ism and so on — is prob­ably the great sig­ni­fic­a­tion of the 19th cen­tury and of a big part of the next cen­tury too.

So, dur­ing approx­im­ately near two cen­tur­ies, we have some­thing like a stra­tegic choice, con­cern­ing not only the loc­al events of polit­ics, the nation­al oblig­a­tions, the wars and so on, but con­cern­ing what is really the his­tor­ic­al des­tiny of human beings as such, the his­tor­ic­al des­tiny of the con­struc­tion of human­ity as such. In some sense, our time, from the 80s to today, is the time of the appar­ent end of this choice. The pro­gress­ive dis­par­i­tion of that sort of choice. We have today in fact the dom­in­ant idea that there exists no glob­al choice, that there is no oth­er solu­tion. It was the word of Thatch­er: no oth­er solu­tion. No oth­er solu­tion except, nat­ur­ally, lib­er­al­ism, or today gen­er­ally we speak of neo­lib­er­al­ism. No oth­er solu­tion. And this point is very import­ant because Thatch­er her­self is not say­ing that this solu­tion is a very good one. It’s not the prob­lem for her. The prob­lem is that it’s the only solu­tion. And so you know in the con­tem­por­ary pro­pa­ganda, the point is not to say that glob­al­ized cap­it­al­ism is excel­lent, because it’s clear that it’s not. Every­body knows that. Every­body knows that mon­strous inequal­it­ies can­not be a solu­tion of the his­tor­ic­al des­tiny of human beings — every­body knows that. But the argu­ment is, “Okay, it’s not so good, but it’s the only real pos­sib­il­ity.” And so, in my opin­ion, the defin­i­tion of our time is the attempt to impose on human­ity at the scale of the world itself, the con­vic­tion that there is only one way for the his­tory of human beings. And without say­ing that this way is excel­lent, that this way is a very good one, but by say­ing that there is no oth­er solu­tion, no oth­er way.

So, we can define our moment as the moment of the prim­it­ive con­vic­tion of lib­er­al­ism as dom­in­ant in the form that private prop­er­ty and free mar­ket com­pose the unique pos­sible des­tiny of human beings. And it’s also a defin­i­tion of a human sub­ject. What is, in this vis­ion, a human sub­ject? A human sub­ject is a beg­gar, a con­sumer, an own­er, or noth­ing at all. That is the strict defin­i­tion today of what is a human being. So that is the gen­er­al vis­ion, the gen­er­al prob­lem, and the gen­er­al law of the con­tem­por­ary world.

mariborchan.si/video/alain-badiou/reflections-on-the-recent-election/

Liberals are enemies of the worker.

That's the core of it all, and maybe the simplest way to put it.

The freedom that liberalism speaks of is only relevant to the ruling class. By eliminating private property and the imposition of wage labor the freedom that liberalism affords the bourgeoisie will be granted to all individuals by creating an environment where self realization is directly tied to one's labor and interests.

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failed to liberate anyone

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that's a bit harsh on pacifists. pacifism and socialism have gone hand in hand for many on the left for a long time.

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Well, I've noticed that Holla Forums tends to conflate classical liberalism with the liberalism as defined by American political culture.

People here tend to shit on millennials for self-identifying as "liberals," but I can tell you that's more of a case with being influenced by the country's political culture. Many of the millennials I know are actual socialists, hell, I knew of a few people who identified as Communist. Millennials didn't support Bernie for the spectacle, they supported him because they recognized that there are inherent flaws within the capitalist system. None of the millennials that I knew supported Drumpf or Shillary. Maybe it's because I'm in California, but I can say for sure that class consciousness has a subtle presence.

Both classical and "modern" liberalism (or neo-liberalism) are for private property.

Millennials in the US like "socialism". Which just means infrastructure and socall programs. Sometimes they even include the military and the police into their special snoflake definition. This bullshit has been peddled by people like Bill Maher and Jon Stewart so it's really not that surprising.