Where should the left go from here? Something is obviously not working. We're falling deeper and deeper into powerlessness and irrelevancy. If there is one thing that I learned from the US election and Brexit, it's that the right excels at creating enthusiasm. At the moment the left is fragmented, divided into factions. On the other hand the trumpists have what we lack: unity and solidarity on a grand scale. We had a chance for real change with Bernie, but the Democrats screwed it up. Republicans control all three branches of government. Is the answer to come up with populist policies of our own? A leftist trump? Lofty ideals count for shit if they can't be made reality. The left needs to increase its appeal, make it sexy again. To do this it needs to purge its ranks from SJWs and rabid pro-unfettered immigrationists. These are things that turn people off. What do you think, anons? How do you create mass support for leftism again?
Where should the left go from here? Something is obviously not working...
Pretty much what you said, we must convert or purge every single centrist cuck
Ideas, anyone? This is what we should be doing. This is what will create change, not arguing endlessly about inane matters. Raise your voice, user.
educate, agitate, organize.
The left was taken over by identity obsessed third way corporate globalists.
Clintons defeat is actually an opening to reform the party and purge those people.
Of course there is a stark divide between people who care more about class, and people who think all white people are evil, pleas shrek your muh privilege.
You have these ivy league college educated out of touch cosmopolitan arrogant rich fuckers talking down to working class white people, telling them they deserve everything that happens to them because they are racist and muh privileged.
It was those people on the left who created the resentment that led to trump.
drop the obsession with complex theory
purge idpol and nationalists of all stripes
start addressing everyday concern
stop joking about gulags and massacres
not everyone agrees or has the same values. someone has to lose; someone has to die.
This chart is retarded and whoever made it should buy a one-way ticket to Siberia. Black ops? Illicit sources? You must be kidding me. Stuff like that isn't an option in the 21st century. Go back to pre-revolution Russia you faggot.
Replacing the liberals is a must and since democrats are in four years of hell, the left has a perfect chance to seize the day.
that's a ridiculous binary. what is it with you people and these stark contrasts? there are ways to disarm and disempower people without resorting for massacres
Read Robespierre and Saint-Just
Reeducation programs?
Bernie created enthusiasm. He got BTFO by the DNC and then came crawling back to ask his voters to vote for the very person that cucked him (and them) out of change.
I'd honestly blame Bernie for that. Trump survived a full frontal attack from the media, every competing candidate, hell they even brought people like Mitt Romney to the table to help. Meanwhile Bernie sucked Hillary's encrusted asshole because he was scared of butting heads with her. He could have been way, WAY more assaulting on her, just like Trump was, because it's really not hard to point her flaws just with facts. Instead he tried to be "respectful" and at best came up with some vague "b-but muh donations from Wall Street" nonsense. Well, good job losing to someone who lost to the guy with the highest unfavorables in history.
The second thing is you need to smash idpol for good. What's happening right now after Trump victory is: The people who weren't too idpol are noticing what a cancer it is, while the idpolers themselves are simply doubling down on it and going even more extreme.
I'll tell you EXACTLY what you did wrong, from a viewpoint from someone who opposes you.
It's the educate and agitate part here.
Your "education" isn't education, it's brainwashing. It doesn't teach facts or useful things, it's shit like "The internal semiotics of feminist air conditioning", nothing useful, and in fact it's part of your agitation phase.
The next thing you did wrong was "agitate". You will be thrown out by a genuine gathering every single fucking time because you bred and brainwashed the insane and ignorant into your ranks.
The 3rd thing you did wrong, is that you threw out the truth if it didn't suit you.
the 4th thing you did wrong is that you refused to argue on a logical level and instead mocked your opponents.
The 5th thing you did wrong is assuming that what you did worked, which cost you the presidency.
You people were easy to defeat, mainly because you sided on the side of untruth, and you always will, since the left is ultimately wrong anyway.
you cling to tried and tested failures of idealodies, like communism and socialism and expect them to work when they clash with basic human want and need, and with human thought in general.
The reason Republicans won is because they stuck to the ideals of Captialism, free speech and generally treating their opponents like human beings instead of organizing riots and chimping out at every avenue.
You'll never win, because you have no truth to stick by, because your whole idealogy is a sham.
Get fucked, but I don't have to tell you that, because goddamn you're about to be fucked hard.
Your hatred of whiteness is what's not working.
You may now proceed to cry spook and lose some more elections.
Somehow I don't think being against immigration is going to help us abolish borders.
Hi Holla Forums!
Your desire to abolish borders and let even more scabs flood in is another reason you're going to keep on losing.
Your small scale mindset that won't let you see the world outside your nation is why you can't see how far the left has truly came.
Ok, enjoy losing more elections!
Hope you like the new conservative Supreme Court lol.
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For now I want to repill people on the crimes of Hillary, Obama and co
You need to show them WHY their discourse is shit, and how all this spastic fit of shouting racist and inventing pronouns is bullshit, and try and foster class conciousness
you are a joke
Oh I didn't know there was an anarchist candidate running.
You're a compromise making liberal.
If this is all that I aimed to do, that would be a compromise, but people need to understand exactly why the system is first shit. Maybe I don't get your point
An open borders candidate was running and lost.
Most reasonable post in the thread.
The LArp'ing needs to stop right now. We need to change this from a meme board to an actual leftist discussion/activism board
We need a coherent ideology and a united front of all different tendencies. Only when we have some semblance of united left will we get anything done.
We all want to fight capitalism, so why do we waste so much time fighting one another?
Going after liberals as fine as long as you're not also defending the state.
Open borders isn't no borders.
how would no borders work?
regretable, administrative divisions of land are actually a good way to organize things
It's like language; it might be arbitrary, but any form of it is more useful than having no form of it
not saying it cannot be done, but from an engineering point of view, it's a logistical nightmare
Exactly. There is a strong connection between all of us, opposition to capitalism. Instead of bickering about details we should first concentrate on actually accomplishing some goals. The future will not become any clearer unless we move towards it.
This. Let every strain try their approach all at once. Stand in solidarity and support each other where possible/necessary. If different strains want to have revolution in the same area, just negotiate who gets what. Let reality and observation sort out which scheme works the best, and the world will gravitate in that direction.
One world anarchist government.
You have a bunch of autonomous collectives, communes, and other groups of people in physical locations (people also form associations over the internet regardless of physical location). Each entity has relationships with other entities nearby and negotiate whenever their management comes into conflict, but more or less keep to the rule of "whoever is actually using the shit gets to keep using it."
pls meme responsibly
the alt right has been wildly successful making stormcuck jokes about muh wite jenocide and le hitler… so tbh i think confrontational meme magic might actually be a good way forward. send the nazibois to gulag!
Anarkiddies want a government, but this government will be non-hierarchical and sheit, so it won't a state ;^)
i don't think it is worth the trouble of redpilling sheep. once we have seized the memes of production they will clamor to join our glorious movement.
Most of us still want some form of society m8, we just want it to not suck.
stormfag detected
back to pol gulag for you
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He might be shit, but you're cancer, go back to plebbit
Oh boy, it's yet another exciting and original episode of Holla Forums thinkg left = librul and giving us all the Hell for it that the dankest straw librul maymays of 2011 can muster! Let's see what fun new adventures our loveable fuckup gets into this week few minutes!
Is that voluntary, cooperative basis not a form of governance?
"an agency of the federal government"
Local council everyone takes part in if they so desire is government.
I am an anarchist, you twit.
It is what it is, a voluntary association of horizontal networks in place of a government.
Although the definition of anarchy itself says this:
The definition of traditional government is probably where the confusion was. Most people typically refer to all hierarchical governments as just "government", whereas you obviously don't.
Am I wrong to do that? Honestly unsure.
It's called direct democracy. You have a problem with that?
The problem isn't government, it's central government. Descentralized government with direct democracy where people are inveted to join him and give their thoughts with city states like regions(for lack of a better name), unified by cultural ties such as language and customs.
You know…like ancient Greece.
Technically you're not wrong, although usually anarchists will just say that they're against all forms of government, and want horizontal networks, or simply just communes instead.
I mean you could keep saying what you've been saying but be prepared to have to explain it every time lol
This tbh
gg
There's already a progressive left movement forming, seizing the Dem party as we speak. Bernie's been endorsing Keith Ellison (a solid progressive) for DNC chair for days now, and even Harry Reid endorsed him so it's basically a shoe-in. The Dem party is on track to becoming once again a party for the people, and will secure the support of the white working class.
Kinda unsettling how little you guys keep up.
This might sound retarded/naive but I feel like there's actually a chance to steer Trump into accomplishing progressive goals.
If we operate under the assumption that he's got no ideology and is just in it for himself, I don't see why he wouldn't want to do things that are overwhelmingly popular among workers, because it would make him look good.
I wouldn't say the left is becoming increasingly irrelevant. I'd say liberalism is. Soon people will realize that the far-right has nothing to offer in response other than being contrarian.
lurk moar faggot. Sargon of akkad is babby level shit. The more you parrot his talking points the less people will take you seriously here.
He's surrounded by neo-libs though
what a load of shit.
"Alt-righter" here, this is true. The sole reason I voted for Trump was to make liberals mad. I told myself I'd take WW3 just to see eat their salt.
Now that that's accomplished, I'm on board with your alt-left or whatever thing.
I'm just waiting to see how far in denial Holla Forums will go to defend their god-emperor daddy. They can only go so far before they realize he's just another neolib with funnier more down-to-earth sounding rhetoric. That's what I mean. The alt-right provide no meaningful way forward. All they can do is cry about diversity and joos or whatever.
but user…Hillary was the ww3 candidate. She pulled the classic "let's accuse my oppnent of what i am before they use it on me".
Thank you for voting Trump. Now i'll proceed to eat popcorn in my small irrelevant countrie in Europe and count how many promises Trump will fail to keep up.
No. Bernie's popularity is a reflection of popular discontent as is Trump's popularity, but they themselves do not represent the solution. The more lefties convince themselves that the Dems will be the way forward, the more parliamentarianism has served its purpose in reabsorbing subversive elements. People get convinced that reformism is worth another go and so they begin pursuing parliamentary change rather than change outside of the system.
The fact that so many liberals are pissed off at the DNC is a good sign. What we need to do now is to suggest to them that maybe a system in which years and years of hard-earned reforms can be overturned by one bad election is a bad way of achieving social change.
To the extent that libs suck us back in with promises of shifting left, we've failed. To the extent that we can demonstrate that this election was an inevitable consequence of the liberal agenda and they must look outside of the system for change, we will grow stronger.
There's talk of purging the DNC of all neolibs.
So what is your solution?
Trump is surrounded by neo-libs and neo-cons and retards
Centralism doesn't work. There's no point in trying to stress balanced budgets or policies as being to dangerous. You can only win by going for a full transformation of the banking system and economy, you need to abolish the federeal reserve and develop public banking to make co-operative enterprises financially realistic
revolution, comrade
This
Lefties that think "oh this is gonna be good" are dumb. His Cabinet is filled with war hawks, TPP lobbyists, Bush era people, Goldman Sachs employees, the Fox News squad, etc etc etc
This presidency is gonna be awful.
Yeah, there's one happening right now. It's called the political revolution and led by a guy named Bernie Sanders. Maybe you should get aboard. :^)
Thing is though that if you propose radical changes from the get go you won't garner votes.
I always wanted to know only 1 opinion from leftypol. Do you like muslims immigrants? Do you realize all political experiments like socialism, communism etc can be tried and even be successful if you maintain the demographics of a country? Basically not adding color, by keeping niggers in their place?
it's also about race, if the left dropped some of the social justice brow-beating ethnic egalitarian stuff and instead was pro-Western and respected a culture & atmosphere of free-speech, yet still maintained the economic hallmarks of the left, they'd take over.
Being egalitarian and respecting Western cultural values are not contradictory, in fact the latter requires the former. Though I agree that SJW cancer has to go.
Thats been empirically proven wrong
we are not asking you to pay more taxes, you are the 99%. Your healthcare (and later rent) should be paid for by your employers 100%. Big pharma CEO's wants to inflate healthcare costs to 300x the average persons wage, then them and their wall-street friends can pay for it.
politicians want you to blame each-other so you don't look at who's robbing you. If you are in the same tax bracket you are just a source of cheap labor for them and their revolving door corporate lobbies.
Minimum wage, maximum wage, all inclusive benefits, UBI, single payer health/car insurance, loan forgiveness/assistance for college and people hurt by mortgage crisis, easy to understand tax reforms described by a one sentence zinger that lowers taxes on the bottom 50% of Americans, and on small business employing
What the fuck are you guys on?
good post user, will use those graphs
not inherently. there are many reactionaries among them.
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Do you really think that *this* is the election that permanently swings the pendulum in a single direction? We're never gonna go through the same exact bullshit yet again? fucking please
It wasn't just them
feminists are eating themselves.
I get one thing from this and all the other whiny posts on Facebook
Conservatives are pissed that a president elect claiming to represent them has mass protests building across the country against him from fucking average high school students to random people in the highway.
So you either make the US North Korea, or get perpetually made fun of like Bush but x10.
How many people do you think there are in the United States that self-identify as leftists and understand they are not the same as liberals?
MORE ART AND PROTESTS
LESS NEOLIBERAL TROLL GARBAGE GONAD POLITICS
THANK YOU
(I expect this to happen strictly our of reaction to Trump anyway)
very few. the US left has been decimated for decades.
Yes, but if you had to come up with an actual number, how many do you think? ~5 million?
well the Democratic Socialists of America has about 10,000 members. The Greens have 250,000 and not all of them are socialists. So honestly, I suspect less than 1 million.
I think more than anything, we need a single party or political united front of some sort. Ideological differences between anarchists/socialists etc should not be the most pressing issue for us, as our immediate interests of opposing Trump and the rest of the neoliberal establishment are identical. Many of the ideological divides of the past are simply not relevant for anything other than Spanish Civil War RP.
But we absolutely need some sort of international, unified organization which takes every advantage made available by the internet. We also should spend considerable effort on iconography, imagery, etc – a sickle and hammer is increasingly meaningless as less and less people know what a sickle is other than that thing the Grim Reaper uses to kill people.
OK. But how? There's not enough leftists in the US, and liberals are in no mood to oppose fascism
Then we make them. Educate, agitate, organize.
Also, earlier today Bhaskar Sunkara tweeted out that people should join the DSA and Neera fucking Tanden retweeted it.
If we can even remotely get through to her, then we can definitely radicalize a lot of liberals. It's just going to take a lot of work.
Bullshit. With the decline of the smiling liberal janus face we grow stronger.
No we didn't. He is a SocDem, and we got every last bit of mileage out of him that we could have reasonably hoped for.
If you are proposing nationalism, I am going to stop you right there.
Yeah but in a few posts time someone again will post something involving obscure, complex and abstract theory.
Better to explain things in clear and simple terms using real world examples.
Holla Forums does this and that's why it's messages are far easier to digest for the average pleb.
I do think you're discounting the level of tribalism that a lot of people exhibit. Liberals and the rest of the folk would be more willing to join a radical group if the organization was made to seem larger and more powerful than it is.
The only way I could think about doing this is mass, coordinated shit-posting in the style of those Holla Forums fucks. But instead of shilling for a politician, we'd shill for some sort of non-sectarian organization.
then we lose everything that makes us better than the right
Wow Uncle Sam finally figured out how to get his share of the Devil's Reef cashflow looks like.
people can sense in their guts the problems in the world. by all means simplify theory but for gods sake don't make rote learning it a necessity.
the right succeeds because they're often good at appealing to emotion. no reason we shouldn't do that too.
Darknet IRC, shill it through all the internet. Fifth international.
I think we should all just work on rasing class conciseness. I think that's something every lefty can agree on needs to be done.
Once a significant number of proles realize they're proles we can go back to secretariat fighting, but until then all this back and forth is just a circlejerk.
The masses will be more inspired by actions and organization than they will be by theory. Much of the population is not entrenched in ideology, but instead moved by emotional and often reactionary responses.
more or less, the consensus of liberalism is breaking down across the west, especially as the west continues it's economic stagnation and slow decline in power
I'm calling it now, they'll be unironically neoconservative/neoliberals within the year after purging and banning all the actual fascists for doubting Trump
if you count all the Trotskyist Internationals we're probably on the Fiftieth by now
Then I guess we're the 1337 international because internet
ha ha ha
on Holla Forums I get the feeling that now that the dust is settling, some are turning on Trump. I know I am
At the moment it felt like a desperate battle against a decades long political mafia, but now that it's almost a settled matter, and even highly probable that they'll get prosecuted, I no longer care to support Trump. He's not the bogeyman everyone (even here) think he is, but he is not a nice guy either.
I just wanted him to upset the system and give the middle finger to rich fucks like pic related. Let's see how they fare with someone who (albeit fully flawed in his own) is not so easy to buy in the traditional way. I simply know things with Hillary weren't going to be better, plus a WW3 on top of the corruption
nah, Trump, Shrekeli, Soros, the Rosthchilds… they all make more money than they deserve, but they are human too
I just hope Holla Forums will be contrarian enough to take him down. There was recently a thread with people calling him a pedo. It looks like now it's more fun shitting on him
In his recent interview about how he's going to deal with ISIS he literally fucking refused to answer the question. What kind of president does that? It was obvious he had no actual response and he was visibly shaken at being pushed on the topic.
I think that minorities should remain minorities in any country
irrelevant shiting ftw though, but mass migration fuck up culture
well, if he didn't knew anything, deciding not to run his mouth for once was the best decision
But he does look like he knows more about ISIS than he says. Not the most knowledgeable for sure, but he seems to have contacts that tell him what's going on, and it wasn't out of the blue that he called Obama the founder of ISIS
Just look at these interviews, and how he tries not to sound like he's defending Saddam, but clearly thinks US involvement caused only harm
youtube.com
youtube.com
Bottom line is, somehting very dark happened with Syria and Lybia, and it all points to Clinton's entourage
You think it's bad he has doubts? Don't believe anyone who says they know how to end such a complex affair: it means they already have a buyer for the arms deal.
I'm scared of Trump in the shit he flaunts without doubt, like global warming being chinese propaganda
Not the point. Now that he is president elect all eyes are on him and he is making enormous gaffes already.
The left should drop all mention of "neoliberalism"
Just call it what it is - capitalism
Meanwhile when one of those threads happened on 4pol
Those people are deadset on defending anything he might even slightly be guilty of
They will never, EVER admit that they were wrong, just like the Obama drones.
how did this populist shit get started? it's a fucking meme, trump's handlers saw that "populism" would get votes and so he pumped out that rhetoric. he's already meeting with the same lobbies that have run the country for decades, he won't change shit. trump cares about his own wealth & fame, he doesn't give a shit about us.
just sick of seeing this "trump is the friend of the worker! friend of the little guy!" bullshit.
Join the club, compatriot.
Try Warren Buffet
No Mexican flag-waving when Bernie lost the primaries so STFU. If Hillary won, there would be none of this hand-wringing. The Left has to prove that it's not even more inherently contradictory than "capitalism."