Idpol with the intention of giving that identity obsessive priority over others...

Colton Gray
Colton Gray

idpol with the intention of giving that identity obsessive priority over others =/= idpol with the intention of opposing that sort of idpol directly

I can't say I have any problem at all with anti-racism, or BLM, when its main purpose is to fight against the idpol that is racism or the spooked minds of police.
I've seen people here say we go after people who specifically are fighting racism, sexism, and such, but I think at worst we should ignore them now and integrate them into the socialist society.

Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

Levi Baker
Levi Baker

I'll just go ahead and say I'm right.

Oliver Jackson
Oliver Jackson

fighting cancer with cancer
just another day of anarchkiddie…

Landon Bennett
Landon Bennett

It's hard to deny that the kurds make use of identity politics to good effect with the goal and end effect of damaging identity politics.

Jonathan Campbell
Jonathan Campbell

I've seen people here say we go after people who specifically are fighting racism, sexism, and such
those are mostly /pol/luters, or at least former /pol/luters that are still clinging to certain reactionary beliefs

James Walker
James Walker

I personally have a problem with BLM. So I'd say idpol on either side is fucking shit.

Charles Robinson
Charles Robinson

what exactly is your problem with blm?

Caleb James
Caleb James

There are certainly many problems with BLM but as a whole it's against racist police, which if used by socialists can be against both racism and police as a whole.

Xavier Rogers
Xavier Rogers

Maybe, but I fear that Kurds should not be made example of, they are not fighting idpol, but sexism. I don't believe there ever been big problem with racism between them. Oh, and if their "government" with "women councils" prove to be successful, why would they dismantle them in the future?

Jason Nguyen
Jason Nguyen

fighting idpol, but sexism
But is sexism not a form of idpol?

why would they dismantle them in the future?
Hopefully eventually they will be no longer necessary.

Isaiah Gomez
Isaiah Gomez

My problem with BLM is that they are racist, that they ignore legitimate problems affecting black communities, such as poverty, single motherhood rate, dependancy on welfare from the state, shitty health, and shitty schools.

I hate them when they claim to want a discussion about racism but they wind up sperging out, burning down BLACK NEIGHBOURHOODS, beating up white people, and denying BLACK ON BLACK CRIME, which makes a majority of America's crime. And when a black person speaks out against this, do you know what ensues? They call them a coon, a house nigger and a race traitor

implying because you're black, you must act, speak, and talk a certain way

They're liberal SJW shitheads, who then get lumped in with the left.

Fuck them, they're not helping anyone and are only causing more racial tensions, to the point where /pol/ is sperging out at them for racist issues (waaaahhhhh, niggers, muh white aryan race), not their policies. I view them with as much disdain, disgust and hatred than I do for the KKK.

Racist police? Much as I hate to take /pol/'s side of the arguement, some of those shootings of Black people were done by BLACK COPS.

What I hate more is that they're making this a race issue, as opposed to the US cops acting like a pack of trigger happy fuckwits. Seriously, you could have tasered these people, but instead, they decided to SHOOT THEM.

Xavier Garcia
Xavier Garcia

But is sexism not a form of idpol?
Sure, my mistake, too many bears.
Hopefully eventually they will be no longer necessary.
well, let's hope they will be successful even with them for starters. I just fear that this liberal approach "they exploited us, so let us exploit them" is never ending cycle which is keeping happy only porky. It's turning one race against another, one gender against another one, it's not turning proletariat against bourgeois.

Jaxon Cooper
Jaxon Cooper

pretty much everything in this point is a racist right-wing talking point

Ryan Clark
Ryan Clark

I don't think it's so much that they're ignoring those problems, but that there's no larger scoped organization to bring those things to people's eyes. I wouldn't call that racist, and the more successes BLM has I think the more people will begin to feel as if they can also change those things.

Burning down your OWN SHIT, their own allies, their own comrades is a bad case of bad organization in riots and activism, this is what happens when we, leftists, leave anti-police movements to the hands of incompetent liberals. I think your own point makes a good argument for why we should get involved. If not as a board, as individuals, and if not involved, at least not attack the movement.

They're liberals only because we haven't used that anger and that injustice to our own ends, we simply ignored it sitting in our ivory towers, not interacting with the world while theoryless liberals have been.

/pol/ will sperg out at anything that is not directly aggressive towards black people, don't be a fucking faggot appealing to /pol/ as some sort of fucking authority god damn that's stupid don't do that.

And you believe that because some of those shootings were done by black cops, that that somehow makes racist police not an issue? It somehow means we shouldn't take this opportunity to attack the police in general? We should just sit on our hands and do nothing but suck our own dicks about how we're too good to do anything like a bunch of leftcoms?

They are not making it a race issue. It is both a race and police-existing-at-all issue. Our refusal to touch it is why it is merely a race issue. Our refusal to influence it is why it is mostly impotent. This can possibly be used to weaken police forces across the united states, and why is it not? Because liberals are posting retarded shit on twitter?

You're a tankie you admit it, my argument here will be formed on that. Plenty anarchists won't support marxist parties because of their belief the proper intentions will be co-opted by power loving assholes, but I think the marxist ideas are plenty valid, but of course I still fear there could be co-opting, this is also exactly how I feel about the women's councils in Rojava.

Noah Barnes
Noah Barnes

How is it racist? How am I being racist? Because I hate BLM, that makes me a racist?

Then don't make it a race issue, make it an issue of cops acting like dickheads. Don't make it about black lives, but cops who must be brought to accountability, against all races, and people.

Gabriel Russell
Gabriel Russell

But it is a race issue. It is both a race issue and a police-existing-at-all issue. This can be used to radicalize black communities. You sincerely just sound butthurt it's not called "black (and white) lives matter" even though it's blatantly implied.

Ayden Moore
Ayden Moore

this.
altho i have no problem with blm because i'm not amerilard.
but i think idpol is retarded in general and only cause tensions and problems.

Gavin Brown
Gavin Brown

Plenty anarchists won't support marxist parties
mein gott, I am Marxist-Leninist, not marxist.You just admitted that you are basically liberal.
read a fcking book
Start with he's manifesto. It's short and if you are not native english speaker you'll find it translated to your language.
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

But to the point, every type of government have risk to be infected by corruption, we shall not deny that. This is why I oppose creation of councils and laws based entirely on race/gender, I can't make me believe that it'll not turn into some kind of neo-fascist organization in some time.

Hudson Hill
Hudson Hill

I'm butthurt because they're turning into the black version of the KKK, and have give into idpol and "muh white supremacist culture"

Julian Foster
Julian Foster

Marxist-Leninist, not marxist.
How in the cocking shit is a marxist-leninist not also a marxist? I read some more of capital today jerko. Slow and steady wins the race, gotta make sure you understand those sentences, not just that you can pronounce them.

If you must oppose councils based on the prevention of oppressive idpol due to the possibility of corruption than how can you not opposite the state completely because of the possibility of corruption? You sound like you're more of an anarchist than I am, which is odd coming from a tankie.

I honestly don't believe they are. I can see how with a /pol/ lense of examples it could appear that way and I wouldn't really blame anyone for thinking that. They very well could become that though if legitimate leftists completely abandon the issue.

Kevin Young
Kevin Young

I'm butthurt because they're turning into the black version of the KKK
you're just butthurt because you saw someone associated with blm say something mean about white ppl, and you think that means blm is on the same level as an org that was founded to eliminate black ppls rights by using murder and intimidation

suck it up fag

Ryder Cooper
Ryder Cooper

Actually that's incorrect.
The Klan was founded as a social group for civil war veterans then morphed into a resistance movement to fight against further northern aggression and the Yankee capitalist using African freedmen as their pawns to destroy the cohesion of the south.

The Klan did go on and be very racist and oppress the black slaves which was an unfortunate side effect of the Yankee imperialists using them in the way they did.

Now every Klan after that first one I just talked about are indefensible.

Matthew Williams
Matthew Williams

kill yourself fash

Landon Butler
Landon Butler

They're liberals only because we haven't used that anger and that injustice to our own ends, we simply ignored it sitting in our ivory towers, not interacting with the world while theoryless liberals have been.

No they're liberals because they belong to certain layer of middle class minority groups trying to carve their own niche within the capitalist system. They are mot ignorant. They're counter-revolutionary reactionaries using idpol to enrich themselves and preserve the system they have comfortable lives within. BLM is utter cancer and you're a complete moron if you support them. Any group fighting for identity issues within the frame work of capitalism is without redemption.

Nicholas Morales
Nicholas Morales

Is there a site just like /lefty/pol except that people there are okay with idpol?

Kevin Taylor
Kevin Taylor

Wow
What a critique
I have been bested by your logic and truth.

No really you're a perfect example of why idpol is trash

Robert Sullivan
Robert Sullivan

/reddit/index.html of course.

Charles Russell
Charles Russell

Your claim the black lives matter movement is liberal because it's middle class is absurd. I think the claim that it's liberal because liberals are giving it more attention than socialists are is a little more likely.

Anyone who refuses to promise other people a solution to their problems and offer socialist organization as that solution, because they refuse to associate with those problems, is a fucking retard who will make the left weak and without allies.

Carson Wright
Carson Wright

thats basically NAZI you're looking for, but not the gas the kikes Nazi masturbation fantasy now kind of thing.

you'll have a hard time finding that.

idpol tend to turn into supremacy and hate.

Dylan Hall
Dylan Hall

Which by the way in north america we are currently weak, without allies, and not reaching out to anybody all that much.

Chase Wood
Chase Wood

Yes. Intentional opposition to supremacy and hate is the REAL supremacy and hate.

Aiden Morris
Aiden Morris

There are those who hate that call their hate an all encompassing love of all people.

Dylan Gomez
Dylan Gomez

A love of humanity is toothless without hatred of anyone who would harm humanity for their own ends. Come on man that's the same crap my brother's pacifist girlfriend would say.

Connor Bailey
Connor Bailey

so true, the Black Panthers tried to unite black and white communities over issues like housing, affordable medication and working rights. BLM is just a bunch of pathetic entitled little brats who don't know jack shit about politics and simplify everything into identity politics.

even Kendrick Lamar talks about black on black crime on "blacker the berry". People can self-organize to change their community without the state supporting them. People are not just puppets determined by social structures they can change their conditions.

pic related: a real working class hero

Josiah Wilson
Josiah Wilson

why should whites care about racism? honestly. and men about sexism?

Alexander Reyes
Alexander Reyes

To add, we can weed out those people with violence, and love humanity, with violence.

BLM with socialist influence could become a vital step in the creation of a new force similar to the black panther party, a few underage liberals on twitter are nothing, the only power they have is the power we have willingly given up by not seizing it for ourselves.

It's used to support capitalism, and it's not going to remain static, it wasn't so long ago parts of america hated the Irish. It influenced one of my favourite Holla Forums memes

Christopher Diaz
Christopher Diaz

why do /pol/ype need to project their hate on everyone ?

Austin Reyes
Austin Reyes

Your claim the black lives matter movement is liberal because it's middle class is absurd.

No. It's a completely reasonable statement to make. If you were a Marxist you'd understand that. BLM are not potential "allies". They're members of of a certain class using their position and the current political climate to create a place for themselves within the upper classes. We aren't losing anything by bending over backwards for a bunch of reactionaries in progressive clothing. Real leftists should be going to BLM rallies and police protest to undermine BLM leadership and to teach the working class the real source of their oppression and the real reasons behind police brutality. Instead of helping a bunch of opportunists to promote a racialist view of history and society to enrich themselves.

Grayson Ross
Grayson Ross

Ok, I think being triggered by a few, in my opinion, badly-chosen words is not good approach from my side, especially because my english is quite poor.

how can you not opposite the state completely because of the possibility of corruption?
Because capitalist state != socialist state. Fuck, even lot's of current capitalist states work in very different way.
But basically, if you want to have some basic order needed to bring us to desired anarcho-communism, you need some kind of state. ML model is good start, we just need to allow more democratic reformism. There were some people even is Soviet union which tried to do that, but unfortunately people like Chruščov managed to stop it

Xavier Torres
Xavier Torres

Me and a few contacts from various leftist movements started a site about 3 years ago. We're about 100 people and mostly discuss leftist philosophy there, however only people who have read a minimum amount of theory are allowed to join. There isn't really much discussion about idpol but pretty much everyone is okay with it. I won't give you access since leftypol is an anonymous imageboard where most people don't read beyond das Kapital. (Don't get me wrong das Kapital is pretty great but it's standard literature for any kind of leftist). I just want to give you advice. If you're in genuine need of such a community, start forming your own. It'll take you a bit of time but the payoff is large. As far as I'm aware there's no other option.

Jack Morris
Jack Morris

I don't know, they're insecure or something?

No, it's not that reasonable, and I'm not a marxist. The police are a bigger problem for the proles and lumpens than for the middle class, an anti-police movement of any sort is going to have the potential for huge working class support, and it is the fault of socialists if they refuse to use this valuable tool.

There is anger. It is not the reactionaries we should be bending over for, nor should we be bending over at all, we should be directing this anger, expanding its scope, and taking leadership to make the anti-police anti-racism sentiment into a pro-socialist sentiment. This is a god damned gold mine for black comrades.
Defending the police like you somehow fucking believe is a good idea, is not something we should do even if those against the police are a group of violent literal autists who just really hate the colour blue. It is never a good idea to undermine somebody trying to work against the police.

I'm not saying we need women's councils in the united states of america, and I mean ancom and regular communism is technically the same end-society, but I think our organizations could do more good with anti-idpol-idpol than pure-idpol, whether that be an anarchist federation or socialist state.

Jayden Garcia
Jayden Garcia

I'm not a marxist.
That explains a lot

taking leadership to make the anti-police anti-racism sentiment into a pro-socialist sentiment.

And as I've already stated that racialist character of BLM is not due to ignorance or a misunderstanding. It's the middle class leaders of the movement acting in their own interesting to secure wealth within the capitalist framework. There is no potential within their leadership or their movement for any radical left movement. Only an opportunity for the ruling class to use them to funnel the revolutionary potential of the working class into activities that benefit them and keep the population in line.

Defending the police like you somehow fucking believe is a good idea
I never defended the police. I said the left should be teaching the working class the source of police brutality. In contrast, to the counter-revolutionary racial narrative of BLM. The police are a reactionary force designed to defend the property rights of the wealthy and control the common people. Be against BLM is not an automatic endorsement of the police.

Cameron Phillips
Cameron Phillips

It's used to support capitalism
I know, but still. Maybe it makes me a bad person but I just struggle to care much.

John Carter
John Carter

why should anyone care about oppression? im totally a leftist btw

Henry King
Henry King

did I claim to be a leftist? whether I am or not is irrelevant here. how is their stuff my problem? even if i tried to talk to them i'd just get told i'm a white saviour complex

Dylan Green
Dylan Green

Great stuff.

Hunter Wilson
Hunter Wilson

how is their stuff my problem?
it isn't. if you don't want to care about them you won't.

Jason Cook
Jason Cook

ok. am I going to get "walled" or "gulaged" when the revolution comes?

Asher Perry
Asher Perry

You wont get the working class to unite and it isn't conductive to class struggle.

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