Every game is a grind !

let s proves it! and it s easy:

almost everytime someone call X game a grind is due to the fact that:
"he is trying to make a sprint in an endurance race"

thus, even if a game can provide tons of thing to do²², because you want nothing but the end game or a far away objective, some will only use the fastest route thus you will grind.
ex: you don t often hear that battlefield or moba are grindy. surely because there isn t really and "end game" you basically just do one thing and have fun doing it, then it "reset" and you repeat indefinitely, well… not until they wanted X rank.

ex2: elite dangerous:

folow thoses same paterns and every game become a grindy one.

ex3:DA:inquisition:
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²²obviously if they don t, then it s a full fledge grind but thoses arent interesting
for example:
warframe (do tower/survival again and again for a minimum of 40 min each time… and its not even hard)
all the fucking clicker out there

Other urls found in this thread:

google.fr/search?q=grind&client=firefox-b&biw=981&bih=713&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirseKZh8LOAhVEQBoKHdAOBI0Q_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=grind video game
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
twitter.com/AnonBabble

I think op has the 'tism.

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yea well you are free to redo the thread, no doubt you will write is better than me since it may be your mother tongue. or your just better, i don t care

google.fr/search?q=grind&client=firefox-b&biw=981&bih=713&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirseKZh8LOAhVEQBoKHdAOBI0Q_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=grind video game
you should go back …Mr."Edgy hispter"

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Life is a grind

didnt read

rpg is cancer

All games are cancer. Everyone has a cancer inside, everything is a cancer, but it is yet to grow.

Honestly i can't see why Holla Forums loves RPGs so much, it's literally story-driven games.

Might as well

Not every game follows the same formula. Also you listed fucking ED and Cisquisition, first one is early access and the second one is COMPLETE shit.

Early Access is for shit designers who will work on a game until someone figures out they're shit and they get pulled from patreon.

Also, Battlefield and MOBAs are grindy as fucking shit. Especially the newer ones. In the original battlefields (1 and 2) you started with everything.

They do this grind shit because they want you to pay. It's a skinnerbox that addicts get attracted to.

Also you're incoherent and what I can figure out is that you know jack shit about games. and you're either very foreign or very autistic.

I want you to say that warframe isn't a grind and expect to be taken seriously, because then everyone in the thread will know for a fact you have autism.

speak for yourself


you have a brain issue if you think my sarcasm include warframe and clicker game…

and to understand something so wrongly as to even consider/think a clicker game aren t grind game … you really are one fine retard

Is OP going to be from Guinea? Why do Latin-based language speakers think they're so much better than everyone else?

This requires such a high degree of reductionism that it's absurd. If we define "Grind" as "Repetitive action that is required to enhance or enable character actions" Then yes, a lot of games have grind. However, many also do not.

Metal Gear Solid (The PS1 game) comes to mind. You have nothing to gain from incapacitating multiple enemies, as more will spawn. It's more efficient to move through the game without alerting enemies at all. In fact, the most ideal run of the game requires almost no repitition, with no kills aside from the necessary bosses.

MGS 2 and 3 continue this pattern, where 2 marks the first game in the series that requires a 0-death, no-alert run for the best possible ranking. You might have had a point in 3… Except you can only hold so much food at any given time, so you might as well just hunt as you go (there's no point in a large stockpile of food).

4 only has grinding if you're an idiot and want to unlock every single gun.

5 and Peace Walker? Okay, whatever, but those are a genre shift from a pure stealth game to having a base-building add on.

In short, shut the fuck up, lurk more, and for god's sake cultivate a better image folder.

well the grind implies repetition of the same thing over and over to the point of it no long being rewarding shorter. so as long as your experience novelty I wouldn't call the whole campaign a grind. Perhaps when you die respawn retry area repeat and it gets grindy so you take a break.

They forget to check their privilege.

It's not grinding if it's fun.

They call it a grind when it's boring or when it's a chore.

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You type just like that dude from one of the NMS threads who was shilling for Elite: Dangerous.

And yes, E:D is a grind. In order to progress, you need to spend hours upon hours performing repetitive tasks. Anything other than these repetitive tasks isn't nearly as rewarding, not to mention it's not as well fleshed-out either.

Grind is when you need to repeat the same earlier portions more than once to advance to the further portions.
Calling anything else a grind is retarded.

indeed. but then arent you doing the same thing in multiplayer fps ? in arena game ? in rts ? unless you stop at the campaign (who is basically a tutorial) you will just redo the mechanics over and over again.

of course, because they are pvp games , the competition aspect take the lead and you end up playing to win and/or to increase your skill in general.


i think you didn t understood the sarcasm of this thread:
MSG is a grind if you are an idiot who want to do the final mission right from the start.
just like elite is a grind if you want to have a maxed out annaconda (~1billion)
sure you may say: elite is a grind because no matter what you do the mechanics are the same: piloting.
but then just like any multiplayer game (fps, moba, RTS …) you are doing it while improving your skills.

now obviously, in an rpg or any story driven game … you have as a constant reward the story unfolding as you advance so exept this near impossible stubborn idiot nobody would read only the final chapter of a story; and he is missing the hole point of the game but well… some use script and hack in multiplayer game so missing the hole point of a game wouldn t be new


right, but i just show you that with this patern (wanting something that is designed to take time to get) : even something fun can be consider as grind because you just want the reward and the problem is that this reward isn t made to be earn quickly.

if, you change the patern and stop this stupid/childish and stubborn way to play a game. then you drasticly reduce the number of game one would call grindy.
where the only one left would almost exclusivly composed of game where you do the same thing over and over for quick reward and, as time goes on: you have to play more(warframe/clickers)

list me a game who isn t like that .
ED is just not for you because you do not have the maturity for it.
you only have a mecanic vision of it.
for example:you dont see any difference between selling slaves or comon goods aside from using another menue.

you may also just want the fastest route everytime, thus yea. you just just farm 10h per day in high res zone for 5 millions per hours and in a week you will have your big ship
then you will create a stupid post about how grindy the game it.
but by the end of the day : YOU decide to become a chineese gold farmer.
you could have done tons of other thing instead of rushing by doing exclusivly the most efficient way to make money.


i just show how stupid some in Holla Forums can be by calling every game a grind because they want shortcut everywhere and thoses shortcut come naturally as grind.
why?
because if it is the most efficient way, you will do it again and again until you achieve your goal. but if that how you define a grind then any game becomes one.


we agree

Most of them. At least conventional ones.
Every next stage is different than the previous, next boss is different than the previous, so there is no repetition. That's the basic video game design since Super Mario Bros, or maybe even Pac-Man, I don't remember if it had different levels. Reducing experience to basic gameplay elements like "jumping" or "killing enemies" won't validate the point, and is retarded.
If all levels in mario were identical but with different color palette, then yes, it would be repetitive.

what

this tbh

This is so stupid I shouldn't have to explain why. Especially if you consider genres where all the content is immediately at your hands like a fighting game.

Lets talk about Comiket 90 instead. What are you faggots waiting for to be uploaded or bought?

Momio makes some of the best doujins for people who like thick thighs. Too bad asanagi barely ever draws thigh sex.

a trial version of the new Siter Skain game is supposed to pop up.

Oh yeah, it is you again. Don't you have a street to shit in or telemarketer calls to make?

mad that nu male sky is shit eh?

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if you think i m defending this shitty exploration game: congrats you are a retard.

for fuck sake how come Holla Forums became so alike with 4chan ? some even struggle so much to see satire or sarcasm and take it so literally. summer at it finest

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hello Mr.summer
just so you know, when [Anonymous] is in blue, that mean it s sage post.
so why don t you go back from where you came from?


caring this much about the host site when the picture came from there

so many faggot trying to fit in this month…or maybe it s just Holla Forums

You have to go back, callcenternigger.

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This is one of the shittiest threads I've seen in a while

I want that new Touhou Megaman clone. But thinking of it now, where do you even buy these games? I wouldn't mind supporting the devs. I got my doujins from Melonbook but I'm not sure where to get indie games, assuming they're not on that site.


Poe's Law. Also getting upset about people taking your "I was only joking/pretending to be retarded" post seriously when you know yourself Holla Forums is full of shitheads who want to bring 4/v/'s "Holla Forums culture (read shitposting culture)" here is retarded. If you wanted a quality thread, then make something worth discussing and not a joke post unless you know well that everyone can play along.

googling most likely, or following the shop links on the homepage if they exist.

there's doujin manga/doujinshi and doujin games/doujinsoft.

you see a fucking thread who start by saying that every game is a grind,
then proves it by using the shitty way of thinking that some faggot on Holla Forums sprout
a thread that folow the same logic and reflect their shity gaming perception.

and you still dont see that this thread mock them ?
yea say it for yourself, i wasn t pretending anything, you, on the other hand show your lack of inteligence for not understanding obvious sarcasm and even less:
reduction to absurdity
here is for you ignorant murican en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
imb4: " i was baiting -^.^- " yea righ summerfag

the fact are here: during summer there are tons of retarded kids like you and this thread show some good specimen


yea i know my bad, i was trying to make a thread showing the absurdity of willing everything fast, else rushing it then call it grind like a retard who is a trend in this current generation of gamer; but i guess Holla Forums is beyon hope.
if they dont get something they use the "pretending meme"

there is so many newfag that for them: source is everything.

I was just pretending to get these dubs

Why do you start with Example 2 ?

nice

Since this topic is going brought up, just what IS an acceptable amount of grind? I hear people whine about the grind in eastern MMOs a lot but then they praise shit like runescape. What the fuck is wrong with everyone? Tell me how much grind is acceptable.

are you blind ?

oh riiight again, i should have consider summer and add "1" juste like you add useless 0 after the point in a natural number .

Except multiplayers.

unless you call learning the game and the meta a grind because that's stupid

the definition of a grind is senseless, mindless defeating enemies for Experience. Something that doesn't require mental effort or evolution but rather a repeated action over and over which replaces the former.


The only part related to "Grind" would be, for instance, practicing a combo in a fighting game like MvC3 on training mode until its muscle memory.

But even then, no. It's only one aspect and it doesn't replace actual learning, understanding and evolution of the player as they shape and change to understand and beat the meta.

so yes. Multiplayer games are outside your "everything is grinding" theory, and by chain, your theory is wrong.

Did anyone make a dedicated board for C90 yet? Would be interesting if enough anons from there post their loot.

lad honestly you should kill yourself

Never running away from Random Enemy encounters, yet never actively seeking them.

Unless of course, you only need one encounter to level up and you're in front of the next hard important boss or boss in general, which is acceptable.

Do that and you'll NEVER EVER EVER need to grind.

yes but like i said using the logic of thoses young gamer:
they aren t grind until you want to achieve a certain rank.
you will use the same patern (obviously not always in the same order) to win. and sometime you will even lose meaning you just lost your time.

this idiotic logic is about wanting something that was design to be achieve in the long run: RIGHT NOW.
thus, each game who have something like that (and their have, else they don t have "lifespand" as a game and should be discarded) can now be considered a grind.

naturally you will say: "no one is stupid enouth to think that way".
well you would be surprised by Holla Forums ..
like i said, some game are harder to be called grind with that logic (like rpg who give you continuous small reward in the form of plot) but you can always say that the story is just bad and you just want to face the last boss, thus you will "grind through the story"

multiplayer (in pvp) games alow you to (even if you do the same things again and again) become better/increase your skill.
but if you are a retard who only want the shinny rank. you will call it grind.

By the end of the day grind is basically doing something you dont like. a chore
that s why every game can become one.

for something to become a grind you have to:
but more importantly:
> it must be something you don t enjoy doing'(from the start or not)

in vs fighting you do the same thing over and over again . yet its not grind because you like that said activity, because its challenging, even if your character don t progress in itself, YOU, your skill increase.

but in case of an mmo for example where you have to bash 30 mob. if the quest will be easy that it will just bore you and you will call it grind.
in excatly the same way if you play vs fighting game against un-challenging foes just to chave the right to play vs stronger one due to (bad)matchmaking.


in OP i spoke about full fledge grind game.(thoses who where the grind aspect is so big that you can t deny it even if you have fun doing it)
thoses are game where:
clicker are exactly that
and warframe too. exept that in warframe you have to actually be in front of your computer…

ayo fam got any dat purple drank

Nobody will ever be happy. If you aren't grinding for levels you are grinding for items in instances or something. If you lower grind people will just complain about lack of content so there's no way to win.

Lemme tell you about grinding.
We can try and go all the way back into the age of dos game and 16-color palettes, but let's be practical, granddaddy of all grinders is Diablo 1. While gameplay between classes was marginally different, but in reality gameplay was super simplistic and repetitive no matter your class and abilities - you click shit, you avoid big attacks, you drink pots.
Now I'm not shitting on D1, it was great game, with great art style, great music, great if repetitive gameplay, great everything. But what it did is it saw the first nuclear seed of addictive repetitive gameplay.

While western MMORPGs like runescape or ultimately WOW initially tried to be exactly that - online roleplaying games with focus on player interaction and tactics in combat, easter MMOs were grinders. They adopted that seed from D1 and made their games into goddamn grinders from get go. I dunno if Lineage 1 was the first, or not, but it was definitive grinder that laid, or helped to lay, a foundation to current state of video games.

Slowly but surely WOW transformed into formulaic korean grinder, while korea itself kept shitting online grinders non-stop. How do you think financially successful most korean grinders are? Naturally western game devs want those monies. But you can't really get nowhere near the same amount of money with traditional games. So they started implementing RPG elements into everything. Naturally microtransactions followed. Did you know that there were microtransactions in Dead Space 3? Or in Asscreed games? Fuck even the fighting games have micro transactions now, is this shit real?
Yes it is.
Oh and of course it's not just AAA games. Indieshit and japanese game are all also were adopting repetitive nature over the years now.
Even Holla Forums's favourites like Monster Hunter and EDF are based around replaying content. Of course it's done good way - hard difficulties introduce new enemies' behaviour patterns and there are no microtransactions.
Yet.

But you don't need to be a meteorologist to where the wind is blowing.

To be fair, we have no privileges to check.

that s why i m showing why young gamer are stupid calling everything a grind.

obviously there is some really grindy thing due to bad game design:
example: wow
the leveling experience became so bad that the only thing player are searching are scriptd content like RAID.
so they will simply grind until they can raid.

it s a good example because no one leveling in vannilla or BC (even if it took far longer)would call it grind because it was interesting.

but now ?
why questing when you can chain LFD, dunjon who became so easy, that it s not even fun, you would get better gear and exp UNOBTAINABLE by questing in case you want to throw me back my argument about "it s your fault for wanting to become a chineese goldfarmer by choosing the most efficient way"
but since everything is mostly releated to the fact that leveling is just not fun anymore in wow, you find out that the grind is not the real probleme.


true , and it even continue on diablo 3 with the rift thing where you will grind again and againto be each time ven more powerfull.
hack n slash are grindy game but again its moderate by the fact that you are supposed to like the gameplay.
in my case, i juts play marvel heroes with Dr Strange 2 skill bar make the gameplay quick dynamic and fun i find diablo 3 way to limited.

diablo 1 was quite new and kind of create this genre of *be the one man army*. just like dynasty warrior (grindfest at it finest.)

tue but for example: leveling in an mmo shouldn t be called grind.
the problem are casuals.
"thanks to"grind no matter how short time you play, you will always be abble to continue from where you last stopped.
whereass before you had to prepare a couple of hours to do a dunjon; and a part of the casual playerbase didn t even try it.
but that was the hole point
at a time you where a scrub promised to a great future if your work for it
in wow you where a mercenary, and obviously not every one could becomme an elite one doing dunjon and raid alone with the lore's heroes. but for a normal player that was ok because for his scale he was a mercenary at his image, and if he wanted to superb raid item that you could see and thoses hight level player, he knew he will have to strive for it.

but instead of looking at it this way, blizzard decide to remove all kind of frustration one could have for nto having the toy big brother have. they thought it would bring much more player Sthey decide to make the game more accessible.

to the point where now leveling is consider a bad thing.
but this was done to not frustrated the casual who even in an MMO don t want to be frustrate because they dont have time not the will he may not want online friend added to his real life one since friendship have to be nurture to make friends in game.this behaviour then "infected" the normal player.
then, the logic folow

by the end of the day we end up with a classic 2016 point of view where the only thing cool about mmo are their scripted content like RAID… problem is, it s only available at max level, so let s rush. making leveling even more of a chore(worst possible mistake of game design)
leveling, even if it s faster than it use to be, feel extremly grindy until max level, some retard even say:

we end up with solo rpg where ven dunjon and raid content could be done solo if the game add a feature to replace player with NPC. some will even be happy because

but that s an other topic.

btw WoW start falling since WotLK you may not see it , but the number of subscriber hold up in that period because:
old player quit the game and new player joined but from that point onward the game filled with casual and without his solid player base fall continuously from cata to legion.

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Nigger you can't write for shit.

Every game has a core, and -unlike atoms- this core is not dividable. For example: in an arena shooter you kill enemies using various weapons. The process of aiming consists of
A: Seeing the enemy on screen
B: Predicting his next movement
C: Guessing the best point to aim for
D: Using the input device to shoot for that point
Depending on the level of skill the player has at each of these steps there will be different results, but the player has to pass a minimum requurement in the previous step to actually get to the nexz one. If you can't ser the enemy, you can't guess where he is going. If you can't guess where he is going, you can't guess where to aim etc.
In the end shooting in an arena FPS is a test of multiple skills in rapid succession, which can be considered fun. Keep in mind that even the earliest games known to man (running and fighting) are just simple tests of skill.
Thus we know that every game must consist of multiple tests of skill based on one another.
Let's try to find them in other games: Puzzles for example.
In a puzzle game you are presented with a sutuation, a tool, a desireable end situation and a challenge resulting from all three of these.
The steps to solve the puzzle are:
A: Taking in the situations correctly
B: Understanding the difference to the desireable situation
C: Understanding the tools you have at your disposal and what they can achieve
D: Realizing the obstancles that results from the combination of tools and situations
E: Combining tools and situations to achieve a desireable state

A button masher:
A: realize command to give a certain input
B: Give input

Now, what skills are we actually testing here, and how many?
In the arena shooter we test the ability to take in information quickly (A), compare that information to knowlege (B) and come to a conclusion based on that knowlege and information (C), as well as the skill to providr input quickly and prescisely (D).
In the puzzle we test:
The ability to take in information (A), comparing two pieces of information (B) and understanding a (more or less) complex mechanic, as well as the skill to predict a resulting conflic from knowlege and information (C) and finding a way to resolve that conflict (D).
In the buttonmasher we test:
The ability to take in commands quickly (A) and respond to them quickly (B).

As you can see, some games require more skill than others, but all of them have a very distinct loop of actions and skillchecks that have to be repeated. If one of the checks is boring (for example giving output in the buttonmasher) and it is repeated too often, then the game may be seen as boring.

Let's take an analog game, such as marathon running, as another example. The game consists of:
A: Assessing your own endurance
B: Keeping your speed up to the value you require
B is obviously the main part of the marathon. It takes a long time to swim, bike and run those distances, and thinking about the track ahead will never take as long as the actual race itself. Even if you consider A boring, it is not going to take you too much time every time.
This means that every time you run a marathon, you can possibly fail at A, and thus fail at B too, but you still had fun because you enjoy B so much, that failing overall is not a problem to you.
If you hate B however, you will not enjoy 99% of the time playing that game, it will feel like a massive grind to finish the race and get to A, the fun bit, again.

Thus we see: Every game contains a core loop of skillchecks. Depending on the complexity and the length of said check, but also on the personal preference of the player, the game can be fun or not.

Holla Forums tier thread

What are you even doing here?