Should I watch Insurrection or Nemesis? Are either good...

Should I watch Insurrection or Nemesis? Are either good? First Contact was incredibly good and fun for something based based on a shit tv show aimed at Holla Forums-tier retards

Insurrection was like a two-part TNG episode and thus at least consistent for fans, Nemesis was the franchises equivalent to TLJ.

Nemesis isn’t as bad as TLJ, but it is a mess.

Insurrection is a forgettable but fine TNG episode stretched to movie length. Nemesis is a dull, miserable attempt at making Star Trek darker and edgier.

I don't like TNG's writing or the notion of character juggling that it popularized. It's exactly like The Orville except not parody and meant to be taken seriously.
Does Insurrection at least feel like a movie with a strong story-structure?
Ironic you'd say that, you sound exactly like someone from Holla Forums talking about Man of Steel / BvS.

The most important part is it's dull. Dark Star Trek can work. Wrath of Kahn was the darkest one. DS9 got pretty dark in places. Nemesis is just fucking boring.

Fair enough but I'm skeptical. I liked First Contact how they gave Picard ptsd (sorta ruins it partly having seen the TNG episodes that cover The Borg's kidnapping of him which wasn't executed nearly as well as in the movie) so I'm open to them taking the stories more seriously if they're good.

It’s ignorant. The premise is that a clone of Picard became Spartacus to a group of alien slaves and conquered the Romulan Empire, then built a superweapon to destroy the earth (why is unclear).

The problem is Picard’s an excellent diplomat, a good explorer, and a decent enough wartime commander, but he’s not Khan Noonien Singh, even if he wanted to be. His clone turning out like that is a wholly different character. It just doesn’t work.

By all means watch them for yourself. They're worth seeing once at least, I guess. Just to know.
The original TOS movies are generally better, if you haven't seen those.

Insurrection is shit. Nemesis has Tom Hardy as a small guy

It's worth watching all of the Trek films up to and including XI (JJ Trek). The TNG films are kind of action-oriented and if you watch them all you'll get a sense of deja vu. Nemesis has some cool moments, and even though its ending is pretty depressing, you can offset this by reading Star Trek Countdown, which is basically movie 10.5, being a sequel to Nemesis and a prequel to JJ Trek in the original continuity.

You've reminded me why I increasingly disliked the newer Start Treks. If you start with Kirk (TOS), you've got a man who would be Captain Hero in any time period. He'd be a General in Rome, a Gothic warchief in the dark ages, a Crusader King etc But as time goes on, the Captains become diplomats and decision-makers only. Hell, Janeway's just some wise old lady that gets to give orders.

It might be accurate but it diminishes the adventurous/swashbuckling aspect.

I couldn't help but notice you skipped over The Sisko. He may not be much of an adventurer, but he certainly doesn't take shit from anyone except Starfleet lmao

Sisko was the everyman captain. Not a man's man hero like Kirk, or a perfect diplomat like Picard. Just a guy in a difficult situation, trying to get his job done while also raising his son.

you both make DS9 sound a lot more interesting than it actually was

Garak, Dukat, and Quark are what made DS9 interesting, not any of the core Starfleet characters

Kirk's overrated, the only reason Khan got the upperhand on him in WoK is that he completely disregarded Starfleet protocol by not raising shields and in the process got many of his crew killed. Kirk as CO and Spock as XO should have both been court-martialed and tossed from the service following the movie.

Both are shit. Insurrection has nothing to do with TNG and could be a 5/10 two-part episode of any of the shows. Nemesis is related to TNG (it focuses on Romulans, Picard and Data), but is horribly written and the action is also dull. After Fist Contact the first somewhat good Star Trek movie is Star Trek Beyond.

Insurrection is the stinker of the TNG movies. Nemesis is a good movie, and the only reason people don't like it is because Data dies.

I liked Tom Hardy in Nemesis.

All of the TNG movies are shit. I'd take any of the TNG two-parters over the movies.except for the shitty one with Mark Twain

HOLY SHIT….
He was a big guy before we even knew about it.
Picard is Starfleet.

It was much better than Jew Jew's remake tbh.

reddit trash. Simon Pegg was a mistake.

I found it somewhat entertaining, whereas Insurrection made me fall asleep. The problem with it is that every movie evolves arround a certain topic (like ST IV on environmentalism, ST VI about the Cold War ending, etc.) but the topic of Nemesis feels like out of time - seriously, cloning? That wasn't exciting in the fucking 80s already.

I don't really understand why they even went with that as a plot point. Did Shinzon being Picard's clone actually add anything?

insurrection has a fucked up plot where picard protects a bunch of non-native assholes from sharing their well of life science with the galaxy, otherwise its ok, definite drop in production quality from first contact but watchable

I think Nemesis is tolerable in contrast to a lot of people, it is really dragged down by some bizzare writing choices. Baird's directing is ok (even if he is an asshole), but i really dont know why they didnt let frakes direct again, he seemed way better at getting the cast engaged. It has a way better space battle than anything in the nu treks so that counts for a little.

both are watchable if you like the tng cast

He needed Picard's DNA to stop him from dying prematurely.

Yeah, but did that need to be a plot point? A former slave race rising up and militarising is an interesting enough premise.

Clone of Me, I'm Starfleet.

did you even watch insurrection? A starfleet admiral was in the pocket of the native defectors and was trying to capitalize on the science mumbojumbo that made the planet special. The planet was going to die if they let them suck out the resources and picard stopped them because the admiral was corrupt and "the ends justified the means" trope was stopped.

there's more to star trek than phasers and photon torpedoes.

Yeah it showed what someone with Picard's potential and exact DNA would become if raised by Romulans (they did this with Natasha Yar in TNG). The Romulans have always seen Picard as a worthy adversary, and in true Romulan fashion wanted to get one over to make themselves stronger and secure their future. Shinzon was a failed experiment because he was no longer required, so they abandoned him to someplace they didn't have to think about, Remus. The entirety of Nemesis is centered around the fact that Shinzon is Picard with a different background, he's still just as intelligent and driven as the real one, and with vengeance as a motivating factor, extremely dangerous. I think the DNA breakdown was a failsafe built in in case he got out of control with his Romulan handlers.

Shinzon could have just been some guy though. You can be the anti-Picard without actually being Picard's evil clone. The evil clone thing seems like one of those cliches Star Trek should try to do better than. Leave that stuff to comic books and video games.

Every other episode of Jew Trek is an evil clone episode. Riker has an ongoing clone, Data has an ongoing clone, DS9 STE and TOS has the entire crews mirror universe clones, there's time clones, fakor clones, transporter accident clones, everyone has at least one clone if not many clones, Shinzon is just the hot topic clone.

Other than the Chief.

did you watch it? the aliens on the planet were non-native immigrants who were previously highly technologically advanced, they were greedy assholes hoarding a health benefit so they could live in thatch huts.

the federation was just trying to move them. hell even ruafo and his friends were only exiled from society because they didn't want to abandon technology

there's more to star trek than black and white morality. It's not like the baku even had an agreement with the federation to live on a planet in their space, they were illegal vagrants without any real claim to the planet to begin with, they arent native.

ruafo is a spiteful asshole but he has a legitimate side to the conflict too.

Just watched Insurrection. Pretty uninspired story-wise. Dad thought it was shit.

I'm not saying they never do it. I just think it's generally kind of lame, and they should try a bit harder. Especially when we're talking movies and not episodes. When you've gotta write 20+ episodes for a season, there's probably going to be some crap in there. A movie should be an opportunity to refine and build on your best ideas.