How do you feel about this argument?
Isn't all of reality pretty much mostly just "empty space" in the same sense?
Could one argue the idea that the wither or not empty space is wasted space is purely subjective and vast empty space may in fact be intentional to add a sense of realism?
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I'm not talking about Nu Males Sky in particular m8, its just that with its release this argument is fresh on peoples minds again
Sometimes I don't feel open world games are worth it when accounting for the effort involved.
Think about it. The devs of an open world game put all this timeand effort into making a gorgeous world that nearly every player just finds to be in the way rather than appreciates. This is why sandbox and ASSFAGGOTS is so popular. Making a beautiful and immersive world means shit when the average player is a whining babby that just wants their shot of instant dopamine.
That's the whole point of an open world game. You make it a sandbox, define some rules, and then let the players make what they want.
It's not that it's empty space, it's more that it's wasted effort
They tend to focus on the "open world" aspect rather than having content to fill that open world.
It depends
I think Rockstar put a hell of a lot of effort into GTA V, for example
Then you have shit like Minecraft and NMS thats procedural generation laziness with no substance at all
Overall I think people can appreciate a world you can tell has effort put into it and encourages exploration. And once can argue with the popularity of open world shit like Minecraft and GTA that a lot of plebs seem to enjoy open world
An open world isn't always a sandbox though, take many RPGs with an emphasis on exploration. You can't really do that with a linear map
You can make a large world not feel too empty or samey, see fuel
Would that mean all procedurally created content makes the game feeling empty?
Procedural generation can rarely replace genuine, hand-crafted game worlds. They usually end up being artificial and repetitive worlds.
Campster / Errant Signal did a bretty gr8 video on the open-world map of Burnout Paradise, but since the dude's all over the place when it comes to tone of his videos, i'd rather not embed it
for those that care: youtube.com
that 'Game Maker's Toolkit' guy also made a somewhat similar about Burnout Paradise, but also tied it into why Mirrors Edge 2 sucked shit for a few reasons
sage for embeds to jewtube
I wish there were games like that, with open empty fucking space between locations instead of you tumbling down yet another cave/vault/lair/village/cabin/yourmom whatever the fuck like in Tes-series for an example.
Atleast as long as the traveling from point A to B isnt done in an halfassed way and you'd have option to quicksave so you dont need to travel the same 10km's of desert to where the mission takes you only to die and do it all over again.
The Legend of Zelda Wind Waker is pretty much exactly like that
You fucked up.
B-but muh immersion!
In reality if you go to "empty space" you still find all kinds of shit - plants, rocks, animals, bugs, garbage, etc.
In all fairness you could attribute this simply to limitations of both what the devs had to work with as well as the players
This is why I cite GTA V as an example of a good sandbox, they tried making as much variation in environment as they could, wither its differences in tall blades of grass, rocks, or animals
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Only Fallout 3 fags say NV is "too empty" because they'd rather wander the labyrinth known as the DC shithole
So that's what they blew their enormous budget on and explains the meh graphics? Super autistic devs?
Should be every 5meters you doofus!
Though when speaking of TES/FO games i can sort of understand it because the traveling from point A to B is rarely fun due to lack of vehicles and the engine not even really supporting shit like that well. and even moving your character on foot feels fucking shitty in those games
Give them dirtbikes, or something.
pretty much yeah
speak for yourself consolefag
probably
GTAV should've looked more to the TES/FO system of missions. Since travel is actually fun, they could've put in another 100 filler missions.
holy crap, I knew EA would make the new Mirrors Edge bad, but that just looks horrible.
The problem with GTA Vs missions and how they differ from TES is GTA has a pretty linear story line while TES is more about making your own decisions
It's pretty easy: when people say empty space they mean reused assets with no interaction.
Emphasize on no interactions mostly. I'm probably one of the few on this board but i hate gta and similiar title because while the world is big, is also uninteresting. I have no reason to explore since i know i won't be rewarded for doing it, or my reward is the same obtainable from somewhere else easily.
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May be in KnifeDrop or PlagueBreeze but not in current TES game.
That's true. But I'm talking just filler stuff like assassinations, drug deals, escort/bodyguard, drug raids etc. Wouldn't take that much extra programming.
I might be one of the few that got bored of RDR by the time I got to Mexico.
I get the landscape is supposed to mimic the South West but I just found the vast open plains and deserts to be boring.
You mean some sort of random generated mission-system like Shitrim had?
Yes something like that. As i said, since travel is actually fun, it would work… unlike shitrim.
Both VC and 4 had it to some extent.
If you tredge through a patch of shrubs in the real world, each one will pose a unique challenge for your body to maneuver around. In a video game, you hold W until you've reached the other side.
Game worlds are empty because those spans of shrubs and dirt are literally nothing, space defined only by the resource points they separate.
Reality is empty to you because you think in terms of abstractions, not of reality.
its a silly complaint.
the biggest problem with open world design is that, unless it's packed to the brim with cool stuff to do and discover, most of the game is spent traveling to the game proper
I think most open world games are just poorly executed, often purely due to laziness because the open world aspect is just there to cash in on the fad.
A good open world needs varied and interesting locations separated by varied and interesting environments and geography. Honestly, many places in Skyrim fit these bills, but the shittiness of a the combat system and pretty much everything else detracted from them.
Again, even procedural generation could be interesting with 1) a vast enough library of variables and 2) proper testing to prevent instances of unnatural terrain/bad spawn placement/other undesirables.
If the forest is one of nine types of biomes, and the dark forest is one of four forest subtypes, and the hedge wizard's tower only spawns concealed in densely-foliated hill- and mountaintops, and the nature of the actual structure changes depending on which of the five vocations the wizard studies, and the internal layout is randomized within certain parameters and has an unknown quantity and kind of minions, trap rooms and treasure rooms… And the wizard's tower is only one of several hidden attractions in the dark forest, alongside more common sites, rare and common creatures/plant life and rare and common groupings/sizes of them, all occurring according to geology and local ecology of the dark forest, and this is just one subtype biome of the greater biome of the wide biome family…
Truly magical random gen, with the touted infinite replayability, needs more effort than anything we've seen so far.
What's the most complex world gen yet made, besides Dorf Fort?
It's a valid complaint.
What people mean when they complain about empty space is a low density of content. Many creators of open-world game seem to think "bigger = better", but if you stretch the same amount of content over a bigger world then the player will get bored more easily.
The Gothic series is a great example. Gothic 1 and 2 have a ridiculously high density of content. The world seems to be bigger than it actually is because there's always something to discover. Caves, buildings, NPCs, you name it. This makes exploring these games a lot of fun.
Gothic 3, on the other hand, was much bigger in scale but highly unfinished. The developers marketed the game for being multiple times bigger than Gothic 2, but when it came out people complained about most of the game being a vast empty space. This also introduced the need for quick travel which is absolute cancer.
That's pretty accurate.
GTA-likes are one of the few games you can have fun traveling because you need to still actually maneuver the city, avoid hitting other cars unless you are going with a fucking massive truck and if the world is done well enough there's fun things to do like use ramps to jump over shit while traveling etc or just driving over pedestrians and trying to crash as much fences and other breakable objects as possible.
Obviously you'd also need the driving itself to be fun too and cars, GTA4 was bullshit because 9/10 cars you could hijack on the fly were slow as fuck and cars handled like boats while JC2… i think it had some seriously weird physics or something goin on so crashing even once at something and you were fucked.
If it was actually empty space and not just the same corridors or hills for days on end, then it would be fine.
Empty worlds are cool, but not too great to play in, especially when you're likely to be going all over the map and back again.
Find the happy medium. Empty space can work well, but make sure to have something out there to find.
In No Mans Sky one half complains about there being too much empty space and barren wastelands while the others complain "WHY ARE THERE BUILDINGS EVERYWHERE!? I THOUGHT I WAS ALONE OUT HERE! THE DEVS LIED!"
Just sayin.
Dwarf Fortresses macro world generation is god tier, accounting for everything from wind patterns to the shape of the fucking continental plates, but its micro generation for villages and towers and shit is lackluster, probably because it has to work with the gorillion social and cultural systems toady has managed to wedge into the game
But. For the sake of argument: what do you prefer? A small but complete karting track where you compete with other people and where you can chose between two different karts, or the biggest karting track in the world where you have no kart, no one to compete against, no start/finish line, no timer?
Cancer.
Large stretches of nothing where there is no threat to you, no challenge, no thought required, where you just hold W are incredibly fucking boring, a waste of time and tedious. People shit on walking simulators for this very reason. I'm so glad you faggots don't make video games, goddamn.
Most criticisms for NV come from Todd's fanbase. Fallout 3 was babby's first RPG for a lot of them, so they base all their expectations for other games on it.
Of course not. You can study and look at rocks for hours on end. Where are the rocks in my video games?
That's why you put enemies in the empty spaces. turn-based RPGs do this quite well
Reality is a shitty miserable place. If it was that great, we wouldn't be playing video games.
open worlds always suck, since devs don't want to sacrifice muh graphix for an engine that can create real world-scale environments, even if by procedural generation
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Because gamers dont know what they want. Which is why games were better when devs didnt listen to them.
guise this gaem is great
JESUS CHRIST SANDBOX GAMES SUCK I WISH EVERY GAME WAS A CORRIDOR LIKE CAWDUDE
name one
I have my doubts that the difference between players liking an open world and not liking it is finding a walmart bag in the middle of a field.
we all know how much starwars was improved by throwing pointless shit all over the screen.
the make games with "hub" maps and call it a sandbox
japs are stuck on the moviestation2 era
where's that name?
That's even fucking worse though.
You're basically mashing the attack button to end the encounter as quickly as possible and continue on your merry way.
An open world encourages lazy level designs as all missions within the open world tend to be either a linear corridor or a series of waypoints within the world.
I love empty space and walking around aimlessly. It's really relaxing.
Seriously, I thought GTAV's map was incredibly boring, even if it was "handcrafted".
I haven't heard many complaints about it being empty, I hear people complain every planet is so samey.
The buildings everywhere runs counter to what the game tells you.
But you didn't discover anything. You turned on a beacon meaning someone was obviously there before you
Actually NMS is lacking in that regard. Check Frontier: Elite 2 for the realistic representation of cosmic scale distances.