SUDDENLY

more corruption

what's it like supporting the skinnerbox that killed online gaming?

As far as i'm concerned the community ruined WoW.

Blizzard literally did nothing but listen to their community.

-People hated having to deal with other players, so they made everything instanced and with minimal human interaction required.

-People hated the difficulty of vanilla, so they made everything easier.

-People hated that doing things required time, so they made everything shorter to obtain.

Blizzard fully listened to their userbase, they listened to players that had jobs and lives and played the game as a stress relief semi-singleplayer sandbox, instead of listening to the players that used it as an actual MMORPG to live a second, virtual life.

This strategy made them make a shit ton of money, until WoW finally died off simply because it got too old.

And if you think this is hurting blizz, wake the fuck up, it's not, they're making a billion trillion cash dolla off Hearthstone and Overwatch.

Consistently ignoring "core" players and only listening to casuals maximizes your profits, and will keep your company profitable for years, as long as you keep releasing products that cater to them with small little quirks to keep them interested long enough.

As i always say, if you want to be a succesful company, browse Holla Forums, take not of everything that Holla Forums wants, and do the ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE, you'll be filthy rich.

Every time is see this shit I think it's Dark Crusade and I get excited

Fuck

except WoW is tanking.

I mostly agree, but let me just say it.

Vanilla wasn't difficult. It was grindy. Fuck, even Naxx in Vanilla wasn't particularly hard. People even in the top guilds just weren't as good players back then.

Reminder to ignore retail trash and just play with Holla Forums on private servers

...

I was in a US 9th (world 20th) clear of Ulduar 10 through Algalon before they changed the reqs to add zero light (a lot of us as well as ranking sites initially believed it was one of the filler achieves and did it out of order days after firefighter although it was easier). It was fun but I'd not do it again. You can't get to those levels of play in WoW without sacrificing your life to it.

It's kinda fucked. Bard's fun though.

I was rank 14 before honor got fucked.

Blizzard cares more about Overwatch fans than Wow players

vanilla was hard. at least on launch. i used to raid even before blackwing lair was added and man, it was genuinely and truly hard. remember that this was the era when epics were genuine game-changers and were rare as hell.

hell, i remember getting an azuresong mageblade from molten core for my holy paladin and it was an unbelievably powerful upgrade. this is what top-tier items looked like. a fully buffed and maxed out tank had like 4k health. not to mention when you're in one of the higher-up raid guilds and you're the first to a particular raid, and everyone's trying to learn how the fights work

WoW was always casual.

Your point stands, but I'll have to be the asshole to say that Ulduar 10 on hard mode was mostly done for offgrades outside of main raiding time.

So the problem with the games quality is because of skinnerboxing, welfare epics, and handing good gear out like candy?

Well no shit, read my post
Nothing lasts forever, even TF2 died after four billion years of artificial hats life support.

Well, yes and no.
Some classes were easy, some were more frustrating, i played a Druid and there was no dual spec or anything, towards the endgame i specced to healing and it was sort of a bitch because there was very little mana regen until you had specific sets that were a pain to obtain.
Plus since there was no dual spec you basically were locked into doing raids 24/7 and that's it, you were useless in the outside world.

Is it the hardest thing i've done in my gaming life?
No, not really.
But it wasn't the easiest either, it was pretty frustrating especially when the people you were playing with didn't know what they were doing.

10 mans were more difficult and challenging than 25 mans. Prove me wrong.

Imagine how much how the vidya industry would be if WoW never existed.

*how much better

But Holla Forums wants the opposite of what is on the market. So, if you do that, you're just copying what is already on the market. So, just copy what everyone else is doing, like you already have been for years, and stop coming to Holla Forums.

Actually its player count has been at a consistent number for years.

just play wildstar honestly
it's got a small, dedicated player base, amazing customization(not character creation, unfortunately, but everything else is the tits), and it's a great casual filter because people who suck at the game just get fucking facerolled in dungeons because it's an MMO that actually has difficulty

partly, yes

i mean, in a perfect world where sales aren't a concern, fuck the casuals who can't handle a raid to get that hat they want. i used to wear this sword - which had a magical little sparkle on it, which separated it visually from every other same-model sword - and people would whisper me, saying they liked it, where did I get it, good job, man i'm jealous etc. i think everyone knew and knows that wow is a loot treadmill and always was, but there was a special kind of community that was the norm when the good stuff was really good and really hard to get, and it kept people playing and learning to get to that shit or they quit and the community would be stronger because the shitters who don't know how to play are leaving

Ulduar 10 hard up to Algalon was pretty competitive actually as everyone raced it with their best crew to collect data on the Algalon fight in advance of unlocking it in 25 man.

some other dev would have eventually tried "Everquest but for casuals" though

Something like WoW was inevitable. I just wish WoW had been shut down 5 years ago so the MMO genre could move on creatively instead of stagnating as the "WoW-like" genre.

I played Vanilla, Stature of the Gods being one of my guilds. The guild later turned into Immersion.
wowprogress.com/guild/eu/auchindoun/Immersion/rating.tier8
wowprogress.com/guild/eu/frostmane/Immersion/rating.tier15_25

The Four Horsemen were one of the few actually challenging raid fights in Vanilla. The reason wasn't even the fact that the fight itself was hard. The challenging part was finding 40 people who could follow the custom timers were made to yell at their face when to move.

Vanilla was a joke if you had the time. Most people were just shit compared to the top raiders even two expansions down.

25-mans were harder to coordinate and the damage requirements were a lot stricter. During the first week of progress most thresholds on damage were within 1-2% on 25-man while with proper group buffs you wouldn't even break a sweat on 10-man.

Your argument is especially laughable because we're talking WotLK where 10-mans were intentionally a lot easier than 25-mans.

And to emphasize on the 25-man vs 10-man.

During the first week of progress on the tighter dps races a single death meant a wipe. We did those same fights on 10-man with alts outside of the raiding hours.

Shit, fair point. I meant during Cata. The 10 man hardmodes were objectively more of a hassle and pain in the ass compared to 25 man.

They were significantly easier, largely because the lack of the much-hated homogenization back in Wrath meant they had to undertune to not lock out most comps. A pro raid group has alts and can easily make an overpowered comp. But a few fights were still quite tough - pre-nerf firefighter was agreed to be pretty rough on 10 in raiding circles. Then they nerfed both 10 and 25 to shit before most people got to experience it. It was the best fight in WoW and just felt great to execute.

If WoW remained more challenging and the time sink it was, it would've died a lot earlier.

WoW became shit superficial garbage because it catered to the casuals and everything outside of competitive raiding became easy and boring.

Competitive raiding killed itself because the guilds started pushing harder and harder. What used to be 5 hours a day 5 hours a week raiding during progress turned into 24/7 raiding with three different characters. Even the top players left.

Everything that is left are the burning ruins and the casuals who a clinging to the corpse of a game.

MMORPGs just aren't the genre that will succeed in today's environment. The kids don't pick them up and the people who still play them are getting older and having less time and interest in the genre.

...

They weren't if you had the group composition. The tactics were often a lot simpler as well, which was an important factor during PTR and first few week.

Also even if the requirements were equivalent, which they mostly were not, try organizing 25 people and then 10 people. The latter will look like cake.

...

Is Legion an upgrade or a downgrade from WoD?

That's only because caster itemization in vanilla was a clusterfuck.

70% of the caster gear was built around beta game mechanics (gobs and gobs of spirit) that were removed before released, but the gear never updated. Then they starting pushing the +spell damage stat but rather than retroactively adding it to all gear, you mostly only saw pieces in the newer dungeons and raids. This meant the difference between fresh lv 60 caster and a lv 60 raidgear equipped caster was wider than at any other point of the game.

And then you had the throwing shit at the wall approach they took with paladins and druids where the gear and stats they were suppose to collect would randomly change from patch to patch so all you pally/druid gear could suddenly be worthless because you use stat X and Y now instead of stat Z. But the only place that have armor peaces with stat Z is the newest raid dungeon.

Vanilla blew. BC and Lich king was far better.

FFXIV is what WoW wishes it was.

Upgrade probably, but it isn't that difficult a feat.

Except no PVP

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Eh, "PvP" and coop was essentially the whole point of Ultima.

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Ultima was built around PvP and coop so your shit doesn't get pushed in by a bigger group of players. I would prefer an MMO's not try to stretch itself thin by trying to cater to everyone.

Hey fag, guess what:

I like being faced with an actual fucking challenge when I play these games.

You can have fun feeling like a hero as you face the illusion of possible death during raids.

I'll go and face actual possible death against other players wanting the same thing in PVP.

you're a fucking faggot

They needed to release expansions quicker. That game wasn't free-to-play.

Your right user they did listen to the player base, but to keep a game with their current set up going they needed to be far more aggressive with their new content.

I played in Vanilla, was to much of a nooby scrub to really be any good.

Came back in Wrath and had a great time. Solid guild, lots of fun pvp.
Left again after waiting a year for Cataclysm.

Came back during Mists, right after they released Siege of Orgimaar. Played a month, killed Garrosh…. played a bit a broken pvp on that isle and called it quits out of boredom.

...

MAD CUZ BAD

oh my, I feel very sorry for you.

WoW at its worst is still leagues better than garbage like Tera, Black Desert, FFXIV, Wild Star, ect. It's even better if all you want to do is pretend to be a girl and suck dicks, given Moon Guard exists.

uh, excuse me but TERA allows me to play as a loli wearing lingerie.

I'd argue it's one of the worst if you want to only be a girl and suck dicks, considering the dying community, sub fee, bad graphics, and lack of a robust emotes similar to those in FFXIV.

.>>10276484
No, a lot of it was Blizzard's fault. Attempt limits were supposed to limit the life failure going on at the very top but what it did was push more traditional guilds to start doing alt runs too if they wanted to stay competitive. That was how my Ulduar 10 group got started, to gather fight experience on limited bosses lile Algalon and LK to suppliment that of the 25 crew. That was the month where I got 4 hours of sleep a day and raided every other hour I was not at work. That and the similar routine on LK for months burned me out and I'd survived plenty of Blizzard's bullshit before.
In addition, and it sounds whiny if you cannot admit to yourself how deeply petty humans are and how core it is to our emotional state, by making encounters and gear something every shitter had access to, just with slightly different numbers, it took away almost all the status and awe and respect from everyone who wasn't in a top 10 guild. Everyone pretended this didn't matter but it definitely mattered. And raiders started feeling like raiding 12 hours a day for nothing more than a numerical bump and a slightly different title just wasn't worth it.

Couldn't accept the time eating pre-raid farming and even less the week long Molten run: The entire fucking weekend plus two to three day a week evening run.
Pure insanity considering how little it adds to your life, quite the contrary. I probably lived more than you did then.

So instead, i did sport; Glad i did.

No, PvP in UO was a beautiful mistake. They didn't intend what happened, nor did they understand it and they broke it.

They took away all social interaction to the point you could fucking go on raids with dozens of other guys without anyone uttering a word.

It fucking blew at one point.

Better than the current system of logging in for less than 15 minutes every day to have an almost never-ending supply of the best raid food, pots, and flasks.

And in WoW you can be a seven foot tall goat with a dick and face tentacles, so what?

And you'd be wrong to argue.

I remember trying to come back to Wotlk halfway after quitting during TBC at some point because simply no time to play at all and jesus christ the game was horrible, HORRIBLE!

I had to fucking get carried by few friends through raids just to be able to do them myself in partial pug-raids because ;lol you need achievement or no go and the playerbase?
WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?!

In TBC-era you had your occasional shitter when running daily dungeons with randoms but that was still rare but now? Everyone were not only no fun allowed but fucking shit at the game like jesus nothing but afk at Dalaran, no one even spoke shit on top of the Bank's roof at Orgrimmar much less of any raiding to fuck shit up in Stormwind or anything else that's remotely fun.

Even BG's were nothing but everyone completing them with the way that grants most points which usually was the most boring one as in AV just running past each other though i think that started to happen in TBC allready but fuck…

Sure maybe if i had been on Wotlk at the start i might've found _some_ fun but… fuck i couldnt last more than 2 months on that shitshow.

You probably could have solved all of your issues by getting into a guild that wasn't horrible and/or forming your own pug raids.

Fucking chinks ruining fucking everything

No way. In classic I needed to farm whipperroot tubers and shards for an hour before every raid, then farm another hour after to pay for repairs and GFPPs (and contribute to the bank for the healer's mana potion spam). There's nothing fun about lengthy busywork like that. It was just artificially extending raids that were already too long due to massive amounts of trash.

WoW before wrath was social as a game

A-at least I can be an alpha tank and make fun of healsluts, r-right?

crowd control not being necessary anymore so everyone just spams AoE.
casualization beginning so moves were way overpowered and you could take groups of like 20 people
epics and rares suddenly much easier to obtain
leveling revamped to make it faster

and then you get what you saw

I played a bit on Kronos in march of current year. I left because the of the
Hit harder than ever. That being said, the itch is coming back.
Any single player games that would fill this niche? Hell, I'd even settle for some hotkey based shit, as long as it felt vanilla.

l

a healer can usually escape or manage cc without a tank, tanks without healers are trash.

Pretty much this:
And i did join a pretty nice guild though because we only had like 10-15~ actually active members we could only do 10man shit wholly as guild and the rest we had to pug.

Also while the guild had some great people in it we had this usual problem with not being absolute top-end raiding guild as in some people joined in, became active and then fucked off to better guild after they got geared up and got the change which just pissed many including me off.

there were elite monsters and areas that were not instanced and required group building outside of dungeons.
cooperation was key because of difficulty in some places

They nerfed the pug dungeons early on after all the tears about H Oculus. That was the end of pug dungeons that weren't just faceroll timesinks although they did try during the Cata friends&family alpha (I was in due to knowing one of tigole's friends) to bring difficulty and CC back. Didn't even make it to beta.

oh, and no DUNGEON FINDER

ffxiv is objectively better

Talk about broad strokes. Dumb shit kids.

my guild was called the 'realm academy' by the big guilds because people stayed in it long enough to get kara gear and basic raid experience then jumped into a bigger guild

this, you actually had to talk to people, socialise, make friends, that kind of thing (how horrible! t. metzen)

Objectively wrong since FFxiv doesn't have private servers .

this was actually a huge part of the appeal for me. wow actually has/had a huge world and having to actually travel it made it feel a lot more vast in scale and scope than it really was. now you can just gryphon or teleport pretty much anywhere in the world

...

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As an FFXIV player, I disagree. It's headed down the same path. They're just different ages of turd.

I agree, traveling gives life to the world.
without it you have a hundred people standing around not moving in one city until they automatically teleport somewhere.

Honestly if the attempted innkeeper dungeon finder could have competently created groups, I don't think the current incarnation would have ever come to light.

You should be nice to your healsluts. Not too nice, they get uppity once they feel they can get away with it.

Your guild was shit, you probably should have joined a good one if you wanted to clear content without relying on pugs. The people leaving had sense, you were in a dead end shithole. Who cares if you can talk to people and socialize if you're bad at the game in a go nowhere guild?

How is it better if it's just reskinned WoW? Why not just play WoW?

The shitty 1.0 version does.

No, WoW before WotLK was a social game where you connected with the whole realm.

WoW after WotLK was a social game where you connected with your guild (and that's it).

Fuck you op, now that song is stuck in my head and it makes me want to cry

FFXIV is just around vintage cataclysm turd

anything I should know about? are these fucks destroying it more? making a sequel? warcraft 4 nao?

The lore gets worse everytime they try to do anything with it, it's pretty impressive how they find brand new ways to fuck it up.

The guild i was in was just a semi-casual~ Finnish guild but the problem was that the Realm we played allready had another longtime Finnish guild that was actively raiding and doing 2~ groups for the smaller raids too along with some alt-raid groups in the mix.

Obviously the "core-group" from the guild i was in had never any hope of joining the bigger raiding guild and forming our own circlejerk/clique because that was seen as a "threat" so they had to get their own thing goin on but…
When your maintank who has been acting like a total bro, voluntarily leading raids and getting geared by everyone active just fucks off because he got an offer to join the "better" guild and be their cuck tank-bitch for their alt raids and maybe… MAYBE eventually get some loot too he just fucking went and did it.

Some active folks had allready pondered quitting the game because of constantly getting stabbed in the back but that was finally the last straw for that so i just did the same because jesus christ what a fucking shitshow.

And you ask me why i didnt hop in to the better guild too?
I made friends on the "shitty" one and frankly, i tried at first before broing it up with the folks on the other guild and even had few old friends to vouch me up but why i didnt get in?
Their leaders/influential members most had Warrior alts (class i played wotlk) so they didnt want to share the loot at all or relinquish a spot on the alt-raid groups to get some scrub geared up even if he was good pal with some oldfags and was familiar from Vanilla-era too.

fucking blogbost TLDR

i almost had an aneurysm writing that shit.

I only played during WotLK and a small portion of MoP, but looking back, it wasn't really that great. WoW has had the biggest imbalances, bar fucking none, of any game I have ever played. Remember when death knights were OP? Now just imagine them with free twink gear (even when death knights were nerfed to hell they still dominated the level 50-60 BGs because of this gear) and just about every battleground from level 50-60 was loaded with them. To this day it's why I can't take anyone seriously in multiplayer communities when they claim that some slightly better gun/class is OP. Buddy, you don't know OP.

I also had the misfortune of playing on Zangarmarsh. Zangarmarsh was hilariously bad at raiding. If they weren't standing in the fire, they were doing so little dps that the boss would eventually use some nuke to kill the tank. The one time a raid did succeed I lost out on a Grim Toll to a sub 1k dps rogue (I rolled a 99).

I can't speak for vanilla or TBC, but WotLK onward wasn't all that great.

I don't know what to tell you man, I've never been in that situation because I don't voluntarily put myself into shitty situations for zero reason. Not to mention pugging in WoTLK was easier than it ever was before, I had no trouble getting raids together as a leader without proper ilvl or achievements.

Why do you care about lv50-60 random BGs during WoTLK? If you think a set of blue gear from the DK starter area is twink gear, then I don't think you know anything about twinking.

Back in the "good ol' days" people actually played WoW for fun and for the social aspect of it not just to soullessly get new gear.

And i couldnt get into the better guild due to shit at TLDR: and probably because some guys on the hc-guild knew im sort of a "troublemaker" as in if shit's going down unfairly or someone's a huge fucking dick i will rock the boat.
And i didnt really want to join into any international guild either because those arent just as much fun as playing with Finns that dont get mad if you shitpost a bit too much.

Legion dumbed down the game to the point any soccer mom can play it

they didnt even have to anyone could play during vanilla

it tended upwards from launch until ulduar which was the peak, then started dipping, cata was shit but then it came back a bit with pandas which was actually quite good, however it then went straight to the trash can with warlords and legion looks even worse if you can believe it

not sure why youre bothered about pre max BGs, they are notoriously dumb, though you are correct that PvP balance (and PvE but who really cares) was atrocious pretty much all the time, by which i mean there were always 1-4 clear best classes/specs for their role and 2-6 absolutely useless ones

PvP is the only fun thing in MMOs

yeah, but they pruned all buttons to the point you could play with a controller.

They'll make Sylvanas a tranny.

Only if it's atleast 30vs30 open world and none of that 3vs3 arenashit.

So if you just want to have fun and fuck around with your friends, why do you need raid gear? It also sounds like there was plenty of out-of-guild community on your server, they just happened to hate you due to your negative reputation on the server. That's the old days for you. Sad!

I don't doubt it, she already looks terrible.

yea it suck idk why they continue to cater to casuals when they never need to but i am going to be riding this sinking ship till the end

MMO's, as a genre, reflect the state of the video game industry. When developers are good, and when the community is good, they are the greatest games on earth.

Pity that the developers are shit, and the community is shit.

what part about the pre-cata lore rape did you hate the most?
The infamous draenei retcon or the holy trinity shit they pulled with Arthas?

Arenas used to be enjoyable

now its so slow paced since WoD, and so dumbed down

i understand the instant CC was annoying, and the lack of DRs, but even though it was broken at least it was fun

now its not fun and still broken

Those are some wise words right there, user.

whats your Battle.net ID user let's play together

To do raids obviously, thats also one aspect of having fun.

Eeh you are partially correct on the rep probably though i dont think it was more than 1 guy who actually hated me for some reason i still dont know. I have this habit of pissing some cuckest of cucks off by being social and speaking my mind and i lack the capability to brown-nose higher-ups which is kind of a requirement for many top-end raiding guilds.

Think that's disgusting? How about this one?

That's another way of saying you're autistic, user.

In all honesty, WoW would be good for you. You're the exact kind of casual player the game is catering to now.

what is even the explanation for this horror?

i bet he ate a naaru or something and it was too much and now hes good, right?

Even us autists have standards you know

So like, you have this evil thing, right? And evil is just corrupt right ?
So you can redeem it.

New Warcraft "lore" has it so that the Burning Legion aren't the final bad guys. It is the "Shadow Lords".

New Warcraft "lore" has it so that Elune created the Naaru and started the worship of "The Holy Light". She also created the Titans.

rofl perfect intonation

i bet he thinks reverse corruption is a fucking novel idea as well, that hack

wow ruined gaming

that or everquest

The only fault was their own.

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You GET it

I still play WoTLK arena to this day. It's relaxing doing 2v2 arena with 10 years of practice under your belt having a good time with your friend.

dailymotion.com/video/x2wt28c
It wont let me embed so have a link
I tried to find a better site for this but jewtube blocked the music which ruins the connection I'm trying to make here

Playing Pokemon Go during release week gave me a weird jolt of nostalgia. The broken servers and having fun with friends. Now I remember why

NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME RPG THAT I USED TO PLAY

If only I could have as much fun in this game as someone like this.

People wanted housing in Wow, but not the mandated Garrison shit they implemented.

A lot of vanilla's old content sucked. Dire Maul never getting that overhaul like the other dungeons proves that some of the Vanilla content sucked.

Nobody liked group quests. Ever.

If you didn't poopsock or rush your way to endgame, and got all of your attunement shit in BC, you were fucked with the catch up game. If you missed a patch or didn't get to see all of the content before a new patch, you were also fucked.

Increasing your loot's item levels in dungeon was something they should have done, but it's too little too late.

Blizzard barely listened to the players, and now they're paying for it.

This. WoW was made to be an alternative to harder games like FFXI and EQ (FFXI gave you the finger in every patch before Squeenix realized Chains of Promathia was a horrible expansion).

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This has to be bullshit.

Now that is a load of pike. I remember that quest in Duskwood about the guy whose family was murdered. You had to go around, coming to the conclusion that the big bad at the head of the cemetery was a bit too OP, so you had to go to wetlands to get some iron form a shipwreck and craft an item that dispelled him. He was a lvl 32 elite iirc, and I was a 28 warrior at the time. A Nelf dudu and a paladin helped me out and it is to this day one of my fonder memories.

you know what was a fucking amazing community-building event? the raid quests in EPL. nowadays those quests are fucking soloable, flyover bullshit but during vanilla, you had to get an entire 40 man raid together and it genuinely felt like you were a part of something bigger than yourself.

nowadays all the content is just something to distract yourself for a while or to grind for days and days on end.

I had people help me with groups too, but that was a rarity until they were tied to dailies (Wrath and even a few BC dailies iirc). Trying to find someone doing a group quest was always a bitch. I don't miss them.

I bet you dont even know that anduin and wrathion are gettin gay married and illidan is the ultimate hero of light that saves everyone and kills sargeras -BUT HE WAS JUST A PAWN OF THE EVIL VOID LORDS!!!111!!!ONEONE!!!11

I play a blood dk. Healers make my job easier, but it's entirely possible to go completely without your heals in a fight. Just because I allow you healsluts validate your existence by healing me, doesn't make you worth anything. Tanks are far and few, healers are a dime a dozen. You don't want to heal because "muh difficulty!"? Out of the group you go.

You gotta keep em on a leash, the healsluts. Or else they'll think they're really playing the game.

I wish it was.

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If we wanna talk about how unbalanced and divorced from the original game mechanics the game has gotten, let's talk about how WoD holy paladins were damn invincible, were a turret of healing, and could snipe players during their wings in PvP

Have you seen warlocks now? Granted, this is a pre-expansion patch so not really representative of end game Legion but they're over fucking powered. Not to mentioned Mages beign god tier every single expansion since vanilla.
Rogues in PVP are raping everything again.

what about ysera and cenarius being corrupted and joining the legion?

I'm going to preface this by saying that it might be in Legion because I haven't played it enough to find out (literally got the beta a week before the pre-patch). But I've not seen it discussed anywhere else, not even in Chronicle, so I'm calling bullshit for now.

The Void Lords thing is real though. Sargeras snapped and decided the only way to prevent the universe from being consumed by them was to destroy it, because that makes sense. I dunno, corruption or whatever.

because no one wants to deal with leveling warriors, at least in vanilla it was a chore, now it's fucking easy as piss, not to mention most warriors go DPS and in the end maybe 2 out of every 7 go prot spec for tanking

always was hilariously broken, good to know you're someone who had to play death noob to be good

it's half animal so it's furshit, deal with it

because wow is fucking shit nowadays and FFXIV isn't!

I miss WoW, but there's nothing left for me there anymore.

That's a tumblr thing, not a a legit plotline. Wrathion fucked everybody over. If they do go through the Anduin x Wrathion bullshit, that might kill a few subs, since it'll look like more sjw-pandering despite Wrathion screwed everybody over in Faggot Panda Land.

here have most of it as a webm.

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It's not fair user. It's not fair at all.

Why are writers always a hack that resort to this?

They listened to their most autistic community, the squekiest wheel, the spergs who did nothing but post on the forums all day. This is why you take the most "active" forum people with a grain of salt. I remember when the phrase nerf nao pls was a meme and not a comic and certainly not something people took seriously. Instead that's what blizzard and many other devs respond to instead of mentally filtering these autistic casuals.

Reminder that was #34 for the longest time on Nostalrius even though we were shit.

Well it's less that Sargeras was a dindu. His actions are still portrayed as being completely insane (the only way to save the universe is to kill everybody, sure, sounds totally reasonable). Only if they do an asspull and throw in some sort of redemption for Sargeras will it be completely pants-on-head retarded, and considering Blizzard's track record there, I'd peg the odds at 50/50. As it stands, it's just dumb.

The Starcraft retconning was full on stupid though.

Yeah I'll bet that 1% crit to blessing buffs really pulled its weight chum

wow was never good and y'all are faggots

dude I watched that video one of them put up of them running RFC and completely fucking around and still came out

has meme magic out the ass and can win with any composition

Why do you considering battering retards a challenge? Are you compensating for your own ineptitude of skill?

I played all the tanks actually, but I mentioned DK because their self-healing practically makes healers useless. Pretty sure there is videos of dk-only raids clearing out heroic raids.
I played DK the longest, warrior was the most fun, and I've recently moved on to druid. Never done paladin, and only a bit of brewmaster.

Vanilla Naxx was the best WoW ever was. Good dungeon and lvl 60 pvp was the best shit. Rolling into a Warsong Gulch match with the Castigator as a fury warrior and 1-2 shotting mages was the best. I miss that.

There were at least 500 guilds on Nostalrius. Hard to say. We were pretty good in the beginning before Brick and Petpriest fucked us over right before we started getting into raiding.

It's just because we're so good at games!
Don't worry about how many times we wiped BFD the other day!

...

the minimal mechanics of vanilla was offset by the overall difficulty.

back then you had to use cc, for instance. back then trash pulls were actually challenging.

Funny, if this happened today it would be the straw that broke the camels back, game journos would flip the fuck out, the community would implode asking for the head of those guys and blizz would comply and ban the fuck out of everybody

While for them, it was just another friday

Pre-Abyssea Final Fantasy 11 > all of WoW

I witnessed the death of RuneScape.

The parallels between the two are astounding:

The community became shit.

That's the reason, nothing else.

for me it was tuesday.

more of on nost before shut down

Here we go again.

How about you hang yourself you QQ-ing, skill-hating faggot?

No mobility, too little damage to compensate, and they get the one thing that gives them mobility, KJC, taken away in the name of "balance"?

"Balancing" is just a codeword for punishing skilled players.

you're blissfully unaware of how warlocks can decimate anyone in battlegrounds right now, with their insane sustain and utility
like I said, probably won't last and they're probably fine after legion actually releases

Just what they needed since BC - a fucking buff.

Turret casting a shit.

feels good man

A gay couple in WoW. I hope you are making this up.

Vanilla had no overall difficulty unless you think grinding resist gear is difficult, not knowing what threat tables are is difficulty.

Trash needed CC if you were not overgeared, then after that tanks just tanked the pack and everything was AOE'd.

I really don't get what point you are trying to make. Nothing has really changed apart from spending 4 hours in a capital city trying to get a group together. And the fact each person had one character since levelling took fucking forever. Servers weren't connected so everyone knew everyone at the top lvls. Now if you brought that up, that would be a point.

But people talking about casualization, I don't understand.

Yeah, they were between good and great throughout MoP, but I don't remember how well they were this expo. All I know is that they're supposedly good again and they're God tier atm.
If I qq about anything it's mages. They have been pretty fucking good since vanilla. And it looks like they're still going to be good. At least hunters got the shaft, fuck hunters. I'm sad I never made a lock in MoP so I could get the green fire legendary quest

Getting those huge groups together to do something like that was a pain. Even if you are in a bigger guild.
You have to put a lot more effort into the game and get groups together. If you think things like this don't add to the difficulty, I don't know what would.
You're obviously baiting if you think naxx40 isn't hard.
Just check this video to see how easy retail really is.

I played MOP at lunch and dropped it shortly. I can only respect Pandas in Warcraft 3.

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You mean its hard to co-ordinate 40 people to move out of fire at the same time? No shit.

So now its casualized because only 25 people have to move out of fire?

Maybe you should play the games to feel the difference.

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you fuckers who complain about no server community or socialization need to play RP servers

warlords of draenor was shit though everyone agree with that

this would actually be cool lol. I wouldn't partake in RPing myself but it'd be good entertainment. do RP people look down on people that just act regularly?

It's just too fucking gay to RP, in my humble opinion.

Is it time for everyone to recognize that WoW was always shit, or are we gonna kick that can down the road for another ten years.

Not really, RP servers are actually really cool with it as long as you dont go around fucking with people

Why even come in here and start shit. I'll fucking pummel you into the ground you filthy fucking nigger. We both know that is bullshit.

I agree, I had a good time in it.

I love the idea of RP, but I have never seen a good RPer.

Thought I'd share my webm from a private server.

Good ones are rare as fuck and the ones that are tend to be those who get off on it

You can still do the green fire quest, they didn't remove it. If you grind up the book on the Isle of Thunder or buy it on the AH, you can still start the questline. At 100 I imagine it would be piss easy too. The only thing they removed was the feat of strength for doing it before Warlords, which just rewarded an extra title.

it's true, get over yourself blizzdrone

I think a better point to make is that it's a different kind of difficulty.

Having never played Classic WoW, my understanding is that getting groups together and coordinating everything was the biggest difficulty. With no group finding tools or LFD, having to trek to a city and spam trade until you got a group together, then have everyone hoof it to the instance, then pray that nobody dropped group so you'd have to do it all over again made running dungeons a pain. And obviously, herding 40 cats is a lot more complicated than herding 10 or even 25. Also can't forget how some classes were basically broken until subsequent patches got them to a decent state.

Later on, most of these social difficulties were ironed out. LFD made running dungeons easy, and the group finder (and oQueue before it) simplified the task of getting a premade group together for just about any content. I think it's also hard to argue that more current boss fights aren't mechanically more complex, and thus more difficult than those from the earliest expansions.

Now, I can also understand the argument that the addition of cross-realm anything made server communities more diluted. It's not a concern that I share, but I understand where it comes from. At the end of the day, I would rather play a more complex game whose complexity comes from the game design, not from difficulty in social interactions. Being able to raid with flexible group sizes, to queue for dungeons anywhere in the world, or to play with friends no matter what realm they're on is something that I wouldn't want to give up.

But that's my opinion. Maybe they actually will open up legacy servers in the future so that those who want to go back to the old days can have the option. The fact that they were actually willing to sit down and talk with the Nostalrius guys speaks much louder than the "it's just not something we're looking at" they've given before. I guess we'll see.

you know, despite the overly simplified gameplay, i think they could still save the games if they would try to take the lore seriously again
shit like "time travel back to a parallel universe and muh orcs are honorable, guldan did everything wrong" kind of ruined it the most. or that quest in cataclysm with the dwarf/orc/gnome that told about the day deathwing came
heck, have you seen naxxramas in hearthstone? we went from "Minions, servants, soldiers of the cold dark… Obey the call of Kel'Thuzad!" to "Of course I played well. I'm Kel'Thu-freaking-zad!"

What's the problem with this?

Well that was your first mistake. Warcraft has had inherent silliness from the start, from clicking on units multiple times to hear them say something funny to weird quests and encounters in the MMO. Hearthstone merely draws on that to create an entertaining (or cringeworthy, depending on your point of view) card game.

If you want to talk lore, stick to the RTSes and MMO. Hearthstone is really irrelevant in that regard.

That having been said, yeah, the whole Warlords schtick seems to have been pulled out of their collective asses, and while I think they could have done something interesting with it, they fucked it up halfway through (mostly by killing off half the aforementioned warlords before the first patch was over). A pre-shattered Draenor had plenty of potential for cool shit, but it feels like they just gave up and tried to rush on to Legion. And who fucking knows where that's going to go.

But complaining that Warcraft is silly sometimes is pretty stupid.

that's my point though
you go and play warcraft 3 and you don't see arthas saying dumb shit like "fear the wrath of the 1337 king" or sylvanas complaining about how her bellybutton is oppressed
weird quests were always a thing, but they were still respectively sane within the context
in vanilla you'd probably just get some character who speaks a bit weird, gives you a quest with riddle-like quest text
in post cata, you'd get unnecessary voice acting, accompanied by cringy cinematics
if they had kept the silliness to a certain degree, the game could have been a lot better.

There are some private WoW servers that enforce some sort of quality by shitting on snowflakes or retarded behavior. You should check out Wake RP, it's going to open soon and tries to take a slightly more serious approach to the setting, it's basically a custom Alterac (the entire region has been player-built) pre-First War, it looks really interesting and the playerbase has long hated shit RP you see on retail. There's also perma-death for your character so you're allowed no bullshit.

tbh, the best kind of RP for me would be people simply pretending that the shit isn't a game, but still avoiding all the ERP
like, people saying "Hail people of stormwind, i seek adventurers to join my on my quest to attack the secret hideout of the Defias brotherhood! All who join my shall be greatly rewarded and remembered in legends" instead of "LF 4 more to DM"
one of the things that pretty much ruins such RP for me is all the post vanilla armours.
in vanilla i can still pretend that the world is real, and that i'm some holy knight
but in other expansions my character simply looks like some clown, while going around doing random quests that just feel weird and out of place

The Server is all-In Character, that means that the say and emote chat is strictly for what your character says and does, all methods of Out of Character talking between the actual players is restricted to guild, party and raid chat. Sounds like the thing you were looking for.

well, i mean that the whole alterac thing isn't really necessary
i just need to stick with a vanilla aesthetic, rather than all the weird shit after that
like i can sort of understand tbc, since you're supposed to be in an alien world
and WOTLK still stuck to relatively believable stuff
but then you get weird armour sets stories in cata
i'd mostly just prefer a pristine vanilla, with the kind of RP i mentioned earlier
besides, limiting shit to alterac seems like it would make the available world a bit small

This seems really cool. How soon is "soon" though? I can't find anything on their forums.

The best RP I ever had in a game is when there are actual opportunities for people to have a significant number of roles. If you can be more than just a tank/healer/dps. However it is very hard to do in a game that is PVE, simply because the PVE content is much more predictable. If wow was nothing more than a world where you had an alliance side and a horde side, where you started at pretty much instant max level and your gear does not get significantly better, you would have an entirely different feeling. You need a sandbox MMORPG to really have good RP.

This August but they don't want to release a precise date since every server that did that never managed to respect it in time.

well that's one of the reasons i liked vanilla
getting to 60 took forever
and progression was actually a thing
like i'd start out as some peasant in northshire, and slowly build my way up, obtaining better and better gear as i leveled up
now you instantly get nearly the best gear

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Most of the time, the actually silly moments are confined to single quests or short questlines, many of which are out of the way and have no real bearing on the overall story. As an example, you have to go seek out The Day Deathwing Came questline, a single three-quest series located in one of several zones for that level range, and one which you'd probably outlevel before you reached it. (I've also never heard anyone complain about those quests before; I'd always heard people commenting positively about them.)

And if the silliness is in the quest text, 90% of the playerbase is never going to see it because they skip past the text and just focus on the objective. Cutscenes can almost always be skipped, and you can mute voice acting if you just don't want to hear it.

Personally, I think this is a non-issue, and that you're making a mountain out of a molehill that's always been there. I don't think anyone considers Warcraft as a story to take 100% seriously, and I'm fine that it isn't. It's that variety that keeps things interesting.

yeah.. nah, Lineage 2 was grinder. By that logic Lineage 2 is better it is

this word is used so vaguely, what do you mean by progression?

Even in WoD thats not the case. Fresh 100s have to grind in Tanaan jungle for weeks to get barely LFR ready and then grind that to get into actual raids. WoW raiding was and is not hard.

All story past War3x is shit and you know it.

well if the story was actually written seriously, maybe people would
and then the silly shit WOULD be out of place

i mean very slowly acquiring armour and weapons, with lots of effort put into it
not just being handed down shit from easy quests/dungeon farm
and leveling taking a long time. it SHOULD take longer, so that the quests and story actually get noticed, rather than just being a thing in the background
yea, but it's just a tedious, yet easy grind
how often do you actually get something that's challenging and requiring you to do more than simply grind?

There are some disappointed cuties in that pic.

started this game in mop with friends they were big pvp fags and thats what really i did was pvp and i enjoyed it a lot, wod comes out everyone keeps quitting and coming back and overall the epac and pvp feels like shit. legion pre patch rolls around my warlock feels like dogshit and i dont even want to play it. were going to do some raiding this time but i dont expect much. i really wish i could go back and play the older epacs which i have on a private server, kronos was a lot of fun but none of my friends want to play a private server because of muh "what if the server gets taken down" and other gay reasons. the reasons why i liked the game are dead so i might end up quitting again. i wish played this game earlier in my life so i could experience vanilla and other epacs instead of just private servers.

WoW slowly dying is only a good thing.
Now all those nostalgiafags that enjoyed outdated game can move on to some other games or get a life.

Either way anyone who plans on buying these future expansions supports retarded game developing and casual shit.

My friend keeps trying to get me to pay for this, and he actually uses the reasoning that they "finally" simplified the skills and other systems.

He's not the best at videogames, but he usually tries.

Vanilla and TBC were simpler depending on your spec. E.g. Combat Rogues, Destruction Warlocks.

but i liked earlier expansions
why should i be denied my fun

Okay, story time

I don't even get the logic, but that makes me wonder some questions.

Thanks in advance for the answers.

ok Holla Forums i am probably going to quit wow again and i want to pick up a private server. is there any servers that are tbc or wraith and have a good amount of population with high exp rates or level boost?
or fuck it and play kronos but i have no idea how well that server is doing

molten/warmane used to be fun, but last time i was there, nearly everyone had used the cash shop for something, usually DBW or shadowmourne or some other ICC 25 hc weapon
not to mention that everyone already had the best gear so nobody bothered doing dungeons anymore
population was alright though, servers usually had 1-2k people at all times
so i currently have no clue if there are any decent wotlk servers that have a good enough population
i'd rather just do kronos but i wont, because the grind is real and i have better things to do with my time

Stay on retail you casual piece of shit
As if TBC 2.4.3 and Wrath don't already have high xp rates

i think its some gay quest chain in the main zone and some other quests in your orderhall, people will not do them unless they have good rewards, no one cares for the story and people who do will look it up on youtube

and its not going to take 2 weeks to reach max level, wod took 14hrs i doubt its going to be 2 weeks. everyone is going to get max level in one day (when the servers are done being a huge fuckup) then do heroics for the month till raids/arenas are out

i have done my time leveling on kronos, just give me a break for once i dont enjoy leveling unless its fucking around

then why even bother playing
that's 90% of the fun, or at least it used to be

the only real part of questing that was fun for me was the interactions with other players, otherwise just questing alone felt dull

well you kind of missed out on the whole point of leveling then
you're supposed to read the quest text and roleplay with it
otherwise it's obviously not gonna be fun
and if it's still not fun for you after that, then i'd say the game simply isn't for you, at least if we're talking about vanilla

Doing it more than once for each side gets tedious real fast

so start in different zones you dummy
i like the human quests so i usually just roll human and redo them
but if you're bored with them you should obviously roll a different race and take a different leveling path

Maiev did nothing wrong.

if dub she fugs illdian in cannon

Your sorcerous ways have failed you, witch.

I used to fantasize all the time that she'd get bored guarding Illidan for hundreds of years and they'd bone a lot with no strings attached

Top pvp guild in my region. Try again.

He's too edgy, and she's too crazy. Plus she always has her panther-riding-life-partner.;_;

As an altoholic, it get's tedious.
And speaking strictly for vanilla, you really don't have much choice and have to ration quests

A and D set to turn and not strafe.. and a hunter

fucking disgusting

Sorry bud.

Oh i see the players on private servers are just as retarded as the retail servers. I thought maybe I was missing out on something.

SUDDENLY

I'M DOUBLE THE DIGITS I USED TO BE

That's a big box.

Listen to this review it is great.

You would've had your shit pushed in during the days of 100 man raids in Everquest, kiddo. Let's not even go into the PVP of Ultima.

I wish I didn't have such a shit PC back then, getting caught in that was fucking horrible.

Doesn't defeat the point of his argument. Where would the person he's telling to git gud be if he can't even succeed in nuWoW?

I never played WoW cuz i am not a fag

Because that'd require him having an active subscription to NuWoW.

Say what you want but this thing is right on the money.

Everquest tried the 'pander to the hardest of the hardcore' and the result was spending millions on content that less than 1% of the playerbase would ever see and shutting out anyone who isn't an autist no-lifer from feeling any kind of accomplishment.

And the funny part is that all the players who came in because they lowered the barriers to entry and made it require less no-lifing then turn around and whine about casualisation when they lower the barriers to entry for the next wave.

PvPfags actually believe this

Any of you fucknuggets interested in rolling on Elysium once it comes out? Its a vanilla private server coming out on the 17th of august. Just gauging interest atm.

...

Its okay to like this.
My writing skills improved dramatically since then, so I don't really care for these logs anymore.

Thing is, that wasn't

we'd somehow survive those pulls and maybe lose one or two people

Reminder that even Fat Boss is mixed about Legion.

Adding the right video would have helped (third times the charm).

and yet they are making millions every month.
by now blizzard has the money to make any of their games a success just by marketing alone. just look at overwatch.

What the hell is that? I don't remember that.

Take that back you shitter.

I'm guessing you like your women how you like your dubs
with dicks

Blizzards absolute refusal to do anything other than make raids killed this game.

Is this garbage out already? How much did they cut out?

I bet they abandon the Legion plot because of budget and just say nvm it was old gods again

Well that would be pretty hard considering the whole name of the expansion is Legion.

I haven't been in on the beta from the start or anything, but from what I can tell, they haven't really cut anything, or even delayed. The transmog collection got added in on time, the rest of the pre-patch events are arriving next week, and the rest seems to be on track.

Now, they did say they've cut the Thaldranath zone from their patch plans, the reason they gave being that it would have been just another night elf/druid zone, and it wouldn't have really stood out from the other zones on the isles. They said they have other plans for patch content, and I'm hedging my bets on Kul Tiras. It was never added to the map originally, it broke away and floated out to sea during Cata, and it's conceivable it would be at about the same area as the Broken Isles. Plus it's something people have been asking about for years now, and with the whole expansion being a big nostalgia trip anyway, it would be a golden opportunity to add it.

cant wait for greymane to kill her

Zandalari Third Faction When?

They made a transspecies womyn warchief.

I already knew about that, but I still don't have proof that they are actually gay.

I've seen retards on the WoW forums talk about how they want to get rid of factions. So probably never due to the fact that Blizzard wants to pander to the lowest common denominator.

It's because there is none. It's literally just shiptards being shiptards.

Hell, I don't even know if Wrathion comes up at all next expansion, but admittedly I haven't been looking at datamining much.

Let's just hope those Blizzard cucks haven't softened the old man up too much, he isn't the same "BUILD THE WALL" type he used to be. I could imagine Blizz trying to cheat Greymane out of avenging his son, or making him bow down to the Horde cock in the name of 'peace' for Anduin while Prince Liam (God bless the glorious bastard) spins furiously in his grave.

shut up alliance cuck

Is Legion better than Cata or Mists or even worth the 60 bucks to come back?

If you have to ask, then yes, it will pretty much smooth out what's left into something enjoyable.

From what I've seen, it's better than Warlords, which is good enough for those currently playing. I think most people's main concern is exactly how artifacts will play out in the long term, particularly for those who plan on playing multiple specs. They've said there are catchup systems in place, both for early players who want to level additional artifacts and late players who need to catch up to get on par with everyone else, but it remains to be seen how that will work out in the long run.

The other concern is patch content. They've said they've already got plans for patches and aren't going to do a repeat of Warlords' terrible post-launch drought, and I know that it's possible for them to pull that off (hell, if it weren't for the year we spent in SoO, Mists would have had a pretty good content release schedule). If they can keep new things coming consistently between launch and 8.0, then they'll alleviate a lot of fears.

Most everything else, I have cautious optimism for. World quests look a thousand times better than the abominations that were the daily quest overload in Mists and the apexis dailies in Warlords. The new dungeon systems seem to keep dungeons relevant throughout the expansion, and should also let them add new dungeons without making older ones obsolete. And the loot changes should hopefully keep all content relevant; while the highest tier of raiding/mythic+ dungeons you can do will give you a more consistent chance at better gear, there's still a chance that any other content can give you good shit too. The wardrobe is also a great addition.

But again, it's all speculation until it pans out. If you're on the fence, I'd suggest waiting until it's been out for a while to see if it's worth going back. It also might go on sale over Christmas, so there's that.

Don't you have a strong womyn leader to prepare for, Hordie :^) I'd get that lube ready, Sylvanas' plot armor is going to need some more friendly faction leader blood to keep her intact through the expansion.

That's not very hard.

I just bought this game from a Value Village, I understand the 40k hype now

this shit wouldnt fly even on cuckchan

Consider suicide

PVP in MMOs is the stick to the shiny gear carrot. If you don't grind for that PVP gear or pay to win, some 12 year old autist will teabag your corpse and say disparaging things about your mother. Also, you know what happens to the PVE game when the devs "balance" for PVP, right? Hint: it goes to utter unredeemable shit. Literally the cancer that killed the genre.

Lol Tigole Bitties. Me and some friends used to make alts on his server (we were on Quellious) with names mocking him and/or his guild whom we'd log on now and then and /tell him various unsolicited slurs. Fuck if I know why now. Reminds me I need to go back and read all the Legacy of Steel/Fires of Heaven/Afterlife guild sites and blogs again. There's some good nostalgic drama in them.

I didn't say that was a high bar or anything.

Well thankfully they've FINALLY decided to balance PVE and PVP separately. PVP gets stat templates that cause everyone to start on the same level, so you don't have to grind for gear just to get started. And since they only apply to PVP, the values can be tweaked independently, which should prevent either side from getting fucked over due to balance. No more PVP gear means not having to carry multiple sets of gear to not suck at PVP, though your average ilvl will still give minor increases to your stats. I believe that tier bonuses and trinkets will be disabled as well. I'm mixed on honor talents, but I guess it depends on how fast you unlock 'em. Glad they also made the PVP trinket a baseline spell, you get it when you enter your first battleground. And they FINALLY nerfed the human racial, that only took four fucking expansions.

I mean, as I've said before, time will tell if this actually works out, but this might be the first expansion in a long while that I actually do PVP regularly (keyword: might). Between needing to keep extra gear around and balance sucking constantly, it just hasn't been worth it.

what a gay comic, im not reading that

Weebshit VN image automatically invalidates your opinion, whether I'd have agreed or not.

You should consider going back

cool story Holla Forums

Rather be a nazi than unloved weebtrash

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reminder Holla Forums is making it's own TBC server

Actually as someone who has participated in both hardcore vanilla raiding and current day mythic raiding you are full of shit. Most bossfights nowadays consist of Don't stand in the fire. Oh and the ever complicated: If one tank has a giant arrow over his head the other tank has to taunt the boss. The only difficulty is derived from the fact 19/20 of your other raidmembers will be mouthbreathing retards and I say that as someone who has done the complete season of Brawlers guild even though one fight was literally impossible due to a glyph bugging out the fight. So yeah the game actually is casual as fuck and pretending to be a Method member won't make your shilling any less apparent because even the top raiders have over 50 mythic Archimonde kills.

Molten Core was very quick once you knew it inside and out. Complaining about progression taking time is kind of besides the point.

Once we were doing BWL our MC runs were over in a few hours, and that was with half the raid AFK on autofollow. Really, the AFKing in 40 man raids was the biggest problem. You could never actually get 40 people to pay attention all the time, even in good raids. When you did, miraculously everything went well and shit was easy.

Good one user. It might be good if it had actual endgame and the overall experience wasn't worse than playing WoW.

Wow has bought me some good times. I will remember it fondly for what it was, not what it has become.

they've come out with two, soon to be three, free endgame expansions and 'overall experience' is fucking subjective as shit

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Good times.

If you are going to insult a game at least attack its flaws.

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I reckon you guys didn't like what he had in store?

I kek-ed

i thought the end game was generally thought to be where the game shines, but it 'failed' because it didnt pull punches and babbys couldnt do it so they ragequit

One of these things is not true.

Going along with what said, if you're gonna bitch, bitch about some actual flaws, not just make up something on the spot.

Professions have had more things added than ever, and they finally moved away from every single profession using a daily cooldown.

Garrisons -> order halls had nothing to do with garrisons being "too hard to grasp," particularly since all you needed was an addon like Master Plan and it became completely foolproof. The replacement instead was all about garrisons providing better rewards overall than any other activity (with only raiding providing gear at a higher rate), while only requiring a few minutes of time investment. This high reward/time ratio ended up outclassing pretty much everything else in the game. Order halls are instead designed to supplement your time playing the actual game, unlocking quests or giving you a bodyguard or extra abilities in a particular area.

While I'm not 100% fond of the whole "unlock flight through achievements" system and would gladly return to just forking over some gold at max level, I admit that it makes some sense to prove you went out and experienced the world at the ground before you can take to the skies. And at least they're being upfront about it this time, instead of dragging their feet and communicating terribly as they hem and haw around their decision.

The requirements aren't even all that steep for the first step: explore all the zones, complete the major storylines in each zone, complete 100 world quests (there are so many up per day that won't take more than a week or two), complete a single order hall campaign (which finishes shortly after you hit max level, if I remember correctly), and hit revered with all six main factions. None of the factions are gated (like the stupid gating in Mists), and I believe you get a good amount of rep with each as you quest. After that, it's mostly just keeping up with emissary dailies, which just require you to do a few world quests in a specific zone, and the emissaries stick around for a couple days if you don't sign in on a particular day. And it's not like you have to hit exalted or anything, just revered. Overall it seems pretty painless.

I know the thread's sliding off the board, but I felt like rebutting.

If you want the best campaign, give Winter Assault a try. Imperial Guard, ho!