Technology in Anarchism: Prim vs Transhumanism Thread

What do you think of Anarcho-Transhumanism and Anarcho Primitivism? Does Technology have a role in liberating you or seizing the means of production. Or does civilization, like capitalism, just cause nothing but explotation and destruction?

Why not have totalitarian primitivism?

A meme

Technology IS the means of production stupid user.

Exploitation is within civilisation. Technology (Economy dependent atleast not small scale) only reinforces exploitation to more effective means.

Primitivism is nothing but the most extreme form of reactionary thought, so reactionary you want to go back to the stone age.

Primitivism:

Transhumanism:

Primmies are retarded and transhumanists are extremely unrealistic.

Trans/posthumanism and automation is what the left needs to reorganize around.

Technology is rapidly destroying the proletariat and will intensify class divides while preventing revolution, unless we manage to properly direct it and steer it. When the transition to the technological stage begins it is imperative that we are in the drivers seat, everything else is irrelevant by comparison.

The Left can give transhumanists a nice shot of realism as well and make them into a more pragmatic force for good.

Since when is Feudalism, Primitivism?

The thing is, to steer technology you need to command the economy. And sutch thing is impossible for the workers before the revolution.

We need to actually acknowledge how automation is going to affect the economy and bring about the Economic Singularity in which labor is eliminated from the equation. This is the biggest threat to the well-being of the vast majority of humanity (perhaps more so than climate change) and needs to be moved to the front of our strategies.

Certain strategies like UBI can delay the worst effects of such an event but only revolution can bring out the positive ones for everyone.

This event is coming sooner than people expect (it has already begun with automatic cars) and once it passes us completely we are already dead and may as well give up, unless whoever is in the drivers seat takes pity on us (fat chance.)

Primitivism is just as retarded as reactionary thought in that it thinks it can somehow turn back the clock against the force of super-capitalism, which has destroyed everything else that ever got in its way of eliminating humans from labor. We have to try very, very hard and be very, very lucky to ensure that the end of capitalism is good for everyone. Otherwise, we will see communism emerge not as a victory of the proletariat, but by their utter annihilation.

Why does Holla Forums hate primitivism exactly?

both are cancer

Why don't you ask the Indians how that turned out?

This is like ancaps expecting that once you get rid of the state coercion will simply go away and nobody will step in to fill the power vacuum.

Though tbh I'd live in precolonial Polynesia if I had the choice.

99% of the population would have to die to achieve it and if you leave us in a primitive state for long enough you get modern society!

I'd prefer Transhumanism tbh. Less chances of me getting diseases.

10/10 ideology tbh fam

We are headed that way anyway with the climate crisis and global capitalism


Well tribal boundaries and cultures would take over so yes something would fill the vacuum.

Do you not know how to backlink? click the little number thing in the header of my post.

"It's happening anyway" is liberal tier logic comrade. The elite will probably sequester themselves into robot-fortress cities and the rest of us will die. Capitalism is an alien invasion and it will never give up until it is finished comrade.

Civilization was a mistake, but it's too late to go back now.

Transhumanism would be an even bigger mistake, one that must be averted.

Basically I'd rather be a monkey than a robot

Why don't you want to be a robo-god?

solid post user

Thanks fam.

Remember technology is not just a tool, but something with intention, the potential for technology to save us also gives it the potential to damn us into eternal slaves of an impersonal productive force.

anprims are ancaps who don't know how to computer

The future is going to be fucking awesome every one will become cyborgs.

Nah I'll take my cybernetic body, terminator penis, automated everything, and designer babies over that trash.

Hahaha
Why was civilization a mistake you fool?
Would you prefer if humans lived in filthy huts/caves, shitting everywhere?

Why would you want that?
I prefer my body over becoming some machine.

Transhumanism assumes we have a successful revolution in time to not be wiped out by bourgs or enviormental collapse. Still after a sucessful revolution transhumanism would become more likely and sounds fucking awesome.

Primitivism is like AnCapism, in that their "utopia" sounds like a fucking shithole. I mean even if you go back to just 17th century tech it's a godawful amount of work and higher chance of dying. Why anyone would want to live in any less than good modern conditions is beyond me.

This is absurd. Higher levels of unemployment doesn't mean the proletariat is disappearing, since the proletariat isn't purely defined through wage work, but rather through dispossession.
The unemployed are proletarians too.

I can understand the appeal even it has with some people, even if I don't personally believe it is viable. You just have to really like the outdoors and going camping. I am honestly surprised that Holla Forums hates primitivism so much.

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What is tribal violence.

It isn't always just peachy like that, the weather can be a bitch.

These features are not exclusive to primitivism, and god knows tribal cultures can be insane themselves.

On water and food, that doesn't always apply and things that look clean can still have nasty shit in it.

One may argue that nature as we've been able to see it has a similarly powerful beauty as well.

Forgot this entry.

A paleolithic life isn't the only path to this.

What I mean is that there wouldn't be wars that would kill millions of people like the First and Second World Wars.


People lived in primitive societies in some of the most brutal environments known to man. You think they wouldn't know how to deal with midnight thunder?


No but primitive societies have lasted for much longer than ancom societies which only last for like a few years. Primitive cultures are insane because humanity is insane.


Again, humanity lived the hunter gatherer life style for over 200,00 years. There would be ways to deal with water and food purification.

Those are two extreme positions, it's not either/or. Technology enslaves insofar as it becomes more than an ordinary tool like a hammer. Today it has become the central organizer and mediator of social relations and it is impossible to fight back anymore. There's nothing we can do except to hope for its eventual self-collapse.

Both are shit. Primitivism is self explanatory, but transhumanism seems too popular around here.


I used to be a transhumanist when I was 14 because it was "whoa so awzum u can do anytin u want n becum a GOD! then teh singularity will cum in 2045 or earlier cuz kurzweil said so" but then I realized the massive amounts of problems it would bring.

For one, mind uploading has no sure way of actually working. Even if the far-flung idea of actually uploading a human brain to a robot is actually successful, there is no way to know if the real you is actually dead and is replaced with a robot who THINKS it is you.

The abundant ethical issues (but dude, you will be SUPARMAN!!! who cares??) that comes with it is also sure to cause conflicts if these technologies go unregulated. Designer babies are a good example, because it lets parents select traits that the child has no say in. Should these technologies go too far, allowing anyone to become a god, the least bit of violence would cause untold devastation, especially for those who have chosen not to augment themselves.

Transhumanism is nothing but a progress trap waiting to blow, make sure it fucking doesn't. I'd even rather have primitivism, where at least humanity (ideally) doesn't go extinct in a search for individual "progress".

In absolute numbers this might be true but if you compare the share of deaths between big scale wars and tribal warfare there is no competition.

You see that tribal wars sometimes kill more than half of all adult males involved while the WWs didn't even scratch the 10% of all populations involved.

Agreed. Primitivism is not as much a bad idea as one which is entirely impossible to realize.

Technology will cause massive problems and very soon too.

The idiots thinking they'll become a god are forgetting that they'll be competing with everyone else for resources and there will be no limit to the resources a single individual can consume. If any imbalance of power is allowed to develop you will be at the total mercy of the more powerful and they will be able to totally control you, even down to the molecular level if they so desire.

I am not convinced transhumanism-communism is stable unless human consciousness is partially unified.

We will achieve immortality, our organic body and all it's flaws and susceptibilities wont be a limiting factor any more.

you have to go back

Just made this.
Kidna relevant to the thread.

luddites are kind of a nonproblem. They will literally go extinct.

A lot of what you describe as catastrophic defects is precisely what I hope for to happen, if we go down that route.
The true danger for me is that it will be so perfect in removing all conflicts and problems that human beings will turn into mindless organic machines due to lack of any struggle and challenge.

So I guess this is thread where we talk about surviving AGW?

There should be Paul Virilio on that list as well. The Information Bomb is very relevant and also one of his most well known works. Not that hard to read either.

What will inhibit formation of new feodalism? Fairytails about how bad it was before everybody abandoned technology? Culture full of taboos and mind-numbing rituals to ensure that noone would try to reinvent everything, salvage what's left of cities and rebuild the worst forms of exploitation because they would have wastly superior technology.
I found a glock 17, a few mags and a manual with pictures bacause americans are dumb and the manual contains picture for every single operation including how to lubricate. Elders are dead, everyone who disagrees that I'm a living god dies too. My close friends and lovers guard me when I sleep. What are you going to do?

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Member when we had these threads more

member when this board had full primmie/transie shitflinging

i member

someone provide an argument against transhumanism and similar highly developed technology that doesnt boil down to "but ppls might do bad things with it!" (because it's not an argument)

pro tip: you cant

Yes, that's a shitty non-argument that always derails discussion from the real issues that are inherent in certain forms and applications of technology regardless of intentions. But any actual criticism is always labeled here simply as technophobia or "you want us to return to the caves" and stupid shit like that, there's no real response to it. Most people fully believe in the ideology of the system when it comes to technology, they believe what MSM and marketing tells them, because they perceive technology as beyond politics and ideology. They often perceive it as new shiny toys (consumerism had made especially a lot of imageboard users very infantile, let's be honest).
So it's pointless to argue about it here. Making one brainwashed idiot reflect a little is not going to change anything anyway.

But whoever is interested can start by watching some of Evgeny Morozov's talks on youtube. He shows how transhumanist type of ideology is related directly to neoliberalism and prevention of any political change by simply managing the system at the level of individual effects - roughly what he calls "solutionism". And Morozov is just scratching the surface.

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user didn't say that at all, you fucking retard. This is why you transhumanists are such religious fundamentalists. Any negative reaction to any one of your delusional ideas must be attacked as a complete rejection of progress to preserve the purity of the whole transhumanist religion.

Just off the top of my head,

Rampant disease (enjoy your STDs with all that sex you'll be having!), short life spans, death and misery for anyone not strong enough, tribal violence, prosecution of the mentally ill and feeble, destruction of long term knowledge, decay of the arts, a culture based around tribalism, an inability to properly respond to natural disasters, the loss of the genuine wonders and marvels of modern medicine, etc. etc.

And don't worry. Modern day tribal cultures are a total nightmare in regards to women's rights, treatment of homosexuality and gender and ethnicity.

And when the other tribes decide to shake off the spooks you cling to like a religion and advance their technology in the weaponry department, you'll be more dead than the dinosaurs. Unless you somehow develop a universal culture of pure philistine paranoia, in which all technological development results in execution, advanced technology will simply come back at some stage. Enjoy having your land seized by the people smart enough not to have embraced being philistines.

I'm not even a transhumanist, bro.
But, that did seem to be implied.

meme


Bigger meme. Deus Ex.
also will happen in normal anarchism, humans are curious, creative & inventive creatures. It's inevitable that the intelligent ones are going to work on better tech.

Transhumanism is a bigger danger than primitivism though, as it is pushed by Silicon Valley, entrepreneurial ideologists (e.g. TED Talks) and various corporations marketing and selling self-enslavement tech to common consumers.
Whereas primitivism simply can't happen and can therefore be ignored as irrelevant.