Can we have a non-meme discussion of this event? I think there was genuine...

Oliver Morales
Oliver Morales

Can we have a non-meme discussion of this event?
I think there was genuine significance in the size of it.
People love to meme about the US government trying to subvert it - but I think that even if that is true - the environment had to already exist for it to fall apart as a result.
What did we learn for next time?

Other urls found in this thread:

humanevents.com/2011/10/21/george-soros-funds-occupy-wall-street/
washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/
wagingnonviolence.org/feature/how-to-learn-nonviolent-resistance-as-king-did/

Josiah Campbell
Josiah Campbell

No progressive stack

Kill all cops

Jaxson Adams
Jaxson Adams

this tbh

and if you aren't bringing guns to your protests then it's doomed to fail

Carter Wright
Carter Wright

As a non-burger: what was actually the ideology and practice of OWS beyond the simple slogans of "99%" and setting up tents? It seems to me that there was actually no ideology or practice at all, merely a drive to go out on the streets for the sake of it. Just like any other today's demonstration reduced to pure protest signs which taken all together only signify a lack of politics behind them.

Gabriel Wilson
Gabriel Wilson

it was the spontaneous gathering of many different people with many different grievances and many different theories about how to fix them

Bentley Russell
Bentley Russell

Pure ideology.

Angel Scott
Angel Scott

Burgers were experimenting with the ideas of protest and revolt, something they never really developed, let alone the notion of revolution which is foreign to them. And by foreign I mean it in the literal sense.

For example, they were very surprised to see law enforcement officers violating the laws they allegedly protect, including the protester's very own human rights, because they still believed those ideological idiocies are of any substance, and for some reason would really apply to people that ask too many questions.

To be honest I don't think they even learned their lesson then, and I'm positive too many of them still believe it was the occasional rogue cop watching too many action movies. Clearly. It must be only correct interpretation.

OWS was a baby trying to stand up for the first time, getting pushed down and around by the jealous big brother.

Samuel Miller
Samuel Miller

People love to meme about the US government trying to subvert it - but I think that even if that is true - the environment had to already exist for it to fall apart as a result.

That's one of the dumber things I've heard about OWS

It got subverted inside and out and at the same time attacked by police. it was vulnerable insofar as it was actually an extant thing, and people didn't think the government would actually do something that dirty and underhanded

It's like saying "its your fault for being murdered cause you're mortal"

Adam Perry
Adam Perry

The intelligence community wouldn't have subverted it to the degree it did if it didn't pose some sort of threat.

Jaxon Bennett
Jaxon Bennett

OWS was the first time I had ever seen weaponized idpol deployed en masse, which is all the proof you need that it's an establishment ideology.

If you want to succeed next time, tell the postmodern hipsters to shut the fuck up and let the adults talk.

Nolan Wilson
Nolan Wilson

The impression I got was it didn't start out as IDPol, but unfocused rage borne from the fact that we were clearly getting shafted. However the lack of direction, of what they hoped to achieve, left a vacuum. And here is where IDPol shitters subverted the original movement. Essentially if you want them to achieve anything next time they need a list of demands that can focus their energies.

Samuel Parker
Samuel Parker

I saw it more as idpol idiots were bussed in to destroy it, pretty much by the end of the first month. It was a very sudden and dramatic shift and I do not blame it on poor leadership.

Daniel Carter
Daniel Carter

I wasn't there so you could be right. Is tehre any confirmation they were bused in as part of an agenda? Sounds too smart for the state.

Hunter Edwards
Hunter Edwards

No woman, end of lesson.

Joseph Ramirez
Joseph Ramirez

Chris Hedges claims to have video of agents coming out of the back of FBI vans dressed as black bloc anarchist. They then went on to instigate violence against police, which prompted a violent crackdown in response.

Noah Watson
Noah Watson

Chris Hedges also doesn't know what black bloc is.

OWS taught us that people can organize and do cool shit outside of what we're told is the normal methods.

Occupies did a lot around the world and states were surprised and didn't know how to address them. Now, I think occupy as a strategy is old hat so something new has to come about.

Cooper Gutierrez
Cooper Gutierrez

its another protest movement devolves into kill all cops episode again

Adrian White
Adrian White

They weren't violent enough. They honestly thought holding signs qualified as revolutionary action and would do anything.

Parker Allen
Parker Allen

The idea that the government is bussing in cops dressed as protesters to break windows sounds much more likely that bussing in social studies students. It's just much more in line with their kind of thinking and about as sophisticated as they can get without a full COINTELPRO scale program.

No, really all those IDpol shitters were just normal social studies students, the product of American Academia identifying, analyzing, and proposing solutions for problems int the only way they know how.

Samuel Hernandez
Samuel Hernandez

devolves into kill all cops episode again

Had it done that it would have been the best day of my life

James Williams
James Williams

it didn't start out as IDPol, but unfocused rage borne from the fact that we were clearly getting shafted
This reminds me of something else that's hard to imagine considering the idpol toxic waste dump it's remembered as now: Surprisingly large numbers of Tea Party Republicans were also attracted to it at first, lured by hostility toward the banks, their bailouts, poor financial regulations, and nascent agitation for a homeowner bailout.

OWS could've been B████crats indoctrinating Trumptards, years before the flaming trashcan was kicked over.

Samuel Campbell
Samuel Campbell

That's exactly the function of idpol: It destroys communication and organization.

Colton Bailey
Colton Bailey

Kill all cops

Why are anarkids so edgy ?

Luis Campbell
Luis Campbell

Why are bootlickers so delusional ?

Christopher Lewis
Christopher Lewis

It seems to me that there was actually no ideology or practice at all, merely a drive to go out on the streets for the sake of it.
To be fair, this is how a lot of revolutions start out.

Grayson Kelly
Grayson Kelly

You don't even have to look very far for evidence if you follow who is funding these idiots. It's the elite, naturally.

humanevents.com/2011/10/21/george-soros-funds-occupy-wall-street/

washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/

Xavier Robinson
Xavier Robinson

Americans are very un-theoretical and suck at organizing, but to say they're unfamiliar with protest and activism is to show complete ignorance of american history tbh.

Adrian Richardson
Adrian Richardson

Sounds too smart for the state.

oh child

Dylan Torres
Dylan Torres

You know how, in retrospective, we can always tell a moment or event when two different prevailing trends within socialism start to emerge, and how their differences seem minor and remediable at first until the centrifuge of some major conflict, uprising or revolution really brings their contradiction forward and separates them not only by words, but also actions, deeds, alliances, etc?

OWS marks one of these moments of initial divergence, imo. It was an interesting barometer of the popular sympathy for a radical approach to politics, but it also revealed many weaknesses and deficiencies in the Left, and your attitude towards these is what defines which camp you're on today.

For example, you can bury your head in the sand and continue to romanticize its leaderless, horizontalist, "spontaneous" character, or you can be a realist and acknowledge that OWS revealed the necessity of organization, of structure, of cohesion and of leadership, and how, without these, the Left is completely impotent.

It also revealed that Leftist ideas are popular, but leftists aren't. Unless you've spent 2011 isolated in left-wing student echo chambers, you know that the attitude of the general population that surrounded OWS was something in the lines of:

I agree with their message, but their methods are silly and their behavior is kind of embarrassing

and trust me, this is not because your average Occupier was too "radical" for them. It's because they want these Leftist ideas to be normie-friendly, to be reflected upon and voiced by people who seem serious and dedicated enough to earn their trust, and to have a clear agenda based on them, instead of being presented by people like Ketchup with no clear sense of objective or purpose. And the usual undergrad blather about raising awareness and shifting paradigms won't serve as proper substitutes.

Basically, people are ready to let go of the political language they're accostumed to, and to demand things outside the system of electoral politics and liberal democracy, but they are not ready to let their notions of political capital and credibility go, and they're right in doing so, because a mere half decade after OWS, a number of middle-class students who took part of it are probably starting to learn how to laugh at their own radical past and to sneer at those who still seem serious about its ideals.

So we've learned that we can't think of protest without thinking of organization, we can't organize without sharing common concerns, we can't articulate these concerns without also having demands, we can't figure out these demands without proper theory and we can't do any of that without considering the human material. The undergrad, pink-haired, vegetarian, feminist, Russell Brand-y, "Being a Socialist" constituency can no longer be our semi-official representatives. We need regular, serious people to fill the ranks of Socialism and we need the proper ethic and conduct to make them at least interested in learning some basic theoretical principles.

Michael Jenkins
Michael Jenkins

Your sentiment reminds me of an article I read about the rigidly disciplined and unified nationwide network of local churches and community groups that was responsible for the success of the civil rights movement under MLK, contrasting it against the formless and easily diluted mob that was the Occupy movement. The following article isn't the one I'm thinking of, but it's sort of the same gist:
wagingnonviolence.org/feature/how-to-learn-nonviolent-resistance-as-king-did/

Eli Long
Eli Long

In the very inception of the Left we had systems like this:

The dictatorship of the Committee of Public Safety was thus no mere tyranny of a handful of men clinging to power and In possession of all the means of coercion, no mere police system in a beleaguered fortress. It rested on closely knit and highly disciplined cells and nuclei in every town and village, from the central artery of Paris to the smallest hamlet in the mountains, composed of men only waiting with enthusiastic eagerness for a sign, no more to express their spontaneous urge for freedom, but their Revolutionary exaltation through obedient and fervent execution of orders from the centre, the seat of the enlightened and infallible few.

And, obviously, the International also worked like that.

Owen Turner
Owen Turner

The last big protest movement was 50 years ago. You can talk about the labor movement, but schools don't. A disturbing portion of people think Labor day is a military holiday. They might have heard of the "Haymarket Riot" in the context of anarchists and socialists killing police, but nobody's ever heard of Ludlow or Blair Mountain. Americans don't understand the scale of organization during the labor movement, nor the scale and violence of its opposition.

Jayden Gomez
Jayden Gomez

I went to a few camps, mainly Zuccotti Park, Seattle, Portland, and Tacoma. NYC was by far the most organized and had frequent events. There were marches and speeches every single day. There were college professors, students, environmentalists…

However, I get the impression that every other city was like Seattle/Portland: mostly homeless people and 'anarchists' operating in their own cliques who were hostile to outsiders. I tried striking up conversations with several people and no one seemed to have any coherent argument. Many people were the type to say if you're not spending every waking moment at the camp and committing 100% then you didn't belong.

The media latched on to this because it was very easy - within 5 minutes at any camp you were engulfed in foul smells, trash, and schizophrenics. Not everyone is able to quit their job, school and every responsibility to camp in the cold and rain.

Isaac Stewart
Isaac Stewart

Kek, nowhere in that article did they present evidence of George soros or his orgs bring involved with occupy
They just said he donates to "activist" (pro Democrat) groups and then went on about how he loves euro "socialism" (socdem)
They just said he hates America and didn't make an attempt to explain how the walstreet insider loves the people wanting to imprison walstreet insiders

Hunter Reyes
Hunter Reyes

The last big protest movement was 50 years ago.

This is also true of most of the developed world, it's not an american particularity by any means.

The same goes for not knowing their own socialist history. Sorry to interrupt your self-loathing, but despite stereotypes about this being chiefly an american trait, historical ignorance is a rule everywhere, particularly when it comes to parts of our history that the powers that be wouldn't like you to know about. And it is way, way more disheartening to see french people displaying ignorance about the Jacobins or germans displaying ignorance about Marx than it is to see americans not knowing much about the Wobblies or Debs.

Angel Hall
Angel Hall

No platform for liberals
That's all

Logan Parker
Logan Parker

I can't understand how idpol destroys organizations

You're cool.

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