What''s the difference between Marxism and Marxist-Leninism?

What''s the difference between Marxism and Marxist-Leninism?

One is only by Marx, the other is Marx+Lenin

The latter has nothing to do with communism

Marxism refers to a broad range of traditions originating from Marx's analyses of capitalism and planned transition from capitalism into communism. It's not really a standalone ideology: it really only exists as a distinct entity when compared to related political traditions (specifically non-Marxist socialism, anarchism, etc).

Marxism-Leninism has meant different things at different times. The term was originally proposed by Stalin to describe the ideology for the CPSU, primarily based on his own interpretation of Marx along with Lenin's contributions (largely in regards to the realization of the transitional socialist state, though even then it wasn't a 1:1 interpretation). After Stalin, it continued to be essentially "Soviet party line," but what that meant from an actual ideological perspective varied through the decades. Nowadays, with the fall of the Soviet Union and any sort of ideological centralization if might have imposed, the term doesn't really mean anything specific besides following a vague and anachronistic Soviet tradition.

Marxism is named after the fist great theoretician of scientific socialism. It has been studied and developed throughout the ages by such revolutionary figures as Karl Kautsky, George Plekhanov, Rosa Luxemburg, Vladimir Lenin, Leon Trotsky, James Cannon, and many other brilliant and dedicated minds. Marxism-Leninism is the name Stalinism calls itself; it's a false bureaucratic caricature of both Marxism and Leninism. The crimes of Stalinism against the Soviet working class and the revolutionary workers movement are many and serious.

Marxism = philosophical framework of analysis for (mainly) socioeconomics. May also refer to the Marxist communist tradition.

Marxism-Leninism = 'socialism' according to Stalin, coined by him and named after Marx and Lenin. Synonymous with Stalinism, but hardcore Soviet apologists and nostalgists will tell you that these are bourgeois lies and that ML is a science.

But somehow, you just can't be bothered to name them. Such is the case with tankies.

Marxism is a theoretical framework for analyzing society and the capitalist economy based on the economic and political theories of Karl Marx.
Marxism-Leninism isn't Marxist and barely qualifies as Leninist.

Stalin organized the mass murder of thousands Communist Party members who had helped organize the October revolution and built the workers republic. To add insult to injury, before execution several victims were framed up for treason and forced to admit to false conspiracies against the soviet government. Popular opposition to the muh privileged bureaucracy and its totalitarian government were also violently suppressed.

Historically, Stalinism was the outcome of the temporary defeat of the international revolution, leading to the isolation of the worlds first lasting workers state under conditions of imperialist encirclement and economic backwardness. Politically, the Stalinist program of Socialism in one Country was an impossible utopia that led to betrayal after betrayal against the international working class. Intellectually, Stalin was a plagiarist and a liar.

A tankie wouldn't be admonishing the crimes of Stalin, you moron.

Unintentional typo ^^

Marxism was an academic ideology in 19th Century Europe which was basically only known by Marx, Engels, and a few of their followers. The thought of these early academics and intellectuals was completely insignificant to world affairs. Socialism only existed in their minds at at most their was a two month riot in Paris called "commune" that was quickly suppressed.

Marxism-Leninism is a serious ideology with worldwide consequences which was the first ideology responsible for actually taking state power and doing all that entails (like persecuting foreign agents, fighting wars with an organized military, etc). The implementation of Marxism-Leninism emanating from Moscow made Marxism into a serious worldwide phenomena and it drastically increasing the awareness of Marxism. The Chinese, who knew nothing of Marx and Engels and their ideas well they were alive, became aware of Marx through Marxism-Leninism.

'M-L' is a serious and desperate attempt by stalinists for credibility. Perhaps even trying to avoid the obvious criticism of worshipping Stalin that they deservedly receive, by not openly calling themselves stalinists.

Modern 'Marxist leninists' may adhere to the ideal of communism for the future, but they generally see Stalin as anything but a crippling mistake to achieving that. 'MLs' in the soviet era were bureaucratic parasites who maintained their benefits over the average worker by making sure socialism or worker control was never anything but lip service.

Your "perfect version of socialism" exists only in your utopian idealistic mind, much like Marx and Engels who never saw any kind of socialism come into practice or have to deal with the dirty work of actually running a state. Because all you can ever do in reality is run a state in one country, there can be no anarchism or a global revolution as anarchist, trotskyists, and other idealistic reality detached utopian pretenders contend.

That would be proudhon famrade.

Look at all these assumptions that have nothing to do with what I said.

You said "'M-L' is a serious and desperate attempt by stalinists for credibility." Marxism-Leninism doesn't need to attempt to gain credibility it is the only ideology with any credibility. Before Marxism-Leninism, Marxism was restricted to a few academics and intellectuals disconnected from world affairs. Its ideologies that have achieved nothing outside of some thinker's heads that desperately need credibility.

Why do Stalinists almost always subtly deride the work of Marx and Engels?

So this is probably a stupid question but if Marxist-Leninism has fuck all to do with Lenin what do people who think Lenin had some pretty good ideas call themselves?

Then why not be content to call it 'stalinism'? If it's actions that count, and not labels, then calling it stalinism should be OK. Make stalinism the credible ideology. Calling it 'Marxism Leninism' was a calculated decision by Stalin to continue the legacy of Marx and Lenin in the minds of people worldwide.

Lenin was a Marxist
But being a Leninist is not the same as being a Marxist-Leninist.
ML is another word for Stalinism - Stalin called his ideology ML to get legitimacy in the eyes of those who considered Lenin to be a hero.

Communists, or leninists. Or anything else… But you can never be sure of what people think until you talk to them on their views, since the labels on the left are so warped, with multiple ideologies claiming similar names, as well as the labels having been dragged through the mud both intentionally and unintentionally.

You are ought to mummify leaders on ML, otherwise capitalists win

Such wasn't the opinion of Lenin.

Damn, what an utopian anarchist, this Lenin!

Marxism-Leninism is overtly militant and considers the State to be indispensible, whereas under Marxism the State forces people to "wake up" and consider the potential benefit of pure voluntary egalitarianism.

Labels and words absolutely do not matter - only actions do. In this day and age conflicts are largely fought through espionage, sabotage, deception, and information warfare and other underhanded ways rather then directly. So calling someone a "Marxist" means nothing, even before the revolution the Bolshevik party was infiltrated. Stalin almost got stuck in Siberia for the rest of his life because of the infiltrator Roman Malinovsky who claimed to be a Bolshevik so he was on the lookout for agents. So yes, the labels don't matter, it doesn't matter rather you say Stalinism or Marxism-Leninism that is just a matter of words.

Regardless of his opinion there was no world revolution. Lenin was shot by Fanny Kaplan and didn't live that long so he didn't get to see what actually happened. He died and Stalin did not. Stalin needed to salvage the Soviet state in the absence of a world revolution where the Soviet Union was surrounded by hostile countries.

Sounds like a bit of a problem, when you call yourself "Marxists-Leninist".

Yet. And partly thanks to… Stalin.

It was more important to salvage the Bolshevik party and, even more, the Third International, precisely in order to pursue the world revolution.
Instead, Stalin salvaged the Soviet state indeed… at the expense of the International, of the party and of their principles, and thus at the expense of the possibility for a world revolution and of the proletarian character of the Soviet state itself.

Not necessarily, both Marx and Lenin had their thinking evolve over time.

Bullshit. Stalin wasn't even in charge of the country by the time that the world revolution had essentially failed. It failed well Lenin was alive. This is more of a blame everything on Stalin line of thinking.

There was going to be no world revolution. Its not as if great man Trotsky sat in the Kremlin somehow the world revolution would go off and the whole world would turn communist.

Marxism is academic ideology with plenty of nice make-believe stuff.
Leninism and Stalinism is what it looks like if you actually use it as a plan in real life.

I'm sure you could actually explain the academic principles of Marx, too.

I agree with you partially here, since the world revolution had essentially stalled quite early, but the control of world revolution in the rest of the 20th century was definitely in the hands of the bureaucracy in the USSR.