How much worse would the games industry be if Demon's Souls had never been made?

I haven't played Dark Souls 3 yet, but I find it weird that people stopped talking about it after 2 weeks. Was it unremarkable, forgettable or what?

If DeS combat is anything like DaS, you're so very wrong. Combat is the best part of the series.

Also games with specific set of mechanics and stamina management are called soulslikes, not just "difficult" games.

It still is. The series that are known for constantly getting increasingly casual that are still doing that despite whatever influence the Souls series may have had.

There have always been exceptions to that rule as well, all that's happened now is that any game which happens to be difficult gets compared to Souls games. All that proves is that the Souls series has become the new Halo in terms of constantly being quoted for influences and innovations it didn't do.

I know you want to be a contrarian, but come on.

How is Boletaria or the Valley of Defilment a fucking corridor? They're pretty vast and open.

This much is true, but then again, you can just cheese your way through Dark Souls with a mule or co-op. You also have to go out of your way to dupe those items. Who's really to blame if you decide to cheat and make the game that less challenging?

It was okay. Not as good as the rest, save for Dark Souls 2. I did enjoy some of the areas and bosses, but it's pretty unremarkable all things considered.

Combat is really simple and generic, it's literally a faster third person King's Field with dodging.

So what you are saying is that King's Field is the dark souls of first person RPG's.

You didn't play King's Field then.
There is nothing to talk about with you at this point.

It feel like expansion pack to Dark Souls 1 in both story and gameplay.
As a stand alone it's worse, but as an expansion it really complements the original, expanding and improving on its mechanics.

Not liking a game and thinking its shit is different from everyone else liking it and devs catering to the majority. Whether or not you like Zelda games doesn't change that they inspired every RPG made after it.

You mean invasions? You need to reverse hollowing for that. You will only get invaded if you want it.
Also it's not that innovative. Soma games have been allowing other players to join your game as the enemy.

Boss and enemy designs in DeS are pretty good, the soundtrack is not something I particularly liked. It fit the theme and didn't distract much, but I didn't download it to listen on a regular basis like I did with some others. It was just okay.

Farming grass is not a cheat, it is a legitimate way to beat the game. The same way as Taurus Demon falling down from the arena to his death is a legitimate way to beat him. It might be easy, but it's there.

Combat is simple and often unreliable and unresponsive. Slow, uninterruptable animations that are being done no matter what. It is entirely possible to press the dodge button, get hit twice in the face and THEN your character will dodge. Kick is unreliable as you can accidentally do a light attack instead. Parry is useless on most later enemies, block is not viable unless you dump every point in endurance since most later enemies do multiple hits or knock all your stamina down. Rolling is the only option that works every time, but certain hitboxes are so bullshit it becomes funny.
The series shines when fighting human enemies roughly your size, but when big fuckers an animals come in it's all out the window.

Zelda games, yes.
Souls games, no.
Name me some mainstream games that you believe were inspired by it, because I'm not seein it. Lords of the Fallen and Nioh I see, but one is a copycat and the other might very well turn out to be one.

I'm talking about Demon's Souls here. Yes, you have to be human, but there are detriments to staying in both forms. As a human, you can summon for help and have larger health, but you're susceptible to both invasions and making the game harder for yourself every time you die. In ethereal form or whatever it was called, you have less health, but can't interact with other players outside helping with co-op. You're also forgetting the Old Monk fight that incorporates the multiplayer with the base game. Though you can fight him without being online, it just isn't the same. Either way, that was pretty innovative and definitely memorable for those who got to experience it. Granted the online wasn't flawless, but there were some great things about it.

I was talking about duping. I found it unnecessary to actually farm for anything. I would visit an area to stock up on some types of items to deal with poison and such, but that was about it. You'd also have to put some serious time into farming for full moon or dark moon grass. I can't imagine anything more tedious than that. Pure Bladestone.

So much better.

So exactly the same.

It's a shit series pretending to be hardcore tbh. Some of the worst dungeon crawler games I've ever played. As for the combat, it's nothing more than an improved, less kids friendly version of Ocarina of Time combat. Jedi Outcast, Severance, and Chivalry did it better.

it would have been better by a lot
like
holy fuck the autism about "hard" games would go down and we would have more actually difficult games.

About 4 games worse.

The ps4 would have failed.
So, good news all around.

Nigga you're hilarious

Showed him.

As a dude who played through one of the games, and the one considered the best in the series, Dark Souls, it's not a fun game, nor is it entertaining in any other way.

I played King's Field nigger, probably before you were born.

Reminds me that I bought DeS last month. Killed the Tower Knight on the first try but I can't get past the second room in the mine, and I don't think it's the good zone to go. I think I'll give it another try tonight.

Dark Souls is the kind of series that is lucky for being released in its time, so it could be considered to be revolutionary since other games are being catered to casuals.

It's a game that looks innovative depending on how less about video game history you know, taking credit for something it didn't do.

All it did is reminding people that video games can be hard, but it doesn't mean it invented it.

Not saying it's bad, just hate it when people mention the game like they never even played it or maybe they did it but not other games, like how TLOU is called the "citizen kane" of its medium despite having a lot of elements from other types of games.

What is a better game than Demon's Souls that was released around the same time as it?

Monster hunter tri

You didn't play King's Field, then.

No, it isn't.

Most people complain the shields are overpowered, I don't know how you could argue low-requirement shields with 100% physical damage reduction are not viable.

ha no

Less Souls games could potentially mean more Metal Wolf Chaos. That'd be way better.

If it was 3u, I'd say yes but it's tri.

It would be = but >
:^))))

Fucking this.

Let's see. I'm doing my best not to just go "get gud" at you here.

So need to make decisions and getting punished for making them is bad now? Also "slow" is not the word you can use for daggers or rapiers. Still you can't spam shit and not get punished, how is this bad?

Do you know what input buffering means? You can't spam attacks and then tap dodge button in panic because you didn't watch your opponent and planned ahead.
On the other hand input buffering if used correctly allows to be ahead of the enemy, predict his movements and punish him while having enough time to prepare the next move.

Literally what? You can't press forward+attack simultaneously? Do you have some coordination problems?

There are plenty video on jewtube with players parrying last boss to death.
Or what do you expect to be able to parry 30 meters monstrosity? The sole fact that you can even block those things is too casual for me here.

Whoa what? You can block niggers ten times your height and you complain? Did you ever use tower shields? You can block artorias for minutes with his own shield as long as your min reqs for it are there.
Blocking is the easiest and the most casual tactic there is.
Maxing stamina is a must yeah, but that's "RPG elements" for you. It's not like you can raise it infinitely anyway.

It really isn't as you can block or outrun basically anything.

It's true that the bigger the boss, the easier it is.
Game sure could use more big knight kind of bosses.
Oh wait.

somebody would've made a different demon souls once some publishers overhear some fedoras compaining about games being casuall kidshit, another 'hardcore' (via perceived difficulty being increased) game like demon souls to come out)

and fromsoft would still be shitting out armoured core spinoffs

what are you even saying with this convoluted bullshit

Soulsfags are always good for an amusing spergout when the honor of the games are impugned.

Does anyone even unironically think the games are any good?

Fucking hipsters.

Never said they were bad games, only that soulsfags sperg out amusingly when someone says they aren't. Just like you. Dance for me monkey, dance.

I don't think the Souls games have really influenced the industry very much. They are decent games, but not exactly something that the industry is drawing inspiration from.

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what else is new

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The word mediocre is worthless in an industry without standards.

You mean better, right?
The amount of turboautists and journos trying to establish Souls-games as a new gerne isn't worth the little excitment you can get out of playing it.

DeS was great in 2009, but it got obsoleted by (almost) every Souls from then.

And before people start saying shit, Bloodborne is my favorite Souls game.

Demon's Souls kept me in the game industry. I was about to give up. All the games at that time were dogshit. Everything was getting consolized. There was no hope in sight. Difficulty was a taboo subject.

DeS legitimately halted my suicide.

tbh by the looks of it all it did was make more indie developers get "inspired" to sort of mimic its style of gameplay/difficulty.

If we're talking about innovation in the more mainstrem, then I can hardly see it in todays market. It seems the only AAA developer actually making a game like demons souls is fromsoft themselves as i'm pretty sure all other companies are too scared to try something new. Which is a shame, because a game as unique as Demons souls when compared to the rest of the modern AAA gaming market, sold so well, might've have had developers thinking about possibly broadening their horizons and experimenting to see what would sell well, and would stop rehashing the same old shit over and over again.

Personally, I enjoyed Demons Souls, as well as the rest of the souls series, except DS2. Not too easy to the point where I was falling asleep at every encounter, nor too hard to where I wanted to break my controller.

If by the need to make decisions you mean that you can't roll away from attacks instead of attacking, yes. If you pressed an attack button it's over, your character stands there for two seconds raisign a normal fuckign sword while Ornstein's spear suddenly stabs me right through Smaugh's huge gut. I could see it in the moment it came out of the gut, but I couldn't do shit about it since I was locked in an animation.

Are you saying that delayed commands are a good thing, because this shit pisses me off to no end. I try to attack a nigga, get rightfully hit in the face, my character gets up and then starts doing an attack I tried to do before being hit in the face. I don't need that attack, the situation has changed and the nigga will probably kill me because of it.
It also doesn't happen every time, but it happened at least five times to me during my first playthrough and each time I got fucked because of it.

Kick is unreliable because in certain cases you need to do it multiple times, and getting it three times in a row is pure luck. It could be done with use of other buttons.

Yeah, the boss every fuckign darksoulsfag keeps callign "too easy" because he can be parried. He's one of a kind.
And if you are putting parry in your game as one of core game mechanics, you should design your enemies accordingly. If a mechanic doesn't work against half of the enemies, but works on the other half and the only way to know is to try shit's just unreliable. I was surprised to learn you coul parry Ornstein since by that point you couldn't do shit to most bosses.

I was raising stamina with vitality and other stats, but not minmaxing. By the time I got to Artorias his three attacks in a row would knock down all my stamina and probably land a hit on me. Lesser Capra Demons and Taurus demons would just kick all my stamina down with one hit, leaving me completely open.

Running is also a fucking problem in the first games. If you run, you can't roll, you just do a fuckig jump no matter what and get fucked in the ass for it.

The series is also inconsistent with its surroundings with intent of fucking over the player.
There is no reason for the stone in Sen's Fortress to be changing directions after I killed everyone who did it and even the giant who threw the stones. It's just there to inconvenience me.
There is no reason why the chairs in Duke's archives can't be broken with a roll like all other furniture in the game. For some reason it needs an attack. There is no way to know that you will be staying in one place if you roll, and there are archers shooting at you.

Probably the worst segment of the game is the Anor Londo archers, since you either roll on instinct or die. You can't see both archers at once, so guessign when the arrow hits you is what you need to do. If one arrow hits you it's certain death from falling. If you block you are just knocked down to your death.

The games are filled with shit that serves no purpose but to unfairly fuck over the player, and it pisses me off.

From left to right the games in that image are Dark Souls, Demon's Souls, DaS 3, DaS 2, BloodBorne right? If that's true the person who made that is a complete retard. The only logical position is BloodBorne.

I don't know, maybe an actual King's Field sequel instead?

We just had a thread making fun of shit like this.
There's no way you're actually serious. You're here for attention. Fuck off.

You're a fucking casual.

Dark Souls however is still bad.

Dark Souls is a bad game because:

The hitboxes are shit and unintuitive. Tying into this, there is no consistency in clipping. Enemies merrily clip their attacks through each other and random environmental objects. Only some objects though, for some reason.

The combat design is painfully shallow. Every weapon group has basically the same two attacks, and there is pretty much no strategy to it besides using fast strikes vs humanoids and strong strikes vs anything big.

Attacks track the target, both yours and enemies', meaning you don't have to aim, which is casual as shit.

Since you don't actually have to aim, you can't dodge shit, since the attacks track. So you have this shit rolling system which makes you invulnerable. A Shit system implemented because tactical movement is impossible on consoles.

Or you just use the inbuilt ez mode, just shielding every attack. Games can be played through at SL 15 this way, fucking ridiculous.

The physics are a joke. You get dealt damage if a hollow slides down a chest high wall next to you, pushing you back mere centimeters. This is not acceptable.

Enemy AI is a joke. They all just rush at you, no group tactics used, no smart ambushes laid, nothing.

The soundtrack is forgettable.

Multiplayer lag is enormous.

Later levels are linear.

All big bosses behave the same. Run out of the AoE, stab his ankle, bait a melee attack, stab his ankle again, repeat.

I wasn't saying that as a good thing, just pointing out the fact that it is indeed a thing that happens.

The worst mainstream publishers/devs are always sheep who will mimic what they perceive will sell until it's no longer special, like CoD. I felt like the major pubs/devs were avoiding DeS so I'm happy it avoided that fate, but . And perhaps I'm just being optimistic here, but it felt like 'difficult' and 'inaccessible' no longer felt like slurs industrially since Demon's Souls, a game that should never have succeeded by that logic, got a heapton of success with minimal investment.

I suppose we could then look at the push to get Dark Souls to PC and its success there, which may have inspired the Japanese scene to dip their toes into Steam; I didn't exactly notice the likes of Valkyria Chronicles on there before.

Why would anyone even play console trash?

Oh my fucking god, git gud you pathetic worm, or quit games entirely.
Souls games combat is flawed, but it's the opposite of "unresponsive" or "unreliable".
They literally copypasted it from monhun and removed crazy and in-depth shit.
Every fucking competent action game has input buffering since PS2, slow-paced or not.
Reading your shit physically hurts me.

In all games except DS2 hitboxes are pretty accurate to models.
Somebody post webm with arrow flying between player's legs in DS3.

No? Enemies will clip through EVERYTHING. It's unfair, but at least is consistent :^)

Every weapon has at least 8 attacks not counting kicking and critical attacks. Thrusting weps have hide-and-poke 9th attack. In DS3 there are also special attacks and dool wheeldung stances.
DS2 had even more variety to movesets, but who cares, that game was piece of shit.

No they don't. Even if you lock on. Except again DS2 where enemies track you like no tomorrow.
Only fireballs and shit like that homes onto you.

Yeah shields are fucking casual. Kudos to BB for removing them altogether.

What? It is a video game. If you want realism why aren't you complain that you can even damage huge ass monsters made of stone and eldritch flames? Seriously, what the fuck?

That's true. Only threatening enemies are other players and some broken bullshit like four kings or fucking bed of chaos, if you even call that enemy.

DAAAM DAM DAM DAAAAM!
No fuck you, ost in DeS and DaS1 is fantastic.

All of them are. Only a couple of first areas in DaS1 give you an illusion of nonlinearity. But they all are corridors with loops into each other.

Nigger that's like 90% of all bosses in most 3D action games. What did you expect? Shadow of the Colossus?

To summarize I have a strong feeling that you only extensively played DS2, because most of your shit is true to that game. In that case I feel sorry for you and recommend to play any other game from the franchise.

Fuck king's field. Souls was the right direction from there.

ebin, thanks for the bumpo

Bullshit. I was playing Dark Souls 1 a week ago again and I never realized how hard the black knights could track you and how they manage to instantly do 180s without any effort.

What? You can lock-n-walk into backstab them like kittens.
It's in DS3 they got their fucking shield bashes and instant 180 overhead slashes. And even then you can walk in backstabs.

We might have gotten a new Armored Core game so better.

The world would lose one 10/10 waifu

I think it would have been better if the series stopped at Demon Souls or even Dark Souls without getting too popular like it is now. The games themselves weren't hard at all and that shouldn't have been the selling point. The games were fair with how it dealt with punishing the player for doing stupid shit or not being aware of their surroundings which is what drew me in. We could also get another Armored Core game or King's Field game if the souls games weren't made.

There was Lords of the Fallen which I remember being absolute shit.

When there's a negative souls thread the faggots come out of the woodwork. It astounds me how perpetually ass blasted some people are about git gud.

I didn't phrase it quite well in my first post

I don't want more souls games, but rather developers seeing a game like demons souls, which was so obscure and deviated drastically from the AAA norm at the time, and realizing that there could be potential, as well as profit, in investing in new IP's, and attempting to introduce something fresh, something new that's never been seen before to the current AAA market and could actually provide a real challenge along with fun and interesting gameplay, increasing the standards of games everywhere, rather than them just rehashing the same old game every year.

Although the probability of my dream coming true is pretty fucking low, considering how expensive it is to create a AAA game these days, and how hard it would be to get people to even buy the game due to the casualisation of mainstream videogame players.

Although the reason as to why the souls series sold so well isn't because of it's gameplay, but how everyone treated it as one the hardest games ever created. So because of that everyone wanted to "git gud" and other shit memer like that that caused it to skyrocket in sales.

Sure OP let's forget how goddamned cancerous the Dark Souls community is.

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I wouldn't have had 4 fun games. So it would've been worse. Also Ni-Oh probably wouldn't be made and that's looking better than any Souls game.

Yep Dark Souls became another normalfag hyped meme game.

Just wow…

FUCK YOU FAGGOTS, STAY THE FUCK OUT OF BOARD GAMES. BAD ENOUGH WE HAVE FUCKING RETARDS WHO SHIT ALL OVER ROLEPLAYING NOW WE'LL HAVE IDIOTS COMING TO BOARD GAMES EXPECTING MEMESOULS, TWATS IN A BLENDER AND TRIGGERS AGAINST HUMANITY.

JUST FUCK OFF SO I DON'T WASTE TIME EXPLAINING GOOD GAMES LIKE TERRA MYSTICA, AGRICOLA AND T'ZOLKIN ONLY TO BE MET WITH DROOLING STARES AND FUNNY IMAGES FOUND ON REDDIT.

JUST FUCK OFF AND NEVER PLAY HOUSE ON A HILL WHILE GIGGLING AT YOUR PHONE AGAIN

FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER! FUCK OFF DARKSOUL CANCER!

Game's alright but not without its problems. Poise does absolutely nothing, regardless of what people tell you. There are theories here and there; one theory states that poise allows you to roll out of attacks that would normally stunlock you, and another says that poise allows you to acquire more hyper armor frames (hyper armor is a shitty term used to describe the stun immunity that your character acquires when swinging certain weapons and using certain abilities). Bamco says that poise is working as intended, but that doesn't explain shit.

Why is poise such a huge issue? Well, it fundamentally changes how you play the game. In DaS1, poise allowed greatsword, greatclub, and other large weapon wielders to tank through a certain amount of attacks before they staggered, which basically allowed them to play against fast and light foes. Ever try to use a greatsword without any poise? It's not fun; shotelfags, rapierfags, the balder side sword, and pretty much anything with short and fast attacks will fuck your day up. You need poise just to successfully swing the fucking thing.

DaSIII changes this so that players can only acquire stun immunity when they're attacking. Shields generally have low stability, even when upgraded, and since poise does fuck all, everyone is a paper tiger. Nearly every singular attack will stagger you, so the game becomes more about managing your space and movement, and avoiding attacks all together while looking for openings so that you can initiate an attack that will allow you hyper armor so you can punish r1 spam. That's not a bad playstyle, and in fact it's my favorite, but it's now the only playstyle.

Aside from mechanical issues, the game feels like a retread of all the other games. It's like this game has no identity of its own. Everything is a reference to the previous games and it comes across as a nostalgia cash grab. Enemies and bosses are still fun to fight, though, so I personally enjoyed it. If you're looking to buy, wait for the GOTY edition. DLC hasn't even dropped yet, and my guess it won't until sometime in late 2016 so they can desperately try and prolong this game's lifespan.

If all it takes is a couple faggy youtubers making videos on a game to ruin it for you, you're fucked. Stop being vidya hipsters. Sometimes good things do get popular.

Kek I'm referring to board games you mongoloid.

A completely different world where jewish designers make kick starters for horrible games and everyone involved getting burned or ripped off.

Cats with lasers, Mistfall and now Dark souls will for no reason as the could easily afford to release this game with a trusted publisher are sucking more money from projects that deserve it.

Things that seem good get popular, before you realise it's shit sandwich up close.

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I got the same vibe from it, I'm glad this'll be the last mainline dark souls game.

Furthermore, from what I've heard of the PVP, DaS2 has superior pvp even with soul memory fucking up matchups outside the arenas. Bamco/FromSoft really need to get their heads out of their asses and change poise back to what it was, since I hear all it takes is to change a single 0 to a 1 to make poise behave like it used to.

I'll say that with the poise patch the game is pretty good.

Depends, if you play Dark Souls online the game is made or destroyed by the community.

Without the souls series, western journalists and casuals would have to find something else to help them maintain the appearance of actually caring about videogames. They'd probably latch even harder onto zelda or indie sidescrollers or some shit.

The influence on other titles (dark fantasy art style, online features) has been mostly superficial and poorly applied compared to souls, I doubt it's disappearance would have much of an effect on vidya itself.

Oh yeah, and what's more, countless anons and other valuable fags from the rest of the internet would have finally lost faith in the entire medium and renounced it entirely. I know a lot of people with no interest in fantasy RPGs already did from 2008-10 and onwards, but even more would have without dark souls.

I don't know, I have a feeling Demon's Souls inspired Dragon's Dogma or gave it more funding from Capcom.

kys tbh fam smdh

Y S C
O U O
U C C
K K
S

God I hate fucking soulsfags

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And Demon's Souls did fuck all in stopping that. Have you been paying attention at all to recent releases?

About the same, only instead of "soulslike" people would obsess about "Fieldslike" after From makes a new King's Field game instead

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Kill yourself faggot