WAGE SLAVERY THREAD

Actually fight for 15 didn't expect mcds and the other fast food places to do that. Though they really should have.

If you live in the ghetto, there is competition for even McDonalds jobs and with arrests for possession of weed or illegal firearms on your record you can't really work anywhere else. I hear they actually have a waiting list of guys with arrest records who need work so if you misbehave they'll easily replace you

Obviously I was unaware of this at the time

All managers are the 21st century overseers and should be treated the same as when the slaves broke their shackles.

You did the right thing. You took a stand, you showed solidarity. If your coworkers can't connect their being fired with the company being a piece of shit and rather blame it on you, that's pure ideology. They agreed, after all, it's not your fault.

And you are not trash, comr8, you had real guts to do that.

Nice. It's true after all. Ordinary people don't get to work around a business, with someone shepherding them into every role, before ascending to the top. We get compartmentalized, departmentalized, and usually stay where we are, until we're fired.

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I want to kill someone.

The problem with major unions these days are that they don't actually organize workers. They promote walk outs which is basically a death sentence for min. wage workers like us. Fight For Fifteen is a project mostly supported by the SEIU (big major union) to elect Democrats. They've done some good things, but they don't hesitate to throw workers under the bus unless we mattered somehow in the voting process for the Democrats. There was video on it online by Greg Lucero in the Revolutionary Students Union. I wanted to post the link, but the RSU was merged with another Idpol-ridden pseudo-leftist "socialist" group which deleted a bunch of lectures that pertained to more radical topics like fighting fascism.

Options I could think of:
-Get training in weapons being used in the Syrian Civil War, sell everything, go to Rojava to kill terrorists.
-Sell company and become a farmer?
-Become business consultant?
-Sell business and make a movie?
-Pull off the greatest financial feat of all time, defeat the evil corporations, and become a homey co-op?
-Go to school and learn a new major?

I dunno comrade. We can talk if you want to talk though I don't know what to say.

That makes me pretty upset. So then, do you what other leftist organization I can support? I tried the socialist workers party and the American socialist party and they were filled with very old people who insisted on using old and ineffective tactics like handing our newspapers

There's really nothing to sell other than a beat to shit truck and various tools. Considered changing majors, but I don't think that's really feasible. Already have some weapons training as a cletus.

I'd be down with a co-op. It ain't socialism but it's better than what I have now and I'd rather deal with the fags here than managers or classcuck coworkers.

I had to laugh. Sorry comr8.

DON'T LAUGH AT MY SUFFERING REEEEEEEEEE!!!

How bout you join another pool repair company? Or perhaps get a job at the pool company itself as a mechanic/technician/engineer?

AUTONOMOUS WORKER OWNED CO-OPS WHEN

Not soon enough

;_;

I dunno comrade. If you're stationed in Chicago, you can join the IWW. They're not really a union, but they certainly concentrate on the issues of workers than anything else. Their general socialist standing makes it welcome for really all sorts of lefties instead of one's personal special snowflake stuff.

Make it a states' rights issue.

A McDonalds on mainstreet in Jew York has a bigger overhead and can charge more because of it. This also factors into the cost of living for that part of town.

There I could rationalize a 15 dollar an hour wage since the cost of living in that area would match the wage. The same could not be said for some podunk town in Louisiana or Alabama. There one could probably rationalize a wage lower than the Federal minimum if you don't calculate the interest rate.

So much this

Make communist propaganda films comr8

overall I rate it 7/10, still want to seize the school and make a co-op with other teachers tho

I see your post here often user, how old are you?

23

Pretty young for an English teacher. That's cool.
but what's your IQ ;)

also what do you mean by your post? this is the first time I engage in datamining threads here

being an english teacher is easy, as you just need to follow the books and solve students doubts, my boss prefers to save some shekels and just force us to make plannings instead of using them tho, want to learn french and hopefully start an institute instead

bout treefiddy

I see your post on here a lot. You're the only one who uses a pirate flag, besides this one agorist who left.

That's neat tho user. Did you study anything besides English in University?

there are three other pirates as far as I know, a brony one, another one from mexico that always post Sub Marcos and another one from straya one of them could be the brony who knows

I didn't study university, I just did an exam with cambridge university and managed to land the job because I had very high english level

Managerial work is still taxing and stressful. Management in socialism will still exist, but will be based on merit.

Hate the system rather than the fact that some people can manage better than others, and are suited for the role.

Really? ;)

probably got luckly idk

I rarely care about adressing my grammar online

Pourquoi?

Sounds cute

Administrative work will thankfully be automated before most labor-intensive positions.

That sound like it might be illegal, m8. You might wanna seek some legal help for compensation.
Or maybe I'm just having too much faith in the US legal system.

That sound like it might be illegal, m8. You might wanna seek some legal help for compensation.
Or maybe I'm just having too much faith in the US legal system.

You should've got decked, Bitch. Don't insult your job provider.

Sabotage the equipment.

This.

Self harm and post it on facebook. They'll be forced to give you a raise.

Why are the petit-bourgeois some of the most insufferable people on the planet?

Well its not a "horror story" like yours. But I got two examples of why I dislike capitalist structuring of the workplace from the time I worked a year after highschool before going to college.

Tosser, dont expect me to work overtime if I specifically said I have to leave at 12.

was this a one-time thing? otherwise I don't see how it would make a difference as you would end up getting the sun-tues of the next week on a paycheck with a wed-fri

Absolute madman.

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sounds like you need to kill your boss OP

the fuck

Classic porky mentality

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Sounds like he benefitted from nepotism

I don't want to sound like I'm gloating or rubbing salt in a wound, but I've worked in the public sector almost exclusively since age 16 and always found the work environment low-key and not necessarily degrading.

That's not a solution in itself, of course.

You might be able to call Burger King Corporate and tell them that you got fired for following the rules. They might shuffle you to another store.

Do unions actually do anything in America anymore?

Sadly it's been 3 years since I've worked there. The good thing is that it helped kickstart my path towards the left.

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Because they have to fight 2 fronts at the same time.

They have to rationalize the boolicking and asskissing of their betters while relentlessly denying their own similarities to their subordinates.It's the middle manager syndrome, it breeds little angry men and women with cardboard exteriors and sickening minds.

At either side of the spectrum you only have to fight empathy in one direction.

not since the 1980's

bump.

That's a plus. Find your boss and shoot him.

Have there been any attempts by workers to form new unions that will do more than collaborate with porky?

Really hate being employed, really hate being a contractor too; neither really has the purported security or freedom, respectively. Might as well be a day trader,drug dealer or hacker, at least you have time to do cool shit.

Or I could go fight in for the YPG in Rojava, get some real combat experience outside the bullshit of the US Army.

Webm related is Thief, one of Michael Mann's greatest movies. I really like these movies, also games like gta 5 and watch dogs; they are like a modern version of Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, illustrating and satirizing the smarmy bullshit the defenders of Capitalism like to put out, from the recuperated corporate feminism to the libertarian entrepreneurial bullshit designed to suck more people into believing in political economy

test

8ch is glitching for me. Anyone else? Trying to post in the election general thread, but have been getting an error message for the past hour or two. The captcha hasn't been working for me in that thread, but it's working here.

Ok, nm. I broke through, finally.

I worked 8 months at a thermoplastic factory making plastic parts, fucking awful job, shit pay, shit working conditions, had to run around like a headless chicken to keep up with the fucking machines. And if you weren't running after the machines the setup men would come up to the machine and accelerate the pace until you did. In 8 months they went thru 15 employees, one new guy on his first day went to the bathroom and never came back. There was even an African immigrant who work there for 2 weeks and quit who came in crying saying "You're fucking crazy people, i don't know how you guys do this". I only bring this up because i was always told immigrants are harder workers and would do any job by my father

I would have fucking killed her if she was in front of me

In 7 years i've done ~15 different jobs, i've seen plenty of shit, i've got a bunch of these stories if you guys wanna hear them, i'd just have to remember them

I have the urge to kill them for you.

share your stories comrade.

Actual unions are basically criminalized.

It's a wageslave thread comrade. Let it all out.

Well how do we fix that problem?

Share, comrade!

Also someone cap these stories, it'll be good ammo against the "hurr you entitled and can't complain cuz you never worked 8 gorillion jobs like me."

communism

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I reckon these aren't as good

Or so i was explained. Either way, work agencies aka "human resource consulting" are cancer

I'm so sorry comrade. I hope your doing better off now at least.

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Jesus fucking Christ, man. You are, like, the poster child for why Capitalism is evil.

I'm so, so sorry, comrade. How do you manage to hold back?

nono

Immigrants are simultaniously people who will work harder than you for less money and also the laziest people who only want benefits

I think I'll start bringing a book

Reading shit like this breaks my heart.

Warehouse autist here again. One of the silly things is that when one shift is about to end and the other is about to start, we are tasked with trying to make everything a clean slate, sort of. That is, throughout work we move stuff around, from pallets/carts/boxes/totes/shelves to pallets/carts/boxes/totes/shelves (not same to same, we aren't that stupid, but almost), and at any given point during a shift a lot of these are half-full. Towards the end of the shift, we are tasked with making things clean and tidy, so that in many areas, the pallets/carts/boxes/totes/shelves stuff has to be either empty or full (or we have to pretend that something is full and put a half-full thing where the full things belong).

Productivity at the end of a shift and beginning of the next shift is very low for that reason. During each shift there are activity chains where one person does something with some stuff, gives that stuff to another person who then does something else with it, and then gives that to another person. Making things "orderly" at the end of the shift means that, near the end of one shift and right after the beginning of the other, for some of these activities in the chain there is an over-supply of stuff (e.g. full carts plus the carts that aren't really full but have to be treated as such), while other roles have nothing to work with.

This could be easily addressed by either having temporary roles for dealing with the change to the next shift (bunch of people being scheduled for this for half an hour) or we could just drop this idea of making things appear orderly to a superficial observer, which creates a lot of chaos, stress for some and idling time for others when the next shift starts. This is obvious to anybody but the managers. I don't think this would be an issue and productivity would go though the roof if managers had to to do one day of regular low-level shit every week. There are a lot of other banal stupid things like that.

Everything you just said is why workers' control is so important. All it takes is one smart dude to notice these things, bring them to others' attention, and argue for things to change. But none of that can happen if you have a petty tyrant in the way.

My life isn't as shit and frustrating as yours but I know exactly where you're coming from.

t. porky

I wish I could sit in my office all day and dab with my friends

>robertehall.com/2014/03/disengagement-economy-robert-hall-huffington-post/
>Thirty-five percent of workers say they would forego a significant pay raise in exchange for having their boss fired

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Where are you from mate?
Your working conditions sound like hell.
and your English seems a bit wobbly,no offence

This thread is depressing as fuck.

This one can't really compare to any your horror stories comrades but anyways

all of this for 15 €

damn son, must have some pretty good unions where you live and shit.

Oh, good

My current job is easier compared to the others and pretty laid back, but I've been feeling below the weather. This thread reminded me that I've been thru worse, it cheers me up.

I'm pretty sure there are people who have it much worse then me, those are the worse examples, however it is fun to see i'm not the only one that thinks it's bullshit, I like to tell these stories to other people, the best i can manage to get is a shrug and "oh well that sucked". The plastic factory job in particular was a pretty hellish time during my life for many reasons.

Most people don't put up with that bullshit, they just leave, especially younger people. Then they get told they're entitled. At the time, I just though it was normal and i wasn't fit to work. It was depressing.

Just to clarify, they only own you at places you worked for them at. Those cunts have pretty shady business practices, I don't know how they are allowed to stay in business.

Canada, I'm wobbly in both languages tbh, I'm borderline illiterate in French

Sorry but do you ACTUALLY believe that this would be better under socialism/communism?

Yes

Sorry, I was just making a joke about the user saying the job would not be pSychically hard. I knew the user meant pHysically, though.

Oops, just meant for

No user. This is nothing to do with "the old days". This is because:

You should only strike if you KNOW, or have a high degree of certainty, that your employer will not be able to replace his entire workforce. The skill of your job, the number of you striking, and the number of people looking for jobs, are all functions in that equation.

When factories used to go on strike, it would be hundreds of them. And they were all SKILLED WORKERS - things like steelworking were lifelong trades, they took a lot of skill, and companies couldn't afford to just invest in training new steelworkers.

All you do is flip burgers. Sorry.

Also, did the boss know that you were the one who encouraged the others to strike? If so, that's a dumb move. Even in the factory scenario, if some guy was known to organise the strike, he probably would've got the sack.

I just watched that and it sounded like drivel

He's right that technology can create classes, and it will probably define the classes of the future, and that controlling AI will be a challenge (although he didn't seem to identify one of the biggest questions facing humans v. tech - the replacement of the proletariat by machines, which will probably cause violence and upheaval within our lifetimes)

But I don't see why he thinks corporations are going to fail to exist. Are there any signs of that? No. I really don't think market economies are going to disappear whatsoever. Look at China, they're living proof that even in a communist state, you need a market economy with private business ownership. That necessarily creates inequality of capital.

So yeah, this guy is a moron. Every time I hear him speak he sounds clever and I want to like him, but then I realise what he's saying is just fucking meaningless drivel.

...

Regardless whether or not he's only flipping burgers, it doesn't excuse the shit that those workers take. Manual laborers don't really do anything but dig/carry heavy stuff etc, but it doesn't mean that they shouldn't advocate for their rights when they are treated like shit. I blame the union in this case.

This will never stop, will it.

full retard

Sure because it's not like its ruled by the "Communist Party of China" is it? Oh wait…

Wew… wew fucking lad
Here's a man who's clearly never done a hard day's work in his life.

If you're whining and somebody else is willing to do your job without whining then you shouldn't have striked. Simple as that. Market forces nigguh

You notice the "et cetera" man? I am broadly generalizing here.

I guess Communism btfo then. We should all stop fighting by your shitty standards.

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Yes. The country is capitalist…this somehow makes it communist because?

You know we're arguing their methods and outcomes, and not their party name, right?

So north korea is also a democratic peoples republic according to you?

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See pic related

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Goddammit
Meant for

You realize that a lot of the communist parties of the Eastern Bloc just changed their names and kept operating when the SU fell, right? Their politics has nothing to do with socialism, but they keep the name and the imagery to save face.

but then I remembered it's because I'm just lazy and if I work hard enough one day I won't have to be this miserable :)
can anyone relate?

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I wanted to fucking deck him and then explain the alienation of the proletariat from his work but if I don't keep this job I'll be homeless due to an unfortunate injury that has left me nearly broke.

Stop posting you underage..

Yes you should, although that wasn't my point

My point was that you should only strike if you have a high degree of certainty that your employer won't fire you / that it would be too inconvenient for him to find a replacement

China was full up communist with communes and everything until they realised that doesn't fucking work so they gradually turned their country into a single-party socialist state with private enterprise, private ownership of land, etc.

So as I said: proof that communism is bullshit.

But if you can give me good reasons why it's not then go ahead, I'll listen.

When the situation is as bad as it is, you cannot rely on the passage of time to somehow alleviate the shit conditions that you are in. Workers in Victorian Britain are expendable as hell, but do you think anything would've changed if they didn't do anything? The problem here wasn't striking, the problem here was the union which advocated for a walk-out instead of actually organizing workers as permissible by the law to advocate for their rights. There is no legal protection in a walk-out though which the SEIU refuses to acknowledge because they are just pawns of the Democrats.

Furthermore, Communism is a stateless, moneyless, classless society.

China was none of those things. Mao also decided to have a 5 year plan similar to the Soviet model to make shitty steel in the backyard of peasants and catch up with the U.S. He also at one point wrecked the ecosystem by ordering the killing all the finches. Until finally Deng Xiaoping decided to go full state capitalism and here we are. Keep in mind that China is only one example of the myriad of ideologies that the left has, in this case I believe it is a variant of Marxist-Leninism called Maoism.

Maybe nothing should have changed.

Ah right. I'm a Brit btw so I don't know the US law on striking (or the UK law for that matter) but fair enough.

As for "actually organising workers as permissible by the law", yeah sure I guess that would have been a good idea, although I don't agree with a minimum wage of $15 in the first place, especially for flipping burgers. That's £12.31/hr… that's crazy. Our minimum wage is £7.20 (if you're 25+ - if you're younger it's less), which is $8.76 (obviously our currency has plummeted recently, so normally it would be about $10 I reckon)

I guess I support workers collecting and trying to bargain for rights for all of them, if they want to. My suggestion of "don't strike unless you're pretty confident you can get away with it" was just practical advice.

Is that the type of society you support? If so, please explain how that would work, because I am one million percent certain that would never, ever work.

(Apologies for Holla Forums memes)

Deng and his reforms were the result of the right wing in the party taking over after Mao's death not some economic necessity Tiananmen Square had Maoists getting mad that socialism was being rolled back and the protesters sang the internationale but of course that's inconvenient for you

Holy fucking kek

Yes. Yes they do. Welcome to history.

Yes it was and it still is, you know exactly what I'm fucking talking about you fucking mong, China still holds public ownership of a lot of shit, it's still a single party state.

the fuck?
so suddenly if the US had a neo reactionary government and turned to feudalism Capitalism doesn't work?

No bully guys. That being said this guy is pretty polite.

k.

America's inflation and among other things has resulted in us not having as much purchasing power as we did so many years ago. 15$ now equates to about $7.50 several decades ago. It is probably the same in your country too, but I am not sure. Of course, you have anons here advocate for a higher min. wage to hasten the internal contradictions of capitalism but that's just conjecture on their part while I myself just want to get payed more to not die in the street.

Yo I do the same as you but I get paid $2 dollars per hour because Mexico.

I work for Comcast, probably your shitty internet provider. If I wasn't maintained by a rich family (lucky I have rich parents) I would have already killed myself.

At least the job isn't on the outsides & it's computer based but I have to move next year. Saving what I can, what I will need.

This happened a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure it's the reason why I'm so against capitalism
Apparently they have to give out raises based off of performance. However, if the employees did not meet the adequate performance, the store gets allocated more money to spend on new employees, new managers, etc.
Didn't even include the several time they didn't pay me. overall 0/10 would not wage slave again.

The point is that history has shown that communism doesn't work, because every time it has been tried, the realities of it have been proper shit.

Okay, then how on Earth could you actually make it work in practice? If communism is as this guy described - - a "stateless, moneyless, classless society", how on Earth would that work? No money? No class? So people just punch each other in the face to fight for power? Except of course as soon as that happens, you've got class again. Because class is inherent - whenever you have a power vacuum someone will jump into it, and that inherently creates a ruling class and an underclass.

I was being polite until my last post, which I concede was a bit rude.

Basically I'm just trying to understand you guys' political views - are they communistic or just socialist, how would they work etc.

Interesting. I don't know if the purchasing power of our minimum wage has gone down, I haven't looked into that. In the UK it steadily goes up each year and I reckon its got as much purchasing power now as it did when I started working on the minimum wage back in 2009. But I know that the middle classes (here and the whole Western world) have certainly lost purchasing power since the last generation though.

My take on $15 is that it seems a bit much, the current wage is $7.25 right? Even $10 or $12 would be a big increase, and seems a bit more realistic.

One thing I'm sure we would agree on is that the 1% have too much wealth right now, I would definitely like to see higher taxes (or tax law actually being enforced) for big business, things like that. And it's interesting that populist movements from both the left and the right are both attacking big business - Donald Trump, B████, and Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn in the UK. I like to think this will result in some sort of redistribution of wealth over the next few decades (not that I normally support such a thing, but when the 1% are getting this rich I do) - and since it has such support on both sides, I think it probably will.

Unpayed overtime?

Oh, and also they had me illegally work 12 hour shifts the weeks before I quit. Since I was part time, and Obamacare mandates that they give me healthcare once I go over a certain number of hours, I would work 2 days a week, go home exhausted, and then spent the off time preparing myself for several more 12 hour long shifts.

I wish.
Instead something went wrong somewhere up in corporate, and I was literally never paid for my time.

You mean some weeks weren't paid because of bureaucratic fuckups?

Don't you Americans have laws protecting you against that?

Capitalism is a cult.

Yeah, but the agencies that are in charge are corrupted to hell.
I work in a right-to-work state, which means that my employer can fire me for any reason legally.
Gay? Fired, no problem.
Ugly? Fired.
Thinking about unionizing? Fired.
If I squeal, I'm replaced with a quick phone call. I would be paid for the work, but I would then be fired as soon as they found out.

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I assume you don't work there anymore, when you stop working there why didn't you pursue what they owed you?

I watched this - - and I criticised it here:

Honestly?
It's a huge pain in the ass to prove.
Several of the checks didn't arrive because I'm pretty sure that a manager edited my punch in / out time to cut several hours off the top, or even the whole day.
If they have you recorded as not working a certain day, the only way to prove that you were there, clocked in, working, is to pull the store security tapes, which were deleted every couple months.
Also, since I am about to get out of college I need them as a reference. They may not have liked paying me for my work, but they certainly appreciated the end result.

Also if you'd like to explain to me how "FALC" would actually work in reality then please do, and we can have a discussion about it

I'll tell you why it won't work

The communist gangster computer god will make it happen.

Because communism has not occurred yet, there is no practical example to give you. But the general idea is, overtime, socialism across the world will eventually result in the breaking down of social constructs of capitalism (no more divisions by ethnicity, etc.) There is no more worry of resource management, because the idea of communally taking and giving according to one's need is ingrained into society as how things are. Also, this taking and giving according to one's needs will result in much more spare time to fish, create art, watch movies, et cetera to live a full and happy life free from all worries. No situation would arise with crime and what not because the material conditions that breed the behavior would no longer be there.

Of course, this is years and years and years down the road. The main thing people usually talk about is socialism and how to apply it first.

Ding, ding, we have a winner.
Everyone thinks the USSR, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, but if anything I would say they were just using the popularity previously associated with Communism / Socialism to gain support.
If anything, some of the Native America tribes were pretty close to Full Communism (young men went and hunted, young women gathered food, then the whole tribe was fed).

They were proto-socialistic at best.

The Native Americans weren't practicing full communism, you are thinking of primitive communism, which most pre-agricultural societies tend to organize around. Full communism entails the end of all labour necessary for survival via automation

Interesting

Why do you long for such a society?

This sort of idyllic utopian society will only be possible if all of the members are willing to participate in it - I would say it would only be possible among very small groups, perhaps 10 or 20, because if it's any larger, then the group will splinter between those who have power and those who don't.

You would have to get a group of people who are all REALLY invested in the idea of living in a commune. Even then, such a unit is ultimately doomed to failure as disputes break out.

Also, by the way, ethnicity is not a "social construct of capitalism". It really, really, really isn't.

That's because they self-identified as communist, but I dunno, maybe they didn't know what they were talking about?

Pic related, the countries that Wikipedia thinks have been "communist countries"

In a way, but they weren't classless - no way. Every single human/animal society that has ever existed had a power structure. Chieftains, group leaders, whatever. This is why the "classless society" thing is just, unfortunately, a complete and utter joke.

Perhaps I should be more polite, I am trying to be polite, but I'm just being honest of what I think of the classless society. It doesn't work. It can't work. Power and the search for it are what define every single animal on this Earth (ultimately access to the prime females, since procreation is the fundamental driving factor behind all life)

True, but other countries self-identify as things that they aren't, for example the DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea) claims to be a democratic institution, but we can all plainly see that this isn't true.

What's wrong with direct democracy?
This board gets a huge rage boner against it, but then breaks down and admits that any true classless communist society would have to be carried out through some form of direct democracy.
I, for one, have no problem with that. I do think that people will find some way to gather around something (religion, income, hobbies, etc.) but a communist state would try to eliminate contradictions without infringing on the freedoms of the proletariat.

Man I can't wait for designer babies and the artificial womb, shit like this will finally be over.

They don't identify their political ideology as "democracy" though.

And also, no outsiders call the DPRK "democratic". But outsiders definitely HAVE called the USSR/China/Cuba "communist", because they all tried to implement, well, communism. Communism as written by Marx. Okay they might not have actually achieved the ideal that you might say is the ONLY thing that is "true communism". But their revolutions were based on the political idea of communism that took hold in the 20th century.

Nothing, but I fail to see how that creates a classless society

Class is based on power. Power is based on resources and, fundamentally, access to females. You will always have men who are stronger in a society and men who are weaker - the stronger men will take resources and power for themselves. That's just how it goes. You can try and challenge the stronger men but you risk being sidelined or killed.

That's just how animals work. Even a commune that agrees to the strictest rules of co-operation… someone has to lead that group. And at some point, "mutual" decisions are not going to work. Something critical will come up, like defending from attackers/predators, or an urgent need for more resources. And someone will say "I am the best person to answer this question, I am experienced in this, and I say X". And someone else will say "no I think I am, and I say Y". Disputes ensue. Disputes are a fact of life. Disputes take place every single day of the week. They're not all just going to agree to be civil with each other… when something really critical comes up that threatens their survival, SOMEONE will step up to the plate and take control of the situation (that's what happens). And at that point the "classless society" breaks down because now somebody is a leader.

It just doesn't work.

If you want access to artificial wombs you will have to pay big money for them, they will not be cheap.

Class is defined by relationship to means of production. Stop trying to make up your own definitions of class, retard.

They didn't, The USSR was a Union of Socialist Republics, and even then Lenin claimed what they had was State Capitalism, Socialism wouldn't describe an economic model until the early Cold War and no leftist State has ever claimed to have accomplished Communism.
The use of Communism to denominate the way Societies and Politics in the eastern block were organized was simply a way to shut down discussion regarding theory.

Wait, are you this into niche political ideology because you are worried about even distribution of pussy?

I don't even know why communists are worried about access to pussy. Communism will have sexbots, but they will all look like Hajime Sorayama's art.

The reason why corporations are going to fail to exist probably has something to do with the tendency of the rate of profit to fall. I'm no expert on this, but I think the theory goes that firms generally want to undercut their competitors, and to cut down costs to do so a firm will invest in technological innovations to cut their labor costs and increase productivity. If successful, it will allow the firm to gain short-term increase in profit. Firms unable to adapt go out of business and their employees are let go. Firms that do adapt are able to take advantage of the new technology and gain increase in productivity, which also allows them to cut labor costs and fire now irrelevant and/or extraneous employees. As we can see here in each outcome, employees lose their job as they are either replaced by machinery or the business employing them goes out of business. As a long term process throughout the economy, this means that as people lose their jobs to technological employment, they also lose their ability to buy many commodities on the market. What this spells for the economy as a whole is this tendency of the rate of profit to drop. Eventually, it drops so low that there reaches a crisis in the economy, for which there needs to be some sort of countervailing tendency to get out of. As this proceeds with technologies advancement we will be seeing the automation of all necessary work, but the technology will be in the hands of multinational corporations and out of the control of the rest of humanity. I can easily see a situation arising similar to the antebellum South, where a small elite benefit from a system where they have to do no work, and the rest of humanity are languishing away like the poor whites were, left out of the economy. This is why it is so important to seize the means of production, before its too late

I am talking about the DIVISIONS between ethnicity. I also explained clearly above the theory behind it. The desire and vying for power will not exist due to the removal of the material conditions that would cause these motivations to even arise.

I long for such for a society not because of the concept of communism itself (although I do find it pretty sweet.), but because I see no other alternative to capitalism but socialism. Capitalism is destroying the world and the capitalists who run it don't give a damn about how many people suffer and toil underneath them, or how many barrels of toxic waste they dump in the ocean. I myself work a shitty ass job, so there is self-interest involved as well. I know that "we" are not the good guys. There is no moral high ground for me because even though I know the things I say seem noble, I and many others see no other way for us to rid ourselves of capitalism other than by violent revolution. It would undoubtedly kill a lot of people and there is not a single guarantee that this revolution will even come within my lifetime, but I work my shitty as job and I come home to turn on the tv to see how 22 miners died due to budget cuts and I how the world is dying and I vote and yell and nothing ever changes. I take a look at all the fat pigs at the top of the food chain pulling all the fucking strings and how many millions of people depend of the meager crumbs that is wages to purchase common necessities like food and water and I know something has got to change. Things are not going to get better by simply focusing on superficial feels like racism and feminism, but by changing the entire structure. Reinvent the wheel itself. I've a million other stories about it, but they all basically boil down
so I'm not going to fucking bother. You get the point though I am sure.

webm related.

Right… so you're not even open to discussion on what class is?

For the record, pic related is how OED defines social class, and it doesn't make any reference to the "means of production". That's because that definition of social class is limited to communist theory - it's not a definition shared by everybody.

China still identifies as a communist state though. The ruling party is literally called the "Communist Party of China". Communism is the ideology that motivated them - it doesn't matter that they never implemented full communism - that's a separate issue.

Fine, they don't implement "real communism", but they have been referred to as communist countries for a very very long time

Basically yes, because of human nature. How are you going to enforce the rules of your communist society?

It's not really niche, ask any biologist/zoologist about why power is fought over in animal societies and they will say access to females for the purpose of reproduction.

We're no different. We're animals. Ask an evolutionary biologist and they will say, again, the thing that orders our society is access to prime females for procreation. Which is, of course, true. You want to mate with the prime females? Earn a lot of money, or just be a Chad.

But, let me get the record straight if you will, can you say that this boils down to you wanting access to pussy?

There is no reason to do so.

The Marxist definition of class is the only one that has any meaning.

Human nature can be determined in the context of the society it is in. A society without the material conditions that breed the motivation to seize power or rob or kill, etc etc. will not have those things.

No one on this board gives a shit about social class, except for maybe some fringe anarchists, since its practically meaningless when you talk about it that way. The organization of the production process is what gives a class its power. The slave does the work and the master takes the product. The serf does the work and the feudal lord takes the product. The prole does the work and the bourg takes the product. It is these power relations that communism seeks to abolish, not some people's insecurity at obtaining sex. Being a "Chad" will not get you into bourgeoisie now, get you into the nobility under feudalism, or make you a master under slave society. Not everything in life revolves around sex. No communist would actually try to abolish class if they meant it the way you talk about it. Maybe try looking at it in our terms instead of going on a tangent no one cares about

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Also, read up on these:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_society
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter-gatherer
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_affluent_society
They're basically all describing the same thing, the primitive communism that was referenced earlier in the thread. For most of human history, people lived in these egalitarian communities. It only ended, not after the rise of some "Chad" who monopolized all the women as you would have us believe, but by the rise of agriculture, which allowed for the accumulation that led to the rise of class society. This is why communists look at how the production process is organized, because its changes in it that cause change in the class structure

Yeah, this thread got massively derailed. It was better when it was just sharing stories, instead of trying to correct the mistakes of an user who thinks class has to do with how much sex you have

Access to means of production is the ultimate source of material wealth and power, the prime example of which is real estate, arable land, then further going on to machinery that makes goods, or commodities for sale. Tell me, if you were able to make your own necessities and some luxuries with relative ease, without really having to trade for it on the market, would you trade on the market?

The whole point of FALC is to obviate the need for a market and the attendant oversupply of commodities, reducing overhead in the supply of goods. In late capitalism, we now have markets in surplus capital equipment. This is a massive inefficiency. In economics, things like "obsolete" machinery are only obsolete due to not being able to meet market demands, but it doesn't mean they aren't fit for their original purpose of making whatever it was they were supposed to make. Capitalist modes of production are designed to shave as much off the final product in terms of cost as possible and make as much of a product as it can, as fast as it can, meeting the bare minimum quality standard, within an expected market demand. A machine that makes 100 loaves of bread per bake is obviously less efficient than one that makes 200 per hour or 100 per half hour (though that last part usually doesn't mean the same thing due to technological constraints) but it doesn't mean it's broken. It simply doesn't meet consumer demand. Meeting consumer demand is what becomes a problem. If a community gets ahold of one of these older machines that can bake the bread, they can pool grain they grow and run it for a little while, and they free themselves from having to trade with the "more efficient" bread-baking company; trading by itself imposes a huge opportunity cost on a consumer through the time they make, plus the lack of information they got from the purchase of a finished product; companies' processes and recipes are typically secret and you don't know what you eat buying from a company. This is all a matter of retooling the economy to serve the greater interest of people at large instead of private profit. The tools already exist, it is just a matter of copying or seizing them, it makes no difference. Any gaps in the automatic market can be met by cottage industries.

Much of this was difficult to do in a system that had a difficult time sharing information around 1917, but now this happens all the time through the Internet. Supply chains and allocation of basic goods can be done automatically. Goods can be added to the production register through popular vote. We have enough trash material to be able to make new products from it easily through recycling. It would have zero marginal cost if properly implemented.

The problem of cost is an artificial one imposed by an economic system where at least 100 million tons of food are wasted each year in the US alone. It is pure politics. Once it gets to the point where a family can subsist even on a plot of land the size of an average suburban property, that's where communism will start happening.

Most of you just sound bitchmade.

You guys, honestly.

Better yet, public free use.

We'll all just fuck each other, and it won't be rape because consent is a spook

Enough of this quiet life. I want
WORK

They are insufferable people. Working in a restaurant is hell. It's like having two bosses, one at the tables and one in the kitchen.

Chef can't even do his job right, I had to remind him to put garnish onto dishes. Got to the point where I just told a manager to deal with it, though I still got entangled in the mess. Afterwards he would sarcastically ask if I wanted garnish on every dish. Such a fucking child.

Not me. Story of my dad. He's the son of a man who started working at age 6 cutting peat and had to sustain his family from age 12, hard Lutheran work ethics going on and strict money saving regimes. Not horror story. Just story. Don't know the worst details, just a rough outline.

tldr: If you are in lower and middle management and care about your workers, you will get in trouble with upper management. Also: living in a country with some rudimentary rights for workers is not the worst thing in the world.

God, I wish I had that.

shit, can't you wring some money out of MickDonalds for that? that's a discrimination lawsuit right?

Yeah, the union movement in America is a sad joke. Almost worse than having no unions.

Unions around the globe have ceased to function even as defensive organizations of workers struggle; now they function openly as an arm of management.

The $15 dollar wage, which is nowhere near a living wage, is a lie. These agreements are phased in over several years, ==so enjoy $15 in 2020==. In Seattle and other cities that have passed these cynical wage laws, employers who hire union labor are ==exempt from paying the higher wage==.

Yeah, he should definitely get suey. Chop suey.

What you describe is not capitalism, it's pressuring you to quit because of mismanagement.

Don't confuse mismanagement with profit-seeking.

This is fucking infuriating. You were basically robbed at gunpoint and if you were to do anything about it that would only screw you further.

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Part of me wants to go to trade school to be a carpenter or some shit, but I'm afraid it would look weird having already been to undergrad. I just despise office work so much

Fucking nice, 10/10, I'd be speechless.
Hotels and restaurants are hell on earth.

Not him, but anyone who pipes up about getting what they're owed is painting "fire me" on themselves in bold letters. The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.

Yes

Fuck food service and fuck these people to death.

I hate that bullshit.
Have fun with that.

Bump for more hellish histories.

The struggle is real.

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Please kill me.

Murrican dream. At least I got to eat all the good food cooked to perfection and then not pay for it because I "accidentally made too much in the rush".

at least i can afford me my ice cream

Can that be really worse than chart music?
It took me several years of working at the same company to figure out that the different announcers come from the fact that they actually have two different radio stations they switch between, to mix things up. Problem is they play exactly the same songs.
I admit that was a bit better than our stuff. (Best one was Vaari Vaari by Harbhajan Maan, it's on YT.) But at this point I'd rather hear songs about doubling potato production or something. Any other topic than lovelovelovesexsexsex.

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Not really that bad but that was the first time I'd ever seriously thought about beating someone to death

I live in Sweden and have the choice to not work, problem is i either feel like a parasite if i don't work or like i'm being exploited if i do.
Whatever i am just happy Sweden isn't a complete mess like the US.

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I fucking hate that, what a dumb bitch

if they ever put me in a position of power I'm going to unionize the place

having a job probably sucks, but believe me not having one is worse

They both suck in their own perfectly unique ways.

Tbh comrade I honestly don't think you've ever lived in either state if you thin 15 dollars an hour would be a very generous wage in either state. "Muh lower cost of living" is meme that doesn't factor in things like higher costs deriving from shittier infrastructure, porkies and state governments who guard any work benefits like its their nuts, and all types of bullshit fees.

Hell you can trace most of the "lower cost of living" to the fact that real estate prices are generally lower cause no one wants to live there but afaik rents are going up in both states to make up for this deficit.

Yes, and the democratic people's republic of Korea is a democratic people's republic

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