Is Valves overly defensive reactions to Overwatch just one sign of TF2's decline?

I got you fam

Crowbcat can.

Bruh.

You may have beat me to it, but at least I got 2's

What's a likely scenario for all of this to crash down with no survivors?

For a long time it just seemed like Valve neglected TF2. Updates weren't really inspiring anything and the last thing that came out before this just threw in some features from CS:GO.

I really think of rd_asteroid. It was a fun and exciting new take on the formula, but it was strange that the map would change and always be in a perpetual state of incompleteness. Then it just sort of disappeared, and only recently have I been finding servers running the map but very few with people playing on them. Seeing things done in such a half-ass feet-dragging manner really made me wonder how much Valve actually cared. Do they make games anymore? I think they just sit back and count their money.

Maybe Overwatch is a threat to them. Maybe it inspired some people to actually get do something for fun -who knows. I only really have two problems with TF2: the microtransactions and the dumb shit items that ruin the aesthetic of the game. Wasn't the head of community development for this game a Brony? That would explain a lot of the aesthetic bullshit.

end of an era

Do you know about the current CSGOlotto situation?

The fire rises and Gabes in trouble

Do you mind spoonfeeding me the details?

I hadn't heard about TF2 for years until people brought it up desperately trying to stay relevant with the release of overwatch.

The fire rises.

I feel like there was a good few years where everyone just seemed to be playing catch-up with Valve. But it seems anyone that makes games at Valve was sacrificed to the Steam beast, forced to make cards, and gems, and spend all the their creative efforts to countering anything Russians do. The whole competitive update just seems like the knee-jerk, copy-cat response that other companies used to do with Valve.

The matchmaking update has made TF2 infinitely more enjoyable and fun than it has been for ages.
TF2 has had the same number of players for like 3 years, it has gained around 10k more at peak times since the update.

TF2 will never die, I have no idea why some people seem so hell bent on hating it with such a passion. Why would you keep talking about it dying if you don't even play it? I mean shit at least do some research about how many people play it before making yourself look like a retard.

Hello TFIDF. How many crate keys have you bought today?

Hey polygon
Wrong website
Also literally everything in competitive has been in the game's files since before overwatch was even revealed. So get the fuck out you faggot secondary talking shit like you know what you are talking about but really you don't.

I have never bought keys or crates or anything from the mannco store for that matter.

If calling me a shill is the only defense or argument you can make then I think you maybe should leave and go back to cuckchan.

Quite the opposite actually, Blizzard is bleeding shekels while Valve is making insane amounts of money from Dota2 and CS:GO

I'll do it:

I believe that covers it up to this point, although shit might've changed since I last looked, or I could have gotten something wrong like an idiot. Last one's especially-likely.

I'm sure i believe you valued consumer. truly valve is our greatest ally eh?

You've got some personal vendetta here? Has Valve fiddled your butthole?

Tell me more user

Anyone got that "How to ruin a hobby" comic? The one that says "The few remaining people who take the hobby seriously get called tryhards and nerds"?

That picture describes pretty much what happened to TF2

Overwatch has had no impact on the amount of people playing TF2. The game's audiences are completely different despite how similar the games are.

High. If someone legitimately was to take stuff like those videos to the press and suggested they run a story and started building awareness that this is gambling that is available at anytime in your home, sort of targets children and young adults, and makes you a target for a weird demographic of people who want to steal and cheat for skins; shit could get real quick if parents start realizing little Timmy isnt even playing the game anymore, he's gambling with real world money.
If someone did that it'd be for the best. I think people really need to consider how anti consumer these systems really are in games.

Why are Michael Rosen edits so fucking funny?youtube.com/watch?v=zZ2MvRd7zcE

noiyce.

I did not mean to post that link.
It's the same link as the embed, but I meant to erase it before posting

Nice headline. That question is so loaded that it tastes like clickbait.

and those that would say it are blizzdrones

kek

Well, you are OP so it fits.

Is that the case? I heard Overwatch made a ton of money, granted WoW has been dying for years. As for Valve, I wonder why they even bother supporting TF2 at this rate, it seems everyone is playing CS:GO and Dota instead

Blizzard claims Overwatch has 10 million people playing the game but we all know that Blizzard likes to make up numbers so their stock doesnt crash and investors leave them

Hearthstone is making alot of cash for virtually no investment because big streamers and other shitlords are buying those new packs of cards and Blizzard like a jew they are are releasing new expansions packed with new cards that are ALWAYS superior to previous expansions so you are either forced to buy those new decks or lose in 80% of fights.

TF2 is pretty well established and maybe the release of comp is an utter coincidence but I cant imagine its really drawing anyone new. Anyone who wanted a more serious playstyle has (or should have) been playing lobbies and shit for years now.

Its great Valve continue to support the game so many years past release but I think its kinda had its day. If they wanted to really grab peoples attention and bring back old players they'd be better off adding an official TF2C mode/launcher.

i used to love this game but haven't played it in at least a year and a half now. i tried playing it again yesterday and it just didn't feel right. i was just bored.

Haven't played tf2 in quite a while. A friend of mine told me about all the crazy and shitty changes they've made and I've decided to avoid it entirely ever since.

Here you go

Everyone should also read Lewis' essay, and I mean everyone:
lewissociety.org/innerring.php

It took me years to earn my black bill's hat, you faggots are just fox and graping.

See

One game people don't give a fuck about for a long time. Another is perfectly generic waifubait that is getting shilled. Guess what? OP sucks cocks.

Damn, those wasted digits. And you know, I kinda liked TF2's style of gameplay before Valve, FatFuckerCEO, and you"le hat game XXDDD" faglords ruined it. Fuck you.

I HATE THEM

I played the game just as hard as you, and never bought a single key. The cosmetics were just one of the many ways to reach the top.
Too bad you never hear about people bragging about duels, or people who win competitions. But who's fault is that?

Than why has Overwatch been having lots more new memes lately ?

Why the fuck would memes effect the playerbase?

Oh sweet bubbeleh.

Considering how it underwent a complete identity from
to
and is now trying to desperately balance the two, then yes. TF2 has some serious issues.

In fact, the competitive mode is probably going to further highlight how fucking horrendous the design of the weapons and classes are now - how utterly pointless most items are, how tragically useless Pyro can be, and how enormously versatile and superior the Soldier is compared to the other classes, etc. The game has been a dumping group for Valve's shitty ideas and the fact that they're trying to half-assedly salvage it for something meant to be "competitive" is embarrassing.

...

The fact that a human being used their time and brain to make this makes me want to die.

TL;DR Valve is too stupid to add quality content so they've put in fluff

We are all controlled by the memes

You, because you can't stop sucking Gabe's cock and showing off your e-peen just so you can show and tell me and the other anons here these supposed "duels" and "competitions". You say "b-b-but I was before f2p, I never b-b-bought the keys." and yet your first post in this thread is not "Yeah TF2 isn't the same" or some other contribution. It's simply "look at my hat :DDD It took years to get while you guys are faggots XXDDD" Thanks for proving my point jackass.

Btw, don't bother showing me your duels or stats. Don't tell me what you have done to try and get Valve to actually give a damn for a change. I won't care and won't change my opinion of you. It's too late anyways. Five fucking years too late.

You might be on to something here. Makes me imagine something like this.

If they actually try to fix the fucking game, they'll be killed.
I was a Scout main when I used to play, and I can tell you that Scout is a little OP some times.
Heavies are just a fucking joke if you can juke for shit, or if you have something like the Soda Popper, and they're meant to be a wall that stops classes like Scout. If you looked at pic related without knowing anything about the game, you'd think the guy on the left would easily be able to beat the one on the right.
The only classes I ever had trouble with were Soldiers and Demomen. If they tried to balance Scout, Demo or Soldier you'd get so much intense asspain that you'd probably get several thousand people leave.
Valve has painted themselves into a corner here.

One of the problems is that, compared to CS:GO and Dota 2, TF2 makes much less of a profit than the other Valve titles out there. It has a steady userbase, but a large majority are just casual players who either flaunt their cosmetics or just enjoy playing public servers and don't worry about hats

I don't understand why Valve is pushing for a more competitive-oriented and streamlined experience when TF2 was always designed with a casual focus in mind. The game has had a competitive scene for years, but I don't think it was implemented well at all for this update. 6s players will still use custom-made lobbies rather than the Matchmaking system and Highlander players are shit outta luck for this new update, even though it's closer to TF2's original intentions and design

tl;dr Valve shifted to competitive to focus on what made them money in CS:GO and Dota 2 because TF2 has been in a slump for the past year the last good update was Gun Mettle

I think one of the main problems is that Scout can fire his scattergun instantly, rather than having to wait between shots like with the shotgun

TF2 is mismanaged but at its core, it still has a high as fuck skill ceiling which keeps people playing. Theres a clear divide between new people and people who have been around for years. An inexperianced soldier might run around, maybe doing a fair amount of damage, whereas one who's been playing years will be rocket jumping around killing heavies and scouts with ease. Scouts are hard as hell to hit becuase they know how to move around fast and not get hit. Medics need to learn how to breath and not drop uber. Even a class as low-skill floor as the heavy has room for improvement as an experianced heavy knows how to ambush people and keep their medic alive, when to engage and when to retreat.

Overwatch on the other hand, doesnt really have anything that requires a good amount of skill. Pharah is extremely mobile becuase of her jetpack. Tracer can just blink around quickly and if she gets in trouble, she can just recall. Mercy's heal rate is constant, and if she dies she doesnt lose her ult, which can resurrect the entire team. Dont even get me started on Bastion.

Overwatch is just big at the moment becuase its flashy, its new, and it makes even the most casual players feel good playing it. On the other hand, theres a REASON why TF2 is still one of the most played games on steam almost a decade after release, and its not just silly memes and hats, believe it or not.

GIT GUD at trading, faggot.

You have no power here cuck.

nah

Holy shit you really are jealous. I was just joking about the hat thing since its a meme at this point, but sorry you got left out.

If you really are tired of the f2p troglodytes, then git gud and play with the pros. Believe it or not there are people who take tf2 seriously.

KEEP YOUR HAT GAME OFF THIS IMAGE BOARD
KEEP YOUR HAT GAME OFF THIS IMAGE BOARD

Oh fuck, look calm down man.

Dont make me tell your dad, nobody has to die here.

user, it's okay if you want to go down on a guy.

...

some overwatch players might even end up returning to tf2 if they arent completely bored of it. a lot of people have buyers remorse with that game, endlessly bitching about balance or matchmaking. but those are the kind of people that wanted a game that to take its place. so those probably arent the ones that spend a lot of money on keys

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never faget

kill yourself

I always hear this, how is he useless?

Because soldier babbies don't understand ambushing and usually instantly die when they switch over.

Pyro like Heavy isn't a pubstomper class and takes practice to play effectively.

Oh God This.

TF2's biggest problem is Valve's refusal to admit that the problem lies with those three classes (four if you count the medic) and not with the classes which actually have well defined weaknesses and limitations that balance them. Pretty much every attempt to shoehorn the other classes to be more viable (Mini Sentries, easy-mode spy unlocks, the seriously overcompensative heavy buffs and unlocks) in competitive have been the worst changes made to the game.

And as you say, if Valve ever had the balls to actually do anything about it those crowd of solder/demomen/scout players who really ought to just fuck off and play quake already would bitch to no end. Sort of like what happened when someone at Valve briefly grew a pair and tried stopping the sticky launcher from being used as an 8-clip rocket launcher.

It's just some faggot baiting that has been doing that all morning today.
Some threads ago he did the same except it was /jose/

I never understood this until I played on a server against good oponents
Due to his extremely limited range, he's only viable up to a certain skill level, his weaknesses can be exploited and there's only so much airblast can do.

He can't keep up with good classes and he can't win fights against them the way Heavy and Sniper can. The only way he fits into any gameplan is as medic-bitch and suicidal uber-puffer.

Did you play spycheck and ambush?

So it's someone trying to make pasta?
That's even worse.

competitive gaming was a mistake

no problem with competitive gaming

Problem is when devs make the classes they play OP and refuse to balance them out so other team members have shitty jobs like trying to make other classes on same level as the OP class BUT the retarded dev wont allow other classes to be better than his favorite class so all this shit leads to retarded cycle of bullshit changes.

Pure example is WoW where rogues (aka 2 button braindead class) have been dominating for 12+ years because their creator is a retarded braindead moron who jerks off to invisible ninjas 3 shotting people.

store.steampowered.com/news/22883/

I never mained pyro.
I just noticed how easily he was to counter once my team (holy crackers teamwork in TEAM fortress 2!) was able to move as one and set up a perimeter. if my direct hit didn't get him, he was sniped or mauled by a heavy medic combo. Ambushes don't work against people watching eachother. Spy suffers from this to a lesser extant.
Pyro is an easy way to topscore in pubs and impossible against good players

I have to disagree with you on the point you make about Gunmettle being good. It was a big part of what started this downward spiral with the game. Main focus of that update was the contracts you have to pay for to get garish skins that further break the artstyle. It's maps weren't all that great either and it was sort of the start of 6s focused balances, which were further exemplified in Tough Break and MYM.
I absolutely agree with you on the point about how misguided the focus on competitive in a casual game is, though.It's a misguided choice made in an attempt to appeal to esports faggots (large part of why they focused on 6s for it rather than HL) and I don't see it having any long term positive effects. A lot of players have been alienated by this update and the last year of updates and are leaving, and the new player experience and tutorials still are inadequate at helping newer players actually get into the game.

So even though it made them bank through keys they are cutting and running to save themselves from a suit. sweatingbrony.jpg

He could support the team by airblasting, too. He is a fucking potato, I am not the most skilled Pyro player but that guy had ADHD.

HOLY SHIT WATTSON, YOU'RE ONTO SOMETHING.

yeah youre right. i just think games are overall more fun at mediocre skill levels. personally i always have more fun as im learning a game, or when i was younger and just didnt have the ability to play better.

...

He has no advanced mobility and is a close-quarters specialist in a game where every class is more effective at close ranges. He relies on ambush and flanking, but is less effective than Scout at both.

He's also the only class with TWO hard counters: Heavy and Engineer. It's flat out impossible for Pyro to beat a Heavy unless you use the Flaregun and they stand still for three minutes.

Pyro didn't even have airblast at launch, Spy had a delay for backstabs, and Engineer couldn't move his gear.

More to the point, Sniper and Pyro should have been cut or severely reworked in the move from TFC to TF2.

Sniper is the only long range combatant in a game of close-mid range combat. He sits back and plays Duck Hunt while everyone else engages. Pyro is a close quarter specialist in game where every class excels in close and mid ranges.

Pyro should have been about offensive area denial as a counterpart to Engineer. Set up flame barriers and oil slicks to slow enemy response as they either go around or take damage.

Also cosmetics are a good thing, you can usually tell a person has played for a long time if they present themselves nice.

The fag with 3 unusuals that all clash colors and the gibus usually both suck horse dick compared to the Heavy wearing a rather cohesive outfit.
Or engineers dressed up as Black Mages from final fantasy.

Seriously fuck engineers that dress as Black mages and their retarded super effective building placement.

this is why i personally dropped it when it went f2p.

Scout can also last less when he gets into a true firefight, and Pyro is the best way to stop enemy pushing directly.

Sometimes good players wear a gibus so that people underestimate them. I thought this was a joke at first too.

Cosmetics were fine, but only in moderation. Military-themed or hats pertaining to a classes' personality or theme work, but promos range all over the place. Paint can be good, but only if it's something like gold, black, and white, and not stuff like pink or lime

Game was a lot of fun with items, Holla Forums is just autistic. What really killed once and for all was the Tough Break "rebalance" where they pulled the progressive maymay of changing what already exists to their tastes rather than bothering to make something new. Of course the weapons they had to rebalance were because of existing shitty tweaks they'd made to the core gameplay that rewarded you less for skill and more for bullshit. So with soldier entirely played out already, pyro ruined since airblast stun shat its way into existence and then repetitively trampled on over and over since they finally got around to making some new pyro weapons and it became le epic trendy class, and now new bullshittery of giving demo a fraction of the ammo to compensate for more and more OP new demo weaps…it's finally really actually dead.

You know here's the crazy thing, that isn't even your own opinion, you just read someone else say that and you said it because you thought it was your best chance to get Holla Forums Gold credit.

Isn't that right? You didn't even read my post, you just want to not hear opinions that you don't like.

Scout can DODGE. He's faster and can double jump. On top of that, he deals far more damage so firefights end faster with him.

The extra fifty hitpoints are useless when you're eating damage a Scout would have dodged.

Yeah thats the lockbox audience reaction i expect. Keep on goyin'

they arent in legal trouble though. they sold keys, thats the loophole. read: LOOPHOLE. goes around the law, they arent in hot water

i think everyone has more fun while learning because the experience is genuine while at learned level gameplay seems boring and just a numbers game

Yes, that's virtually what I said people who are better at the game gnerally present themselves nicely. As in they don't dress up as little jimmy that got a lightning hat with $3000 of mommy's money on keys.

Didn't the latest update add crates to the store? Crates that don't require keys?

Even that fig leaf of an excuse doesn't seem to hold water anymore.

Pyro is a very risky class. It's a class geared for close-range combat in a game which has a very high damage ramp-up at close range so your primarily function when playing is to constantly put yourself in danger potentially dying in a couple of shots.

He actually has a lot of the Scout's weaknesses, while not having the benefit of the Scout's strengths.

That's not to say that you can't get good at him and fuck a lot of players shit up though, he's honestly the most fun class in the game which more kill variety than any other class in the game and getting reflects is extremely satisfying.

But the cold truth is any Scout/Soldier/Demoman/Heavy who is as experienced as their class (or in Heavy's case, merely competent) as you are as Pyro will completely counter you. It's painfully apparent that no one in the TF2 team has tried getting good at the class themselves.

Scout's dodge is useless if someone uses a well placed explosive or uses firearms and placing shots. Pyro can stack damage quickly if he is ambushing, and is pretty capable of team support.

That's a non sequitur, and I'm not going to argue it.

[Tipping intensifies]

More like against teams of top players.
It takes a lot of coordination and skill to make pyros useless. Individual skill alone can't.

Thats simply not true either. Pyro is still shit at anything that isnt at around 30 feet, and shotguns can only do so much past that range.

That's the point friend.
A few years ago I frequently played on a small server with little exposure and a small but devoted community. It slowly died as people lost interest int TF2, but during those months, I realized when adults are playing, they play as 1 and pyro gets shat on.

Individual skill can easily turn a pyro ambush into a trade, or worse if there's a healthpack nearby. And trading is worse for the pyro, since he put all that effort into getting around that corner in the first place.

Well as a heavy, yeah, but I can't see the pyro dying in an ambush against any other class.

Almost, still Pyro counters Soldier better then any other class.

From my perspective the game has too much garbage code which causes serious issues, specially when trying to hit someone, you have delayed hitboxes for starters, I grew more and more frustrated each time a new update messed with my aiming to the point of quitting.

Specially since he is almost immune to anything lately, he can jump around and touch a stream of fire and never get hurt.

Pyros exists solely to tell Spy players they are doing a good job when half the enemy team goes pyro

What? I havent ever had those.

They didnt add highlander and their game deserve to dine because of that

Is this card even supposed to do anything?

Sure, maybe you'll get lucky and the slot machine will give you a Medic or a Sniper but you've got to go further into the backline and past all the classes that can kill you before you'll find them.

Have you played since they added airblast?

Back in the day you could turn a Mystical Elf into a powerhose for 1 turn and survive long enough to make a comeback.

I can see people still continuing to be addicted to virtual item purchasing, i was at one point.
But matchmaking is a fucking MESS. We had about 4 matches in a god damn row were an entire team flat out left, lots of people specifically in the commiefornia area are getting horrible lag (such as myself) among many other problems. TF2 may end up dying out pretty soon if these problems continue to ensue.

Good times. May be in our future.

I should elaborate, there isn't enough time for any of those classes to get two shots in, because the pyro in this situation should light them on fire, airblast them away, switch to shotgun and backpedal while firing. Or just reflect the rocket against a soldier.
Pretty stupid for a pyro to just sit in someone's face and M1, I thought we were talking about good players.

If you want to mow down hordes of enemies, Verdun offers a pretty good Maschinengewehr 08/15 experience.

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no love for flare gun?

But TF2's competitive mode was in beta months and months ago

As fun as it is, its a hot, red turd. The Detonator in particular is fucking horrible. The Reserve Shooter is a lot more effective at its job.
But due to the fact that the Pyro Update #2 is coming, I am pretty sure the Sharp Shooter at the workshop will get added, which would be fuckin amazing, I love it.

I don't think I can do it anymore.

As a very experienced Pyro player I would say your best bet against a skilled Soldier is either a skilled Scout or another skilled soldier.

If TF2 was balanced then a competent Pyro would be able to shut down a Soldier, but in practice it's too easy for skilled Soldier players to aim their rockets so that they land outside the Pyro's airblast range while still getting the Pyro with substantial splash damage.

If a rocket is shot too far for a pyro to airblast it away, then it won't take much effort to simply dodge out of the way.

There's a time and place for everything. The time and place for M1 just happens to be while your flare is passively reloading. S + M2 pyros are free kills while a W + M1 pyro will make you sweat at least a little bit

Addendum: Proper M1 pyro play is like being a god with a lightning gun, except you have way more room for error at the cost of a shorter range

The problem is that whenever Valve gives Pyro the slightest buffs, Soldierbabies and Scoutfags throw a huge hissy fit and claim the Pyro is overpowered. Hence why puff and sting got nerfed to oblivion despite being Pyro's most reliable source of kills.

I don't get why Reserve Shooter also got nerfed, I mean, it was a good anti-Scout weapon since they keep jumping around among other airborne classes.

Please kill yourself

Anyways, A good scout player would, at best, only by a flame flick to ignite and that's about it. It's hard to track a scout as a pyro, especially since a scout can easily get out of the Pyro's range.
A good Soldier Player can fire 2 rockets before the Pyro can melt down the Soldier. You might get a good reflect but even then, you don't have the luxury of being able to aim quickly enough to hit.

why, that's what it was called?

In my experience, RS is better with stock than Degreaser. Your switch time is increased just enough that with good tracking, you'll land a meatshot immediately before an enemy hits the ground, so they won't get flung across the map. Still hate it though.

...

I'm not autistic enough any more to do DPS graphs for fucking TF2 of all games, but I'm highly confident that flare + flame M1 while it reloads is better than pure shotgun M1.

This would be at mid-to-close range so you can't going to have much time to move out of the splash range. Even if you do your only direction to dodge is backwards, not ideal for a class who is supposed to be getting in range of their target.

It isnt, close range shotgun deals 30 damage minimum (a huge miss) up to slightly over 100. If you use reserve, the numbers go even higher. Flare deals 45 damage

Shooting flare after setting them on fire deals much more damage but it's much more harder to hit if they arent cornered

I mean it's a disgusting weapon and a crutch for shit pyros who can't position, aim or DM. The fact that the minicrits throw people back more then standard shots meaning that you can essentially keep someone pinned to a wall while you get a damage boost. It's the opposite of fun to play against.

The only thing about running it with stock (or any flamethrower for that matter) is that you're pretty much fucked for poking due to the smaller clip size.

Crit Flare = 90 Damage + 60 over 6 seconds
Shotgun Meatshot = 90 damage

So while you're waiting around for the flare to reload, you could've pumped in the remainder of the shotgun clip into them.

That being said, the Flare gun is good for longer range poking or finishing off fleeing targets

Versatility, nigger.

So you be sayin madden is da realest game eva?

He was never good to begin with but with vanilla TF2 he had at least the benefit of making people slowly die in a row and was a "good" suicidal class to play. Though nowadays everyone can douse and self heal, so whatever design philosophy went into crafting his and Medic's updates went to shit, while at least Medics can still Uber.

He who fights demons
Like you should not even have this conversation, valve only listens to feedback when it's about making money or fixing glaring bugs, don't ever forget that they released a tf2 beta game to test new tools only for it to never really see any use

The Detonator is Pyro's only source of mobility, though. If lighting people on fire actually did anything, it would be good at that, too.

Shotgun requires a lot of pellets to hit, flare only requires one. I haven't really played recently and I know they messed with airblast and momentum a bit, but the puff n sting isn't famous for no reason. Also RS only gets its buff if you waste time switching to primary, puffing, and switching back. Unless you're using the degreaser, that's a lot of wasted time, and degreaser + rs has the problem of you hitting your enemy at the top of their puff arc and flying a million miles away

That's kinda fair, but I mean the real sort of autism about weapon switch speeds and how often flamethrower particles deal damage etc. Once upon a time I would have done it, but not now.

The only extra versatility you really gain is in pyro v pyro. Meatshot fights tend to get ended within 2-3 shots. If you fumble the first shot, you're toast. Flare lets you harrass enemies better at any range, and against predictable opponents you can get free long-distance crits without too much effort. They both have their arguments for versatility.

Powerjack has increased move speed while active. It's not much mobility, but it does come in handy at times.

I've been doing great on competitive by using stock/scorch shot (was it?)/that one melee that makes you go fast

Reaching mid a the same time than the scout and then setting everyone on fire is really helpful

I see it as this.
Almost everyone at Valve is doing VR stuff, since it's a new market full of opportunities and there's only a skeleton crew (a bunch of faggots) who keep TF2 on lifesupport, doing the absolute minimum amount of work that still keeps the interest up with meaningless updates.

I'd say the real problem is that airblast was an afterthought from Valve. Valve constantly add new projectile attacks into the game that shows they hadn't given even a moment to think about whether it would be fair on Pyro or not.

Probably the most laughable thing is the ammo costs, ever look at the maths for it?

Soldier has 20 rockets.

Demoman has 16 Grenades and 24 Stickies

The Pyro? 10 airblasts with Stock, 8 with Degreaser, 4 with Backburner from an ammo pool that he shares with his fucking primary attack.

The Huntsmen is also fucked in this regard at only 12 arrows. You would think the least Valve could do is make sure the classes that are considered less useful have as much ammo as the ones that are.

Thing is, if you're at close range you have a freaking primary which was made for close range attacks. Flare gun just makes so much more sense as a Pyro secondary, since you've got a long range attack to complement your short range primary. And landing hits with it is no trouble when you've learnt how to aim.

Whatever happened to degreaser/axetinguisher?

Only mini crits from the front now, user.

I know there was once a glitch that happened if you switched back to your flame thrower after you fired the detonator shot at a flaming target, it would do the flare gun's crit damage.

And only from the front too? Christ.

Axtinguisher got nerfed so it only mini-crits from the front. It does full crits from behind, but he's AFK if he doesn't turn around. Even then, you'll need at least three swings to down him plus the time taken to ignite.

Scout please
Anyways, there's two main problems with using the flamethrower as close range rather than switch to shotgun.
1 - Delay post Airblast
2 - The flamethrower is mechanically fucked meaning you'd rarely get the full 150/s out of the flamethrower (or 120/s at max range) due to how the flamethrower works. Adding onto this, the 90 damage is instantaneous whereas the flamethrower deals it's damage over time, which, you could get in a good 3 shots in 2 seconds.
If the flamethrower had 100% accuracy then you'd be right on the money, however, that is simply not the case.

Don't get me wrong, I love the flare gun and I'm always fucking around with the Scorch shot since the pushback is invaluable when it comes to playing control as a pyro

Funny thing is, I remember a friend of mine complaining a while back that pyro shouldn't have the ability to 2-shot a heavy. I never thought valve would actually go through with it.

Remember that update comic that was a shameless plug for Apple?

I sure do.

this update is actually one of the only updates I have been excited for in TF2 in a while. TF2 just needs a major UI overhaul to make it more like dota 2

...

Wait, really?

pyro being a "counter" isn't event he main issue. The main issue is all new maps added to the game use open areas that favor snipers and mobile classes. heavy and pyro are honesyl the most fucked while soldier and demo get to have tons of fun

Nigga, you never used it. Its hard to land a shot and its a very situational gun, its almost ridiculously bad but its better than stock shotgun.

teamfortress.com/macupdate/comic/

back when they made tf2 cross platform they added an apple earbud item that you got for playing on MAC

it really wasn't a shameless plug since it was relevant to what the update was doing, but the comic did have them in an apple store. I don't remember it being particularly offensiive

...

you know how valve can fix leaving ranked matches?

if you abandon, your next three item drops are forefit. this penalty stacks based on each abandon

Well shit.
I thought the blog gun was kinda funny

I miss weapons being tied to achievements.

I'm a britbong, I know fuck all about guns, sorry. What's the proper term for it?

I have used it and allow me to expand on what I meant by it doesn't require aim or positioning,
Shotguns in general are notoriously lenient on shit aiming, if you aim slightly away you can still get a good 60% of the damage, if you're far away then you can still get about 30 from it. Add in the Reserve Shooter gaining a 30% damage boost ontop of that when the opponent is in the air, unable to move and you've got 78 damage (60 + Minicrit) for shit aim, a attack the opponent cannot get out of due to the airblast and the enormous pushback the RS gives pretty much allows you to keep implanting shots.
That's not even including how much it fucks people over when you're trying to rocket jump since the minicrits come from any form of knock up

in TF2 the individual shots are shells and each shell is loaded individually into the shotgun, so each shot is a shell and each shell reloaded is an individual shell

This guy should do political ads. Talk about disingenuous manipulation.

He may have exaggerated a bit, but I don't think Crowbcat was trying to be manipulative, just pointing things out.

How do the player stats now compare to the past?

Even pozzed as it currently is, TF2 is the better game.

Something he shouldn't have had in the first place. Reflecting projectiles little to do with area denial and even less to do ambushing, and while pushing people around can help control space, it's a totally defensive method (unless there's a convenient pit to shove someone in). It doesn't compliment the class and only serves to distract from it.
He shouldn't have to. Being able to easily move gear dumbs-down the decision making in building placement and makes playing him even more brain-dead than he already is, while also making aggressive engineering too viable for a class that was meant to be purely defensive.
Until a Soldier and demo bomb-jumps to him and blows him up, or a scout or spy sneaks up to him and shoots/stabs him in the back. Fighting at longer ranges doesn't exclude him from engagements, especially not on better-designed maps that don't feature especially long areas for him to abuse his strengths. There's enough checks and balances in the game to keep him involved.
Funnily enough that's similar to how he played in TFC with his Napalm Grenades and Incendiary Cannon. Even without those items though, Pyro could still provide that area denial through use of his flamethrower. The biggest problem currently however is that the flames are so non-threatening due to their low damage output, damage fall-off, the abundance of ways to douse flames or self-heal to mitigate afterburn damage. Not to mention the maneuverability most classes have over him and how much more they can out-do him in close-range damage. This can be remedied in a few ways without any serious overhaul; some possible options:

when it comes down to it, overwatch has autoaim and many more balance issues than tf2 does and probably ever will since overwatch is a moba

now listen here fucker there are a lot of reasons to call engie brain dead, but being able to move buildings is not one of them. engie used to be fucking useless except for sit on point. now a clever engie can move gear up with his team providing some much needed support on the front lines at risk to himself and his equipment

I wouldn't, sure the sentry does most of the heavy lifting but if you just plop a sentry wherever and just sit there like a retard without checking for spies that sentry won't last long.

Pyro was cool after the nerfs they did way back when. Introducing the degreaser and flare gun really made it fun to play, and it did at one point take some skill to pull off (though the fire crit axe was always bullshit), the complainers frankly needed to git gud. Then just when I was really having fun with the degreaser they add stunblast…when you airblast the enemy can't move while in midair, and for a second can't even attack. That made the degreaser combos really easy to do and also complete bullshit. At that point, though, I already had my strange degreaser with parts, so I just stopped doing combos and started using it as a regular flamethrower. People who don't play Pyro say the 10% less damage didn't really matter, but it actually does matter a lot as a short-range continuous fire weapon where people will try to melee or frag you. I still did like the degreaser because you could flame one person, finish them off or dodge around them, and take potshots at other enemies in the distance quickly, without missing your chance. Even without the combos, because I didn't feel right doing them anymore, it was a cool if challenging weapon. I got a lot better at strafing. Then Tough Break changed it into a completely different weapon by substituting the damage penalty (which was good) for the airblast penalty (which just makes it more ezmode for spoiled, talentless soldier hacks), and makes you OP at full damage + speedswap for maximum cheesy combos for talentless pyro hacks with greatly diminished ability to actually support the team by putting out fires.

Direct Hit is great, I use it when I soldier and always enjoy the salty tears of Black Box faggots complaining about noskill it's not a real rocket launcher when they can't aim and need splash-heals. It's a real bitch to go up against as pyro when the enemy can aim, but it just feels sweeter when you deflect it in their face or rocket-jump off it and fry them.

Of course, I don't play competitive at all because every comp league eschews fun or intended play for maximum cheese and autistic repetition of the most efficient moves, I'm just talking about pub crawling. Everyone looks down on pubs, but a lot of teams in or training to be in comp will go all get on one side in a pub to stomp a while and build morale or whatever. Being opposed to them is fun as fuck because you already get that one kill or assist going up against three guys way better than you individually, because they get overconfident and careless. Wouldn't be worth doing with a backburner, but with a degreaser it makes you feel smug as fuck.

But anyways, when they turned degreaser into a demi-backburner and I was already using it as a normal flamer + potshots, it just got too discouraging, because I was actually using the airblast just to get distance and put people out, like a team player, not cheap combos. Too many bad decisions in a row on updates totally killed that, and also the underlying changes they made to the base game make it feel like every other shooter instead of TF2. Haven't played for months, and I was really into it for a while. If only 8ch and /tf2/ had come five years earlier.

Gun Mettle was shit. I enjoyed playing it, but it was shit because of the skins. I admit there was this one very cool skin I got for the grenade launcher which I'll use on trade servers once in a while, but I already have my stranges and skins are comparatively terrible. The contracts, though, were a lot of fun. I wish I could just play contracts, all the time, without paying or getting skins. Maybe if you finish a contract, it gives you a random weapon which could be genuine or strange at some really low chance, but instead of all the chat spam, it could just say you found that item.

Or, 500 contracts complete gives you a completely random non-strange hat. Hats were always fun.

...

I've played engie enough to appreciate how important placement is. It's not just knowing the map, it's knowing how other engies play so you can choose a second-best location the other team won't be prepared to take out while you're building the nest. That's one of the more boring but useful roles a pyro can play, nest defense. It sucks because you know if the other team knows what they're doing and rushes soldiers (or worse, demos) and a few spies at the same time, you're pretty much forced to cycle between herding frag classes away and running back to flame spies, save engi, and homewreck sappers. The only "right" way to do it is to airblast projectiles while pegging the frag classes with flares and stick close to not give the spies a window to kill engi or delay the turret with sappers. However, that's basically impossible with more than five or so frags/spies. I've had cause to body-block rocket spam I couldn't airblast all of just to give engi time to rebuild.

Naturally, you will never find a pub where more than one person is protecting engi nests, so it's always just me and engis…maybe a particularly good medic.

No shit. Should we complain next about Medic, Spy, and Sniper not being useful in direct combat?
There's nothing clever about doddling up to the frontlines while your team is pushing and plopping down a level 3 sentry that's up within seconds. It was clever when engineers exposed themselves to build on the frontlines during pushes or calm moments to entrench their team's position. A team's push shouldn't have an engineer tailing behind them, the engineer is meant to hold their position (forward spawns, objective points, etc) so that enemies can't push your team back. Being able to freely move nests without the need to rebuild or use more resources makes that aggressive play far too rewarding and makes pushes too one-sided with little effort if your team has a competent engineer (even better if a medic ubers him).

Axtinguisher's been back to dealing full crits from any angle since Gun Mettle.

It's actually a very effective means of trapping and controlling enemy movement which is key when engaging in close-range combat and ambushing.

Engineer wasn't a pure defense class, even before hauling one of his many uses was securing locations close to enemy objectives on attack/defense and payload maps and building teleporters there so his team could make a more aggressive push. While hauling introduced the means for daring engineers to make pull off some pretty devastating sentry placements.

Hauling is also important in defense as well, since naturally you will want to change the position of your sentry placement as to throw off enemies who would otherwise be prepared for it in subsequent attacks. Having to rebuild it from scratch would be too risky an endeavour otherwise.

yeah okay m8.

Demoman, Heavy and Engineer are defense classes m8. Scout, Soldier and Pyro are attack.

It doesn't work out that way in practice but that's how they are on the character select screen.

So you've never played the game, kek

Scout/Soldier/Pyro make up offense, Heavy/Demo/Engi make up defense, Medic/Sniper/Spy make up support last I recall.

too bad it has the slow switch speed

valve really needs to sit down and have an update dedicated to melee rebalances

really these are more suggestions at this point.

it really is more of a gradient between power and support with some overlap between classes. the specifics of this list are debatable, but the point is engie is a support class more than a power class, but that does not mean engie is explicitly defense.

Soldier
Heavy
Demo
Scout
Pyro
Sniper
Spy
Engie
Medic

We need a giant meteor right now.

It was always a suggestion, TF2 was made more with those disgusting neurotypicals in mind user, you know people who value things like entertainment, balance and gameplay over things like being limited to only repeat the same exact things over and over or else be completely useless.

Engi is explicitly defense, btw, as in the actual definition of that word, Valve states that engi is defense. Engi is also the least suited to offense. Defending a newly captured area is still defense. Technically, controlling a new zone by building a nest near enemy players is also still defense. Engi can go offense with shotgun and mini (to be massive faggot), but Engi is still one of the most role-filling classes.

Also, pyro can situationally exceed soldier/heavy/demo in terms of killing power, sometimes even for prolonged periods, but is way more likely to get fucked while doing so.

Gun Mettle made the Axtinguisher literally useless because you can do more than 131 damage with the flamethrower in the time it takes to pull out the Axtinguisher.

Valve really fist-fucked Pyro to death as soon as Meet The made him a le epic maymay
I swear it had to be some of the new interns who never even played the game, or any game, or were just diversity hires.

That shit has been in the works for ages. If Valve really cared they would have released it before Overwatch came out, but those cunts are way too lazy for something like that.

That would require Valve do work that isn't buttfuck retarded, I remember there was some comp assclown by the name of b4nny they worked with for the recent balance patch and he had no idea what the fuck Valve was smoking with all but one or two of the balance changes made.

Yeah it's definitely true that each character's grouping is more of a suggestion of what they're supposed to do rather than what they actually do, like Demo making a better offense class than the actual offense classes despite his intended area-denial purpose. It'd help a lot if there were actual fucking tutorials for each class instead of the lazy and very basic weapons-explanations present for only four classes, most people don't get that Heavy's better as a guard than a pusher if there's no Medic present.

WoW finally got the WoW killer. It's called Warlords of Dreanor. That shit was so bad that it made Mists of Pandaria look like a good expansion because it at least added shit and didn't take out as much features as Dreanor or drop the subscription numbers to the point where not even Blizzard wanted to tell the audience what it was. The last report was fewer than 3 or 5 million.

...

wait did they undo the stick dmg nerf?

Stickies got their damage back because it fucked with sentry destruction. It took like 4 stickies to blow up a sentry, and you couldn't wait the forever for them to get their full damage because any competent engie would just shoot them off. Be satisfied with the severe radius nerf.

Or if there is. Because Heavy is slow, even with melee gimmicks. Anyone who can't figure out that Heavy is for defense by the run speed is probably also dumb enough to call $7.50 a "starvation wage" unironically. The problem here is not Valve, but retards.

They could have just given the sticky bonus damage vs buildings back up to original amount. I mean fuck it's not like they have no bonus damage against buildings weapons, either, it's completely fucking obvious to do and anyone who's played TF2 at all should have thought of it the minute they encountered this issue.

Also, airfrags aren't even that bad, you just have to remember to actually look around and not just at the ground all the time.

Where have you been user it wasn't even a week within the nerf that they reverted it.

did you get new friends?

But that's not what happens at all. 3 stickies where more than enough and he can drop 5 or more while the engy is trying to take them down.
Damn things have a very small hitbox and take a far amount of shots to be destroyed anyway.

And that wasn't even how they were being used, Demos just backpedal and drop stickies on their feet. You chase them, they blow up beneath you. You don't chase them, you forfeit the fight. And then they chase you and throw them by leading, giving you a milisecond to "dodge" them but still taking a truckload of damage.
This was always the worst part of Demos, that Stickys, a gun designed for ambush and defense, was used primarly in an offensive way. As if the insta-death grenades weren't enough already.

Riddle me this, though. In most games the design follows a very simple formula: the more damage a class deals, the weaker it is. This is where the glass cannon term comes from anyway, you give excessive damage to a single character but you make up for it with low HP. And for a team-based game, this works since it forces those classes to work with their team, to use their protection and their support to keep you alive so you can dish your full potential in damage.

Then why the fuck does the Soldier and the Demo have the second and third highest health pool in the game? And are even faster than Scouts on top of that?
This makes absolutely no sense! It would be like giving Rogues in your average MMO the armor and HP of a tank and a teleportation ability, literally naruto-tier game design.

Anyway, Soldier is very easy to fix. Just make all of his bazookas only have a single rocket loaded on them (maybe with the exception of the Beggars Bazooka). There, burst damage is still present but it's not spammable, mobility is still there but it can't be exploited with the damage at the same time.

Nippon version of TF2 ANA edition
Overwatch sgcafe.com/2016/07/check-japanese-version-overwatchs-newest-hero-ana/

Wrong thread?

The sticky launcher was designed to be a versatile weapon. Robin Walker, developer of Team Fortress 2 said it himself here: teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2253

"This is because it's generally a dual purpose weapon: used offensively like a rocket launcher, and defensively to create traps."

Overwatch has some things similar to tf2, but doesn't pick up on anything that has made single FPSes be played for decades. No content creation, god-awful movement, very little community interaction besides adding numbers to the player pool.
The entire game stinks of corporate blizzard sterilization to make the next big Assfaggot Esport.
For tf2 having a slapped together cosmetic style, questionable balancing, and fucked-up development goals in-mind; it still has the benefit of not being built from the ground up to be as stale and samey as possible. It will probably outlive Overwatch for this reason

Are you retarded? You'd kill every option for mobility beyond the basic rocketjump, stuff like pogo jumping and the like are the only ways a good soldier can differentiate himself from a bad one.
You want to make a class beaindead to accomodate other brain dead classes? Instead, solly rockets should be slower across the board so that the solly is forced to actually think.

In fact elaborating on this, there are tons of creative ways to "fix" solly, for example, what if he started out with an empty clip and he could reload either high knockback low damage rockets or low knockback high damage ones, he'd have to plan in advance when and how much to rocketjump

Or you could cut Soldier's HP down to 175 or even 150. Reduce self damage a tad to compensate.

Not only that, but Valve removed valve pub servers where quite a large portion of the playerbase played and expected community servers to pick up the slack (ignoring the fact that Valve pubs killed community servers).

It's clear they're incompetent and/or don't care, because they forced a lot of graphics options, locked the viewmodel FoV to a cancerous 54 and borked the already shaky balance by making scout even stronger than he already is. Scout is pretty strong in a regular server with random spread, but with fixed spread scout is the absolute king of hitscan. Now he gets the option of a pocket medic, and medics just need to latch onto a scout to escape a bombing run.

Guys, I just realized "valve" is "slave" backwards!

Overwatch is just a straight TF2 clone with some ASSFAGGOTS sprinkled over the top of it. I can't comprehend why people like trash like TF2 or ASSFAGGOTS to begin with, let alone a combination of the two.

It's like putting piss and shit in a blender and thinking what results is somehow superior to the ingredients.

That's all fair and good but it has 8 stickies loaded in. You mind explaining why it doesn't deal half the damage a rocket does, then?

Tell that to CoD. Or any mainstream shooter, really.

Considering how their matchmaking is going and how competitive is being handled… I wouldn't have such hopes.

You can reload during your jump and still pogo stick, though.

Or this, really. Doesn't make sense that the burst damage class has more HP than many others. Self damage at half it's current value and you're set to go.

If you classify something as ASSFAGGOTS just because it has abilities that go on cooldown, there's a gigantic list of games that fit that category too, from KOTOR to Need for Speed Carbon and even most RTS games.

If you instead classify ASSFAGGOTS based on non-controlled minions that run through lanes for you to farm, gold and XP defining the progress of a match, unlocking abilities with XP, buying items with Gold that give you stat bonus, laning phase, ganking phase and the destruction of a single building in your enemy base as your main objectic…
Then not only is the list very much narrowed down, Overwatch doesn't even fit in at all, fancy that.

The max damage that a regular rocket does is 112. The stickybomb launcher does 144 damage at its max.

Rockets do less damage because they're more versatile. And if the soldier did more damage than the demo, then that would affect the demo's role.

The sticky launcher has 8 rounds because of the demoman's role as a high damage dealer. If you were to reduce the amount of his stickies, his offensive capabilities would be limited.

Now that's some real nightmare fuel if you think about the quickiebomb launcher and the 30% or so damage bonus it can get.

Because Overwatch is easier than even CoD, requires less skill aiming and less reflexes too.
It's as casual as it gets.

that's really the point. CoD has many many sequels with lots of expensive DLC and other "mainstream shooters" don't fare well in the realm of long-term survivability, either.

doesn't help that the game has virtually an entire decade of cosmetics and 10+ GBs of garbage, heaped onto their crumbling, barely maintained fork of the Quake 2 engine

fun fact: Half-Life 2's performance has gone to the shitter for modern PCs, all due to the hotfixes and patches specifically made to 'improve the performance' of TF2

So you are telling me that the Quickiebomb launcher gives the Demo one of the most versatile one-hit kills in the game. And he still gets to keep 175 HP?

So you are telling me that stickies actually cause even more damage than rockets while having double the amount loaded? Because they are more "versatile"?
What is this meme? You can use them for movement just like rockets and it doesn't even require proper timing, you can detonate them at any time. You can use them as traps, good luck making traps with rockets. You can even aim to places using your arc that rockets can't hit.
Literally the only thing rockets do that stickies don't is travel in a straight line, but for the range to justify it, the distance and the damage falloff make that point null.
Tell me again how rockets are more "versatile" than stickies?

CoD can afford to re-sell itself every year because it's only competition is itself. They could just make expansions for the current game but a new iteraction makes it easier to drain more money.
TF2 can afford to be as stale as it is and have the shit updates it always had because it's only competition used to be itself only. There really was no other mainstream classbased shooter that stuck around except for Tribes, that wasn't as memetic despite being quite memetic alright.
Now that they have competition, the environment is quite different and even Valve recognizes this or Competitive mode would be released only with Half Life 3.

the new buff for the quicky sticks reduces charge time by 70%, increases damage by 35% at max charge, has them never fizzle out, for the cost of being able to only load 4 instead of eight. Traps can still be 8, it still arms faster, and it can still destroy other sticks. It's base damage is 15% lower though.
It's kinda bullshit.

Rockets are more versatile since they deal less damage to the player and are fire and forget. They also have greater range.

A Soldier can afford to rocket jump in situations that a Demoman can't since rocket jumping does less damage than sticky jumping and can be executed more easily.

Tribes committed Sudoku when the developers weighted it down with too many micro transactions before abandoning it for that sweet ASSFAGGOT dosh.

Even then, once the novelty of FAST wore off, the game was pretty bland and unbalanced.

I don't know how well Valve will react to competition. At least, not modern Valve- they're too complacent and the company's internals are an absolute mess. There's no hierarchy and their company is dominated by cliquishness.

They also deal less damage to the enemy. That's not very versatile.
Stickies are braindead easy to use and considering the treatment they get (contact-based grenades) they aren't that far from fire and forget. You fire them and hold RClick while your gun prepares the next one.
At the point where you can't reach someone with a sticky (and charged stickies go FAR) the damage falloff makes your rockets a nuisance at best. Nobody "snipes" with rockets from farther away than you could shoot stickies.

I get the rocket jump argument, barely since the difference isn't that massive anyway, but it still doesn't justify the excessive damage AND loaded grenades. Or either of those classes having as much HP.

I've seen a few videos. Not my kind of autism for the long run but it sure looked fun, especially the grappling hook (unless that was the remake).
The design for the classes didn't seem to differentiate them between each other besides some dudes looking like they were bigger than other dudes.

Serious competition for TF2 is sorely needed so they get their head out of their ass and either shut it down or actually improve it.
I get that Pharah's a very simplified Soldier with rocketjumping being a single button and no self damage but her design is interesting. She get's 200 HP, the average for other classes and her rockets deal 120 on direct hits, 80 on splash (according to distance). She's best used to flank and strike from behind since she's quite vulnerable to hitscan weaponry and her rockets never being instant kills even on short range gives her oponents time to react and do something while also rewarding actually hitting someone, not just the ground nearby.
She may be mechanically simpler than the Soldier, but she's much more well designed IMO.

A person can still shoot rockets at long range and do large damage, by firing rockets while jumping and keeping up with them the falloff doesn't appear does it?

No, it's a sign that the industry lacks competition. Evidenced by the fact that it's unable to produce anything other than soulless corporate garbage.

For starters, airshotting with rockets is a much more practical endeavor than airbursting with stickies.

Rockets have a wider variety of movement tricks, since they do less damage to yourself and instantly explode on contact with the ground. Your movement options are further augmented if you were to equip the gunboats. You don't get such options with the stickybomb launcher, unless you're using the Stickybomb Jumper.

Rockets give you an extremely wide range of control in jumping. Although the sticky launcher can give you more distance.

You can even change which part of the screen rockets fly out of (when you use the original).

Instead of predicting and punishing people for bad movement, as you mostly do with the stickies, I feel that rockets can easily control the flow of a match. Mostly because the soldier has way better mobility thanks to his rockets.

You'd be surprised how well the Stock Rocket Launcher and Direct Hit can do stupid shenanigans. They're good at spamming at angles, which is useful if you know where to perch yourself as an enemy team pushes past you.

That's fine. Rockets have more applications than stickies.

It really depends. If I have a height advantage on mid at Gullywash, and they're trying to push in from the sides, I can still squeeze in some easy damage even though I'll be hitting around 50-60.

If there was a cluster of slow moving players, I'd be able to damage them both thanks to splash damage.

Not a lot of classes are able to do that from long ranges.

Now that you mentioned it, I decided to go and see some numbers on my own. And this shit is fascinating…

Yes. Damage Falloff is calculated the moment the projectile hits. So you can fire it from way far ahead, rocketjump near the target and it will do as much damage as if you shot it from there. For some reason.
But more importantly, it doesn't matter at all to destroy Engy buildings, you'll always do 90 damage, regardless of distance. Wew!

But it gets more interesting when you start to compare the Rocket Launcher with the StickyBomb Launcher.
Not only does the SBL cause more damage (120 versus 90), it has exactly the same radius of effect, but less damage falloff based on distance.
And while the first round takes longer than the rocket to reload, the next ones are actually faster. Loading 4 rounds in the SBL is faster than loading 4 rounds on the rocket launcher!
And guess what: it fires faster as well! With double the amount of available ammo to fire!

Shit gets even more morbid when you get into the whole "dodge the stickies" thing as well.
They can be detonated after just 0.7 seconds. The best human reaction is about 0.2 seconds and a bit more.
This gives you less than half a second to actually dodge the stickies, which is actually fairly lenient where it not for the fact that most classes can't move fast enough in half a second to completely dodge them.
Basically, any class that fails to move at more than 6 feet per second will take about full damage from a sticky placed beneath their feet.

This whole meme about dodging stickies is horseshit that Demomains made up to convince you this isn't pure bullshit, you never have enough time to dodge them at all, unless you're maybe the scout. Maybe. But considering how easily they can predict movement and how it's a projectile they can lob and blow up when they feel like, the amount of damage it does and especially being splash damage is the most ridiculous thing ever.

And it beats the Rocket Launcher. For a class with the third highest health pool in the game, no less. And the trade off is "less versatile", as if he ever needed to back away from a fight.

Who the fuck cares? Holy shit.

Hell, I'd point out that the only classes good at long ranges are Sniper and Ambassador Spy. Soldier does better than the other six at similar ranges.

I do agree that Demoman is an overpowered class, but I think you're underselling how important versatility and mobility are.

I think the crux of the problem is that both Soldier and Demoman are just too tanky and Pyro isn't tanky enough. Bump Pyro's health up to 200, reduce both of the explosive classes by 25.

Such a large change would cause every Demo and Soldier main to sperg out eternally and would piss off every bad player in existence, though. Remember the rage at the Backburner when it increased Pyro's health?

And juggling with stickies lets you land them right on top of the next one, if you even need 2 not to mention it's easier and more reliable than airshotting.

Let's be honest here, you either rocketjump on top of people with a Markets Gardender or you do it on top of a healing kit. Damage is hardly a metric except for starting the jump since you'll heal yourself before doing anything else.
And in 80% or more of the cases, a single jump is more than enough.

They can't do area denial as well as either the grenades or stickies do. Demo has 2 guns to actually control the flow of a match, the soldier has one that is half used to position himself and the other half to hit people.

And so's the stock grenade launcher, a weapon the demo also has. And if we are talking camping, so's any scattergun or the Spy.

Rocket's can't be applied over a wall unless you expose yourself unlike stickies. You can't drop rockets on a point to detonate it when it's being taken, with the exception of the Beggar's Bazooka, you can't fire more than one rocket to jump ever further on a single jump. Stickies juggle far better than rockets as well.

If there are bad players, you can do a lot of things.
Which is why they don't stay at those ranges. They move forward as fast as possible to stop that from happening or in the case of engineers, set up buildings in a way you need to go near to even have LOS to them. Even heavies hugging payloads will use them as cover to avoid rocketfire.

I'm not. I'm even bitching about it. They have mobility AND health AND burst damage. Most classes only have 1 or two of those and not even as good.
The Soldier has the superior mobility but that's still no excuse for the abuse that the stickybomb is, especially for a secondary weapon designed for defense.

...

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What if they completely redid the pyro and how afterburn works

They fucking ruined carrot with his penis out, man, it's official OW is the new Undertale. And the skeleton guy is a hell of a meximerican.

Team Pyro is gay!

That's actually a pretty great solution and makes the flamethrower much more interesting. Of course, you'd still need to rework it's projectiles since people avoid that shit very easily but it's still much better than giving crits or straight up damage modifiers.

Doesn't solve his terrible lack of mobility and doesn't give him any survivability option but it's still a good change.

proof that potatoes programmed source engine

They definitely need to make afterburn actually useful but that idea just doesn't make sense. If you put enough stacks on someone you could just kill them with direct damage. They had the right idea with the "direct fire damage reduces healing by 25%" thing but didn't nearly go far enough.

If they want Pyro to have a role in the team, then they should go all the way and make afterburn block medic beams.

Someone attacking a labyrinth wall face down, then hurting themselves in the process, then next turn playing that card fucks people up quite a bit

Why is it that the community knows how to do updates for the game, but Valve doesn't?

I guess it's harmless enough, which is more than I can say about most of Valve's updates

Scorch shot jumping

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You asked for a solution
You got a solution.
Either that or learn to bunnyhop in tf2.

woah does this shit have vehicles?

Absolute shit

Read IDs.
That "solution" introduces another problem - you suddenly have a much less effective side-arm to fight at mid-ranges with. It doesn't really fix things, especially since the jumping comes at the cost of your health.

They're most likely just props.

Aren't Counterstrike and TF2 pretty different?

nonstock weapons right now have so many different stats defining various positives and negatives that they look like patched up abominations instead of something well designed

even then the stock weapons are getting the fucking stats instead of being braindeadly obvious how to use them

just fucking stand back and rethink the whole idea of a weapon instead of bloating it with "+5% splash damage to blue demoman on fire with loli spray picture" type of bullshit tweaks

dota2 is bleeding into tf2 and i don't like it

You combine both pyro can move faster than a scout as long as you don't deck yourself on a low ceiling.

Scorch shot is shit
it's only use is to annoy snipers or deny scouts with it's somewhat good aoe and instant afterburn

somewhat related, backscratcher is a really underrated weapon, 25% bonus damage (that's 81 damage) means you can two-shot medics and an almost full health demo or pyro and 50% health pack heal bonus means you can live off the maps medkits placement (ex: a small medkit gives you 52 health while a medium one gives you 132 health), of course it comes with the downside of -75% heal rate from medics but who heals pyros anyways
it's also really fucking fun when in medieval mode, being able to going up against demos (king of medieval mode) head on

too bad most people prefer to use powerjack for its movement bonus

I more to blame the way valve thinksthat sidegrades should be a weapon with a shit gimmick instead of a weapon that slightly changes the playstyle

Give the pyro the speed of a medic / slightly slower scout
also make this shit viable
how the fuck a flare does the almost same damage as a rocket while having a small boost of jump compared to it

I love that rake.

I'm sure Valve will break its legs and put it in a wheelchair forever when they do the pyro war update, just like they did to all the other demoknight and pyro weapons I liked.

Fuck, please no that fucking rake is the only reason i go back to play pyro (other than to piss-off sollyfags or demospams)
Just please, please stay away from the green rake, that beaut is just perfect the way she is

It's maps + items leading to potentially being included in-game

no but it does have a payload cart that acts as a tank as well as EXPLOSIVE BARRELS

Oh please, that's just the excuse they came up with to pretend they actually care about other classes. "Wow, we gave Pyro the ability to flarejump! Such skill, almost like a Soldier now! Imagine all the places you can go!"
Protip: none. A scout double jumping reachs higher than you ever will with the flare jump. And that nigger has a ton of weapons to jump even higher if he wants.

Most of the places that matter you can't reach with that jump. At best you can hop on top of some geometry that doesn't give you any advantage whatsoevever. Powerjack is better for movement than the flarejump, that's how bad that thing is.

The only use of Scorch Shot is that you don't need to even aim it, just land it somewhere near the snipers to piss them off. And if you can hit people directly, it bounces off to someone else, but that's it. It's a gun to fuck with someone else's aim, nothing else.

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Being as fast as a scout is a big fucking deal when you aren't playing shit kill yourself tier Comp Maps

I know that feel. They bought CS:GO and Overwatch. I feel like I am the only person in my country that play TF2. Sadly the Matchmaking update ruine the game for me.

fuck you reddit i liked having win/loss in payload/ad now it is just pub bullshit

HOL UP

what?

that means that the RED will always be doomed to lose, and reddit may be fucking retarded but that is just plain braindead

Dota 2 is also declining because of the terrible meta, lack of trading stuff, lackluster events that were broken and pointless to make, and faggots like SirActionSlacks and Baumi trying to make it in the scene. It's also stupid how it's taking forever to release one character (Pit Lord never :( ).

Also, LoL is still popular despite people are slowly getting fed up with Riot's shit (sjw shit like Gay as fuck Taric, horrible queues, a meta worse than dota's, etc.), and isn't dying anytime soon (show a new skin, and people will stop bitching about the bullshit meta or ruined champions like Twitch and Ryze.

At the cost of your own health, compared to the scout? At the cost of not constantly seeing where he is while he keeps that advantage?
When you have to keep switching between primary and secondary to fight while the scout keeps his speed while using his primary?
Losing your shotgun, the weapon you actually use to kill Scouts?
Do you even think about these things seriously before you post them, or do these scenarios that only happen inside your head suffice as "evidence" that this totally would work?

Wait, what? How does the RED team win now? How can they win at all with no timer? Push the payload back to the start?

Those games WILL die but not in the way people expect them to. CoD is pretty much the same shit and always featured more or less the same problems and yet it remained alive for all these years despite being the flaming turd it is.
No matter how bad it is, some people like how bad it actually is. So when the new CoD came out and tried something different, they hated it.

A game either slowly loses players because it's always the same thing throughout the years (and it's a very slow rate since a lot of people like this) or it tries something new and either becomes actually good or dies off very fast.

Those 2 will have a steady decay in the player base for many years until the company decides to try something new to rein in old players and new ones and either makes the game good and\or kills their current playerbase.

Or, you know… A new game in the same genre comes out that's actually a lot better than the crap they've put out and sustained and they scramble to make something somewhat similar to the new game, fail and die off. :^)

Until the Ruskies and BRs either die out or attain a higher standard of living, Dota will live on. It's always had a shitty metagame and the events didn't even start until Valve bought out Icefrog.

are you fucking with me
you have to be fucking with me

I've heard some people saying that "playing Overwatch just makes you want to play TF2 again". And I got the exact opposite feeling from it.

The matchmaking is atrocious and the wait times are the lesser issue here.
Whenever a match ends, everyone has to disconect and go back to the queue, looking for a new server.
Autobalance is NOT a feature there at all, enjoy your unbalanced teams.
Even better, since people can leave with no penalties, as soon as a team starts to lose, expect leavers. Fortunnaly they decided to allow people to join servers with available slots but guess what? You'll always be joining an unskilled team. That's why the slot is available, because skilled players couldn't take anymore of their team.

Now compare this with Overwatch, where at the end of a match, everyone stays in the server and either switch sides between attackers\defenders or just change the map to something else. And when the map changes, it autobalances the teams so the players don't even notice it. And the moment someone leaves, another player looking for a game is automatically picked to replace him and even gets an XP bonus for mid-joining a game.
The only time you are kicked to the search queue again is if a lot of people leave the server but otherwise it needs not stop there and you can play against the same people again.

The community of TF2 has a bit of "console mentality" and not necessarily the bad kind. They expect to start the game, pick a server and start playing. They don't care about teams or objectives, those are arbitrary as fuck and someone else will eventually care about it, so why bother? And why care about how many points your team has? You'll be autobalanced to the oposing one in a bit and all the work you did will count against you, after all.

So picking this community and putting them through a matchmaking system that expects them to care about the team, teamwork, objectives, your team score instead of just your own and to stick to a server from beginning to the end… It won't work. They don't like this, they hate playing like this. Community servers are having a reflux of people that couldn't care less about a stupid badge and just want to play the damn game.
I can't even imagine how Competitive must be like, but I'll wager it's even worse with all the Competitive autism and just 4 classes being played all day long anyway.

Valve tried to make TF2 into Overwatch but it failed. Because their community hates playing like that. They are now stuck with the minority of players they catered to along all these years and there's nothing they can change about it that won't kill their current playerbase.
The only thing Valve can do is watch Blizzard from afar and chew their hat, seeing what a better TF2 could have made them in cash.

Ruskies and BRs don't spend money on it and they don't sustain the game. All they do is inflate the player numbers which is usefull sometimes.
If they have no money to even cover server costs, do you think it's gonna stay alive?
If Ruskies and BRs are the only players or at least the majority you'll find, do you think the players with actual money to spend will stick around?

They also added votekick to casual. They are getting there but currently its as if Valve doesnt know what the fuck they are doing

He means the stopwatch, and they didnt remove it, they made it so that it doesnt stop the game when it runs out Which is shit becuase now you essentially have to play through a game you already lost

So far, yes. Look at any Dota forum on the internet and enjoy an eternal litany of complaints about Russians ruining the game. Valve went so far as to create a single server just for them and they STILL flood every other group.

Dota is unique in that it's hugely addictive and a cultural touchstone for much of Eastern Europe. You CAN get blood from that stone.

Do you have an proof? I can't believe Valve could be THAT fucking retarded.

I thought that was comp only but BLU has infinite time at first then RED has to do it in less time or RED wins.
makes sense for comp really, stop sperging before you know the CONTEXT

or BLU wins.

No, it doesn't make any sense at all either. You'll always have a base time limit in every map for the first team and the second one gets the time the first team took instead of the base time.
Otherwise, theoretically, games could last forever as long as the first stage doesn't end.

This just makes Payload maps into the Designated DeathMatch maps, so it's Hightower all over again in all of those maps.

was hightower even fixed?

Is overwatch really as shallow as Holla Forumsirgins make it out to be?
TF2 has turned to shit without modded servers, and its only competition is adored by normalfags for reasons that shoot up a redflag.

You had an Open Beta to try it for yourself and there are currently a fuckload of videos showing gameplay that you can easily make your own opinion.

The short answer is: no.
The long answer is: if you're not a Soldier or Demo main in TF2, you'll like Overwatch.

I just picked it up yesterday, mostly because, even though it's much more expensive, I don't have to deal with the microtransactions bullshit that Valve pulls with TF2. I like it. It's a little frustrating because I can't gauge my own progress because one person can't carry a whole team. If our team is losing, I can't tell if it's because I'm doing shit or if everyone else is. If we're winning, I can't tell if it's because I'm doing well or if everyone else is. But that said, it's still quite a bit of fun. I like that there are more classes than in TF, so teams end up a lot more varied. There are more than one hero that can fulfill the same role, and each plays differently, so even if you're shit at once character, you can still do well in the same role with another character.
I'd really like it if there were more people that talked in the game. I've had a couple games were people chatted a little over voice and they went really well. I don't have the balls or peace to do it myself, but the game's main problem (at least, at the rank I'm at now) is that there's no community, just a bunch of people looking for PUGs.
Overall, I'm still happy with the two days I've played so far. If I get nothing else, I'll get my money's worth.

that rake is the only reason for me to still be playing this game

I didn't know the winraket was so popular.
pls name my strange backscratcher

TF2 is played by bronies and Furries.
Overmeme is played by the most normal of normalfags.

Comp is terrible. The lack of weapon whitelists and class limits just turns the game into "who can out cheese the other team". Add on the fact that there aren't placement matches and you have games that turn into steamrolls the majority of the time because the enemy team has functioning brains while your team consists of a spy, a sniper and a heavy medic combo that rushes into mid and dies.

This is quite literal chimping out.

Aaaaaahhhhh

Sometimes I wonder if TF2fags have even played the game in eons. I left TF2 ages ago due to all the bullshit and the fact that 90% of the servers were 24/7 2fort or some shit (more like 100% because aussies get shitall servers for any game).

People seriously say that Overwatch is casual shit because of how broken the projectile hitboxes are (which thank fuck are getting fixed in the next update), but they don't realise that TF2 uses FUCKING AABBs for projectile detection.

Look at this shit.

They say people at valve can work on whatever they want.

And that's probably true to an extent the problem is when you're coding and the choice is between a shitty card system for steam that'll be done in a month or 5 years working on a game that may or may not be panned it's obvious what a jaded developer would choose.

If Valve had more new blood eager to make names for themselves we'd see more games out of them but they rarely take on new people so it's just a group of jaded fucks putting in the least effort for a fat payout funded by their digital distribution monopoly.

I don't like this because he talks about classes as if they're set in stone. Should certain classes really ONLY be played in certain circumstances? What I liked about TF2's unlocks was the idea that you could play any class at any time, but then give them different equipment based on the situation.

Some of the current items get it right in completely changing how you play, the main problem right now is that a lot of the others are redundant or outright useless. The thing that annoys me most about TF2 overall is how Valve has spent so much time sucking esports cock and fixing something that wasn't broken (quickplay/server browser) when all they had to do was brainstorm new weapons that give players interesting gameplay options beyond boring stat boosts like "do you want accuracy or damage resistance"

You don't need to carry a team to see how well you are doing, "carrying a team" is a stupid concept to begin with since it just means teamwork counts for jack shit in the game.

You usually see your relevant stats to see how you are doing and the medals are a neat way to compare them. For instance, you are playing Tracer, you're main concern is causing as much damage as possible. You don't even need kills, just damage. So look over your "Damage Done" stat (press TAB to see it in the bottom corner) and you can see how much you've done and a medal according to the rest of your team. You get Gold, that means you did more damage than anyone else (or are tied for first place).
If you are playing Widow\Hanzo, that's a sniper. You don't want damage, you want kills. You play a healer, you look at Healing done. You play tanks, you look at Objective Time.

There are other more subtle metrics though that you learn as you play the game.
For instance, if you are playing Widowmaker and there are Torbjorns or Pharahs on the other team, it's your job to kill them. If your team keeps dying over and over to them, you aren't doing your job well.

Expected as much. When winning is the only thing that matters, people will do everything, even the most unfun shit just to get a victory screen.
And then they say Overwatch isn't the better game!

A cylinder collision box would avoid all of that shit and it's even easier to test for collision with it. Just see the Z coordinate and then distance to the center being smaller than the diameter. You can even be extra lazy and say that a certain Z-interval means it's an headshot.
I have no fucking idea why they went with those shit collision boxes.

You could grab whatever equipment you wanted for the Scout, you still couldn't take on a Sentry's nest. You could grab whatever equipment you wanted for Soldier, you were still an highly mobile and hardy burst damage character.

The only thing that ever changed with loadouts was Demoman suddendly being an Offensive Melee character or the Sniper changing to medium range with the Huntsman.

how about this
direct fire damage blocks healing
x stacks of afterburn block healing by x amount
done

And good luck with that now. Now all you can get out of picking a shield is being a Useless Cockroach character instead of anything capable of getting a medic pick or helping your team.

No.

Every Hightower map is a bullshit Deathmatch server. If you find a server that does rotations, pray it doesn't end up on Hightower, otherwise it'll be on that map for hours.

I want valve to rebalance tf2 quite badly. Just imagine if every class was actually worth playing
Great idea by the way

overwatch gay
tf2 gay
jo gay haha

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Why does he only have one tit?

Soldier looks like a gay 70s pornstar

No fuck i posted this as i read the comic and it's the CEO of mann co who looks like a 70s gay pornstar

Okay this got me into reading tf2 comics, and i'm liking them a lot despite that shilling part. implying i'm a subhuman who bases their opinion on others instead of facts, but that is indeed a red flag on the writer's professionalism

they're pretty good, but the schedule is almost as bad as Berserk

Their schedule is a joke and the punchline is that they promised bimonthly updates initially.