So, what's the deal with CalArts and what do they have to do with CN having a bunch of cartoons with really garbage art?

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10 Star posts, user. Worth noting that nearly every instance where a woman was given control of a large company, shit got significantly worse in measurable ways. See Sony and Yahoo and Facebook, for good examples.

Was hoping someone would post this. Unfortunately, it's not surprising what has happened to many colleges, and it's something we should have seen coming from the wisdom of a centuries old quote: "Those who can't do, teach."

It's easier to get a job as a professor than it is to get substantial work in your field of study. The basic meritocracy makes it so only the truly hardworking, exceptional, talented, and lucky leave college and get a good career in their field. With the animation industry it's even worse, as there is less demand, less pay, and most networks are highly wary of signing on for any new shows, and anyone who has got a job is staying employed working on any and every show they can.

So who do you have left as the faculty for these colleges and universities? The shitters who were too fucking awful to get jobs working on actual cartoons. The burnouts and failures who decided instead of pursuing their career that they'd just go back to college for a few years and get a teaching degree. These people are the Andrew Dobsons of the animation industry, except now they are teaching classes where they are telling students that life-drawing is stupid and that style over substance and fundamentals is the way to go. Why develop a sense for palette and composition and color theory when you can just use gradients and the paint bucket tool? Why learn anatomy when you can just do noodle arms? Why learn to write engaging and fun stories when you can just talk about feelings and lesbians?

Now extrapolate this out to nearly every major and department and you start to understand how academia went to shit. Generation after generation of the bottom-tier faggots seeping back into the classroom to use teaching as revenge for their mediocrity. If they hated doing something when they were in class a couple years ago, now it's not mandatory in the classes they teacher, and this leads to further degradation which will ensure an even worse generation of professors takes up the mantle after them.

So is the core problem that it's so time consuming and/or expensive to produce a show, so that people can't just do their own startup making quality stuff? Or is the problem that the networks have a tight grip on distribution and don't care to buy/run anything an outside source?

Looking at things as someone from the tech industry, a big company's stagnation and bad management is often not so hard to take advantage of with a startup that eventually displaces them. I take it that's not the case for animation?

CN just got cheap, they legit think producing 22 minute episodes of any show is "expensive" and that's why you see so many newer shows just doing the 11 minute format.

Also fuck Sam Register, he's one of the main reasons why CN has been going down the shitter since 2009.

As I touched on at the end, CN are letting more shorts be shown and some are getting series orders, like that OK KO show that some user keeps bringing up.
Aside from that, Disney has that new DuckTales show, which is actually well done, but not my cup of tea. They have wrapped up Star Wars Rebels, but they're definitely going to milk it and make another series, so I wonder if they'll continue with CGI or try to emulate 2003 Clone Wars.

Genndy and Adult Swim are probably in talks about giving him another show, seeing as Samurai Jack blew Reddit and Memey out of the water with ratings. He also stated on the S5 premiere that he really wanted to keep working on 2D, and that Hotel Transylvania, as much as he enjoyed it, wasn't his true passion and just paid the bills. He also has a film with Sony coming out in either 2018 or 2019 called Genndy Tartakovsky's Can You Imagine?, but that's been delayed a few times and there's literally no news about it apart from it being about the imagination of a little boy. I think it'll get shelved due to Inside Out being so fresh in the mind. Pic related.

Netflix will be interesting to watch. I don't use the service, and I hear there's lots of debt involved, but they keep pumping tens of millions of dollars into random, no name projects and seem to be keen to tap into animation, both for children and for adults, so that's letting some fresh blood into the scene. Young Justice will probably be their big launch into it.

CW has 4 animated projects underway, all tied into their DC superhero shows. Vixen got rereleased as a film, Constantine, Freedom Fighters and The Ray are expected to be out in the next 12 months, so they're also trying to delve into that as well.

WB churns out LOTS of new animated movies every year, but they're getting stale. Scooby-Doo ones are all I care about anymore, and even those are getting a bit dull.

FX (now I think it's FXX) has Archer, which is wrapping after another couple of seasons, so I'd be watching out for Adam Reed's next project. He'll probably start that next year or the year after, to try and leech the viewers from Archer onto his new show.

Finally, keep an eye on Bruce Timm. He's been given lots of chances by WB, and keeps getting fucked over. If the aforementioned Netflix deal with DC works out, I have a good feeling he'll be shipped off to the Netflix slave labour camps instead of the WB Animation ones. A new DCAU would be a wise choice from DC to help sell their post-Rebirth launch, as they're trying to go for younger audiences with more simplified characters.

The problem is all the animation targeted to older audiences aren't getting attention, and the shitty made-in-Flash cartoons just have bright lights so they attract younger children en masse.
Be a good goy and dish out some shekels for the good stuff, and if you feel like it, e-mail/normal mail the companies involved and thank them. Oftentimes, animation studios at places like WB are second-class citizens in the office and don't get much love from the executives.

I'm sure someone will get pissy at me, but western animation is a lot more complex than eastern (Japanese) animation. Workers are scarce, teachers are scarce, money is scarce etc. A western cartoon costs a lot more than whatever the flavour of the month anime is. That's because of a few reasons, mostly to do with western cartoons having more frames and being more dynamic than anime. (No, anime is not groriush 24FPS, it's produced in 'threes' and even then lots of times they freeze backgrounds to let someone speak to save money) Even those shitty shows like Adventure Time cost more per episode than most anime.
Due to this cost, it's incredibly hard to do start ups, and you have to sell yourself to a company to fund it, which comes with it's own limitations.

CN has both in-house and acquired shows, but they've really upped the amount of in-house stuff being made. That's why a lot of the shows on CN look the same; they're made in the same studio by the same people.
Distribution is pretty hard as no one wants to take a gamble on new animation when they could keep churning out whatever their biggest seller is 4x more than before.

No one can displace the heavy-weights at the moment. Netflix are trying, but they've not cracked the market yet. It's very hard as with live-action, you can just release it as a online movie/short/whatever and it will stand out somewhat, but with animation, you have to compete against every dropkick on YouTube who made a 10 frame animation with some 2deep4you message, and since you're posting it to YouTube, it's likely you've got no money behind you so it doesn't look as good as it could be and there's no marketing behind you.

Actually, they've moved to the 11 minute format for decades. They're just doing more of it as they can inflate ratings.
11 minute programs are good sometimes, like with the current Justice League Action, but when they try to serialise a show, like Adventure Time became after S3, it really falls lat.

Sam Register is alright. He's a hit and miss kind of guy. He came up with The Looney Tunes Show, but then also created Hi-Hi Puffy Ami Yumi, so he's a mixed bag.

This thread crushed my dreams and convinced me to go to business school.
Thanks Holla Forums!
I will fund my own comics with my lush disposable income instead of doing whatever this is

Thank you for educating this pleb. I had no idea about any of this, literally was at the "don't know what you don't know" level.

Oh, and adding to places that show promise:
-DC are trying to start up their own online content provider. They're starting it up with a live-action Teen Titans adaptation, but they'll surely be putting animation on there. DC is a heavy hitter when it comes to animation.
-Kevin Tsujihara, chairman of WB Entertainment, really likes video games, animation and home movies (DTVs), so he's been trying to inject lot of money into those departments. You may of noticed the Scooby-Doo and DC movies got a slightly better look and feel to them recently.

Most of the animators that Holla Forums loves and you could name of the top of your head never went to CalArts, and most of them didn't even go to an art school.
Just work on a portfolio by doing whatever interests you, maybe do some paid work for references, then just rock up to a studio's front door and show them your work. They will be much more likely to accept you if you show them your work, rather than your diploma.

What's wrong with the guy?

I'd updated that picture a bit ago, I think it was important to include the average wage of a highschool graduate on the off chance that the reader was under the impression that $30,000 was a lot of money. I also made some images lauding self-teaching ones way into an art career that may have been floating around as well.

Note: Bancroft actually did go Calarts but he didn't graduate, this was I think in the late 80s or early 90s when Calarts was around a sixth of what it costs today, too

It's the same for us in computer engineering/programming/cybersecurity. People can graduate unable to write a simple program unaided (literally can't figure out how to do fucking *fizzbuzz*) while I have friends without even a GED to their name who are making $130k salaries from self-teaching themselves how to hack. It's only going to get worse, too.

I'm actually quite happy about the incoming collapse of American post-secondary education because the system is absolutely rotten on the inside, and it's going to deprive the left/SJWs a huge source of their power. Certification programs and online instruction are the way forward, along with internships of course (which will never go out of style, it's where you learn everything beyond the "stop asking retard questions" level).

Holy shit, how? I always assumed the problem with college computer courses was the focus on languages over abstract computing and data structures, but people are actually graduating without being able to do that shit? There's harder shit than that in a High School intro class. I've seen community college computer courses and their tests have shit harder than that. How are people like that getting degrees?

The collapse needs to happen soon.

I agree on all counts, and personally I won't rest until these leftist failure farms disappear into the dustbin of history like they belong.

blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/
Here's a link with a bunch of other links inside discussing that very problem. Mind, these are the people who are going to interviews, so the bad ones will be somewhat over-represented (because the good ones will have been hired), but still. These people have a degree, which means the degree is meaningless. I basically would only trust a degree from MIT without testing their skills on the spot… hell, I might test them even then, just to be SURE. (I've heard a great true story about a guy who took a faked degree and resume into a 1.3mil salaried job managing the root servers for multiple international banks–big ones–and then contracted a company in China for $80k a year to remote in using his password thumb drive and do all the work for him. Lasted at least 2 years before anyone found out, got away with it because revealing it happened would have sunk the server company. Heard it from his replacement, so I actually believe it. Test your new hires, folks.)

Honestly, if you think it's bad on the programming side, you should see how bad it is for cybersecurity. Hoooly shit, are we talking awful.

Well if it's really that bad I could probably get decent job now, so that's an upside. I know java and basic C++, apparently that's enough to put me in the top 98%.

The impending bubble pop is going to be so helpful for everyone.

The only problem is that Java means you are competing for jobs in the language that Pajeet loves the most. H1-B visas are the reason coding jobs pay half of what they ought to. But, it's generally still better pay at 65k+ than many people see.

I need to go move innawoods sooner, rather than later…

What if I learn sequence?

What is going in tech is just bizarre. In my group of friends, only one person didn't go to University, and instead he went to work as an IT guy. In the time rest of us were at Uni, he taught himself and is now working in cyber security making more money than any of us with degrees.
Two that got computer science degrees are just glorified codemonkeys and half of their duties is making sense of outsourced currycode. Meanwhile, girls who graduated in the same year, had jobs at Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft before they finished school and regardless of skill (most of them were mediocre at best).

Only use of Universities is as a form of accreditation for things like engineering, and even then you must know what you are doing. Many programs are hellbent on teaching you borderline useless stuff. In case of my school, many engineering departments were obsessed with MATLab even though most employers look for C++ and python experience.

I tell you anons something that'll make a few of you facepalm, I'm sure most of you know of Sheridan in Ontario Canada I'll drop a few hints of what is going on there and the rest of Canada's animation scene.

This is happening almost everywhere. Animation is being consumed by art school culture.

What is most cancerous is the whole portfolio bullshit they do.
Jesus we need to get our shit together say what you will on Europe or Japan but they still train their animators.

What qualifies as a good portfolio to them though? I've hear most of them just fill it with a bunch of stereotypical 'anything can be art' bullshit, like nude photos and food smeared on walls and shit.

Sheridan ask for an actually good portfolio but the issue is its the type you'd make while in the last few bits of school. Most aspiring students simply can't do that yet.

Then how is anyone getting in, especially the noodle arm SJW fuckers?

A lot of people going into art school have no real interest in art. Good art is so goddamned technical that is practically belongs in the STEM department.. but that's not the kind of art they teach at colleges. See for why: The shitty professors keep dumbing shit down to the point that anyone can get away with smearing shit on their face or rolling around the floor autistically screeching and call it art.

So you get all these talentless fucks who go in for art degrees because they've got this notion in their head that they literally can't do art wrong because "everything is art!" and the schools don't really care, so they let them get away with making literal piles of trash and calling it art.. and then they graduate and go move back in with Mom and Dad, because their college years literally prepared them for a life of being pampered and coddled, instead of responsibility and self-motivation

i dont care if it has a 9fag watermark, that picture is pretty damn well done.

I saved it from here, didn't notice the watermark. Lazy anons like myself and the guy who posted the one I saved, not seeking the unwatermarked original, are the cancer killing Holla Forums's memes I suppose.

Where does one find resources on how to do good art? Obviously not in schools, but are there any sites or youtube channels worth their salt?

Long and short: Practice your goddamned fundamentals. Life drawing, figure drawing, perspective, composition, and so on. Practice that shit a lot. Then practice it some more until it's second nature.

He's asking where to learn how to practice those things.

This, thanks.

There's a board here for drawing tips:
>>>/loomis/

All the artist I know got rejected yet how the hacks get in is beyond me

Did any of the artists you knew have rich parents?

Thanks for the plug. I almost never promote the board myself as I've been busy with my own artistic struggle. However, as the guy that made those "animator's survival kit" and "artists report back" images it's no secret that I hope that not only my board but the many other online communities like it become healthy and self-sufficient alternatives to art schools some day soon.

Many art schools have abandoned any sense of craft, but even if they haven't they've nonetheless done little more for the great majority of their students than leave them in financial ruin with their exorbitant tuition fees.

This guy's youtube channel will teach you as much or more about hand-drawn style animation as much or more than any university setting will.

youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYOBCjdAoAjbKsk4NG7h_WJ9CX7F5zfUe

8ch.net/loomis/hub.html

No

Mystery solved.

The network and primary channel are still called FX. FXX is a sister channel that's headlined by Archer and syndicated reruns of FX/Fox shows.

Worth noting that it'll have a Deadpool cartoon next year, although it'll also be overseen by Donald Glover.

Am I alone in actually liking Chozen?

Is Donald Glover that bad? I remember liking his stand up.

It sounds intriguing, if only because it might shake things up in adult animation. Hopefully they won't use that awful "barely moving cardboard cutouts" animation style that Reed is so fond of.

It looks like he kind of grew an ego over the years, and tried to distance himself from his old silly stuff like this. At least he is not a full blown SJW (yet) based on his Time interview/article:

Thanks! I'll check it out.

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What happened to her left leg's perspective? Did you use two different references?

that picture is beautiful, but it implies samurai jack was cancelled before season 4, which is just wrong

I really doubt it. West has it's own tricks to save budget, especially now when the most of the animation is Flash tweening. Characters rarely break away from their preset iconic poses means you can reuse assets. If anything the marketing eats up the most money sunk into developing a cartoon.

I doubt this if you told me young Justice was more expensive then I'd believe this more.

Did Reed even do much with Chozen? He was just an executive producer, which probably meant he was just making sure FX didn't cancel his mate's show.

Sounds funny, but it's true. There's that much of a shortage on western animations that prices are stupid high.
Lots of anime studios will put the price between $100k and $300k, USD, while Adventure Time is estimated to go between $300k and $500k. Granted, VAs cost a lot in the west, but most animation studios in the west aim for $15-25k a minute.

If they were producing more cartoons and trying to get more people into animation and VA work, prices would drop dramatically. I imagine Tara Strong likes to milk them for shekels, but then the more modest VAs, like Frank Welker, charge peanuts compared to her.

But I don't think any of their shows ran for 11 minutes in the 2000's, in the 90's sure, you had shows like Dexter's Lab, Johnny Bravo and Cow and Chicken that made up their 22 minute format via 7 to 11 minute shorts but in the 2000's it was all 22 minutes.

Dexter and Johnny Bravo ran into the 2000s. Also Ed, Edd & Eddy did that format as did Billy & Mandy.

Holy shit, how so much?

The format died then came back.
It used to be all the rage at Hanna-Barbera, where they'd get a big name show and place it along 2-3 other 11 minute shows that weren't as popular. Kids would sit through all of them for the one they liked, thus boosting ratings and sales for all shows involved.

Rocky and Bullwinkle did that a lot, as did Scooby-Doo and other Hanna-Barbera shows.

Nowadays it's being done as people are getting more rushed in life (because of """higher powers""") and kids are seemingly only capable of watching things in short bursts.

Key reasons are:
-High VA costs
-Low workforce able to do animation
-Less outsourcing to the cheaper Korean/Jap studios (I think this is because of some perceived racism by idiots, not sure why people stopped)

That being said, if you put your mind to it and became an animator (you don't need especially good art skills), you would make a killing in the west. The skills are in demand with the big cartoon studios, and also Hollywood. Advertising is also keen for more animators.

That phrase means different things to different people and I'm curious: what kind of salaries are we talking?

Anime animators are paid dirt.

With the rise of Flash and the death of action cartoons in the West, there's no demand for Korean animation.

Hi hi puffy amiyumi(2004-2006) had three 7 minute segments per episode

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The difference in salary is definitely bigger than it should be but don't bundle japanese Seiyu with lazy western VA.
They do public promotion of their shows, participate in radio talk shows, record radio programs, Blu Ray extras, online extras, etc.
Seiyu actually embrace shows they work on beyond just showing up and saying some bullshit.

A+ posts. The cronyism of CalArts graduates is completely out of control at this point. Pic related from a previous thread on the subject: they've literally taken over Cartoon Network's original programming in the space of a decade by doing this.

What you're saying about the incompetence of executives is new to me, but it would explain why the cycle has been allowed to go on for so long.

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I feel you. My voice isn't half-bad but I have trouble finishing lines strong and have a slight very noticeable to me lisp.

Cronyism is expected in the animation field since there are so few qualified animators out there. It's a really small field, so of course everyone knows each other.

Also, BTW, they didn't "take over". CN literally drove out all of the old guard, leaving them no one to work under.

What's the story there?

This is why I'm going to college to learn computer programming languages… In an electronics career, I'll learn the language in small courses or something,

Sorry, but this is how creative industries work. How much does a Hollywood A-lister get paid compared to a lighting rigger or a CG artist or a sound designer? The talent is paid to be there, the crew are lucky to be working.

The reason, ultimately, is that the crew are replaceable while the talent is unique. The talent is also worth more than the value of their performance alone: by hiring talent that have fanbases of their own who will buy your product because their idol is in it, you'll benefit. But agents know this, so the talent's salary must also include somewhere close to the price you would otherwise have to pay in marketing to attract an equivalent audience. That's their 'star premium'. And given how hit-and-miss marketing can be, A-list talent is generally considered more reliable and hence worth paying if you can afford them.

Yeah, but the thing is the ability to animate also requires large amounts of talent even if you're just a Korean sweatshop animator. That, and no one really gives a shit if celebrity A is doing the voice of a character since none of them sound particularly distinct, and you're not going to see them. No one goes "oh yeah I'll go see that animated TV show because it's go Tara Strong" or "I can't wait to see Show X and hear Kevin Michael Richardson do the same 3 voices again!"

That's true for shit like Vin Diesel in the Iron Giant, not people who are only famous as voice actors. Steve Blum is one of the biggest names in the industry and even his name power doesn't give shows too significant a boost.

Because I'm interested in animation moreso than straight up illustration I basically forego references entirely in personal work like this, but naturally I'm drawing a lot of photographs and through books to try and improve my less-than-stellar results.

Isn't all of that true for western VAs as well, /a/-kun?

It's touched upon here , but there's little more to it.

The new executives that took over CN during Stewart's time really made life miserable for the animators. They were pushing shit like CNREAL and looking for any reason to cancel cartoons. It got so bad that McCracken famously resigned in disgust.

By the time Christina Miller took over in 2014, all of the old guard left CN, leaving a creative vacuum at the company that's currently being filled with inexperienced talent.

Weird, I actually have browsed your site. Small online world.
Which makes this as good a place to say as any: quit apologizing and taking your strips down just because some people get offended by them and whine.

Sure, but that's of very little relevance to their salary in the marketplace. It's the market, user, if some asshole can do the same quality work as you for less then you'll lose out. If there were ten million Michaelangelos alive today, I could get a nice painting on my ceiling done pretty cheap.

Yeah, most western star VAs don't get ultra-high salaries, for exactly that reason: their star premium is low because they have low exposure and name recognition with audiences. They ain't movie stars. There are exceptions (video games where the fans expect the same dude back for the sequel, for instance). Clearly the Japanese audience cares a whole lot, though.

Industry track record is another factor in salary btw, You know exactly what you are buying when you hire a Tara Strong or a Steve Blum. They won't fuck up and they will know how to quickly produce the material you want. You may actually save money by not dragging out the recording process, or get more takes in the same timescale so you can get better results in the edit. It's not a huge factor but it adds some $$$.

Anyway, you can gripe about stars getting paid X for what doesn't seem like X worth of work to you. But unless you believe it's all a cargo cult or nepotism or a money laundering scheme, then a person being paid well means that somewhere along the line they are adding value. If they weren't then casting agents would save a fuckton and hire randos instead. They'd be stupid not to. Not saying people on both sides can't play the game a little and take the other guy for more or less than the 'true' worth of that service in that market - but if they do more fool whoever accepted that deal rather than going elsewhere.

Hey, if all this seems terribly unfair to you, just remember that any of us can start up our own studio with our ideal pay structure any time we want. If you're right and the market's wrong then you'll kick the shit out of your competitors and make mad bank. If you're wrong and the market's right then you'll not do that.

I'm not the guy that made that comic my man-that's just an edit. I haven't really made any content to speak of, really. I don't have a website or blog; I'm mostly just focusing on trying to improve for the time being.

Ironically it seems that it's more important in STEM. I study biology and one of the things they expect you to do is make accurate drawings of subjects both macro and microscopic. I don't have any drawing ability and I actually get marked down for being poor at drawing in a fucking STEM degree.
The way it sounds, drawing is MORE important in STEM than art.
YOU NEED TO BE A BETTER DRAUGHTSMAN IN STEM THAN ART

That's why Silicon Valley is so buttmad with Trump. Trump want Pajeet out of Tech companies unless they hire all Americans having the same skills.

I don't know burgerbux well, but using some quick online conversions, you'd be looking at $50k USD easily.
Best work would be at an independent studio that ships out to multiple distributors, so to ensure a variety of work is available.
Freelance would be good, I guess. Furry commissions always pay well.

Flash is easier to use, but they still don't know how to use it.
Ironic, really.

This is 100% correct. Just like the companies and rich fucks freaking out about ending illegal immigration: they want their slave labor and they don't care how many Americans have to be fucked over for them to get it.

That is because STEM is objective. You have to actually be good to get most of the way through.

Art doesn't matter and the people who teach it know it. Most artists who are making money in art, didn't go to art school.

Don't forget but Trump also raised the amount of money that these tech companies had to pay their H1-B workers to somewhere in the range of $140,000 a year, defeating the whole point of hiring them in the first place

Coincidence? I think not.

The Calarts invasion and subsequent downfall of Cartoon Network is actually a deliberate act of corporate sabotage by Calarts' founding party, Disney.

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There are some on Newgrounds and YouTube who either haven't been contacted by the powers that be or were like Psychicpebbles and OneyNG and had their pitch rejected.

CalArts was founded by Disney, and I'd imagine they have some control over it still.
Maybe it's all a ploy to give CN shit workers on purpose.

Did they apply directly to WB/Turner/Disney, or did they try to work their way up?
Jumping the gun and going for the job you think you deserve isn't how things work.

CalArts rose from the ashes of the Chouinard Institute, which provided Walt's artists with the artistic training needed to make Snow White as much of a success with audiences as it was.

Without their guidance, the fair princess Snow White would have the same case of rickets that afflicted the goddess Persephone in the Silly Symphony short embedded here from 1934. There are only three years between the production of this short and the premiere of Snow White on Christmas weekend of 1937.

He willed a lot of his liquid assets to the institute's endowment when it was merged with a local music conservatory in 1961, and when he passed away from lung cancer five years later, it still resembled an art school. It was obviously an art school in function when Disney's veterans taught the likes of Glen Keane, John Musker, Kirk Wise, Ron Clements, John Lasseter, Henry Selick, and Tim Burton, because those are all people that have been the creative centers of some great films.

This is a problem that administration at either CalArts or Disney/Turner/Nickelodeon can fix. It doesn't mean they will, though.

vocaroo.com/i/s1dwSI9uQIWo
I'm shit and that hurts my throat, but it's fun.

Adult Swim reached out to them, if I recall correctly. On a side note, they've really kept people in the dark on what's happened with Hellbenders and whose responsibility it is now.

not bad though you sound like a mexican though.

I'm neither an actor nor do I have good control of accents.

You sound how I imagine Beuno Excellente sounding.

I must admit I was happy to hear that of all people the guy that made those retarded Steven Seagal cartoons on Newgrounds "made it". A lot of the more popular animators from those days weren't so lucky. LegendaryFrog is still doing cutout animations to this day but no one watches them because they're not fanart for one topical example.

I pay a lot of attention to it because it highlights a new interesting model of distributed production houses that could rise in the future. Aside from its origin as the RPGWorld/Steven Jewniverse guy's Lakewood Turbo Plaza pitch, it's also animated by Studio Yotta.

While I kind of agree with this I know a friend who attended Art Center and is working for (((Blizzard))), and he says that weird financial shit is going on at the school, they keep on raising the tuition by 6% annually and their financial statements have shown them to donate several million of student loans to African charities there has been six billion posts in this thread and yet I have not seen one mention of Gobelins.

If people are being all doom-and-fucking-/ic/-gloom in the thread about art school, then Gobelins is the school for Holla Forums. Cost? Cheaper than your average libtard arts degree, about 7k USD annually for three years. Want to get in? Good fucking luck, their entrance exam is heavy on draftsmanship skill, you basically have to draw a random character design they give you (and ensure that you have never seen before) competently on the spot and storyboard some shit out of the blue. Only about 25 make it into the entering class out of hundreds.

Success rate? Extremely fucking high. Nearly all of the people who exit will get a higher-up position immediately and exert considerable influence. A lot of foreigners working in anime like Thomas Romain attended Gobelins. Sylvain Chomet attended Gobelins. The worst you can become upon graduating is an European comics artist. You do have to speak and understand French competently to understand the classes, but if you fulfill all of the requirements you are set for life as far as your animation career is concerned.

Oh right? The teachers? When they say world class they mean it, Glen Keane is on the faculty.

Basically no fucking around.

Yeah but if you need to already be good to get in then it's not doing much to improve the industry as a whole.

Calm down, if you had to be at a level where you could already work in a professional environment then programs like Gobelins would have no point, would they?

I suppose it's easier to pretend that nothing can change about the industry and complain in an armchair than actually enacting the change yourself or looking for other options.

Where are they now?

...

That's because of

When CN drove off their old animators, Disney was quick to snap them up. Paul Rudish, Rob Renzetti, Craig McCracken, and countless others are now working for the mouse. Disney's current success is mostly thanks to their talent.

Having stringent standards for whom they'll accept is more or less a litmus test for whether or not a particular art school is worth attending. It might sound strange from the outside but it's the number one sign of a good school; a school that takes pride in its students and the reputation they intend to earn through that student's post-graduation career.

Art schools that play fast and loose with who they accept are a danger to their students and by proxy their well-meaning but often ignorant parents who're more often than not conscripted to help pay for the insane tuition they demand. These schools see thousands if not tens of thousands of young people come and go every single year and they know damn well just what kind of person is likely to make it just as they have a good idea who doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell, but all they care about is funneling as many warm bodies through the art-school-to-retail pipeline as they can. In stark contrast to the faculty of these schools the parents, friends and the prospective student themselves are seldom afforded the kind of context they need to make an educated decision on this matter so it's up to the school to protect these people from themselves.

The best schools want already reasonably skilled artists to attend because they won't just seek to improve the student's art, but also their punctuality, their speed, endurance and efficiency as it pertains to making art, as well as their communication skills. Basically an ideal school will give its students all the tools to advance beyond simply being a competent, studied hobbyist to the level of a true professional in every sense of the word, which in turn will give them the best shot they could possibly get to secure the kind of art career they were looking for from the beginning.

Those schools that accept anybody that just flippantly decides they want to go on a whim, who'd barely picked up a pencil beforehand or thought too hard about what they even wanted to do with it are not doing those students any favors, rather they are almost certainly leading them into a young adulthood mired in poverty. A school can take a good artist and make them great (assuming that student couldn't have done so themselves which is not uncommon), however it's extremely difficult for them to take a complete beginner who'd never drawn in their life and somehow make them good, let alone great, in such a short period of time.

wow this really gives me hope thanks for sharing user

So what you're saying is, it's the greedy as fuck and Marxist-filled education system that's to blame.

Yet again.

That's in biology. It's not universal to STEM.

This thread should be stickied. It's actually pretty fucking good.

Explain this.

I was wondering about the portfolio part. I'm a writer with plenty of disposable income. I was thinking of writing short comics for a little while and posting them up on a website or page that would showcase my work. Would this be a way to build?

Also should one not do kickstarter for comic stuff? I've heard horror stories.

There's nothing wrong with crowdfunding, but the big caveat is that you really need to do your fucking research well in advance on to how to promote yourself and what to do if your campaign is actually successful. Like if you want to crowdfund a printing run of your book/comic/short stories, you need to figure out the logistics and budget for shipping out copies and other rewards to your backers. Which can get expensive if some of them live in another country.

Most of those horror stories are likely the result of piss-poor planning or blatant swindling, neither of which you should worry about if you know what you're doing and you're upfront about what you intend to do with other people' money.

And if your campaign isn't successful, it's no big deal. Projects that get funded but can't deliver get more shit than projects that just don't get funded.

Call me crazy but I personally don't believe it's a coincidence that the faculty at these colleges often seem to be just as strong proponents of anti-capitalist ideology as they are uh…"aesthetic relativism".

The reason I feel these schools push that view as hard as they can through their staff is because it makes an easy red herring to distract their student from the true apparatus behind their economic malaise. This financial misery they experience is not truly the failure of any particular 'system', but is quite obviously owed primarily to the organization that's directly tithing them for hundreds of dollars each and every month for decades on end: the school, to which they'd sacrificed everything by signing on a dotted line.

youtube.com/watch?v=M_NNKfoBDbg

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College Fag here.

I think that's EXACTLY what they are doing. They tear down EVERYTHING. NOTHING is allowed, NOTHING is sacred. Everything is stolen, or oppressive, or insensitive. So as a result only the subversive can exist. Only ugly bullshit with a plaque of explanations is allowed to exist.

Or Importantly: Ignoring the issues. A Big part of SJW-culture is never letting up. The personal is political. personal space doesn't exist.

My Pre-Columbian Art Teacher spent all her time playing down any usage of Aztek art in modern culture to the point that a student asked for permission to use some Aztek doodad for his garden and she said no unless he has explicit aztek permission to do so.

But spent 2 classes blabbing on about the most bullshit ugly art ever as long as it was "Subversive". It can be racist, ugly, unpleasant, heck insensitive even. But as long as you write "Fuck Capitalism" in the upper corner your good as gold.

Since they don't understand that the whole ideology is rooted in a desire for outside powers to subvert and destroy western culture, they fail to realize that their goal is fucking absurd and world result in the most authoritarian, iron-fisted, heartless, totalitarian bullshit any civilization has ever seen.

All men must live in perpetual shame. All races must segregated. No cultures may mix or be appropriated. Everything is beautiful, but everything "normal" is ugly. Everyone gets everything for free, but no one has to produce anything of real value. Women are owed special treatment, but black women are owed even better treatment… literally a society where social class is determined by the number of labels you can amass.

It's fucking madness and the people who believe it are so far gone that we're looking at full CIA protocol for cult deprogramming… if the CIA weren't involved in this sort of shit.

archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison Bergeron_djvu.txt

Kurt Vonnegut Jr. saw it coming. He tried to warn us with this short piece.

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they're cheap, disposable, and if any of them get too uppity, they can be replaced by someone who draws JUST. LIKE. THEM.

I'm graduating community college as a formality, I barely learned shit outside general ed. Most of what I learned was self taught, and fuck, I dont consider myself the best out there, just highly fucking adaptable.

The problem with most people going into IT is that they do not treat it as something they adapt to, but a basic set of repetitive tasks that they must follow to make money. This is what the education system taught them how life works.

What's funny is, I know a lot, and yet a buddy of mine who tinkered with computers and knows a fraction of what I know makes $200k a year being a CIO, not actually knowing shit, just knows what the hottest technologies are, and knows who to hire and how to talk to vendors and CEO's. That's it. He's an IT coordinator that has the gist of what to do, but never lifts one damn finger himself. He hires techs to do his wishes, and lives a comfortable lifestyle in a very expensive area.

It's kind of frustrating, to be honest. Though he's successful because he's more or less good at coordinating and managing IT operations efficiently, and knows how to keep the purse strings open.

Turner no longer cares about animation just money and idiot ideologies.

Nickelodeon burned far too many bridges in the animation industry with their greedy bullshit to ever successfully recover except for rehashing existing properties. No one with an original good idea wants to come near them.

Disney is a money machine at this point, Walt's company is dead, and they will use the remaining talent in the industry to make them money. They have no interest in re-investing in animation outside of 3D. Which is why all the talented animation is left for the little bumpers on their TV channels, it's literally an afterthought at this point.

Hell, we may see disney scrap original 3D movies if marvel and lucasfilm properties give them ample income, especially with the mouse's copyright time eventually ending (and extending copyright again is going to be an even harder sale than it was last time)

None of the big names want to or care to fix this problem. cheap, easily replicated art styles that are not unlike soviet era art (aka, everyone had to draw in a specific style or else) work out great for them. If they decide they don't want to deal with the Craig McCrackens of the animation world or the John K's, they dont have to. everyone will pump out the same cheap crap that looks the same. firing uppity people is a sociopathic CEO's wet dream.

It would take the existing talent pool starting their own school and their own animation companies at this point to fix what's wrong.

The competition is too fierce for them to do so successfully.

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Academia in general is a circlejerk of ideological nepotism and rigidly suppressed creativity. Only the stupid survive.

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Let's be real. Who among us would be strong enough not to do the same were we in his position? He has ACTUALLY canonized himself as a love interest for his waifu, and literally cucked potentially tens of thousands of goyim in the process. It's extremely hilarious when you think about it, Doug Funnie's creator Jim Jinkins could take some notes from this guy. This hooknosed kike is /ourguy/ material for sure.

It's a cartoon you dip, technically she's like 1 because she's an artificially constructed marshmallow girl, right; Who cares nigga.

Go home

Hey there , Jared. Careful with these contradictions, m8!

Why can cartoons have attractive females like in Anime, why do we settle for this shit designs?

Is it because the creators are sex-phobic or what?

It's because it would require effort. And the old adage of "it's for kids, it doesn't matter" still sticks around in animation today in the west.

All those characters are kids and preteens though

That doesn't matter at all

This is gonna turn into the Holla Forums equals end of those Asian pro-miscegenation threads isn't it? Watch programs aimed at your demographic or read a GOOD comic if you need your dick to tingle whilst consuming media.

FUCK, why can't*

Please, adults in those shows aren't any better. Also Japan has lolis, so age shouldnt matter in order to make a good looking character or at least not an eye sore.

Casual.

And here is when the thread goes to shit

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that is like no excuse at all, Pokemon Anime is shit for a lot of reasons bus NOT for its character designs and this girls are all underage.

I think there's a difference between "aesthetically pleasing as a human being" and "sexual fantasy that is practically oozing feminine appeal"

Underage does not equal preteen though

And how the hell pretten equals "poorly made deformed abomination"?

And how exactly does your post resemble an argument?

I didn't make it famalam.

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Ooh, looks like I touched a nerve~

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We need Ateliers to be a thing again, where artists can learn their art through practice and not $50000 pretentious degrees.

Your argument was that those characters were excused of being ugly because they were kids and most precisely preteen kids, that implies that preteens are ieither intrincically ugly or that they should be drawn ugly by convention.

Is that their annual salaries?!
also why are part-timers paid more than full time animators?

If you're going to use a meme pushed by goons to divid the userbase, you might as well use it properly.

this

is what

reddit

spacing is.

If you have a portfolio, lots of studios will take you in off the street if you knock at their door. Much easier to hire someone who comes to you after they spend months/years making stuff to show you can to go to a college and pick the 5 least shit guys there who have forced letters of recommendation from their lecturers.

Casual loading rates. You get paid more shekels over the course of a year, but you'll never get 52 weeks of solid employment.

I wouldnt be surpised if Japanese animators hemselves refused to do cartoon characters nowadays, maybe for you they will look better drawn and better Animated, but Animators in Japan are otaku themselves, they hate the shit out of cartoon aestethics. but this is not racism is xenophobia ( lol cartoons are xenos)

And that's why its also dying. I love Japanese Animation. But it's become increasingly stiff and identical looking. More and more homogenized (And a chart from 4 years ago about a difference in line thickness won't really convince me otherwise).

Its to do with a lack of study of the human world. Its all based apon Anime, which is based apon anime which is based apon anime.

No, they'll do it; they don't care about the content like /a/ puritans think, they just want the money.
A lot of the good Japanese studios that the west used to ship to have gone bust, so now the west just does it cheaply in-house as there's no trusted Jap studios around.
I think BTAS made 4 studios close down due to costs over the entire series, and 2 of them were with one episode. Though, that was the studios fault, partially. They went above and beyond what they were asked/paid to do, so they at up all the money that was coming from WB.

Koreans have shut down a lot of studios, though that's due to Worst Korea changing wage laws.

I remember watching how in Swat Kats and Tiny Toons when drawn by Japanese Studious, Iwould love for a lot of cartoons to have that look, basically being more proportioned, more detailed, better shadeing ( or at least a shade at all) but I doubt that will ever happen again, Anime is to elitist now since fandom and creator are one and same, maybe this is why Miyazaky left his retirement.

I have seen some My little Pony, MlaaTR fan art by Japanese Animators and looks great, but if the otaku hate those characters there is no money to be made, also a good deal of the low end animators are otaku you just cannot deny that, it they wanted money they would be doing what everyone else is doing and join the interracial gay porn industry.

If an animator turns down an offer of money and wants to just produce the same shit, that's their choice, but western shows pay much more, so they're "purity" will just cost them money and future contracts.

Attempting to save a valuable thread from the Sam menace.

t. Jared Shapiro
He destroyed the legacy of Craig McCracken. PPG was supposedly to be his Dexter's Laboratory or his Samurai Jack. But because of this waifufag, it's worse than Steven Universe.

Well that was Hayao Miyazaki's biggest complain towards Japanese animators (the origin of "Anime was a mistake")

Miyazaki denounce them as waifufags who don't base their works on the reality of human interactions but rather into what they wanted people (particularly women) to be. That cancer even comes from the so called "Light Novels", because even Japanese Animation suffer from creative laziness and it's cheaper to adapt a Light Novel rather than create something original.

Even Kodansha is fed up with the generic "middle-schooler accidental pervert with a harem" waifushit. They banned such thematic in their literature contests for new Light Novels.

Lol, Miyazaki even regrets starting the whole Moe thing with the princess from Castle Of Cogliostro.

I am shocked.
Truly, deeply shocked.

(checked)
Paraphrasing Matisse "I was very embarrassed when my canvases began to fetch high prices. I saw myself condemned to a future of nothing but Masterpieces"

Miyazaki is having the same syndrome and he knows he's Ghibli. He tried to retire but now he has to return because nobody could sustain the studio. He's not Walt Disney.