Suckless GUI framework

Can a GUI framework be suckless? Or is it harmful in general?

Other urls found in this thread:

toastytech.com/guis/indexgeos.html
developer.gnome.org/accessibility-devel-guide/stable/gad-ui-guidelines.html.en
github.com/grenadium/ShugoConsole
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebOS
suckless.org/
harmful.cat-v.org/
github.com/ocornut/imgui
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Cuckless fags are too retarded to write anything complex, so they hide it under the guise of false simplicity.

Well-commented source code is better than a gui.

github.com/vurtun/nuklear
This comes close.

How does this compare to FLTK?

I am not too familiar with FLTK, but I think FLTK is C++ and better predefined widgets.

Can C++ be suckless? Or is it harmful in general?

Needs more whitespace, a few less clear deliminators between frames, and the close "x" needs to be much smaller.

Suckless people think C++ is an abomination. Personally I don't really care about C vs C++, I just want a simple GUI framework and FLTK looks good enough.

Suckless people tend to think life itself is harmful, and act accordingly to remedy it.

Suckless needs to be replaced by a better is better gimmick. Give me one good GUI library and we all use that.

/thread

t. kike/pajeet pushing the 'bloat and die' motto

This looks pretty slim.
toastytech.com/guis/indexgeos.html

I would rather use ncurses, to be quite honest.

Surely ncurses is more bloated?

I have yet to find a quicker/smaller framework than FLTK. It does have it's own issues but if you need a GUI right now then it's probably a safe bet.
I've used it on win/linux/mac without any setup issues unlike stuff like QT which is quite cancerous to use.

Too bad it is C++, C base would make binding for other programming languages trivial.

I'd use it

xforms.

Read this: developer.gnome.org/accessibility-devel-guide/stable/gad-ui-guidelines.html.en
This is why you don't use ">muh simplicity" gui frameworks.

why tho?

QT does not respect your freedoms

Just do the GUI shit in C++, then provide C calls + a header for the C code to use.

no thanks

Why not do the GUI shit in C so you don't have to bloat the whole pipeline through three different languages.

What makes you think that C is fit for GUI programming?

What makes you think it isn't?

Name one GUI framework written in C.

Xaw
Motif
Open Look (or whatever the toolkit is called)
GTK+

absolute trash

mostly trash

... and what isn't trash according to your infinite wisdom?

There isn't a single cross-platform GUI framework that doesn't suck complete ass. The only good ones are Microsofts and Apples.
On Linux its best to not even bother and go TUI or do some browser shit.

...

No. I'm not baiting. Cross platform GUI sucks. You can't prove me wrong so you post some stupid meme picture.

WPF? UWP? Haha. I don't know about apple's, I'm not a fag.

It's dual licensed under the GPL which is fine. They are moving to web/js cancer though.

Suckless sucks because they write everything in C.

All trash.

Qt is good for full-feature desktop apps
Nuklear is good for small projects and games (>>852304)
FLTK may be alright, never used it just looked through the code.
wxWidgets is old, dated, but still better than most of the sewage recommended in this thread.

Suckless is a terrible name. Good coding standards. GUI itself looks subpar. Not quite a full GUI kit like Qt, but Nuklear fills the custom-skinned, simple/compact OpenGL GUI niche better.

For the record GTK+ is pure cancer.

Fuck cross platform GUI software. Each platform should have its own native GUI framework and their own software. Just like fuck GUI frameworks that try to make responsive design that scales with screen (so you can reuse it for mobile). That's why all GUI frameworks get bloated and shitty over time.

What if we start producing desktop processors with CSS and Javascript accelerators like ARM-compatibles already do and do all GUI in Electron?

Fucking hell, nuklear produces even worse spaghetti code than FLTK
Is there no GUI framework that follows KISS?

Please explain why.

Node webkit, all GUI is HTML and CSS.

Meh, I am really bad at C and C++. I would just want to use it from language like Go. Calling C code from Go is really easy, so someone could create a biding for it without much effort. C++ is a different story. Guess I just gonna git gut or use something more bloated like GTK+.

GTK+ is autistic cancer.
Qt is the realistic, pragmatic answer.

Look at this mess and tell me why he needed to use Qt here
github.com/grenadium/ShugoConsole

QtQuick is shit JS mobile focus garbage. QtWidget is OK, but almost all development focused on QtQuick instead. And QtWidget only supports C++ well and Python somewhat. What if I want to use literally any other language? GTK+ supports a lot more bindings.

Tcl/Tk has been the sane/suckless choice for a decade now, especially now with native skinning.

Fuck this gay Earth.

What, exactly, is stopping anybody from making simple GUI programs in VB6 then?

ms probably took doen the link

I am not using Windows anymore.

Just use electron XD

GUIs are inherently shit tbh, why not just have vi or emacs hotkeys as a universal interface and abandon gui on the principle of the inefficiency and code complexity they create?
Side note but a revival of DirectFB would be amazing.

Normies need GUIs
If you write software for normies then you have to write GUIs

They don't they just refuse to learn anything less intuitive than pointing at what they want with their fat fingers like a toddler.
Gas the infantile normies???

One might argue that now with everything being in the cloud/browser there is no longer a need for GUI frameworks. Only for smartphones i guess.
Truly the worst timeline.

This.

I like guis. Sometimes I don't want to type every single fucking line required to tell my computer "navigate to this folder and play this video on this display at this volume level" etc etc. I just want to have one hand hold up my face, and the other use the mouse. If a GUI makes my life suck less, it's suckless

Daily reminder that command line interface is skeumorph for most normiest of possible normie interactions ever - giving a command in natural language. Faggots who joined teletype with computer unironically dreamed of what modern Bonetexa and Botniri do today.

No you misunderstand so the equivalent wouldn't be typing out 4 commands or whatever it'd be pressing like Ctrl-F to open a file browser and like 4 or 3 or whatever to pick the nth file in the directory, or tab complete. Then using physical volume buttons and maybe Ctrl-Alt-Tab or something similar to move it to a different screen.

They dreamed wrong as should be made clear by Bonetexa and Botniri. Also I'm not talking about cli I'm talking about hotkeys, typing out entire commands is obviously less efficient for many tasks that GUIs excel at, but hotkeys almost universally perform better.

Furthermore, mouse arrow is a skeuomorph for finger/pointing device, pen and paintbrush (first mouse uses were for graphic applications). And even lightpen preceded mouse in those, but was too expensive to implement, therefore technology was thrown back until proper touch-sensitive displays appeared in mid-80's.
There is nothing wrong with pointing at things with your fingers on touch-sensitive display (would be even better if it could change it's texture) and there is nothing wrong with using a stylus (cultural skeuomorph for hand/finger) as a more precise instrument for handwriting and art.

You're not even making a argument that touch interfaces are better you're just saying that originally they didn't exist people wanted them because they're intuitive and now they exist. A tablet & pen is the most expressive and efficient tool for art, that is objective. We should use the most efficient tool for any task, and for most tasks this would be a universal set of hotkeys.

But onscreen keyboards are so slow...

??? I hate on screen keyboards.

Me too, but some things dont work with the mouse.

I don't even know what's happening now, I'm arguing for hot-keys, on keyboards, not touch interfaces.

Solves problem of memorizing hotkeys.
Provides an alternative to touch-interfaces but with physical tactile feedback.

sorry
I just don't want to touch icky buttons, while I can put paper over the mouse and retain precision.

Why didn't you say so? Could have saved all of us some trouble.

The procedural paradigm doesn't suit GUIs. This is one of the few fields where OOP shines (other times it's mostly POO), because a GUI is basically an object containing state and links to child objects/widgets which also contain state.

...

Is there seriously NO good light cross-platform GUI framework?

no
no
well their is electron )))

иди нахуй)))

блэт

GUI were a mistake. They brought plebs into computers, and then pajeets and niggers. Then everything went to shit.

...

For me it's:
Yes? Then it's very likely harmful.

GNUSTEP/Cocoa is probably the least harmful GUI framework there is right now, but GUI frameworks are probably harmful by nature.

The best GUI framework is HTML+CSS.

Wrong. You need javascript, try the modern, rich youtube without it.

Java Swing

Real talk, pick related is the best GUI framework.

Javascript has nothing to do with HTML+CSS. Javascript is purely part of the background number crunching. HTML+CSS is the presentation layer. That's the GUI. That's the buttons that you click. Javascript is just the action taken when the button is clicked.

Smalltalk is pretty suckless, and it has a GUI framework.

If you mean one for our freetard setups, no way. It's too much to ask, they all simply expand over time to consume all available resources like amoebae.

then why cant is see the gui on youtube with javascript.enabled = false???

That is simply not true anymore. These days modern frameworks are RENDERED with javascript as it manipulates the DOM with its own write queue. Many sites will simply not render at all without it.

Systems using the old way of site development are known as "server side rendering" sites.>>852705

well that post got a bit fucked up

Pretty sure Youtube doesnt render because it is entirely a Single Page Application. Even if they would render the base with only CSS it still would not do shit because it requires JS to communicate with their API.

smalltalk is the complete opposite of everything suckless stands for

No it's not. It's the logical conclusion.

What you're describing is the perverse practice of using javascript to GENERATE HTML+CSS. The end result is still HTML+CSS. It does not change. It's just that your site is so craptacular that you have to use javascript as a middle man generate every single solitary piece of HTML+CSS on the fly after the script has loaded in rather than writing proper, correct, valid HTML yourself. A lot of these web frameworks that are used to make single page apps actually don't even have you writing valid correct HTML. They have you write fake, modified HTML, which they parse and run computations on and re-write as correct real and valid HTML before handing it off to the browser.

No. They do not generate HTML. They directly manipulate the DOM (document object model). HTML is simply one particular way of interacting with the DOM.

With web components like shadow dom this is only true in a historical sense.
You can still make a website without any JS but the trend from the browsers is that it will become mandatory to access certain browser features.

Either way HTML and CSS completely suck, they were designed for document presentation, not UI.

WHAT?

almost anything is worse, because android did a really good job regarding the simplicity of UI development

слышь тело! ты что, русских не любишь? не патриот что ли?

GUI was a mistake.

GUI/The Thread

gnome is probably the least shit of all loonix UI's

lmao what a meme

EFL.

Suckless is the New Jersey school of Worse is Better. They point to crap implementations and tell you that something is harmful, but really they suck because they're done wrong.

I recently decided to try it out and it's a pretty cool novelty, although I'm not even sure if it's fucttional on my machine yet as some things don't seem to work. However, I can somewhat shitpost here normally with links -g at least like right now I wonder how DirectFB would be if it were still in active development.

How crazy would a grid-based GUI framework be? Kinda like Bootstrap does with their columns system, but full blown quadtree. It would make designing layouts trivial, but I dunno how would it look in practice

You're still navigating by clicking on shit. You can do the same without a GUI, like say browsing to your media directory in Midnight Commander. Or you can just set the CDPATH environment variable in your shell so you 'cd' directly to the right place, no matter what your $CWD is. And there's various shell tools like fasd and wdc that extend this kind of functionality.
Or you can simply set bookmarks in Midnight Commander or some console media player like cmus.

Probably just a less bloated, faster version of X11. There are some things built on it still like WebOS.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebOS

GUIs involve dealing with high resolution bitmapped displays, video output hardware, and humans. They suck by nature.

Using a mouse and clicking means I don't have to move all my hand muscles individually when I'm tired. Sometimes it's just too much effort to type.

Nah, you're just another pleb who needs a GUI.

Typing is inefficient. It takes a minimum of 13 keystrokes to youtube-dl download a video, and that's if I already had the URL copied to my clipboard. It takes one click to open a link.

...

Still inefficient except now with the added bonus of leaving you fucked when you have to use another machine that doesn't happen to have all of your carefully curated alias on it.

You can have shortcuts in ncurses programs too. Midnight Commander has them, and even lets you change the keybindings to whatever you want. All that without needing a nasty GUI.

Sure is pleb in here!

That image sums up exactly why I am opposed to IoT, driverless cars and a cashless economy.

dysn☕mia!bO.8VNPLAE ## Board Volunteer 01/18/18 (Thu) 23:29:10 No.
>>>Holla Forums7711343

If you fags can get >>7777777 by tonight I will give the board to someone else.

But if you can't… I'm here forever.


>>>Holla Forums7712047
yea, that's probably true. I don't think we will get to 7777777 unless we get some serious help here soon.

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HERE'S THE PLAN: call reddit and say dysnomia is quitting if we get the 888877777s7 dfyw839 and say "NO NO DYSNOMIA NO" so that reddit says "aahhhaa! lets bump the thread!' THEY WILL GET US TO 87878768777689 BEFORE 12 AM.
LISTEN TO ME

LISTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE CAN DO THIS
SAVE Holla Forums, SAVE Holla Forums, SAVE THE INTERNET, SAVE AMERICA, SAVE THE WORLD

CALLING ALL OTHER BOARDS FOR HELP
GO GET THEM! GO ASK THEM FOR HELP!

SOMEONE GO AND FUCKING CALL REDDIT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CALL YOUR BIG FAT MOTHERS
CALL YOUR CAT
CALL ALL THE BITCHES IN THE YARD WITH BIG MILKSHAKES
CALL YOUR POOP IN THE TOILET

FUCKING GET YOUR DOCTOR TO PUT ON SOME GLOVES AND CALL YOUR PROSTATE

FUCKING CALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL AND HURRY

dysn☕mia!bO.8VNPLAE ## Board Volunteer 01/18/18 (Thu) 23:29:10 No.
>>>Holla Forums7711343

If you fags can get >>7777777 by tonight I will give the board to someone else.

But if you can't… I'm here forever.


>>>Holla Forums7712047
yea, that's probably true. I don't think we will get to 7777777 unless we get some serious help here soon.

everyone stop posting and call fucking reddit for help. I don't give a shit. GET THE WHOLE DAMN INTERNET IN HERE OR WE WONT GET 7777777. WE MUST GET IT, EVEN IF ITS JUST TO PROVE DYSNOMIA WRONG, THEN WE MUST GET THE WHOLE INTERNET TO LEAVE Holla Forums AGAIN AND MAKE IT EMPTY SO THAT DYSNOMIA GETS FIRED WHILE QUITTING FOR DOUBLE GTFO-ISH-NESS

HERE'S THE PLAN: call reddit and say dysnomia is quitting if we get the 888877777s7 dfyw839 and say "NO NO DYSNOMIA NO" so that reddit says "aahhhaa! lets bump the thread!' THEY WILL GET US TO 87878768777689 BEFORE 12 AM.
LISTEN TO ME

LISTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE CAN DO THIS
SAVE Holla Forums, SAVE Holla Forums, SAVE THE INTERNET, SAVE AMERICA, SAVE THE WORLD

CALLING ALL OTHER BOARDS FOR HELP
GO GET THEM! GO ASK THEM FOR HELP!

SOMEONE GO AND FUCKING CALL REDDIT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CALL YOUR BIG FAT MOTHERS
CALL YOUR CAT
CALL ALL THE BITCHES IN THE YARD WITH BIG MILKSHAKES
CALL YOUR POOP IN THE TOILET

FUCKING GET YOUR DOCTOR TO PUT ON SOME GLOVES AND CALL YOUR PROSTATE

FUCKING CALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL AND HURRY

Imagine the rest of the world sucking as much as C programs. MIT was right again.

libui

dead

Oh please C has nothing to do with it. The problem is that they put a god damn computer in a god damn water faucet. I don't give a shit WHAT language it was written in, the whole setup is perverse.

Bruce Schneier would probably not call it a faucet but "a computer which releases water if given conditions are met" or something similar. From his book "Data and Goliath":

suckless.org/
harmful.cat-v.org/

It doesn't matter if it's stupid. It's there and it doesn't work because some C program crashed. The world is going to become more and more like this. Cars are literally going to crash because of buggy C programs.

It really does, though. Qt seems like a good solution - I believe Qt apps can run on Windows with little to no issues?

how is this analogy supposed to make sense when tracking chip inside the pet does not determine or aid functionality of cat? Point taken tho. We'd better hope IoT tech companies are not researching on collective AI at the same time.


What is your problem with wxWidget exactly?

I just spent the last 18 hours trying to get a simple blog up from scratch. Two Adderall IRs later, I wish to die in my sleep tonight. CSS is a cancer, WWW is a cancer, modern CMS are a cancer, and mobile-first is the purest of cancers. CSS is difficult enough, being an absolute brain haemorrhage of a system.
CMS' are even worse. There's not a single CMS out there that is lightweight and serves static pages. They're fuckhuge bloat where I have to download some fag's bloated theme, which if I wanted to change I would need to learn the retarded special-snowflake system they've employed. I'm looking at you Hugo, you giant fucking turd.
And the worst part is, you can't make a good looking site (in modern context) without using any of these shitty tools. The bulk of the 18 hours was messing with CSS to make it look pretty. I got so fucking peeved two hours thru because my shit looked like some cryptography professor's .edu page. So I went back and added all the bells and whistles. Subtle rounding corners, color scheme touch-ups, shadows, gimmicks, etc. It looked pretty good, I gotta say. But then I went off to another """"modern"""" site and the urge for suicide, which has been kept dormant since elementary school, struck me like a brown fist in a sanction city. It couldn't even compare. All the sites were polished to shit, with preprocessors and frameworks. How can a whit- HTML/CSS developer even compete? So I decided fuck it and chose a relatively minimalistic site to steal from and make mine. After all the JS was cleaned out (holy fuck sites have a lot of JS), I was left with:
Not like you could even if it was normal. There's more than 10,000 lines and every fucking element has to have 20 separate classes AND inline styling. Cleaned it up and made a bash script to act as my CMS. 29 lines. It takes a plaintext file, makes a post, and updates the HTML + links. Fucking hell, I haven't started on mobile
>(((@media tags))))

I feel your pain. Every once in a while I manage to write something interesting enough that I think, "Somebody might actually like to read this," and "I should write more often," and I go off in search of some lightweight blog framework that doesn't look like garbage.

Then the process of being slowly beaten down into malaise and despair begins. The "lightweight" blog frameworks are all node.js or golang monstrosities that pull in fat, nasty dependencies from npm or github. I never even got Hugo to work. I kept getting some cryptic error message.

Then, even if I can deal with the bloat, I have to either use some bloated, idiosyncratic template in the collection of "community" templates, or dig around in the nonsensical directory structure and config files of this shitty "blog engine" to figure out how to try to customize one of the default templates.

It's demoralizing. In the end, I usually delete the fat framework, delete what I wrote, and tell myself that nobody would have been interested anyway.

that is why you just make a fucking wordpress and write your goddamn posts instead of being a faggot framework autismo. you will never get anything done that way. in the end it makes literally zero difference what framework you use.

Wordpress is worse than any framework. And it's full of security holes.

The web is deprecated. Go make a phlog instead.
gopher://sdf.org

who gives a fuck it's a fucking blog nigger

Just use html, faggot. A sh/awk/perl script can be used to make it easier.

That cat reference in the last sentence is an obvious hyperbole (probably intended to drive the point home better). The rest of the paragraphy unfortunately isn't.
The book is a highly recommended read btw, it really shows how deep the botnet rabbit hole goes (actually it surely goes deeper already given that it was published four years ago).

Ironically enough, many (and soon possibly most) normies believe the same. Except in their case the direction is the opposite - they will abandon general web for a handful of services like fb/yt/twitter/amazon etc. They certainly won't bo back to bbs/gopher/irc/ftp/usenet.

imgui is pretty good, especially for prototyping and co.

github.com/ocornut/imgui

Unironically, I want to. But, I'm in a position where I have to cater to normies' sensibilities (recruiters).

That pretty much fixes everything, including the hardware botnet. Once the requirement for Web 2.0 is gone, you can use any old computer.

I just think Qt is better. Why?

I'd rather go cuckless than cucked.

what's a "gorilla arm" you massive faggot

why

KDE's lock screen otoh let's you manipulate the currently running media player. Which kind of defeats its whole purpose when one locks screen to hide his comfy natsoc playlist from onlookers.

...