Were the X.Men Mutants really (according to Comicbookgirl19) a metaphor for...

Jonathan Mitchell
Jonathan Mitchell

Were the X.Men Mutants really (according to Comicbookgirl19) a metaphor for lgbt, in particular gay people?

Because that makes a lot of sense.

Jack King
Jack King

You have to be completely ignorant of comics to not know this. X-men were created and used for a lot in the past as allegories for oppressed minorities and gay people.

Josiah Harris
Josiah Harris

Yeah, I just mean was it actually the intent of the authors to have such obvious lgbt parallels?

Normal humans can give birth to mutants = straight couples give birth to gay people

So can we talk about that?

James Nelson
James Nelson

There's not really much to talk about. Especially since no one here is really that interested in politic/social allegories unless they're so fucking terrible that we have to shit on them. Plus mutants and X-men in general just suck. Allegory for oppressed groups aside, they've gone way past the point of tolerability and should have been phased out from the Marvel universe a long time ago. They've legit caused most of the catastrophic disasters and shit that happens in the comics. They deserve to be hated. Now that's a more fitting discussion topic to have.

Caleb Watson
Caleb Watson

Speaking of X-men, now that J-Law wants out of the movies do you think they'll bring back Rebecca Romijn to play Mystique?

Liam Williams
Liam Williams

but I am bisexual and I am kinda curious
bicurious you might say hahaha xD

Isaac Cox
Isaac Cox

They'll probably want someone younger than Romijn since Mystique is supposed to look super young despite her age. Granted she'd be wearing lots of makeup so it wouldn't matter to much but still.

XD

Leave.

Ayden Roberts
Ayden Roberts

Leave
that was all you found wrong with my post?

I am surprised.

Parker Turner
Parker Turner

They were a representation of puperty and the alienation of teenagers. With Magneto as a Nazi.

The X-Men being a stand-in for Fags/Jews/Whatever didn't come until later.

Luis Harris
Luis Harris

Magneto = Right wing Lgbt?

Zachary King
Zachary King

Stan Lee himself has said this many times. Many of the early Marvel heroes were like this actually. Spiderman was an "outcast" in a way. So were the F4. They were just making political statements about what was considered to be important in those years, and partially doing it because they never acknowledged the Holocaust during ww2 comics, which was something kids would not understand, according to Lee, and I believe Will Eisner had this opinion too.

Elijah Brooks
Elijah Brooks

I thought the only reason he came up with mutants first was because having them develop their abilities naturally was easier than coming up with their own origin story.

Andrew Wilson
Andrew Wilson

Comics code retardation really killed a lot of themes and topics of discussion, like how the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, had to have "Evil" in their names, or can't mention certain countries that were in a terrible state because the Cold War.

Hunter Russell
Hunter Russell

Nice numbers.
Stan would also pull origin stories out of his ass. Apparently, what he could say about social issues and political ideas for kids and teens was more important than being accurate with their origins. He said this when talking about Hulk, though, but you can see how it translates to the rest of the series as well. It doesn't really matter how the mutants develop their powers, it just matters that they are outcasts and rejected because of their identity.

He did this mostly because of this reason:

And he went further with this when he collaborated with authorities to make the anti drug comics. Again, he didn't knew anything about drugs, and it's implied that he didn't research the topic, even, but it was more important to make kids think drugs are bad.

Oddly enough he was very opposed to the idea of Marvel MAX.

Jacob Hernandez
Jacob Hernandez

Reagan really had the most cringiest way on fighting the war on drugs while the CIA still profiting. Seems like comics started into the "adult and mature" storytelling and accuracy after the 90s and restrictions were being loose.

Mason Perry
Mason Perry

The Spiderman anti drug comic was in 1971, and it became very famous for not being approved by the comics code. Years later it would become apparent that only the Big Two and their associates cared about the Code. Marvel shook it off rather quickly, but DC kept it as a nostalgia thing, almost as if they were the comic version of the Parental Advisory stickers.

The Comics Code went to shit when the graphic novel boom started in the mid 80s with TDKR and Watchmen. And then Vertigo and all the british authors proved how ridiculous it was.

Jackson Kelly
Jackson Kelly

Almost forgot about the heavy storytelling by the 80s, still, I blame the comics code and near monopoly by the Two Turds for making comics just be known for capeshit, Marvel and DC, no matter how many movies you sell, people will never buy the comics.

Nathaniel Thomas
Nathaniel Thomas

Superheroes aren't really a problem. And their fixation on superheroes is a relatively recent thing. Before *and* after the Code, the Big Two still kept many little imprints for non superhero comics. Romance comics, funny animal comics, mystery comics, etc. But the Code was practically taylor made for killing horror comics, something which in Europe served as a training ground for all the artists who later did adult comics in the vein of Vertigo or even darker. And even if you were doing a comic more suited for kids, you could still do more troublesome stuff, like having kids essentially fighting every kind of authority (parents, teachers, etc). Practically the entire creative team of 2000AD had a background in children's comics, actually. The guys from Metal Hurlant had that too.

It also explains why they are less prudish about content in comics. And it's not just about the tits.

Joshua Ramirez
Joshua Ramirez

The X-men represent responsible gun owners in a
world that hates the second amendment.

Levi Roberts
Levi Roberts

responsible
all the atrocities and calamities caused by mutants, including the X-Men

Aaron Martinez
Aaron Martinez

DC kept the Code because they were the primary architects of it.

Angel King
Angel King

That is a very interesting take on the concept of mutants. Far better and original than minorities angle that has been done to death.

Parker Reyes
Parker Reyes

according to comicbookgirl19
user, before we delve into how silly you are for not knowing this, why were you watching this drivel in the first place?

Now, X-Men was the left-wing allegory. It was probably the starting point for Marvel to get to where they are now, which is ironic as the X series are now the least liberal ones they're printing.

Anyways, it started out as just being oppressed minorities. That's why a lot of them had different skin tones as well, to simulate other races. Gays were included with the mutants that changed form or had different looking appendages. Also, the gays were portrayed further by the mutants having relationships with mutants, not normal humans.

Then Xavier and Magneto had to be Holocaust survivors for the Jews. That one got strung out really long because the Jews in Marvel wanted everyone to remember.
The Jew part is probably the only part they properly portrayed in the films, and that's only because it was so easy. Mind you, the films did try to do the "locking in the bathroom and cutting" with Angel, I guess.

That was about it. After a couple decades, everyone worked it out finally and X-Men stopped being allegories for the oppressed and just became wacky superheroes with awkward/funny powers.

Now, stop watching shitty gaymrrrr grrrls and lurk here more, as well as asking stupid questions, until you understand the history of comics. I'd rather see 30 redditors make a thread every day with a question than 30 redditors making threads with a YouTube e-celeb telling me what really happened.

Jose Williams
Jose Williams

Considering the HEAVY Christian/Catholic influences, overtones and outright insertions in the source material and the original cartoon?
NO, AND ONLY IDIOTS THINK THIS

X-Men was a broad allegory for anyone and everyone who was outcast by society and prejudged based on things which were outside of their control, mostly race.

It was also, as I see it, allegorical of the awkward phase for kids, the phase of introspection where we move from childish thought into "Who am I?", "Why am I here?" and seek purpose.
OF COURSE THIS SCARCELY HAPPENS IN OUR DEMORALIZED, MATERIALISTIC/ATHEISTIC DEGENERATE SOCIETIES TODAY
but it was natural (and still happens, but it's perverted by corruption from society, broken homes, irrational and twisted philosophies, pummeling politics rather than encouraging values, etc.

What's great about REAL X-Men (old cartoon especially) is that it never made it overt that it was about any one particular race - but that there was a guiding hand (God) in charge of things and, through Nightcrawler, even a man as tormented and blood-soaked as Logan could be saved in Christ.

inb4 WAAAAH STOP THE CHRISTIAN TALK
LEARN YOUR COMIC HISTORY, STUPID
It's not my fault you're uppity about what was once the bedrock of the lore behind Marvel and DC (even referenced in Bruce Tim's Justice League with the capes literally seeing the hand of God creating existence via a time-portal distortion, though no one really mentions anything, and Batman Beyond was there too)

TL;DR Queero and godless Hollywood (with a pedophile-buddy director, mind you) and all the twisted heads of Marvel and DC today want to reimagine the X-Men as some LGBT heroes or something because they're mostly child predators and/or neo-liberal tumblrinas.

But this is the real origin of X-Men.
Also, Peter Parker was originally a Christian if I recall. Just thought I'd add that in. Also that Logan prayed to Jesus in one of the cartoon's episodes.

There was once a time in this country when that could happen and we would feel happy.

Jackson Perez
Jackson Perez

wat

Chase Nelson
Chase Nelson

Like, woah.

Ryder Gomez
Ryder Gomez

They were originally created for the civil rights movement. However, after a point that didn't work, as blacks weren't really that bad off, so it switched it the LGBT community,

Brayden Martinez
Brayden Martinez

Hah, you've reminded me how glad I was to have read Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. That was a truly Biblical culmination of events.

Charles Wright
Charles Wright

XMEN and the idea of mutants didn't start as an allegory. The allegory is retroactively applied to the entire franchise. Mutant discrimination was a story element; however discrimination itself is where the allegory was applied, re-applied, emphasized, re-emphasized, forced down your throat, used to resize every orifice, more and more with every new writer and adaption. It was very easy to make this connection because it was as simple as showing a person indoctrinated to find instances of discrimination, show them a story where superheroes are feared/misunderstood/mistreated, and they will identify that as discrimination. The discrimination allegory itself became a meme of sorts because everyone who brought it up did it to make themselves sound smart; e.g. "Dude, XMEN is like an allegory for racism n sheeeeit," - which is exactly why ecelebs like to dedicate an entire video to it till this day and despite Marvel saying they're going back to making the XMEN about superheroes.

The bottom line is this. It's not an allegory for any group. It's just an easy low-hanging fruit for people to attach the label of "allegory discrimination" to and bring someone in for interviewing who totally claims that XMEN helped them through [insert tough period in life] and because of that they want to be part of an XMEN media project. It's as pretentious, flimsy, patronizing, and phony as anything else.

Daniel Butler
Daniel Butler

XMEN and the idea of mutants didn't start as an allegory.
Yeah, it's not like the creators repeatedly said that was the point or anything.

Sebastian Ross
Sebastian Ross

imagine if immigrants and trannies could fly and shoot lasers at you that would be not cool

Luis Sullivan
Luis Sullivan

they never acknowledged the Holocaust during ww2 comics, which was something kids would not understand

or maybe they would look at what they were doing to japanese during that time and figure out it's pretty much the same minus crematoriums and soap

Noah Rivera
Noah Rivera

The discrimination allegories weren't a significant thing for the X-Men until the Giant Size issue, which began with Nightcrawler being chased by a mob. Before that the book was a failed superhero book about hip teen-aged outcasts, and mutation was just a convenient way for Stan Lee to avoid creating new origins.

Christopher Davis
Christopher Davis

I thought the gun owner thing was more like Civil War? Heroes have to register because a few fuck up even though the most of them are good like how gun owners have to register even though most of them are good.

Michael Gray
Michael Gray

Wow never thought I would see a cartoon that actually showed praying.

Austin Rogers
Austin Rogers

It wasn't meant specifically for LGBT, that just came in with the Ultimate comics line. Originally it was just "minorities in general".

Spider man is the nerd outcast. F4 is the nuclear family going through issues and facing the new age.

Jason Foster
Jason Foster

teenage outcasts
For some reason that reminds me of Doom Patrol.

Honestly I wonder if they ever tried to deal with the mutants issue honestly. Like yeah discrimination is wrong but mutants are capable of levelling builidings with their powers when they hit adolescence. I'm surprised they don't have more Xavier like schools pop up just to help young mutants deal with their powers then come back to regular society.

Bentley Adams
Bentley Adams

For some reason that reminds me of Doom Patrol.
Doom Patrol was the same thing, outcasts, freaks, disabled, was out by the same time as X-Men, never really did go beyond the "Circus of Freaks" theme or the Weird Science crap as the years go by.

Parker Thomas
Parker Thomas

Doom Patrol was really more trying to be a comic book over a preachy soap box. Which the new book seems to be doing as well.

Christopher Green
Christopher Green

It's truly amazing how you jackasses manage to blame everything on people not believing in false fairy tales. Hell, you can't even play the "hurr atheists have no morals" considering everything I hear about them says they commit fewer crimes. You aren't so utterly fucking stupid that you believe that not believing in your brand of fairy tale makes one amoral, are you?

It's extremely unfortunate that atheism has to a large degree been co-opted by SJWs and feminists, but that doesn't mean that the act of not believing in fictional deities is a bad thing. Instead of bitching at what is essentially applying the scientific method to religion, you should be bitching to get SJWs and feminists to release their grip on things that have zero relation to their bullshit.

Parker Reyes
Parker Reyes

Caring at all what someone who couldn't think of a better name than comicbookgirl19 has to say

Anyone can be an outcast (Whether by appearance,behavior ,beliefs , or status) just like anyone could be a mutant. They never were representative of a single specific group. Especially since cultures change and groups that were reject can later become accepted.

Caleb Peterson
Caleb Peterson

wanting more Anti-SJW and Anti-feminist bitching
not knowing antis are usually more annoying than the movement their against
not knowing you're proving my point

William Miller
William Miller

Doom Patrol is actually a few months older than X-Men. Inside DC's logic, they are something in the lines of the "dark side" of the Justice League. Their enemies were also pretty weird. However the X-Men don't really have anything like them in the rest of the Marvel Universe. Excalibur doesn't count imo.

Adrian Wood
Adrian Wood

according to Comicbookgirl19

Literally who?

And no, they weren't fags until the mid-90s or so. Before that they were negroes or juden or something. Basically, they were always stand-ins for any outcast group that was misunderstood and hated and stole everyone's fucking hubcaps and shekels

Benjamin Nguyen
Benjamin Nguyen

When they were created? No. Stan just wanted a quick team and "mutant" was an easy handwave. Any explanation otherwise that says the social commentary was there from the beginning is horse shit.

It wasn't until Claremont's run post-Phoenix Saga (and specifically God Loves, Man Kills) when you start getting the work done on Magneto that the racial aspect comes up. Then other writers went from there. The X-Men's "other" concept is broad enough that anyone can read into it and view their own struggles: race, sexuality, even just being part of a general subculture like a loser geek comic book fan and feeling like an outsider.

That's (partly) why the X-Men resonated with so many people and gained so much popularity.

Has Claremont ever gone into his religious views? Because yeah, there's a lot of Christian/religious stuff in his run and none of it ever really comes across as heavyhanded or preachy. GLMK is probably the preachiest it gets but that's because Stryker's meant to represent a certain type of religious zealot and not religious people in general.

Josiah Gonzalez
Josiah Gonzalez

Stan was really basic in his gimmicks. Other people have applied the "outcast" trait since their inception. You could say the same for the Hulk. You could say the same for The Thing. Is The Thing the FF4's LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ Trans Racial Tran ethereal Chaos Spawn? I dunno, but if the writer decides it it can be.

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