The Polish Operation

Aiden Price
Aiden Price

Apparently polish communists were ordered to be killed just because they were polish. Unfortunately the polish operation a cant be disproven by it sounding ridiculous and illogical. Are there any statistics of the polish population in the USSR? Are there any nonfalsified orders.

Currently this "crime" is one of the strongest and most frequent arguments among eastern europeans against stalinists while stalinists aren't adressing it. This has to stop.

All urls found in this thread:
http://spartacus-educational.com/RUSzinoviev.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Rokossovsky
http://libgen.io/book/index.php?md5=4F13589002A3DFA4B0139B332FEF54AD
Oliver Mitchell
Oliver Mitchell

Wew just found out about this. Thanks for adding to the list of Insane Things ☭TANKIE☭s Actually Did.

Robert Bailey
Robert Bailey

The entirety of the Great Purge was a mistake.

Even with Tukhachevsky's confession still being a state secret, I don't put any stock in confessions given under duress.

Jacob Lopez
Jacob Lopez

<Get subjected to ethnic cleansing just for being polish by state socialism
leftypol wonders why people in the former USSR gravitate towards ethno nationalism

Daniel Mitchell
Daniel Mitchell

Except its most likely polish propaganda

Easton Taylor
Easton Taylor

Holy fuck a sane ☭TANKIE☭ in the wild!

Easton Fisher
Easton Fisher

I don't put any stock in confessions given under duress.
Where’s the evidence the confessions were given under duress?

Landon Evans
Landon Evans

http://spartacus-educational.com/RUSzinoviev.htm

cntrl f "torture" you mongoloid.

Kayden Sullivan
Kayden Sullivan

Even if you dismiss every account given as "propaganda", 1) Yezhov was still nuts, 2) it's 1930's and nobody knows how to extract information otherwise, yet, as the proper studies have not been conducted.

Jonathan Long
Jonathan Long

Also Yezhov himself claimed that torture was used against him to get a confession. It was standard practice.

Caleb Sanders
Caleb Sanders

So yezhov really tried to genocide every pole in the USSR

Jeremiah Taylor
Jeremiah Taylor

never happened
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Rokossovsky

Hunter Hernandez
Hunter Hernandez

Upon his arrest by the NKVD, his wife and daughter were sent into internal exile, where his wife Julia was forced to support their daughter by finding odd jobs, which she would lose when it was discovered that her husband had been arrested as a "traitor".[9]

V. V. Rachesky, a cell mate of Rokossovsky, wrote in his memoirs that Rokossovsky blamed the persecution of innocent people on the NKVD and was "naive", refusing to acknowledge Stalin's role in creating the treacherous environment. He described Rokossovsky's refusal to sign a false confession:

"Those who refused to sign a false statement were beaten up, as long as the false statement was not signed. There were steadfast people who stubbornly did not sign. But there were relatively few. K. K. Rokossovsky, as he sat with me in the same cell did not sign a false statement. But he was a brave and strong man, tall and broad-shouldered. He too was beaten."[14]

His grandson Colonel Konstantin Rokossovsky Vilevich says that his grandfather escaped the fate of so many other officers because he refused to sign a false statement and by proving to the court that the officer who his NKVD accusers claimed had denounced him had been killed in 1920 during the civil war;

"The evidence was based on the testimony of Adolph Yushkevich, a colleague of my grandfather in the Civil War. But my grandfather knew very well that Yushkevich died in Perekop. He said that he would sign [a confession] if Adolph was brought for a confrontation. They looked for Yushkevich and found that he had died long before."[16]

Kresty Prison, where Rokossovsky was imprisoned in Leningrad, today Saint Petersburg

Alexander Solzhenitsyn reports that Rokossovksy endured two mock shooting ceremonies where he was taken out at night by a firing squad, but then returned to prison.[17] Living relatives say that Svetlana Pavlovna, wife of Marshal Kazakov, confirmed that he sustained injuries including broken and denailed fingers and cracked ribs on top of enduring mock shooting ceremonies. Rokossovsky never discussed his trial and imprisonment with his family, only telling his daughter Ariadne that he always wore a revolver because he would not surrender alive if they came to arrest him again.[9]

BASED NKVD ARRESTING SOMEONE ON THE CLAIMS OF SOMEONE WHO WAS DEAD AND TRYING TO GET HIM TO SIGN A FALSE CONFESSION SO THEY COULD KILL HIM

Holy shit that's actually so fucked up. Imagine trying to live in such a paranoid atmosphere.

David Martinez
David Martinez

Fair point, also vishinsky was spared. However, there was a supposed minority of poles in soviet ukraineand belarus(before 1939), and siberia, and all of them were rounded up in gulags and left to starve. Is there any demographic evidence to the contrary? Also, stalin supposedly told yezhov to keep rooting out the "polish scum" and that there are NKVD documents labeling poles as bourgeois traitors.

Evan Martinez
Evan Martinez

A good ☭TANKIE☭ isn't one who felates Stalin and USSR, but one who learns from what the did right and wrong, and improves upon it.

Failures when dealing with the market (Titoism), and successes (Kadarism).

Failures like not antagonizing the libertarian socialists into the arms of the liberals.

Failures like peaceful coexistence, and not launching the missiles.

Luis Jenkins
Luis Jenkins

Stop calling yourself a ☭TANKIE☭ and become a proper ML then

Connor Phillips
Connor Phillips

1. no ML flag
2. anti-Soviet scum gets the bullet

Adrian Green
Adrian Green

I always thought Hammer and sickle was the ML flag on this board, given that the BO can't update the flags for some reason.

Oliver Ross
Oliver Ross

What would happen if capital succeeded in smashing the Republic of Soviets? There would set in an era of the blackest reaction in all the capitalist and colonial countries, the working class and the oppressed peoples would be seized by the throat, the positions of international communism would be lost.
Josef Stalin, Speech at The Seventh Enlarged Plenum of the E.C.C.I. (December 1926)
Never forget, that he was right.

Gabriel Cruz
Gabriel Cruz

2353843>>2353844

no signs of torture, trotsky even came up with the retarded claim that Stalin had invented a super drug that lead to all the confessions
we have foreign witnesses such as Joseph E. Davies and Lion Feuchtwanger that confirmed that were was no signs of torture and that the accused were in proper mental condition while making remarks about the foreign press talking complete shit that had nothing to do with what actually happened at court
yezhov was dealt with later, mistakes were made but they were corrected pretty much right away, don't have it on me now but there was already a great deal of revisions of wrong sentences in due time

Oliver Morgan
Oliver Morgan

absolutely

Grayson Hill
Grayson Hill

So, the best evidence they could come up with was the word of a defector to the US who was literally working for the FBI. Suffice it to say that he died way before any archival material surfaced that might've challenged his claims and the book this is sourced from isn't even a biography but a fucking memoir lmao 😂

Jaxon Gutierrez
Jaxon Gutierrez

I would also point out that according to wikipedia he was working abroad on behalf of the Soviet government from 1926 onwards and was, in fact, abroad in 1938 what a convenient year to defect when he was ordered to return to the USSR but defected to the US instead. His opinions on what was really happening inside the USSR during the purges have no relevance because there's no way he would have had direct knowledge on-the-ground knowledge of what was happening. It's not like his opinions on the USSR have any relevance post-1939 anyways.

Tyler Young
Tyler Young

*1938

Asher Evans
Asher Evans

Can we go back to the original question of wether the Soviet genocide of Poles is true or polish propaganda?

Brayden Gutierrez
Brayden Gutierrez

2353947
It was propaganda. Furr debunks Snyder at length on this point–who is basing himself off the work of Polish nationalists primarily. He works in the Hololdomor meem when its convenient but ignores it when conflicts with the Polish nat narrative such as when OUN soldiers committed genocide against ethnic poles in Ukraine

The issue of Polish imperialism/colonialism and the fact that its government was pretty much fascist itself is ignored by most mainstream historians as well.
http://libgen.io/book/index.php?md5=4F13589002A3DFA4B0139B332FEF54AD

Cameron Cruz
Cameron Cruz

<quoted myself
FML

Tyler Nguyen
Tyler Nguyen

purging fascists, trotskyites, foreign agents, and saboteurs was a mistake
Take that flag off liberal faggot

Isaiah Scott
Isaiah Scott

Yo why the fuck is Stalin about to kiss that dude lmao

Jayden Lee
Jayden Lee

I'm not talking about the holodomor(its been debunked ad nauseum) but the "Polish Operation" of the NKVD in 1938

Nicholas Garcia
Nicholas Garcia

Does grover furr have any good works debunking the inhumanity of soviet deportations of volga . germans and Lithuanians?

Dominic Sullivan
Dominic Sullivan

The one thing that Hitler was right about was that Slavs were subhumans who needed to be purged from the face of the planet.

Thomas Miller
Thomas Miller

Stop shitting up my thread

Ian Martin
Ian Martin

I know I'm the one making the claim but could it have really hurt you to look at the table of contents of the book I provided? There's also a fair bit in that book about Katyn which seems to be a cri de coeur of reactionaries everywhere these days. Also dealt with are the Polish nat narratives about the Warsaw uprising. And also facts that I guarantee you didn't know about how the Polish government-in-exile planned for a fascist anti-semitic government should they come to power after WWII

Wyatt Thomas
Wyatt Thomas

They deserved it for 1920

Brayden Smith
Brayden Smith

All the useful things that Slavs did, they did despite being Slavs.

John Harris
John Harris

Of course! USSR did absolutely nothing wrong! Believe me, my sources from USSR are true, not your bourgeoisie, imperialist lies!

Evan Kelly
Evan Kelly

Stalin did what was necessary to get socialism going
He was also a mass murderer
It worked

Dominic King
Dominic King

the invasion of Poland was fucked up but Poland was a run by a military Junta and most Poles supported the holocaust until it started happening to non-Jews. Poland got what it deserved imo.

Leo Jenkins
Leo Jenkins

most Poles supported the holocaust until it started happening to non-Jews
Oh, I see, this is why the Poles risked their own lifes to hide Jews and today are the most awarded nation in doing so. You write lies and you should feeel ashamed. Here is a quote from Emanuel Ringelblum, a Jew, who was living in Warsaw during the Nazi occupation
There is a belief, that antisemitism has risen during the war, that Poles are happy about Jew's misery. Attentive reader will find hundreds of documents which says otherwise. In reports from cities [in which Jews are hiding] such reader will find out, that Poles are sincere towards Jewish refugees. He will learn about hundreds of cases, in which peasents hid and fed the Jewish refugees.

Andrew Bell
Andrew Bell

Reported.

Matthew Stewart
Matthew Stewart

XD!

Aaron Myers
Aaron Myers

lets ban this guy because he criticizes USSR!
The absolute state of this place

Grayson Murphy
Grayson Murphy

Im not talking about the invasion of poland in this thread

Its seems to say here that the NKVD did want to genocide people of specific nationalities, just that they labelled people who weren't these nationalities as them in order to have an excuse to kill them.

Camden Morris
Camden Morris

Sounds great! Wish there would be more comrades like you on Holla Forums!

Dominic Moore
Dominic Moore

dealing with the market
successes
Holy shit, just kill yourself you fucking liberal.

Jason Williams
Jason Williams

Feel free to explain how to deal with the service industry in a planned, centralized manner, that doesn't result in a black market.

Brayden Bennett
Brayden Bennett

You measure supply and demand of services and consumer goods and plan accordingly? You can study consumer behavior at every university.

Bentley Hernandez
Bentley Hernandez

It seems like everyone save a few are ignoring the issue of the polish operation. I still cannot believe that NKVD would kill people based on their ethnicities, but I need proof that they never did, apart from deportations.

Zachary King
Zachary King

Jesus Christ, what a mess of apologism. And I can't even tell real fanatics from trolls.

Why in blue blazes would they ever paint putative gommies as victims, even if it's to smear other gommies? They can just have the gommies as the perps and the victims as poor innocent Nazi collaborators common everyday people who did nothing outside of the ordinary.

Stalin was a micromanager. Chances are that nothing Yezhov did didn't have Stalin literal signature on it. Moshe Lewin, a historian you ☭TANKIE☭s really should get acquainted with, wrote in The Soviet Century:
But the best illustration of what micromanagement meant in practice is to be found in numerous telegrams from Stalin (signed by him) to party or state agencies at the other end of the country, whether ordering someone to supply a building site with the nails it desperately needed, or build an internal railway line in a steelworks, or find some barbed wire - a product always in short supply in these years. Let us add that these countless messages always took the form of ultimata.
Not to mention that Stalin obviously kept an eye on Yezhov all the time, given his ultimate fate. He was Stalin's flunkie and then his scapegoat.

it's 1930's and nobody knows how to extract information otherwise
The problem is the veracity of the information, and in this case, the fact that it didn't matter. And lets not forget Tukhachevsky's confession document had fucking blood stains on it.

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