Esperanto

I have never seen the mainstream media push Esperanto prior to this retarded clusterfuck of a thread.

Also, there's no way shadowy-anti-soviet financier man is more famous than William Shatner. Way to go, New York Liems.

Esperanto was popular with cosmopolitan internationalists during the early Soviet Union. In the early years of the Soviet Union, the state supported it because there were a lot of Esperanto speakers in Eastern and Western Europe. The goal was to spread the revolution westwards.
Stalin did unfortunately learn some Esperanto but he quickly realized that it's goals went counter to the current necessities of socialism in one state and had the leaders of the movement put down. This is partly what helped stabilized the USSR from foreign influence.

Esperanto was never socailist. It has never been adopted by an actual socailist state. Some Republicans spoke it during the Spanish Civil War to communicate with outsiders. Unfortunately the local mayor of Madrid was executed by the fascists and he just happened to be an Esperantist.

Latin and Cyrillic character sets are also too Eurocentric

I think Tito was fluent in Esperanto too and allowed it to be taught in Yugoslavia as an elective in secondary education and universities. Tito probably pushed for it because he knew Stalin was against it.

The Neoliberal Guardian just had a piece about a local British Esperanto group last week.

theguardian.com/science/2017/dec/06/saluton-the-surprise-return-of-esperanto

Even without you're tankié flag I still know it's you. Honestly m8 at this point I think you're falseflagging in order to promote Esperanto. You make more threads about it than actual Esperantists.

These posts are all so fucking retarded that I can do nothing but greentext them. Holy fuck you're so fucking stupid. If you're not genuinely this retarded and you're just pretending, then you should immediately cease.

This is your brain on idpol

You sound brainwashed to be honest. Not everyone who opposes Esperanto is a ☭TANKIE☭. Take a breath and realize that Esperanto is an imperialist language itself. It was made to destabilize local natural languages.
There is no such thing as linguistic imperialism by the way. English is the world language because of its inherent scientific and literary value. Even if the US falls, the Chinese or EU will continue to use English.

It's the same fucking guy with the tankié flag who shitposts about it.
Literally the exact opposite.
No. I already told you to stop pretending to be retarded.

I'm sorry, but this is what you're literately saying and you have the audacity to call others retarded?

Esperanto is infinitely less culturally 'organic', to the extent that even means anything, than English. Is it a shame to lose the local elements of language, sure, to an extent, but they can still be remembered as history and the benefits outweigh it by a huge margin. There's a reason why God had to fuck up our universal language before we could rise to challenge his power.

No, I'm saying you're retarded for other reasons that has little to do with Esperanto.

Esperanto isn't supposed to be organic or culturally authentic, because it's not supposed to substitute anything, it's merely to act as a universal second language.

For a language to substitute real languages, it has to feel organic. Esperanto feels mechanical and robotic. Human brains aren't machines meant to speak genderless languages where verbs don't change for person and everything fits mechanically. It feels sterile and cold.

Uh no that poster is entirely correct. I went to a scientific conference in France, I was among a tiny amount of native English speakers there. Everybody spoke English however.
Like it or not English is a lingua Franca. Transition to Esperanto is completely redundant and pointless

Exactly, the stereotypes about the proud Frenchman are a Hollywood invention. The French just like the Dutch, Brazilians, and Arabs all learn English and speak it with each other. Even when an American is not present.
English is the universal language. Esperanto is a retarded hobby like Minecraft but even more autistic.

!Xóõ is better. It literally means “the People’s Language.”

So why the hell would we need Esperanto when English performs the same function but better?

Being Esperantists are LARPers.

You mean like English?

Scientists speak English because educated people learn English, that's because English is the world language through imperialism. It has nothing to do with its inherent benefits.

Because English doesn't. It's difficult and expensive to learn, that's why mostly educated urbanites speak it throughout the world, and while native languages are dying because it's more economically viable to teach the kids English then their native language.

People voluntarily learning a language is imperialism now?

There is no such thing as linguistic imperialism.
id-pol get out.

Can you explain to me what's wrong with this? Not to mention that if Esperanto were ever what you wanted it to be the exact same thing would be happening because if the whole world speaks one language why would you not prioritise it?

Exactly this! People would spend all their energy learning Esperanto and mastering it.
Esperanto may take a couple of years less to learn, but at the end regardless of what language is chosen children will spend their childhoods focusing on the world language and ignoring their useless tribal tongues.
Major languages are expanding as the world becomes more connected. That's a good thing!

Well, idk about that ;)
Joking but in all seriousness, when sitting at a dinner table with a Frenchman, a Norwegian, and a couple of Germans, it simply makes sense to speak English since it’s in common

Or could it have to do with the well known fact that the US produced the most scientific publications in the world? Not even spouting American exceptionalism here since immigrants and US green are holders are significant contributors. But nevertheless how is the US exerting imperialism on France, Germany, Sweden, and Norway?

I mean it's not easy but it's certainly not as difficult as Chinese.

Every Indian call center worker ever would like a word with you.

W-what about bisexuals (or pansexuals as this woiuld probably call them)?

They see English as a useful international language. That's why it was put in the constitution in the 1950s rather than a made up language like Esperanto.
People learn English because it's useful, not because someone puts a gun on their head. English is the world language. Anything worth doing is done through this rich literary language. Such as shitpost on imageboards. Like not everyone here is a burger.

The most common language in India is English, you dolt.

My bad, it's the second. But still. That's also due to Hindi being enforced by 'imperialist' methods by the government. See how this is just an endless rabbit hole?

People voluntarily getting a job is wage-slavery now?

It's not idpol to state a fact. It's just a coincidence that the world language is the language of the current imperialist superpower, right?

Because people shouldn't lose their native language because Capitalism demands they use a foreign one. Esperanto is different because an international auxillary language is supposed to be used as that, a second language for communication to others, on an equal footing. It's not designed to replace. It wouldn't be the same because by its nature it is easy to learn, therefor you don't have to sacrifice your native language for it.

Why would they do that unless they plan on talking to people throughout the world? Why would it take their entire childhood to learn Esperanto?
Nice cultural chauvinism.
That's not an inherent benefit of English. An IAL makes even more sense when it comes to science since it allows everyone to exchange ideas and research on an equal footing.
They're not, they're also not countries in danger of losing their language. And besides the Nordic country, most people in those countries aren't fluent in English.

You mean the bourgeoisie?

How is this an endless rabbit hole? Hindi being imposed on the Indian population is just as shitty as English on the world population. The language of the ruling class has always been imposed on the people.

And it became that way because of imperialism. I'm not saying everyone should forget English or that Esperanto should be the only international language, but it is ignoranant to deny that language is affected by imperialism.

you sound like an incel

Not an argument.

He is just in a cult. He is unable to make reasonable defense for his id-pol so he resorts to babbling like a Scientologist about his Esperanto.

its not retarded, its just that its a language designed around nerds, not people. legitimate languages have certain kinks that make them not sound retarded and actually flow better, but esperanto in an attempt to keep it pure keeps the kinks out. this makes it unnatural, it makes it awkward, and it makes it a meme language that is oly really good for linguists.

Comparing modern Marxism with Esperanto is ridiculous. Anti-capitalists are out there on the streets winning the hearts and minds of real people. Esperanto is an outdated ideological trash from the 19th century. Esperanto only is spoken on paper. Marxism is spoken by the hearts and mind of the proleteriat.

youre trying to compare learning languages with market exploitation like incels compare human relationships with market exploitation.

esperanto never gained traction because it simply doesnt have a good background to gain traction, and its just not possible to use the language without sounding meme-y. a constructed language can work, but it has to be like an actual legitimate language, not some eurocentric spergfest.

Esperanto did spread throughout the cosmopolitan bourgeois. From the 1890s until the 1940s it was somewhat of a mass movement. But it was corrupt from the beginning. Founded on Zionist ideals, the movement was never going to fit in with the goals of the Soviet Union. After Stalin purged the leadership of the movement, most Esperantists fleed to Central Europe. Where unfortunately Hitler targeted Esperanto speakers, including the offspring of the langauge's creator, lol.
Esperanto was tied with the left, but that left were social democrats like Luxemburg or the SDP, or retarded anarchists.

In the past few years, Esperanto has risen back from the dead in the backs of id-pols who cry about "muh linguistic imperialism" by supporting a language created by a Zionist imperialist.

What a pisspoor reply. You don't even bother to say how.

I've never met an Esperantist irl and I haven't studied it in months.
Please, clearly show the logical gap in my reasoning.
Exactly what identity am I making a political issue out of?
You're the one who made the fucking thread.

In linguistic terms tell me what these kinks are and how they make language more effective.

Languages are directly connected to market exploitation. Why do you think the majority of non-first language speakers learn English? They're either forced to as a kid by a public school or they do it on their own, and the reason for both is almost entirely in order to compete on the market better.

Why do you keep repeating this fucking bullshit lie even after multiple people have BTFO you about it multiple times? Are you mentally ill and don't care about the truth, are you chronic shitposter, are you literally retarded and incapable of learning?

Not very familiar with Esperanto but the problem with English is that you can't tell how words are pronounced by just reading the word, and vice versa.

You can with practice. If children can learn English, so can immigrants.

Not sure if serious because of that image but I regularly see native speakers mispronounce words or being unsure of the pronounciation.

but who gives a shit? That isn't even close enough to a problem necessitating actual socialist response.

This! Socialists have no reason in getting involved in the natural processes of language. The international proletariat has chosen English freely out of their own volition. Any changes to the status quo must come from their own will, not the will of some online id-pol succdems.

More or less what I was thinking, I guess. I mean they didn't freely choose the language but that shouldn't matter to any person living within our reality, as people don't freely choose most of the things they do.
But yeah there is no advantage to this worth the huge amount of labour that would be required, might as well ask Holla Forums to produce nuclear ordinance lmao.

exceptions to grammar rules, pure and simple.
they make a language more pleasant to the ear and easier to speak, and they really aren't too hard to pick up. Esperanto sounds like a mistake (not ugly, just wrong), and that's the main reason no one bothers to learn it and would prefer English or Spanish or French or Mandari or Russia or Arabic or whatever.

is that so? because the most competitive languages on the market to learn are mandarin and german, but I don't really see them as being taught widespread in schools.

English words have inconsistent pronunciation is a big problem in learning it. It's not a problem if you're a native speaker, but guess what, most people aren't.

What fucking world do you live in?

Again, give an example.

I didn't know Africans or Latin Americans had an economic motive to learn Mandarin or German. If you're part of certain professions then learning those languages are very useful, but if you're just a regular prole, English is what you need.

Yeah well in high school I had issues with Spanish accents and feminine/masculine words but you don't see me complaining on some taco-making forum about how bullshit Spanish is for arbitrarily deciding certain words areally the way they are. For example, why is it "LA mano", when words ending in O are typically masculine (El boligrafo). Why have accents when the "normal" word would be just fine? I just accept them, as we all should, as language forming organically.

Exactly. Language is the only natural imperfect relic from our more naturalistic phase as hunter gatherers.
Stripping real languages away from people is one of the worst ways of alienating man from his biological self.

Does this have anything to do with Marx purportedly being a "dialectical naturalist"? I saw a meme saying it was a brain tier above dialectical materialism and I am ever so slightly spooked(read excited) that my pet philosophy was actually a proto version of a better philosophy.
Other than that I don't see how languages being natural makes them better because of that, other than the other use of natural as in "comes naturally", while you seem to be using it as "coming from nature" and furthermore tying them to alienation, which I just don't see.

Remember, 1) change IS nature, 2) philosophy of AK-47 applies to proles. It has to be easy to learn and robust. The capability of English to borrow words is unparalleled. The second-most robust is Russian.

Good thing Esperanto tries to do away with all inconsistencies like that in order to create an easy to learn language.

There has never been an Esperantist that wanted to eliminate natural languages from the world.

All languages have the equal capability to borrow words; how much the word stays unchanged depends on the borrowing language's phonotactics.

Antiesperantotankie, I'm sorry I called you retarded/mentally ill. Your opinions might be really stupid but that doesn't mean I should abuse you. Sometimes we forget that there's a human on the other side who doesn't like being insulted as much as anyone else.

user I…

Why do you keep shitposting about esperanto every month tho?

I am not the only person who speaks about Esperanto here. Esperantists are like any other id-pol liberal. They should be mocked and comrades should be educated.
For some reason, mainstream media has been obsessed with Esperanto lately. The NYTImes and TheGuardian are two major publications in just one month. The Verge had a piece before and so did NPR.

sauce pls

can you at least explain what you mean by idpol??? its not just a buzzword that means "thing I dont like"

none of these morons will explain anything, all they have are ridiculous straw men that get repeated every single time this topic comes up. then these straw men get btfo, but they still continue to make these idiotic threads with the same idiotic arguments.

what the fuck? judaism is a religion not a fucking race and 80% of jews today,if not more,are fuckig white.

Identity politics: Political movements and ideas based around things such as race, LGBT+, nationality etc. Immaterial things that ultimately change nothing.
Idpol can be alright when combined with other things such as class politics but it should never be the focus. Who gives a fuck who can marry and who can't when the bourgeoisie still hold power?

The fact that you have to explain how "ghoti" is supposed to be pronounced should give you a hint that's not how english spelling works. English spelling is very systematic from a historical perspective, it's not random.

Who the hell is actually pushing Esperanto anywhere in the world? As far as I know everyone's realized Lingua Francas have always been a thing and sperging out about English being the current one is retarded. Besides, no one is calling for people to forget their native languages, just to have one at the ready to speak with foreigners as we live in a highly interconnected society, the ones that ARE on the way out are oral-only dialects and creoles (basically anachronisms in this day and age) that have never been that widespread and in all likelihood would have gone extinct on their own.
Italy, my own country, is a good example of what will likely happen in the future on a global scale. There's one form of more or less standardized "Italian" (of course it has regional variations but you get those everywhere) that everybody understands and on the side each region has its own dialect, for all intents and purposes a parallel language, that is alive and kicking in the 21st century. Seriously, the "muh american imperialism" retards are sperging out over nothing.

It isn't. I've barely ever heard anything about Esperanto from the MSM

Because it's wacky and niche; the MSM loves covering that type of shit.

Except we've established the MSM never fucking talks about Esperanto.

Agreed. Languages are not dying. New languages and dialects are always forming. Over 90% of all life on Earth that has ever existed has died and the planet is doing just fine. Languages will continue to grow and thrive even under a world under "muh murkan imperialism". Languages survived and thrived under other lingua francas such as Latin and Persian.

doubt.jpg

Oh, okay.

It's becoming popular recently with DuoLingo and people like it a lot as it is one of the last ways you can actually find friends and feel part of a community. Saying that they push it is a bit of stretch, all the articles I've read about it, including this, present it like some kind of zoo animal that a few hobbyists use but nothing serious. They couldn't even get a grammatically correct title, it should be "Feliĉaj ferioj!"

If you want to be part of a community, join a local cadre and work for a better future. Esperanto is just an edgy id-pol anti-American autistic train wreck.

Esperanto has a long working-class history, it was popular among workers who had no access to foreign language education but took international solidarity seriously. Many would correspond using Esperanto, it was actually encouraged. I still think it would have value as there is a ton of leftist material that is not available in English and most workers usually have very bad English skills. Esperanto is much easier to learn especially for those who are already short of time and energy. Not to mention that unlike English, Esperanto is actually pronounceable.

See:
nodo50.org/esperanto/artik83en.htm

Are you actually trying to make people like Esperanto?

pick one

Esperanto has sounds difficult for most non-Europeans such as zh and r.

Being anti-American for edgelord points is the most vacuous liberal sort of politics.

The language of a human group is one of its means of production

Advocating for English use is furthering American imperialist interests. It's actually everything you accuse Esperanto of. Do you have any idea how native cultures degrade right now because people prefer the American cultural commodities to their home made ones? They watch Hollywood propaganda, read books written in English (they are rarely translated and slowly), use words from English, learn behaviour of American TV shows and dream the American dream of capitalist exploitation. Language far from being politically or economically neutral.

...

Tonal languages can go burn in a dumpster fire.

Am I supposed to trust this retarded infographic?

Esperanto critics always with the great arguments.
Then there is always the

...

user, you cannot honestly tell me that Esperanto looks and sounds like total shit.

The point of Esperanto is merely to have an easy-to-learn lingua franca.

I've never seen so many spooks in my life.

Good thing we already have English

Also, the far off history of something has no real bearing on whether it's good or not, yes English was spread by imperialism but that's totally irrelevant.

And the living, modern use of English is purely based on capitalist imperialism. People don't learn English out of any great love for the language itself, they learn it in order to speak with American businessmen (and British businessmen to a lesser extent).

Are proles in Holland learning English to talk to American and British businessmen?

Yes.

Or, at least, that's the reason for the emphasis on English. Whether everyone gets that use out of it is neither here nor there.

Proles in Holland learn English because they're literally forced to as kids. If they learn it as adults it will mostly be to communicate with tourists or foreign businessmen.

English is an imperialist language. We are in need of a new more internationalist lingua franca. That new lingua franca, however, will not be Esperanto. Esperanto is dead. Only language nerds learn it. A new lingua franca must be simple and easy to learn. Its pronounciation and grammar must be as easy to grasp as possible. It writing system must also be as easy to learn and as easy to write as possible. I'm thinking about a syllabic system or an alphabetic system akin to that of IPA in which phonology determines the spelling of a word.

Esperanto is more alive than the perfect language you envisioned that doesn't even exist yet.

check
check
check
check

All true for Esperanto. Turns out it is the most suitable auxiliary language after all.

Esperanto is ridiculously easy to learn, you fuckwit. Maybe you're simply a monolingual anglo-mutt.

I don't think Esperanto is as optimal to speak as it could be, and I'm saying this as an Esperantist. There's a lot of consonant clusters and consonants in particular that are hard for a lot of people to speak.

Nothing will ever be optimal.

wtf

200 shekels have been deposited into your account.

More like Asberganto, amirite?

You see Chinese characters occasionally in written Korean because it was historically written with them and the introduction of Hangul still hasn't managed to eradicate all of it.

That graph is fairly accurate. Everyone will be different but it's only sensible that the languages closest to your native will be easiest to learn.

English has such a strong foundation I wonder if its replacement with a more intuitive conlang would actually be less efficient. All the materials are in place to make English truly universal, with Esperanto we'd need to restart.
I could buy the argument if it were proved that English and especially English was responsible for the deaths of native languages but I've seen nothing of the sort.

Exactly. Muh language inequality is id-pol nonsense.

Getting rid of all that propaganda Hollywood movies and garbage TV shows is an advantage, not a disadvantage.

You realise, that the positive full-statement answer to that question renders the verb, "mean" with the third-person marker, "-s"?

Also,

Kill yourself.

Makes me sick

If anything it will and has done the exact opposite. Not everywhere that speaks English is because of the US, India for example. I've met Indians at university, a lot of who speak it natively with another language or two and they hardly associate it with just the US. it's just something they spoke growing up that happened to be understood around the world where whatever local language they spoke was useless to anyone outside their home region. There are plenty of Europeans that speak english with each other as a common language where the US never even comes to mind, as they grew up speaking it. The same goes for Spanish, I don't really associate it with any one country but rather large parts of the world. The more people that speak English (or any language) the less it will be associated with any one place or culture. This is Esperanto's main problem, no one wants to learn a language with few speakers, especially when it won't improve their material conditions (jobs, culture, fun, travel, etc.); the only way the language will ever flourish is if you can somehow attach it to a popular culture. Look at Japanese, it's pretty useless outside of Japan but there are millions of autists learning it the world over just so they can read comic books and watch porn.

Not even a burger, but English is already the lingua franca of the world. It's more convenient to just use english instead of trying to force a new language, just like build socialism on top of already developed capitalism instead of destroying all houses, factories, roads and farms to start over again.

And so what? Does this logic similarly mean that if the revolution succeeds we'll smash all the factories just so we can start over, because they were built under wage exploitation? Will we set the billion dollar jets alight instead of use them to defend the revolution because they were designed for imperialism?

Indians learn English because of their colonial past, not because they found it convenient and voluntarily decided to.

Today factories are designed to fully exploit the worker, of course they will have to be transformed. The same goes for English, it is mainly used for commerce and it shows, it's very hard to read it and not feel like that something is being sold to you. Language is a very real problem for radicals and using English that has been so thoroughly fitted to the demands of capital is a major handicap. No wonder all the good theoretical works come from outside the Anglosphere.

English was already the world's lingua franca when Burgerland became a superpower. English became the international language because of British imperialism and colonialism.

There is literally and 100% unironically nothing wrong with Eurocentrism.

...

Mi volas Kontraux-Esperanta ☭TANKIE☭s halti. Mi ne komprenas la malamo pro esperanto, ecx se gxi ne placxas al ili kaj gxi estas plej-parte senutila.

English being the lingua franca isn't some institution that took time to build up and will take time to destroy. In one generation it could completely change, fuck in one year it could, and it will. Once the American Empire collapses the next superpower will further its language; one privilege of being the ruler is that you don't have to learn another language. The only reason to keep English around is complacency, to change it would be very easy, especially changing it to an easy language like Esperanto.

I'm on your side on this one, but no, no it wouldn't, not at all.

The only thing keeping English in its place where it's not the first language or becoming it is a constant source of people learning it. The infrastructure to learn it (schools and the internet) will exist regardless of the language. The only thing that would have to be replaced would be the teachers, which wouldn't be a significant task. It's like switching from facebook to google+, it's not difficult to do, it's just not done because of the network effect.

So you didn't learn it, ok

The other two points are accurate

can I be straight and gay for moot at the same time?

there's no other way with this faggot

moot is a cutie