Let's settle this once and for all in light of current happening

Jackson Rivera
Jackson Rivera

Let's settle this once and for all in light of current happening: is Robert Mugabe /ourguy/ or not?

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All urls found in this thread:
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/09/robert-mugabes-son-pours-champagne-over-45000-watch-in-snapchat-video-7065494/
https://return2source.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/new-democracy-zanu-pf-zimbabwes-revolutionary-path/
https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/dpkgpz/former-yugoslavia-lavish-new-years-parties-tito
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6W_w4OYaAw
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article184547943.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/12/how-to-kill-a-country/302845/
https://nyti.ms/2hy5kxk
https://mobile.twitter.com/nyashanekutenda/status/930623616835833856/video/1
Jonathan Lee
Jonathan Lee

100% /ourguy/ no questions asked. He is correct enough to understand the real problem in the world is white people.

Michael Nguyen
Michael Nguyen

Postin' in a false flag thread.

Hunter Sanchez
Hunter Sanchez

http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/09/robert-mugabes-son-pours-champagne-over-45000-watch-in-snapchat-video-7065494/

Lucas Price
Lucas Price

It's a legitimate question. Mugabe leaded a successful national liberationist struggle.

Jacob Bennett
Jacob Bennett

If you are a ☭TANKIE☭ yes.

Angel Bennett
Angel Bennett

Zimbabwe never dies

Jonathan Mitchell
Jonathan Mitchell

He WAS /ourguy/, but he isn't anymore. Mugabe was a Maoist back in the 70s during the Rhodesian bush war, but he later became a reactionary-tier black nationalist, closer to Farrakhan than Fanon. He famously refered to himself as the "black Hitler."

On the other hand, the land reform he enacted overwhelmingly benefited black proles and peasants:

"A quick look at the class composition of the beneficiaries of the FTLRP demonstrates its revolutionary character. Scoones’ study finds that 49.9% of those who received land were ordinary Zimbabweans from rural areas; in other words, peasants. 18.3% of land recipients were “unemployed or in low-paid jobs in regional towns, growth points and mines,” and 6.7% were former farm workers; the Zimbabwean proletariat. Civil servants, who largely make up the Zimbabwean petty-bourgeoisie, were 16.5% of the land recipients. The two categories comprising the lowest percentage of land recipients were business persons, at a paltry 4.8%, and security service personnel, at a mere 3.7%."

This ☭TANKIE☭ wrote an interesting article about the positives of Mugabe (read it with a grain of salt):

https://return2source.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/new-democracy-zanu-pf-zimbabwes-revolutionary-path/

Caleb Rivera
Caleb Rivera

nationalist
corrupt as hell
protects private property
land reform based on race over class
chased away most of the white farmers in favor of black farmers who couldn't use the land for shit
has let the Chinese recolonize his country
can't fix his country's economy, has only made it worse
homophobic
hates western humanism
calls himself a "black Hitler"
cleansed out urban slums, operation "taking out the trash"

Fuck this guy.

Adam Cruz
Adam Cruz

This is Allende all over again. :'(

Regardless of our criticisms of Mugabe (and there are a ton of valid criticisms), the CIA's dirty hands are deep in this honey pot. They want Africa. Granted, Mugabe did sell Zimbabwe out to Chinese Imperialism, but it looks like Amerika will win out against the Chinese. Let's not forget that Zimbabwe has one of the highest literacy rates in the world. Let's also not forget that Mugabe's land reform, although flawed, overwhelmingly benefited rural blacks. Nuance is key in this situation.

Chase Wright
Chase Wright

son
wew

Jaxson Gomez
Jaxson Gomez

https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/dpkgpz/former-yugoslavia-lavish-new-years-parties-tito

Carter Mitchell
Carter Mitchell

This is entirely about the West, particularly AmeriKKKa, trying to get into Africa.

Think about it. Why does Amerika have troops in Niger, and is most likely going to send more troops all throughout the Sahel region (from Senegambia to Djibouti)? This is entirely about a buildup to war with China.

Hudson Nguyen
Hudson Nguyen

Are whites still living here while Mugabe is fucking the whole country up? I saw videos of them in Harare or private schools in the country but idk.

Andrew Taylor
Andrew Taylor

Literally national liberation went wrong.
Proof that kill whitey is bullshit
Don't fucking defend him. Land reforms were so so, the rest was trash. Especially what he did with zimbawe currency

Justin Hall
Justin Hall

No.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6W_w4OYaAw

Benjamin Phillips
Benjamin Phillips

Tito is wasted in that photo

Andrew Miller
Andrew Miller

Those land reforms weren't "so so" for those struggling black peasants..

Ryan Nelson
Ryan Nelson

Imperialism IS white people, idiots. Anyone from the Third World can tell you that. Africans, indigenous "Amerikans"/indigenous Turtle Islanders, Palestinians, and all other peoples can tell you that.

Ayden Wright
Ayden Wright

t. canadian
/leftpol/index.html

Matthew Morris
Matthew Morris

brown people nationalism
Same spooky shit but different cultural context for sure. Maoism was a mistake

Nicholas Cooper
Nicholas Cooper

Thank you kind sir for all these rare Titos, these will make fine additions to my collection. I shall give you one in return.

Parker Reyes
Parker Reyes

Maoists
/ourguys/
lolno

Wyatt Butler
Wyatt Butler

lavish
are you shitting me? That looks like the average middle-upper class party

That picture in particular is just pathetic. A bottle of wine, a bottle of recarbonated water, a plate of countryside sausages, a bowl of apples or whatever, and those flavorless crunchy sticks
That's basically what old people with $200 pensions put on the table in Eastern Europe when you drop by uninvited.
A balloon, some confetti and some spruce twigs taped to the curtains, barely any jewelry
If they didn't label the officials in picture, I would think it was just a family photo with a guy who looks surprisingly like Tito,

Lucas Anderson
Lucas Anderson

Seriously. They look cheap as fuck.

Jayden Thompson
Jayden Thompson

i love ethnostates so as long as they're not white

Juan Wood
Juan Wood

Source on CIA involvement?

Bentley Ross
Bentley Ross

Tito had parties
wtf I'm an anarkiddie now

Matthew Thompson
Matthew Thompson

Long story short, it's not a black or white issue (no pun intended). We ought to honor the gains made by the anti-colonial struggle in the former Rhodesia while at the same time criticizing the shortcomings of Mugabe, ZANU-PF and the Zimbabwean state.

At the end of the day, the genocidal, neo-colonial, semi-fascist Ian Smith regime was overthrown by leftist black revolutionaries, and many of the advances they made for common black Africans will be reversed.

Charles Allen
Charles Allen

Nope, I'm just speculating. If it is CIA, it'll come out eventually. It seems pretty obvious though. The CIA are fucking dirty.

Jeremiah Martinez
Jeremiah Martinez

He was never /ourguy/, even from the beginning. Mugabe and Nkomo hated each other over which dominant black ethnic group was more worthy to govern, as well as which powerful state capitalist empire would be a better ally. He was always a tyrant, but not always a fucking retard. Throughout the 80s and 90s, Zimbabwe actually had a prosperous economy and was a stable country (aside from the early 80s ethnic cleansing of people who belonged to Nkomo's ethnicity) with pretty high standards in living, health, and education. In fact, Zimbabwe still has Africa's highest adult literacy rate (in the low 90s). It was still a sound country even after Mugabe officially became a dictator in 1987. Rhodesia's former leader Ian "I Believe In Equality But Blacks Shouldn't Rule Africa" Smith was allowed to live in Zimbabwe and even criticize Mugabe; he only left for South Africa two years before he died for medical reasons. However, Mugabe was and still is basically an authoritarian succdem, as he supports private property, even though it takes a really long time to establish a private business in Zimbabwe. Thing started to go downhill in the 2000s when his overspending on [social services and] military intervention in the Second Congo War and his super shitty land """reform""" policy (that involved kicking out white farmers and giving farms to blacks who had no education in farming) led to hyperinflation. Now Zimbabwe is in total shit and Mugabe has far overstayed his welcome, even in terms of his age (the corrupt retard is 93).

Andrew Stewart
Andrew Stewart

not taking a form of socialism you hate over capitalism

William Barnes
William Barnes

Much of that is true, but you left out the part about Mugabe being an anti-revisionist Maoist guerrilla backed by Red China. Nkomo wanted to sell Zimbabwe out to Soviet social-imperialism and make it another one of its satellite states. Granted, Mugabe did the same thing for capitalist China, but he was once a committed leftist. It's not all sour grapes: his land reform put a huge dent in white power in Africa, moreso than Nelson Mandela, who allowed many white and Asian landowners to keep their property and wealth.

Jacob Foster
Jacob Foster

not taking a form of socialism you hate over capitalism
implying there's any difference between the two

Nicholas Lopez
Nicholas Lopez

Doesn't seem obvious to me, because I struggle to see where the CIA has leverage within the Zimbabwe army. There aren't ties to old elites or anything.

What little I've found in porky media makes it out to be a power struggle between Mugabe and the chief of his army, who doesn't exactly seem like the neoliberal type. Wish I knew more.

Ethan Hall
Ethan Hall

I agree that Mugabe should be overthrown by legitimate leftists, but it's not as though the common people are behind this. It's a military coup, a power struggle with one of his generals, not a grassroots insurrection. This is nothing to celebrate. Amerikkka will soon have control of Zimbabwe and her resources.

Oliver Wright
Oliver Wright

Who cares? It’s not as if the common people of Zimbabwe are benefiting from Mugabe’s rule. I doubt things could get much worse for them.

Jaxson Anderson
Jaxson Anderson

That's easy for you to say. This will have major repercussions for many poor and working class black Zimbabweans, many of whom would stand behind Mugabe. You might not care, but they do.

Alexander Robinson
Alexander Robinson

self proclaimed maoist becomes reactionary class collaborationist nationalist who sells out to imperialists as long as they're not white
fascinating development.

Christian Rogers
Christian Rogers

Mugabe is NAZBOL

Anthony Robinson
Anthony Robinson

Just because they support Mugabe doesn’t mean that he has done anything for them. Plenty of proles support Trump, that doesn’t make him a revolutionary figure.

Asher Wilson
Asher Wilson

http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article184547943.html

Upcoming coup?

Camden Hernandez
Camden Hernandez

Trips of anti-tank truth

Adrian Stewart
Adrian Stewart

I could have sworn this thread had an anchor on it

William Campbell
William Campbell

Lmao it looks like a wedding reception rented out at a place that has an open casket scheduled in the next room at the same time

Jaxson Perry
Jaxson Perry

Remember: always do the opposite of what maoists say.

Daniel Diaz
Daniel Diaz

have a nice day :)

Angel Ward
Angel Ward

MUGABE! MY BOY! MY SON!!!

Jordan Scott
Jordan Scott

Uphold Marxism-Sparrowism!

Dylan Morris
Dylan Morris

Didn't his land reforms cause famines because he confiscated land from competent white farmers and gave it to illiterate blacks who would eat seeds instead of planting them?

Brayden Taylor
Brayden Taylor

Idpol: not even once.

Sebastian Clark
Sebastian Clark

The only reason whites should return to Zimbabwe is to slot more floppies. They have a better change now that the Soviet Union shit the bed.

Jose Perez
Jose Perez

i'd like a better source for this than a /pol/ tier screenshot of some article headlines.

Parker Wilson
Parker Wilson

I remember I bothered to look up the source of these articles once and 2 out 3 where literally worse than Breitbart

Kayden Young
Kayden Young

is Robert Mugabe /ourguy/
No. He's you.
Have a look in the mirror.
It's pretty disgusting.

Caleb Butler
Caleb Butler

robert "Kill whitey" Mugabe
robert "/pol/s worst nightmare" Mugabe
robert "Black hitler" Mugabe
robert "reverse Holocaust" Mugabe
robert "The african Mao" Mugabe

Aiden Young
Aiden Young

I can find better sources, but you won't like them because they will all be neoliberal.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/12/how-to-kill-a-country/302845/
Regardless, I think itwo basic facts are pretty clear.
Rhodesia was a net exporter of food
Zimbabwe is food insecure and plagued by famine.

Parker Gray
Parker Gray

The problem was that he didn't industrialize because of a severe case of mautism.

Christian Gray
Christian Gray

No.

James Sullivan
James Sullivan

Great Lessons in Leftist history
It turns out farming is actually extremely difficult and people can't pick it up at the drop of a hat.

Jace Nguyen
Jace Nguyen

According to NYT, already done and diddly

Zimbabwe’s Military, in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of Mugabe https://nyti.ms/2hy5kxk

Parker Torres
Parker Torres

Why is this allowed?

Nicholas Nelson
Nicholas Nelson

OP IS ZIMBABWEAN MILITARY CONFIRMED
he wanted to know if Mugabe should be removed or no

Jacob Cruz
Jacob Cruz

Tito off that Lean in that pic

Adrian Cruz
Adrian Cruz

Hopefully Mugabe gets a shallow grave
https://mobile.twitter.com/nyashanekutenda/status/930623616835833856/video/1

Bentley Mitchell
Bentley Mitchell

looks comfy as fuck tbh

Lincoln Barnes
Lincoln Barnes

“This is a correction of a state that was careening off the cliff,” Chris Mutsvangwa told Reuters. “It’s the end of a very painful and sad chapter in the history of a young nation, in which a dictator, as he became old, surrendered his court to a gang of thieves around his wife.”
Zimbabwe’s opposition Movement for Democratic Change called for a peaceful return to constitutional democracy, adding it hoped the military intervention would lead to the “establishment of a stable, democratic and progressive nation state”.

I hope they can democratically pass the harsh but necessary liberalization reforms soon.

Brody Sullivan
Brody Sullivan

like dis if u cry ervytim

Nicholas Cooper
Nicholas Cooper

establishment of a stable, democratic and progressive nation state

Gabriel Hughes
Gabriel Hughes

that flag
Turns out the Japanese were white all along.

Logan Lopez
Logan Lopez

the land reform he enacted overwhelmingly benefited black proles and peasants
benefited
The collapse of the agricultural sector benefited no one.

Carter Torres
Carter Torres

Dude before Mugabe the country produced enough food to feed the continent of Africa. After Mugabe they can't even feed themselves and have to rely on food aid. Industrialization or lack thereof has nothing to do with it since it didn't happen before Mugabe either.

Jordan Bell
Jordan Bell

No, but I can't see it getting any better even if he's removed.

Anthony Morris
Anthony Morris

Large scale collectivized agriculture is the only land reform that works tbqh.
The old crook will be replaced by new crooks, who previously served the old crook.

Austin Russell
Austin Russell

This is Allende all over again
Don't you dare compare ol' Sal to that reactionary black nationalist

Isaiah Anderson
Isaiah Anderson

Ok, so, from what I read on Al Jazeera, the coups seems to be the work of general Constantino Chiwenga, who had just come back from a trip to China per the NYT article here . So more likely a Chinese backed coup than a CIA one.

Jordan Gomez
Jordan Gomez

I remember in past readings I did about the land reform most of it went to military officers of Mugabe who never did much of anything with it. Beyond the obvious value of a bunch of farm land they had no real education in farming but more importantly not much time either. There was no real way for them to hire on people to farm their land since at the time most of the people with those skills had been the white farmers who had their lands seized and were escaping to wherever else they could.
A more intelligent thing would have been to have the farmers train others in return for a guaranteed stipend from the government + a fair purchase of their land. This land then could have been given to the allies of Mugabe who would then hire on either the old white farmers or new black farmers (or hopefully a mix of both) to farm their land while they enjoyed the benefits of success in a deeply corrupt society. Instead the fields went unattended, the equipment became useless, no knowledge was ever gained, and the entire country starved.
Mugabe "fired" the vice president who was the Military's guy. Also probably the point of contact for most chinese business. There is a lot of worry from what I've read about Mugabe's current wife. Any coup without a doubt had the okay with Chinese interests given to their increasingly control over the economy.

Cameron Nguyen
Cameron Nguyen

please accept this offering of a balloon oh god of fruit bowls

Nathaniel Edwards
Nathaniel Edwards

"/pol/s worst nightmare
"Black hitler”
Pick one

Asher Martinez
Asher Martinez

Yeah and before Castro every Cuban was a billionaire. We've heard it all before porky.

Christian Martinez
Christian Martinez

Kek

David Bailey
David Bailey

He's not wrong.

Chase Baker
Chase Baker

Mugabe wasn’t even a socialist shithead. He drove white proles out of the country and allowed black porkies to keep all their shit. He was a bourgeois nationalist plain and simple, and an extremely corrupt and incompetent one at that.

Isaac Robinson
Isaac Robinson

Landowners
Proles
Hmmm

Kevin Miller
Kevin Miller

every white person in Rhodesia was a landowner

Camden Cook
Camden Cook

They were farmers, dumbass.

Nolan Rivera
Nolan Rivera

"Leftists" hating on Mugabe are fucking stupid.

So what happens in Palestine when the Palestinians win back all of their 48 lands? Of course it would make sense to do a Mugabe-style land reform whereby Ashkenazi-supremacist kibbutzim are seized and given to Palestinians (preferably Palestinians exercising their Right of Return who have nowhere to go). Plus all homes that were stolen in 48 would have to be given back to their respected Palestinian families. There is literally nothing wrong with land reform on a racial basis if the injustice being solved has everything to do with race.

Brody Carter
Brody Carter

He WAS /ourguy/

He's still /ourguy/.

Hudson Bailey
Hudson Bailey

hates western humanism
Whats wrong with that?

Isaiah Scott
Isaiah Scott

Anarkiddies are just two days away from becoming Neocons.

Isaac Reed
Isaac Reed

Takes on IMF structural adjustment program OF HIS OWN FREE WILL thus ruining his economy
Race baits and intimidates/assassinates every other politician who doesn't have his backing for the next 20 years
Our guy

kys

Carson Thompson
Carson Thompson

forgot shitposting flag

Kevin Lewis
Kevin Lewis

'defend black proles' by killing white proles and shooting down passenger airplanes

wew lad

Dylan Hernandez
Dylan Hernandez

Source?

Adrian Hernandez
Adrian Hernandez

ruining his economy

Zimbabwe has a shitton of sanctions placed on it, dipshit.

Parker Edwards
Parker Edwards

yeah dude BASED let's genocide the white proles while still keeping porky in control of things.
BROWN CAPITALIST POWER!

Chase Wood
Chase Wood

Nkomo targeted exclusively civillians with mass terror attacks

Isaiah Cruz
Isaiah Cruz

Mugabe ruined the economy long before any sanctions were placed on him dumbass. Every single problem Zimbabwe has can be traced back to his taking on the SAP.

Benjamin Sanchez
Benjamin Sanchez

So what? It's still the West's fault for trying to overthrow the legitimate Zimbabwean leader.

Anthony Mitchell
Anthony Mitchell

Also here's more in-depth information on how Mugabe's acceptance of the structural adjustment program ruined the economy

The present wretched situation in Zimbabwe is itself the product of the IMF's structural adjustment programmes. Unlike other developing countries,
Zimbabwe was not suffering from an unsustainable foreign debt crisis when it turned to the IMF for help with its budget deficit in the early 1990s.
But far from helping Zimbabwe's economic development, the aim of the structural adjustment programme (SAP) outlined in the Framework for Economic Reform (1991-95), written by the IMF and World Bank, was to remake Zimbabwe's economy in the interests of the transnational corporations.
Its first step was to insist that the government halve the fiscal deficit to 5 percent by 1994 through cutting taxation. Between 1989 and 1995, the top rate of tax was reduced from 60 percent to 45 percent, and corporation taxes from 50 percent to 37 percent. Huge tax breaks were given to the commercial farming sector producing for the international market. The net result was to reduce government revenue as a share of GDP by 5 percent—even more than envisaged in the original targets.
The IMF's SAP has wrought untold havoc on economic and social conditions in Zimbabwe. It struck at the very heart of the political and economic programme followed by Mugabe's government since independence. This was to expand social and public services while leaving the white settler community's share of the country's land, wealth and income intact. By cutting social provision, structural adjustment removed the very limited safety net for the nation's people at the same time as increasing the overall level of poverty.

David Wilson
David Wilson

By 1994, the cost of financial “liberalisation”, devaluation, hikes in interest rates and the other measures that come with SAPs, meant that the cost of government debt more than doubled from 13 percent of domestic revenue in 1989 to 27 percent in 1994. Since the payment of this debt to the international banks could not be avoided, and tax revenues had fallen, the burden of adjustment fell on non-debt expenditure.
These factors taken together led to a massive contraction, equal to 15 percent of GDP between 1992 and 1995 in order to meet the IMF's fiscal targets. In absolute terms, the fiscal deficit actually increased over the period.
Impact on social conditions

The cuts in public expenditure triggered a collapse in public investment and the disintegration of the basic infrastructure. It has led to the re-emergence of diseases such as cholera, malaria and yellow fever, and the spread of new ones such as HIV/AIDS. With 25 percent of those aged 15 to 49 infected with the HIV virus, Zimbabwe is the worst affected country in Africa.
Social services suffered deep cuts. A recent Oxfam report, Education No —Break the Cycle of Poverty, showed that the effects on education were catastrophic. Over the period 1990-94, there was a 20 percent decline in real spending on primary education. Taking into account increased enrolment, real expenditure per pupil fell by about 40 percent. Teachers saw their jobs, wages and conditions go. School fees were introduced in 1992 for all urban primary schools. Although rural schools were supposedly exempt, in practice even before the SAP schools were resorting to all sorts of charges for uniforms, books and levies for building funds. In 1992, the average cost of sending a child to a rural school was $11 per pupil per annum. The more school budgets came under pressure, the more the charges rose.
Not surprisingly, there was a 5 percent drop in primary school completion rates in the early 1990s. The transition rate for girls into secondary education fell by 30 percent, with the dropout rate increasing by the same amount. Less than 4 percent of pupils entering secondary schools now graduate with a leaving certificate.
The deterioration in social provision and rising costs went along with increasing poverty, especially in rural areas. Even before the 1991-92 drought, one of the worst in recent history, an estimated 2.6 million out of a population of just over 10 million could not meet their basic needs. Communal farm areas accounted for over 75 percent of this poverty.
During the first half of the 1990s, poverty increased dramatically in rural areas. At the same time, urban poverty intensified as real wages fell by one third due to raging inflation. Remittances to rural areas, an important source of income for the rural poor, dropped sharply. The misery this created is reflected in child malnutrition rates of 30 percent.
None of this was acknowledged in the IMF's Policy Framework Paper or the World Bank's Country Assistance Strategy. Yet the IMF tacitly conceded, even before the implementation of Zimbabwe's SAP, that its policies do not promote economic growth.
"Although there have been a number of studies on the subject over the last decade, one cannot say with certainty whether 'programs' have worked or not…. On the basis of existing studies, one certainly cannot say whether the adoption of programs supported by the Fund led to an improvement in inflation and growth performance. In fact it is often found that programs are associated with a rise in inflation and a fall in growth rate" (Mohsin Kahn, The Macroeconomic Effects of Fund Supported Adjustment Programs, IMF staff papers, vol. 37, no. 2, 1990, pp. 196 and 122, emphasis added).

Lucas Robinson
Lucas Robinson

Be Mugabe
My country is prosperous let's go to the IMF to turn it into something that's even 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧better🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Implement SAP
Everything goes to shit
I know! Let's spend the next 20+ years desperately trying to maintain power by all means while amassing a vast personal fortune! That'll really show them!

But heyyyy he's a good boy, he didndu nuffin amirite?

Angel Watson
Angel Watson

Then the IMF is at fault for being predatory, not Mugabe who only wants dignity for his people.

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