Towards a new socialism

Jonathan Reed
Jonathan Reed

is this a good book or is it a meme it actually answers some questions i had on socialism im a libsoc and i want to learn more about how a socialist/communist society would function

alsowillyoufuckoffwiththecharsthingitsfuckedandeveryonehatesit

Nathaniel Flores
Nathaniel Flores

yes
it's an easy read too
it should be inspirational and interesting even if you don't agree with it's conclusions

Gabriel Moore
Gabriel Moore

Read Arguments for Socialism too

Noah Rodriguez
Noah Rodriguez

It's good if you are one of those "marxism is the scientific management of capital" type Bolshevik imbeciles.

Noah Morales
Noah Morales

Leftcoms fear the Cockshott

Christian Davis
Christian Davis

wtf i'm a leftcom now

seriously, do you think you're just going to jump straight into the complete abolishment of commodity production? have fun gulaging everyone who opposes you

Thomas Johnson
Thomas Johnson

Fake news. Cockshott is confirmed inspired by council/left-communism.

Oliver Reyes
Oliver Reyes

If you could give us even the faintest hint of what the 'real' alternative looks like, we would really appreciate it. As long as leftcoms and anarchists fail to actually articulate their alternative, the 'scientific management of capital' model will prevail in revolutionary practice. Vague truisms like 'abolishing the present state of things' may have been good enough in the far past, but we need something concrete to inform our activity today.

Xavier Phillips
Xavier Phillips

(Not him)

Central planning.

Gavin Taylor
Gavin Taylor

it is not for some vanguard party or cadre of communists to decide, but the new society is created by the proletariat's expression of itself as the revolutionary subject during the revolutionary period by the methodology of organic centralism

Jeremiah Hernandez
Jeremiah Hernandez

So I guess you haven't actually read Cumshott

Isaac Perry
Isaac Perry

Its an amazing book

Liam Evans
Liam Evans

it is not for some vanguard party or cadre of communists to decide
This is a fine sentiment and an agreeable one, but it doesn't seem to get borne out in any of the revolutionary struggles we've seen so far. In past struggles it looks a hell of a lot like middle class elements, organised in a party and accumulating a core working class constituency, provide the organisational backbone for a revolutionary struggle, and when the people overcome the old state the revolutionary party has control over the shape of economy that follows. Material constraints then dictate that the revolutionary party either 'become the scientific managers of capital' or relinquish control of the state.

From what I've read of the leftcoms it seems like they advocate for some alternate outcome instead of the 'revolutionary party ends up managing capital' one, but they never give more detail and it's very frustrating because I genuinely want to get on board with it but the rhetoric wriggles out of my grasp right when it should be driving the point home.

the proletariat's expression of itself as the revolutionary subject during the revolutionary period
This may be some nascent anti-intellectualism shining through on my part, but this conversation is about they way that people organise the production and distribution of the goods they need and want. I need a line drawn between your quote and my question above. Reading Bordiga and Dauve et al hasn't helped me draw that line.

organic centralism
OK, so from what I have been able to gather this means 'a form of party organisation that isn't forced into a particular form by the party leadership/bureaucracy'.

I'm not sure what you mean by this short comment. Are you saying that leftcoms advocate for central planning?

Oliver Diaz
Oliver Diaz

Are you saying that leftcoms advocate for central planning?
Some do. "Leftcoms" is an inconsistent category anyway.

David Parker
David Parker

read bordiga

Thomas Myers
Thomas Myers

rude, I'm not a leftcom

Easton Young
Easton Young

communism

Brayden Wilson
Brayden Wilson

if you idiots read the book you'd know he basically advocates abolishing the commodity form via central planning + labor vouchers.

Bentley James
Bentley James

abolishing the commodity form via central planning + totally not wages.
Why do people still cling the labour vouchers system when Kropotkin totally destroyed that bullshit more than a century ago is beyond me.

Matthew Sanders
Matthew Sanders

What if I'm a leftcom that likes Cockshott?

Juan Russell
Juan Russell

is his argument that labor vouchers won't abolish commodity production or that they simply won't work

Brayden Flores
Brayden Flores

Yes, even if you are not an ML I completely suggest reading Cockshott (especially TANS),
It gives you a hint of how could a socialist economy coould be planned, also it haves some interesting inshights on how the Democratic system could work, or how communes could be stablished.
The book analyzes also sucesses and errors of past socialist states, and uses this info to
explain how with modern cybenetics could we plan a socialist economy, without utopian bullshit.
Just a few recommendations, I suggest you read before it, the First two chapters of Capital (non vital but it will help with certain things), also despite what some people say the Maths are really basic (just some linear algebra)

Jacob Nguyen
Jacob Nguyen

cockshott isnt an ML, if you read this book it'd clear to you that he obviously does not like stalin at all

Hudson Morris
Hudson Morris

Marxism-Leninism = apologizing for Stalin

Jason Morales
Jason Morales

have you used twitter, leftypol, or facebook for more than even 5 minutes? because that is *exactly* what it means.

Aaron Hernandez
Aaron Hernandez

I guess you're right, but that doesn't mean Cockshott can't be an ML.

Isaac Cook
Isaac Cook

being a stalinist doesn't mean you apologize for stalin
what?

Wyatt King
Wyatt King

then you are leftcom who likes some marxist theory.

Matthew Clark
Matthew Clark

sure but what does this LOOK like?

what are the best predictions left-coms have drawn up?

Jose Lewis
Jose Lewis

Bordigists are like the ancaps of marxism, they don't predict anything they just justify everything that already happened with their overly abstract and generalized theory.

Adam Sanchez
Adam Sanchez

There are only two narratives: Stalin did nothing wrong and American propaganda

Wyatt Gutierrez
Wyatt Gutierrez

seriously, do you think you're just going to jump straight into the complete abolishment of capitalism? have fun gulaging everyone who opposes you

Xavier Rogers
Xavier Rogers

predicting what communism will look like
utopian af

Luis Taylor
Luis Taylor

being this scared of basic math

Jeremiah Price
Jeremiah Price

being this utopian

Thomas Perez
Thomas Perez

be prole
realize that our current regime is fucked
start reading and talking about anti-capitalist books
<lulz, UTOPIAN ☭TANKIE☭ communism IS A DREAM I HAD LIST NIGHT

Juan Rogers
Juan Rogers

No. How communism will look isn't something to plan out its a real movement not a utopia.

Elijah Taylor
Elijah Taylor

no smoking anime pls

Xavier Peterson
Xavier Peterson

I agree that we can't know details of organization of future world, I do not have crystal ball. All I'm saying that real movement which would change present state of things is possible. Roughly half of working Europeans even remember such change.

Can you at least tell me how will you look like by your standard anti-capitalist organization? Or that's only something which will feel right?

Don't tell me what to do, fascist.

Dylan Wilson
Dylan Wilson

*f/a/scist

Xavier Hill
Xavier Hill

Read the first chapter-and-a-half as well as their critique of soviets; it's quite interesting and I would recommend. Easy read too.

Luke Cox
Luke Cox

chubby ebony gib me big boner
Why are my responses so fried

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