/marx/

Isaiah Lewis
Isaiah Lewis

Why don't the ML's, Maoists, tankies, Hoxhaists, etc. participate in discussion over at /marx/ more often? It's very slow right now but if all the ML leaning people here just checked it and posted something every now and then it would be a lot better. I think it has the potential to be a nice little board for ML's and the like (we're incredibly hated on /leftypol/). I know a lot of people don't like Ismail but he's just one person, so that wouldn't be a problem if there were more than like 3 people there.

All urls found in this thread:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170918123755/https://archive.org/leftypol/res/2018404.html
Aaron Watson
Aaron Watson

Because smaller boards aren't really used here tbh

Austin Garcia
Austin Garcia

I agree OP, you should spend more time there and less time here. At the very least ship that hapa faggot there.

Henry Johnson
Henry Johnson

At the very least ship that hapa faggot there.
I don't like that guy though. I hope he stays here.

Jaxon Lewis
Jaxon Lewis

If it's a ML board, why isn't it called /stalin/?

Lucas Evans
Lucas Evans

heh

Connor Allen
Connor Allen

So much for standing with targets of imperialism.

Parker Murphy
Parker Murphy

I don't know either. On Holla Forums MLs get banned all the time, I don't know why they don't attempt to post there. It could easily be the size of /liberty/.

Nicholas Jenkins
Nicholas Jenkins

On Holla Forums MLs get banned all the time
Don't remind me of that based Stalinstache poster

Matthew Morales
Matthew Morales

It's not just him. We had two Stalintrips here who only effort posted, both got banned after making everybody mad and never came back.

Hohxa poster also got banned for literally nothing as I recall correctly.

I got banned two times without a reason. One time I was banned for talking about democratic centralism ("shilling fascism") and I don't even remember the other time, but it was a nonsensical reason as well. If you are ML on Holla Forums you have to post without a flag and hide your powerlevel if you don't want to get banned.

Jonathan Wright
Jonathan Wright

Fuck marx and fuck white people.

Adrian Murphy
Adrian Murphy

Why though? I guess leftypol is an anarchist dominated board now. Although a year ago I got banned for making a joke about Lenin.

Lucas Gutierrez
Lucas Gutierrez

I guess leftypol is an anarchist dominated board now.
It has been since at least 2015.

Isaiah Barnes
Isaiah Barnes

Holla Forums and anarchist/leftcom board. Just look at Muke, he is like the materialization of Holla Forums (despite he hating it now). He 1:1 adopted all the hot takes and taking points that were regarded consensus here. However, I never particulary had a problem posting here in the beginning, but once all the volunteers became mods, MLs started to get banned en masse.

Gabriel Johnson
Gabriel Johnson

It started out 50:50 between anarchists and classical Leninists. Anarchists have always made up the half, while the other half is constantly fluctuating between whatever seems to be hottest meme right now (Bookchin, Bordiga, etc.)

Evan Lewis
Evan Lewis

Well even in the beginning you had lelinists like Ginjeet or that greek groucho who attacked MLs while we anarchists generally got along, the propagation of meme ideologies like marksucc seemed to splinter you more than us as well.

Dylan Moore
Dylan Moore

ok then fuck off. you can wish all day for the second cumming of Stalin if you want.

I'm busy changing my world with my friends who are doing the same. We're honestly better without you guys so we can house more normies, you guys are dweebs.

Eli Bennett
Eli Bennett

LEFTYPOL IS NOW A CHAD BOARD
FUCK OFF

Angel Young
Angel Young

MLs are at a disadvantage due to their low numbers and being scattered. I think they should post on /marx/index.html more in order to get more organized. If they were able to have real conversations there that weren't disrupted by constant repetition of liberal/fascist smears by the anarchists, trots, and socdems on here, then they'd actually be able to better combat those smears on here as well. They should not be isolating themselves on that board, which is just as antithetical to MLism as being scattered and disorganized. I'm open to making a cycled embassy thread or something here for /marx/ posters to interact more with Holla Forums.

Any /marx/posters or MLs who have an opinion on the matter, please let me know what you think.

One time I was banned for talking about democratic centralism ("shilling fascism")
I've seen a few complaints about these kinds of bans lately, and I just want to say that this is definitely not a correct interpretation of the rules if that's what you were banned for. Defending dem centralism, DPRK, Cuba, or whatever other country is perfectly allowable here. It is not "red fascism" or some similar disgusting smear, and doesn't fall under the ban on Asserism/Nazbol. I'd try to find out what the actual ban was and who made it to let them know, but the ban logs are broken.

Lincoln Barnes
Lincoln Barnes

Why should ML's get a board called /marx/ and not Marxists

Dominic Campbell
Dominic Campbell

A main problem surely is that most MLs I see are active on reddit, and well, they are redditors. I mean there are heaps of anarchist redditors as well, but anarchists seem to be more open to the chan format. The whole constant red fascism/Stalin ate babies thing becomes tedious and I can see why many MLs don't want to post on chans when it's dominated by people who are pretty negative towards MLs. I like the idea for a cyclical, but there isn't enough interest. Marx has a horrifyingly low number of users. I encourage every ML, MLM or even orthodox Leninist/generic state socialist to post on /marx/ to get it lively, Ismail runs the board pretty chill, and then more communication with Holla Forums can be possible.

Charles Carter
Charles Carter

Whoever comes first, comrade.

Christopher Johnson
Christopher Johnson

The whole constant red fascism/Stalin ate babies thing becomes tedious
But that isn't common here, you're more likely to see MLs get called socdems than saying Stalin was too brutal and the only red fascist accusation I've seen has been directed at that fag who thirsts for rage after storm.

Ryan Sullivan
Ryan Sullivan

Made a thread here:
/marx/res/6663.html#6663

Jayden Cook
Jayden Cook

Add more flags.

Ian Hill
Ian Hill

this.

Evan Hill
Evan Hill

Why don't the ML's, Maoists, tankies, Hoxhaists, etc. participate in discussion over at /marx/ more often?
Probably because tankies don't read Marx

Brayden Mitchell
Brayden Mitchell

Nvm just went to /marx/ and realized the board is not for discussing Marx, but for larping about socialist countries

Andrew Richardson
Andrew Richardson

lmao the /marx/ posters read more than 90% of Holla Forums by far

Anthony Rivera
Anthony Rivera

From a first glance it certainly doesn't look like it. There's like one thread vaguely related to value theory, and it's somehow about Stalin. No threads about the contradictions of capital, crisis theory or anything.

Connor Hill
Connor Hill

MLs need a thread on /marx/ to monitor Holla Forums and coordinate arguments as well as a cyclical on Holla Forums
I'd like if more MLs could explain their positions well but this is just sad.

Zachary Barnes
Zachary Barnes

I don't see how pointing out the continued existence of commodities and a class system in countries like the DPRK, USSR and Cuba are "liberal/fascist" smears BO. I would like to hear what arguments you have against these accusations.

Jack Foster
Jack Foster

And isn't it bad policy to blatantly support a tendency like this? This doesn't bode well for creating a place for pluralistic leftist discussion.

Jacob Barnes
Jacob Barnes

It is bad, and worrisome. I wouldn't want an anarchist BO coordinating shilling because ancom anons can't refute the most basic arguments against anarchism.

Asher Edwards
Asher Edwards

There is no such thing as Marxism–Leninism, only the immortal science of Stalinism.

Hudson Ramirez
Hudson Ramirez

The board has been wiped by 8ch and spammers several times. The BO of /marx/ actually scans books and uploads them to google books as a hobby or something.

Grayson Ross
Grayson Ross

Because leftypol IS a ML board already.

Leftcoms are just a shitposting flag, trots don't exist, and anarchists are just underage idiots who will eventually become MLs after they read more.

Anthony Nguyen
Anthony Nguyen

I'd like if more MLs could explain their positions well but this is just sad.
working together to make clearer and more comprehensive responses is bad? guess we should never attempt to make publications then.

Noah Sanchez
Noah Sanchez

Sounds like it could just as easily degenerate into shitposting raids that don't really elaborate on anything

Luis Rogers
Luis Rogers

/marx/ is a fairly shit board that is run by a guy who supports Dengism and even Putin's capitalism, and throughout its history has tended to attract people who are more opposed to Holla Forums than for discussing ML. I don't think scattering MLs on two boards will help them at all.

Hunter Cruz
Hunter Cruz

knowing how these debates usually go, the real hazard is that it turns into 100+ replies of people replying to each other point-by-point through greentext, which nobody else other than the people debating will ever want to read.

Eli Perez
Eli Perez

Organizing specifically to counter anarchists and leftcoms on an image board is different than a newspaper or blog. I miss the stalin trip because despite being a dumb faggot who thought climate change was a capitalist scheme he knew his material and even debated on /anarcho/, I would like to see MLs who know their own ideology instead of these idiots who want to reeeee at anarchists and trots.

Gavin Gonzalez
Gavin Gonzalez

Yes, you should definitely leave. We don't need any more idiots who believe that big gubermint=socialism, /pol/yps are enough.

Jordan Ross
Jordan Ross

You basically seem to be making big assumptions.

Tyler Diaz
Tyler Diaz

/marx/res/6663.html#6672
The BO is talking about creating a cyclical thread specifically for MLs here as well as a cheat sheet on /marx/ to make defending ML positions easier so I don't see how anything I said was an assumption. Moderation favoritism towards any tendency is bad enough, including the recent bans of MLs, but having more posters who can't refute arguments without a crutch is even worse.

Mason Roberts
Mason Roberts

why don't the bookchin fags fuck off to /rojava/? why don't leftcoms fuck off to /leftcom/ ? why don't cockshottists fuck off to /gnussr/ ? why doesn't every special snowflake fuck off to their own special snowflake board?

Owen Clark
Owen Clark

Ya I was banned for questioning the relationship of the Catalan independence movement to Israel and Germany. I wasn’t flag-fagging at the time I often don’t since people judge posts on the flag and rather than the content

I would like to hear what arguments you have against these
accusations.
It’s not like the arguments haven’t been made but many people won’t listen to reason and repeat the same talking points no matter how many times it gets refuted:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170918123755/https://archive.org/leftypol/res/2018404.html
Kinda funny how a few knowledgeable MLs beat a horde of anarchist/leftcom shitposters in that thread.

It’s not so much intellectual arguments about the issues anymore, so much as it is that any thread with MLs in it gets attacked with one liners, insults and chronic shitposting. The result of the actions of the vocal anti-ML minority and the passive majority will be the transformation of Holla Forums from a bastion of free leftist discussion to a haven of social liberals. ML communities is not free of such deviations themselves but that is where things are heading.

Personally, I really don’t want any special muh privileges or anything like that just for us MLs to get together and have a place we can discuss with decent traffic. If I wasn’t banned/working constantly I’d be here duking it out with the red liberals here more often but honestly it all gets kinda tiring.

Brayden Taylor
Brayden Taylor

just for us MLs to get together and have a place we can discuss with decent traffic
I made a thread about something I've been thinking about for a while, over there instead of here /marx/res/6678.html#6678 . Would be interesting to hear some of your thoughts on this, based hoxha poster.

Benjamin Gomez
Benjamin Gomez

It’s not so much intellectual arguments about the issues anymore, so much as it is that any thread with MLs in it gets attacked with one liners, insults and chronic shitposting
In my experience, this is why ML communities tend to degenerate into safe spaces as well. As an ML, you not only get attacked by non-communists with a fervor that's almost psychotic, you also get attacked in a similar fashion by your fellow leftists, with similar arguments. I tend to ignore the chronic shitposting (I'm forced to, since an equally snarky response results in a ban, when I have the tankflag on at least), but what really grinds my gears is that many accuse MLs as being sectarian and unnecessary hateful against anarchists - while it is certainly not us who basically creates an entire identity evolving arround anti-ML. For me, the point of dishonesty is reached when someone spends more time attacking ML states than attacking imperialism/capitalism.

So anybody who says that ML circles are circlejerks or LARPing pits does not realize that we need these circlejerks to not get shitposted to death. The downside of this is that ML communities tend to start hating on each other - this would never happen if MLs had a healthy relationship with other leftist tendencies they could "agree to disagree" with, without being flooded to death with insults and Nazi propaganda. In another threat, somebody kept shilling for Anne Applebaum who is a staunch anti-communist and NATO-shill. Once communists uncritically regurgitate these kinds of opinion pieces, there is a problem. The whole "it wasn't real socialism" shtick becomes tedious after a while - not because all arguments have been exchanged over and over now, it's tedious because according to this stance, socialism has never existed. So the entire discussion would then limit itself to "who came the closest" - at which point most ultras make a tabula rasa, saying that capitalism and socialism are absolute, hermeneutic systems and you can only be 100% socialist or 100% capitalist. How these people concile that with Marx' own works is an enigma to me. I guess the basic difference is that MLs try to apply a materialist analysis, while Leftcoms see socialism as some sort of checklist.

Alexander Brooks
Alexander Brooks

So anybody who says that ML circles are circlejerks or LARPing pits does not realize that we need these circlejerks
lol, no you don't. MLs are not special or unique in being shitposted, there is no excuse for torture chamberes. AnComs get shitposted by Marxists and other socialists who perceive a need for a state, as well as AnCaps for being "not REAL anarchism!!" and right wingers for being "pro terrorist angsty teens", libsocs not fitting into the anarchist definition who support an temporary state get shat on by other libsocs, MLs for not being committed enough, and right wingers for obvious reasons, and Mark"Soc"s and Mutualists get shat on by literally everyone under the sun.

If you want a place where you can jerk off about Soviet outfits and East Germany, that's fine, I don't care. But don't for a second lie to yourself that it's neccessary and has to be done because you're just more ""oppressed"" than everyone else.

Luke Davis
Luke Davis

as well as AnCaps for being "not REAL anarchism!!" and right wingers for being "pro terrorist angsty teens",
Because Holla Forums is of ancaps and rightoids

Chase Lee
Chase Lee

Marxist-Leninist "discussions":

general USSR questions thread - 149 replies
Titoism appreciation thread - 70 replies
what's the deal with Maoists? - 11 replies
Albania did nothing wrong! - 90 replies

Why doesn't anyone like us anymore? - 4 replies

Logan Lopez
Logan Lopez

That's not the point, of course there is not a slew of ancaps her. The point is, just like MLs, other socialists get shitposted to death within their communities, and smeared as children or outright targeted by fags who would appreciate them silenced outside.

Andrew Clark
Andrew Clark

but what really grinds my gears is that many accuse MLs as being sectarian and unnecessary hateful against anarchists - while it is certainly not us who basically creates an entire identity evolving arround anti-ML.
Trots and leftcoms have the reputation for being sectarian and it's more than a bit disingenious to say anarchists revolve around being ML when the anarchist v marxist disagreements have been raging since the late 19th century. If I'm being honest I prefer you guys to the trots and most leftcoms for your honesty and clarity about what you want but it's more than a little insulting to assume the reason I'm an anarchist is because I want to stick it to MLs.
this would never happen if MLs had a healthy relationship with other leftist tendencies they could "agree to disagree" with
We're on a chan where getting told to kys is as common as saying hello, what exactly are you expecting here? Just get better at taking the bait, if anarchists can not sperg out when someone says "hurr durr anarkiddies" MLs can not sperg out at "hurr durr state capitalism" or whatever.

Nathan Long
Nathan Long

2175505
Honestly not really. There are always surges or resurgences of prevalent ideas on Holla Forums in terms of what is being shilled or discussed, but right now after a large leftcom stint, MLs and all the others are pretty even since a lot more MLs are being vocal.

Hudson Rodriguez
Hudson Rodriguez

Anarchists have consistently managed to be about 40-50% of the board's population since 2015 though, while MLs slowly got drowned out by lelinists, mark succs, or leftcoms.

Brandon Wood
Brandon Wood

M8 I was the one arguing with you for most of that thread. To declare it as a one sided victory when you were the one who ceased debating is just petty.

Jordan Turner
Jordan Turner

It had gone on for hundreds of posts and strayed from the original topic towards the finer points of Marxist historiography which was only tangentially related.

It has to stop at some point, no? I think my posts on Marxist historiography and other issues of history stood well enough on their own as well as the posts I made on theory and socialist history.

It’s pretty clear when you read the thread that in the beginning there’s an ocean of anti-ML shitposters and then it’s revealed there’s maybe one or two relatively knowledgeable anti-ML posters who even both to reply. I can acknowledge the effort and genuine willingness to engage with us on the part of a few posters but in the end I think we carried the day and reading the thread it seems I’m not the only one.

Call it “petty” or what have you but the thread is freely-available for anyone to read and form their own opinion. I think an unbiased observer would conclude the same but I naturally cannot say I am an unbiased observer.

I posted the thread less to “declare victory” than to show that solid ML arguments have already been made in regards to the gommodity broduction :DDDD meme that gets spewed everywhere here. It’s not at all like what some posters are saying that BO is trying to save us cause we can’t argue.

Oliver Rodriguez
Oliver Rodriguez

The fact that I just got banned again for no reason and that my posts got deleted pretty much implies that I was right.

Jason Jackson
Jason Jackson

user you've just responded to. You got a screencap? A name?

Anthony Lee
Anthony Lee

It’s not at all like what some posters are saying that BO is trying to save us cause we can’t argue
But you are one ML, if we were to pull out another self-described ML I doubt it would be one as knowledgeable as you. The issue with providing MLs with a cheat sheet is you'll end up with ML versions of leftcom shitposters, that is guys who can repeat arguments but are unable to defend them or respond to counter arguments if called out. I believe this is one thing you and other have been complaing about ITT in regards to how MLs are responded to regarding gommodity broduction.

Xavier Wright
Xavier Wright

Sure. I keep getting this but I'm not evading anything. There was never a ban against me. Appeals don't work. My home IP got banned for "evasion", now if I was banned for evasion there too, I can't very well be evading now, can I?!

Landon Edwards
Landon Edwards

I've removed that ban and messaged the volunteer.

That ban is also against the rules. Due to how shit 8ch is, I can't remove it or figure out who made it.

Jaxson Wood
Jaxson Wood

because ML doesn't mean "everything Stalin does"

Henry Ross
Henry Ross

Thanks. I can understand to ban people for evasion, but I've never been banned in the first place. All I want to know is an answer to what the fuck I'm actually evading. If I could get an answer I'd gladly fuck off.

Joshua Taylor
Joshua Taylor

2178297
If that's your home IP you need to delete those right away and post an edited version where it can't be seen.

Jeremiah Clark
Jeremiah Clark

2178297
Volunteers might be assuming that one or very few people use that flag and banning for it, which also isn't ok. I have no idea what the original reason is supposed to be either.

Dominic Evans
Dominic Evans

I think it's time for a volunteer purge

Zachary Price
Zachary Price

Already did. I just wanted you guys to see it to figure out what's going on.

Nolan Thompson
Nolan Thompson

That's not your actual IP address, though. I don't think he has to worry unless there's some way to decode that garbled mess

Dylan Roberts
Dylan Roberts

/pol/ would use it to harass him or some other poor fellow between sucking Trump's cock. It's a good idea not to take chances at any rate.

Elijah Brooks
Elijah Brooks

unless there's some way to decode that garbled mess
there is, but it'd be too much effort for most people here.

Jace Hernandez
Jace Hernandez

why don't you just leave

Nice try leftcom gang, you can't fool me

Jonathan Wood
Jonathan Wood

You don't have to leave. Wouldn't you rather have serious discussions with other MLs, and use it to improve your understanding of things, and then use that to better combat liberalism on Holla Forums?

Dominic Garcia
Dominic Garcia

Funny you call yourself leftist, yet the way this board is run by mods is purely fascist. Practice what you preach asshole.

Kevin Brown
Kevin Brown

fascism is when people do stuff I don't like
flag checks out :^)

Gavin Wright
Gavin Wright

bump

Joshua Stewart
Joshua Stewart

I don't think you can ever address the problem of bureaucracy within the framework of M-L which dictates it as mandatory. Bureaucratic institutions that control the state degenerate into capitalist oligarchy time and time again. Your solution might be some form of cockshot reforms but that requires a bureaucracy that desires those things, and they never will because those kind of reforms undermine their own power and muh privilege.

Oliver Bell
Oliver Bell

are Market Socialist or Syndicalist types with a strong affinity for strongman leadership allowed?

Wyatt Wilson
Wyatt Wilson

Really don't get where this need for an ML safe space along with propping up by the BO is coming from when they're the most dominant on the board already. The amount of leftcoms that exist online as a whole let alone on here is marginal, in fact they can pretty much all be found on one group chat on twitter, most of it's members actively avoid this place becauae of the ML presents. As for anarkiddies, they've existed here the whole tile, why do the ML's need help against them now?

David James
David James

Can confirm. I was an anarchist in high school until I actually started reading leftist theory. Then I became a Marxist-Leninist.

Jonathan Bell
Jonathan Bell

M-Ls get BTFO on here all the time. Last polls indicated ancoms being the most dominant btw

Ayden Stewart
Ayden Stewart

Yea they've always been dominant, but ML's are a close second.

Connor Hughes
Connor Hughes

implying the BO sole authority here and all the mods just don't ban whoever they feel like

Adam Taylor
Adam Taylor

Both those statements are true - BO is lazy.

Kevin Perez
Kevin Perez

Sure, but M-Ls are outnumbered by leftcoms, communalists and anarchists by a wide margin. I don't see that changing anytime soon either.

Angel Howard
Angel Howard

Leftcoms and communalists hardly exist, especially leftcoms. I know personally every online leftcom.

Landon Carter
Landon Carter

Same polls put leftcoms at 30, communalists at 30 while M-Ls were around 50ish. These polls are hardly definitively accurate but there's a good amount of both on here

Luis Jackson
Luis Jackson

I know personally every online leftcom.
No you don't.

Landon Perry
Landon Perry

Really don't get where this need for an ML safe space along with propping up by the BO is coming from when they're the most dominant on the board already. The amount of leftcoms that exist online as a whole let alone on here is marginal, in fact they can pretty much all be found on one group chat on twitter, most of it's members actively avoid this place becauae of the ML presents. As for anarkiddies, they've existed here the whole tile, why do the ML's need help against them now?
all of this tbqh

Cooper Long
Cooper Long

Because I don't like bookclub leftism. The anarkiddies here are cool for the most part (except for the Bookchinites and the black flag liberals of course.)

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