why isn't there a christian socialist movement in america ?
Why isn't there a christian socialist movement in america ?
Religion is reactionary most of the time and gets too much sympathy here. This goes double in burgerland
because socialism requires a materialist conception of history, and because religion is inherently hierarchical
Because Protestant Christianity is the majority in America and they have the Protestant work ethic. Protestant beliefs tend to seep into other sects of Christianity in the US.
Also, the most religious areas in the US are also the most culturally backward areas, so it makes sense that they wouldn't have a progressive inclination.
why isn't there a christian socialist movement in america ?
there are a ton of "christian socialists" in south america
Basically what said. A Christian Socialist movement would be a godsend (heh), but conservatives have a strong grip on the majority of religious folks.
This is now a general christian communist thread.
Religion in the US takes "opiate of the masses" to a extreme. Look at all the famous religious leaders in the US, they are all disgusting porky televangelists or cult leaders or both (except MLK I guess, who was pretty cool). Religion has been completely commodified, probably beyond saving. But if a genuine liberatory christian movement arises in the US, then that might be the way to de-classcuck the south.
Because most American Christians are Protestants or part of Protestant-derived minor sects and they believe shit Protestant work ethic and stuff like Prosperity Gospel that fits neatly with the American "Being rich is the greatest thing you can aim for" ideal. Essentially, it's a dismal combination of general American materialistic classcuckery and religions justifying and protecting the status quo.
tfw no christcom gf
Feels bad man
matthew 19 16-30
The Catholics have a socialist group, I forget the name.
Most nuns I have met are socialists also.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
I never really understood this passage. It seems like what the disciples said was a non sequitor and then Jesus implies that God can actually save you even if you are rich.
He means you will be saved if you live like Christ, eg. give all your greedy shit away to the poor.
For some reason I can't stop thinking about how nice it'd be to be with a christcom gf after seeing that picture.
most Christian socialists are part of an extremely hierarchical and corrupt denomination
Why is this even the case? Where are the Protestant communists?
t. atheist but have a Protestant family who have potential to be woke as fuck
Those pictures are all the same you rube.
I've had a lifetime of dealing with Christianity's moral push into politics in America that I just have to be honest and say please no fucking more
well, jesus makes it pretty clear that
it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God
and he says
With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible, so jot that down
so yeah I think he's trying to say that rich people can only be saved if they stop being greedy assholes
but we have nor problem with rich people, in fact we want more of them
I know that. I'm just saying.
But if a genuine liberatory christian movement arises in the US, then that might be the way to de-classcuck the south
Communism, if it really is the movement that is going to emancipate humanity, should acknowledge the good aspects of all the philosophies before it. This movement is a product of humanity's long history of all the ruling ideologies from Egyptian despotism to laissez-faire liberalism. It's perfectly fine to hate those old ideas, because we've moved beyond them. But we can appreciate how they made us too.
Hell, I still entertain using "God" as a metaphor for the truth and love existing in the universe. But my appreciation for the Christian faith has it's limits. We need to remember ideas are created by humans to benefit humans, not the other way around. Some references to Christ are an entirely worthwhile effort for Communism but we don't need any outright Theocratic movements ruining the 21st century for us.
isn't one of the appeals of early Protestantism was that it could work withing capitalist meritocracy?
Catholics are archaic in respect to that
The passage just doesn't make sense. Why do the disciples say "who then can be saved" when Jesus was just talking about rich people. And what he is talking about when he says "with men this is impossible", what is impossible? Is he implying that mere men cannot give up wealth, that they require God to help them do so? It seems like the passage is somehow implying that it's impossible for a human to not be rich.
Is he implying that mere men cannot give up wealth, that they require God to help them do so? It seems like the passage is somehow implying that it's impossible for a human to not be rich.
yes, it does seem like he's implying that men cannot give up wealth on their own
Because of Le XII's Rerum Novarum and the general devlopment of Christian democrat / Christian social teaching in Europe at the turn of the century that later evolved into liberation theology in SA.
I swear leftypol's ideal gf is heading further and further into abstraction
if a cis-orthodox marxist gf fell into your lap, I bet many of you would turn her down
Black southern protestants are pretty conscious
I hate the poorcuck mentality
le starvating to have halluginations about god xd
god won't save you even if you hallucinate about it sorry fams
it's silly from our perspective but this does not mean that we shouldn't educate them or help them
Hey I'm a Protestant. Not a commie though; only a socdem.
All of you sons of bitches forget that plenty of religious groups were pretty socialistic pre-Cold War era.
Geez, I wonder what happened…
I think there's still a significant bend towards the 'moral majority' vision of Christianity in America, which is massively reactionary, litigious and judgemental of anything too diffrn't from themselves. The religious right was always a thing in the US, but they really came into power in a big way in the 80s. I think the people who cling to that vision are the same people who idolize Reagan - they simply associate him with winning for their side.
All the same, Christian socialism is the only kind of Christianity that, to me at least, seems… coherent? I guess? It never made sense for rich and pro-war individuals to call themselves Christian, but I suppose it was easy to dupe stupid people when you wrapped yourself in the flag and carry a bible, even if your view of what America should be is basically theocratic terror-state where the poor dying in the streets is preferable to offering them any assistance.
I think this is kind of a problem with religion in general, really. If you're willing to accept unfounded/unprovable premises as a not only unquestionable facts but also as the basis for how you live your life then you've already given up on reason at a pretty core level. Any other beliefs, no matter how insane, can follow from that because you've already given up on being rational about something central to your being.
Christfags get out
tfw no communist catholic church
no cute grill giving me flyers
always smiling old men in suits handing out pocket bibles
The girl in that pic would smell really bad btw.
that smile is the smile of a car salesman not a man of god
i recognize that second one from /christian/
Yo I just read the left one. It was pretty tight. About as good as two Osteen tv specials.
As long as it isn't pushing morals about lesbians and gays, and pushing bullshit about women's reproductive health Im fine. But the problem is in America I don't see these issues escaping any Socialist Movement with Christian inspitation. I mean on top of like, everything else that's reactionary about Southern and Midwest Christian culture, you also have problems related to Catholicism. Like the Vatican would have to have no say on this movement, it's only or the most bougie institutions to exist in "recent" history.
I don't think this would work without compromising on some issues that shouldn't be compromised at all. American Christian's, a bit like Ireland's, have a seriously fucked up obsession with women and their place in reproduction as a kind of hierarchy. As long as that exists I don't think I can support it.
I'm tired of Christians moralizing about why I shouldn't be worried about having my reproductive rights destroyed. That's the breaking point with me. I should be allowed birth control and if serious enough, abortion rights. As it stands it seems like Christians in America don't agree with me.
"He who does not work shall not eat"
-Paul the Apostle"
Well IMO you're halfway there, comrade. However the problem with a welfare state is that it's "socialist" aspects are dependent on the success of the "capitalist" aspects. If the capitalist aspects experience recession or economic downturn, the socialist aspects are always quickest to suffer. We've seen this in both the US and Britain for the past couple decades.
Id highly recommend you read Towards a New Socialism sometime. It's available for free online.
t. Former SocDem
There is. Catholic workers movement, leftist intentional communities, etc.
And yet the suppression and eradication of religion was one of the biggest tactical mistakes of state socialism, and was ultimately unsuccessful.
Socialism needs to be malleable and allow itself to be compatible with organized religion, if not outright using existing religion to promote itself, at least on a moral level.
Social conservative socialism could have had a lot of potential in America, but now that chance has gone away and neoliberalism reigns supreme.
The question is whether christians can be our useful idiots.
The Pilgrims were Christian Socialists
Because it's mainly protestant and not catholic
Lawl, okay. Have you never read The Crucible or The Scarlet Letter in school? The pilgrims were classcucked and spooked to high hell.
Put down the lullabies and pick up William Bradford.
No one talking about how the apostles kept everything in common and how a couple fell over dead after lying about trying make a profit
What's so painful as an orthodox christian is that it's really hard to talk about socialism or communism with church members. Like most of my Russian friends tend to have romanticized images of CCCP and we can get along pretty gud but rest of slavic friends are not exactly descendents of kulaks but not a fan of lefty ideas in general either. Talking to priest about these matter is off limit considering the damage Orthodox community had to suffer under Soviet era.
i dunno but religion sucks balls and it is inherently reactionary bullshit. i'm ok if people keep their religious beliefs to themselves and such, but seriously fuck the christians/jews/muslims/etc everyone, fuck 'em all im drunk btw
Implying you wouldnt take literally anything that offered to affection.
We need to remember ideas are created by humans to benefit humans, not the other way around.
I said it before and Ill say it again. This is the internet the people here want any affection. They are the most atomized of the alienated.
I would know
John "No war but the class war" Brown
Ironic since the most ardent anti-theist are also the most idealist in their conceptions of religions and how they form/operate
From what I've heard, US protestants believe in salvation through belief. You might recall pop cultural references to this in stuff like the Boondock Saints or other movies where criminals are very religious. Religion just becomes the assurance that your soul is fundamentally good through belief in Jesus, but you are debased by the conditions of your material existence. You loath the material world and its decadence, uphold the notion of strict, pious behavior but basically recognize that it is impossible (or at least, when you fail to achieve it if you try at all you simply feel humbled by your propensity for sin and even more fervently religious since that form of the Christian message has been demonstrated to you once again through your weakness).
It's just completely loaded.
US protestants believe in salvation through belief.
AFAIK, Sola Fide is one of the founding doctrines of the Protestant movement in general rather than just the US churches. Though they certainly seem to emphasise it more.
What do christfags think about Zizek's ideas about christian atheism?
Protestants. Those heretics are unfit for socialism on ideological and theological level.
because stealing from hard working people is wrong.
read ernst bloch
Exactly, which is why you should support communism.
tfw leftypol also likes Christianity and hates pisslam
Citing an extreme example who holds sway only over /pol/tards and a very very very small group
wow brah you really convinced me
work your ass off to get it in a good place
supply jobs for tons of people
weird creatures with green hair beat the shit out of you and call you a nazi
steal all the fruits of your labor and give it to lazy asshats
they doxx you
Damn communazis, the whole lot of you!
Also, the most religious areas in the US are also the most culturally backward areas
culturally backward areas
LA fags LEAVE.
Doesn’t the Bible literally encourages you to submit to the state, and rulers above you? I’ve never read any religious text “besides the one of peace ;^)”, that encourages uprising. I wish Christianity was this badass esoteric subculture/cult that believed they were born into the wrong realm, and were trying to get back to the heavenly dimension, and answered to no one but god himself. Instead we’re stuck with cuckservatives using it as an allegory for why you can’t have fun.
Theft doesn't become not theft if the thief works really hard stealing.
t. Hasn't ever been in any leadership or manager role ever.
Honestly, you can read the Bible however you like and it'll be as consistent as any other reading. But considering how Jesus lived and taught, it's pretty unlikely that he'd support his followers obeying and serving the same kind of people who murdered him. The main texts in the New Testament that supports bootlicking is from Paul, the closest Jesus said was "give onto Caesar what is Caesar's" but that has been interpreted incredibly variedly.
Read the Kingdom of Heaven is Within You. It's the definitive Christian Anarchist text.
Owners aren't just managers. That's a role they sometimes do, but even then, theft doesn't become not theft if the thief pays for part of what he steals.
this is closer to the average christian than liberation theology
Why can't he tell the difference between business owners and slave owners?
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" refers to the fact that the coin that is being presented to Jesus by the questioners, who are trying to get Jesus in a literary trap, displays Caesar as the god of money and as a god himself. Jesus is throwing is it back at the questioners, who have also obviously made it apparent that they are already in compliance with Caesar, that they are to take back their blasphemous coin and abandon it if they wish to follow God as it is you who is God's. This is backed by the fact then when Jesus was later charged at his condemnation for forbidding payment of taxes to Caesar and how the apostles set up a commune where they held everything in common.
Because Socialism is evil? Just saying.
Because protestants are fucking classcucked.
They both profit from robbing the labor of others.
fugg off mary worshipper
But there is.
They're called the Catholic Worker. Pic related
Also, join us /christianleft/index.html
Read this and stop worshiping an idea rather than the living God.
Weren't they a bunch of utopians who made a bunch of stupid isolated tree villages instead of engaging in political action?
Actually quite the opposite. They were political in voice and very active with assistance to the poor and neglected. They did have a farm however. I think you may be mistaken for another group.
Why would I support christian socialism? The whole point of socialism in this aspect is that we get rid of religion.
because christianity and most of the religions are fucking memes
Neither of you idiots has ever been hungry.
And you're just an idiot in general.
Religion is incompatible with revolution. It's just another means of suppressing the masses.
steal all the fruits of your labor
If you have a business then it's you stealing the fruits of their labor.
theology of liberation you fucking 'socialism means kill religion'.
But yeah, I support NO organised faith.
If religion can be used to unify proles under socialism, I'd be all for it. But modern Christianity is a perversion of its former self, communism lately ignores what it says in the Bible about the rich and about helping the poor, especially with that "reward" shit they have now (forget the name).
The amount of effort it would take to declasscuck the church is too much at this point. Burn it to the ground
There were some cintemporaries of Marx that moved to Texas to start ye olde hippy commune and they imnvited Jesus to the orgies. True story, I might be a little fuzzy on the details' but they were called La Reunion, and are the insiration for naming of Reunion Arena, Reunion Tower' etc in Dallas. (C.W.?) Post (of the Post Toasties fame) tried a similar thing briefly on the east side of Fort Worth, but this is after he'd gone mad and checked himself into the sanitrium a couple of times. (Fun fact' one of those looney bins was run by Kellog, from whom Post took the idea for making shitty cereal)
But yeah' christian socialism died off in the late 1800s when the US made illegal being that many kinds of stupid at once.
I was just pointing out that it's better to take political action than self-segregate into some intentional community. Political action gave us food stamps.
especially the corrupted American Christianity. It was always been a bastardized version of what the character of Jesus really meant actually.
There's the ELN in Colombia, who are notably known for not engaging in the drug trade for finance until recently, before they mostly relied on extorting passing drug trafficers and holding hostages unlike the FARC who they've had a sorta contentious relationship with. They've been been going through some hard times though, with the FARC signing a peace deal with the government to become a legitimate party and leaving the ELN as one of the few remaining revolutionary forces which is why they've had to branch out to the drug trade the FARC left to survive.
There are indeed verses in the bible directing christians to help those in need. With restrictions not from cradle to grave. There are multiple verses and parables of Jesus to discredit the very ideas of socialised facets of the communists and fascist ideologies.